59% of Palestinians support continuation of terror after state is created

[drdon326]

full title does not fit:

Poll: 59% of Palestinians support continuation of terror after state is created
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1066799672944

Fifty-nine percent of Palestinians believe that Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad should continue their armed struggle against Israel even if Israel leaves all of the West Bank and Gaza, including East Jerusalem, and a Palestinian state is created, a new survey shows.

Similarly, 80 percent of Palestinians say that, under those circumstances, the Palestinians should not give up the "right of return."

The poll of Palestinians, Israeli Jews, and Israeli Arabs was released in Washington on Wednesday by Itamar Marcus, founder of Palestinian Media Watch and written by pollster Frank Luntz. It was conducted by two polling firms, the Public Opinion Research of Israel and The Palestinian Center for Public Opinion.

The poll also examined Israeli and Palestinian attitudes towards the US and towards terrorism.

Nintey-six percent of Israeli Jews say the people who piloted the planes on September 11 were terrorists, while 37 percent of Palestinians share that view.

Slightly more than one in four - 26 percent - of Palestinians believe Israelis planned the 9-11 attacks.

.................................................................

So even after a palestinian state is created.....

60% say continue terrorism.

[Maple]

And what did you expect

a bunch of people living in refugee camps for half a century, and attacked on a daily basis in the present to say at this point?

We'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya?

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. What do you expect?

Why then should Israel ever talk peace if there is no support for it among the Palestinians?

[Maple]

12. There is support

but so far...nothing TO support.

Once Palestinians have a viable nation, they'll be much too busy installing water, electricity, sewerage, roads...plus decent housing, businesses and so on to be worrying about Israelis. Trouble makers will be dealt with by police same as anywhere else.

People tend not to wreck what they have...but at the moment, they don't have anything.

You think half a century of wanting something is going to change in an instant because some pollster asks a question? Many people have never known anything other than the refugee camps their entire lives.

So far, as I said, they have nothing to support..other than attacking Israel. They have nothing to lose by doing so either.

They need a stake in the proceedings.

[bluesoul]

13. Bingo!

Excellent point Maple if my say so! ;)

[The Magistrate]

19. Well Said Indeed, Ms. Maple

People must have something to lose, and to do, if they are to be expected to put any premium on peace and stability.

To my view, this is the greatest benefit to a cash liquidation of claims for lost properties and livelihoods being the chief means of satisfying the "right of return" for the heirs of those who fled in '48, and the few survors remaining as well. Such a buy-out would immediately create a propertied class, where none exists now, and this would have a great incentive toward peace, as the surest safe-guard of their new-found capital. In my more impish moments, it occurs to me that the form of compensation should be bonds on the state of Israel, as this would give that class a genuine vested interest in the continuance of that state, lest their interest payments cease, and principle dissappear.

[Lithos]

48. Very good point

And you are correct that people will protect something when they feel they have a tangible stake in it.

L-

[forgethell]

49. On the other hand,

the only thing we have to judge by is the words that fall out of their mouths. Not encouraging for the prospects of peace.

[Gimel]

53. So they support terror

It's not the natural inclination of human being to be aggressive and blood thirsty. People in India have lived in abject poverty for centuries, and not shown such charateristcs. It is the mentors of the population, those who dish out charity on one had and terrorism on the other that are controlling the minds of these people, and thus their responses. Get rid or Arafat, and eliminate Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP and the others. Then there'll be a chance for peace. Then economic development will begin.

[forgethell]

56. Actually,

I beleive if you look at history, it IS human nature to be aggrressive and blood-thirsty, if they can get away with it. Look at very young children for example. that's why it is important to raise people to be respectful of others lives and property and religion. The Palestinians are failing in this regard, or so I believe.

[Resistance]

1. So?

Democrats support the bombings on Palestinian civilians, which is terrorism.

[edzontar]

52. Not THIS Democrat!!!

nt

[Gimel]

54. Only in the minds

of those who refuse to keep a balanced view of the matter. Even Dean supports Israel's military strikes.

[bluesoul]

55. Balanced?

That's not balanced. That's one sided...

[el_gato]

2. terror is a loaded word used for semantic warfare

In this case the IDF is a terrorist organization as well.

