IDF calling Gaza civilians to warn them of imminent bombings

[oberliner]

The Israel Defense Forces has unveiled a new tactic meant to reduce civilian casualties, calling houses before they are to be targeted in order to give inhabitants time to flee the attack.

Palestinians reported that in some cases, the caller leaves a message on their voice mail warning that the IDF will bomb any house where weapons are rockets are found and the owners of the houses will be the ones to suffer the consequences.

The IDF has also used a sound bomb to warn civilians before striking homes.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052260.html

[tekisui]

1. How courteous.

"Hi, this is the IDF. We are about to blow you to pieces. Thank you. have a nice day."

[dipsydoodle]

2. Give a whole new meaning to the term

"You're about to get fucked"x(

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. Whew! Now Israelis don't have to feel guilty about their country bombing the shit out of women and

children.

One problem though: Since they are locked up in an open-air prison (better, Oberliner?) where are they supposed to go????????????

[madrchsod]

5. where will they go?.....

to a bombed out building because they know the idf won`t waste another us made bomb on rubble.

[oberliner]

9. The vast majority of the casualties have been adult men

Among the total dead — between 320 and 390, according to the United Nations — Palestinian medical officials say that 38 were children and 25 were women.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/world/middleeast/01gaza.html?hp

The people whom the Israelis warn can go to one of the thousands of houses that Israel is not bombing. Or apparently, as the article mentions, some go on the roof