Either drop the rhetoric or use it uniformly.

[The Magistrate]

3. A Poll By Luntz Is Always Suspect, Sir

This one in particular, as he is operating rather beyond his native element, and in a foreign tongue to boot.

Even if there were substantial support expresed today for this proposition, it does not indicate much about what actual feelings would be, should there be a state, and adequate compensation payed for lost proprty and livelihoods. People are not really very good at predicting what they will do in advance of changed circumstances, especially gratifying ones.

[papau]

4. True - but it makes the wall seem logical until there is a political solut

Their media has to move to a we want peace mode - which means give up right of return - and then sell it to the population.

Until then, a wall is better than no wall - IMHO.

:-)

[bluesoul]

5. Why?

Why should they give that up? It is a right written in international law and backed by UN conventions...

[Sesquipedalian]

7. depends on the wall

That thing they are building isn't a wall, it's a prison. If it had a security purpose they wouldn't have built it with Palestinians on the wrong side of it. It's a laughable pretext once you look at it to move the Palestinian population into seperate ghettos.

Palestinian right of return is not an issue that will go away and people don't seem to understand that. Most Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have family in various refugee camps outside the West Bank and Gaza and acheiving a settlement without them would be considered selfish.

One way or another no one is going to forget about the camps and until they are offered some justice there will never be peace.

[The Magistrate]

8. Constructed Along The Green Line, Mr. Papau

Such a fortification would be wholly legitimate, and even of some real use in present circumstances.

The "right of return" is one of the weaknesses of this poll, as we cannot know how that was phrased. Both compensation and repatriation could serve as satisfying that right, after all, and while there will not ever be wholesale repatriation, the bid of compensation can be raised until the sting of that is eased considerably. Money, as the song says, changes everything.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. How would you handle Jerusalem?

Since it is unlikely Israel will give that up.

[Sesquipedalian]

11. Who cares what they want?

If it's Israel hung up on a bunch of religious nonsence over Jerusalem at least I'll never have to hear about Palestinian religious fanactics again.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. What they want matters

Since the Palestinians won't get anything unless they can find a way of also satisfying Israel.

[Sesquipedalian]

15. who is "they"?

The Israeli's can't manufacture an Apache, they can't manufacture an F-16, they can't do any of the things they do to impose their will on the Palestinians without US assistance.

If they really, really, don't like the international consensus regarding the '48 armistace line I imagine they should be given the chance to impose their will on their own and see how far they get. I imagine green line Israel would look like a dream come true compared to what would happen after a few years.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. They is Israel

And Israel has many friends in the U.S., so don't expect us to cut them off. Jerusalem is part of Israel, even if you or the Palestinians refuse to accept it. It will remain so, even if Israel has to learn how to manufacture helicopters and tank parts all on its own.

[bluesoul]

17. Jerusalem

Jerusalem is just as much part of Palestine...You'll never be able to claim it as a whole

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Already done actually

nt

[bluesoul]

26. hmm

We'll see about that..

[Resistance]

27. what're you gonna do if Israel does take all of Jerusalem?

send in a bunch of non-violent peace activists with protest signs? Israel will just bulldoze them to death, or shoot them in the head.

[Resistance]

18. Indeed Israel has friends in the U.S.

A friend is someone you can call on for the free weapons you need to murder innocent people with.

What a friend we are to Israel. I'm so proud.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. In that case

Then the Palestinians have tons of friends since their terror groups do lots of that.

[Sesquipedalian]

24. evidently not

otherwise they might be winning.

[Resistance]

29. if money from my pocket

is directly used on the instruments that Palestinian militants use to murder innocent people with, then I will have a problem.

Right now, I have a problem with purchasing the instruments that Israel is currently using in it's campaign of reckless butchery and ethnic cleansing.

[Sesquipedalian]

20. and their "jihad" for Jerusalem makes sense?

Why should anyone on the planet care about their theological claims on Jerusalem? Historical claims? Jews didn't even found Jerusalem, the name is derived from the Jebusee's even in Hebrew. Why should anyone care one whit more about this than they do on Muslim theology which considers the entire area Islamic Waqf?

[The Magistrate]

21. Jerusalem Is Indeed A Vexed Question, Mr. Muddle

The terms specified in the recent "Geneva Agreement" that Mr. Priv has put up for us nearby struck me as a reasonable formulation, and evidently impressed the parties to those private discussions as well. If my recollection serves me well, these envisioned Israeli sovereignty at the Wailing Wall, Arab Palestinian sovereignty at the Noble Sanctuary, free passage for visitors to the various shrines, joint administration of the Old City compound, along with its demilitarization, and a capital of Arab Palestine located in what are actually the suburbs of the city, but can readily enough be viewed as "Jerusalem" on a letterhead. If you have not reviewed the terms of this private negotiation yet, my friend, please accept my recommendation and take the time to do so, as insurance my possible errors in discribing this portion, if for no other reason.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. I have

but lacking the maps and adenda, some of it was very vague. Too vague to know what was really going on.

[The Magistrate]

28. The Jerusalem Section Seemed Clear Enough, Sir

Larger questions of precise border deliniation, and some aspects of force composition for the Arab Palestinian state, it is indeed difficult to comment on without those items you mentioned. The paragraphs on permanent residence of refugees also struck me as damned opaque, probably deliberately so: when course one is contingent on schedule b to be drawn up by party x in light of party y and section z, it is fair to imagine something or other is being got up to in the interstices....

[tinnypriv]

35. Here is a map

I believe this is from the 15th October Yediot Aharonot (that issue reserved several pages to the accords, including a new poll).

Source (two additional maps): http://www.mideastweb.org/swissaccords.htm

[Darranar]

36. That is a nice arrangement...

one that I can wholeheartedly support.

[tinnypriv]

38. I should note

The third map on that page is actually contradictory to the text. See my post on this in the Geneva Accord thread.

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. If that's the map

It seems it is almost all under Palestinian control. No way.

[Darranar]

43. How much do you know about the Old City?

The majority of sites holy to Jews are in the jewish Quarter, as are the majority of Jews in the city. An interntaional force will monitor everything so that sites will not be desecrated or looted by either side.

I don't see anything wrong with the arrangement.

[The Magistrate]

44. The Old City, Sir

Is a very small portion of Jerusalem, and even that is greatly expanded in size from the time of the Romans.

[Muddleoftheroad]

45. And do you honestly expect that to fly?

with the Israeli people?

[Darranar]

46. Yes...

I do. This isn't that much of a concession.

What right have the Israelis to ALL of Jerusalem? Reemmber that access will be granted to everyone.

[Muddleoftheroad]

50. Access is fine

But I don't see them giving it up.

[Darranar]

51. I do.

n/t

[The Magistrate]

57. Well, Sir

It is rather a devil's definition of compromise that it is wholly satisfactory to neither party.

It would seem to me wise for the people of Israel to acquiesce to this, in preference to a continuation of the present situation.

[tinnypriv]

47. 4 in 10 already do

[tinnypriv]

37. Israel manufactures its own tanks

Try to keep up with current affairs, there's a good chap.

[Classical_Liberal]

41. According to Clinton they should give it up

.

[wakfs]

6. Once they get their own country...

Attacks on Israel will no longer be "terrorist" attacks or be labeled an "intifada." They will be hostile acts from another country, prompting all-out war.

Quite unfortunate, but not surprising.

[Darranar]

30. Polls are often innacurate...

and looking at the person who released it, this one was very likely biased...

[drdon326]

31. Polls are often innacurate....

especially when you dont like the results.

[Darranar]

32. ?

I have a deep mistrust of all polls. There are dozens of factors that could affect a poll, some of them intentional, some of them not.

Since this one was released by a clealry based group, my trust of it has slashed.

[drdon326]

33. Uhhhhhh......

Are you calling The Palestinian Center for Public Opinion a biased
group??

tread lightly..

[Darranar]

34. No, I'm calling...

the founder of Palestinian Media Watch biased. Read the article you posted.

[Classical_Liberal]

39. I don't believe jpost

They support retaliation against the relatives of suicide bombers, so why would anyone view them as credible?

[Resistance]

40. so do most Democrats

[Classical_Liberal]

58. They fiddle while Rome burns

There is not doubt about that. That was why it was important to defend McKinney.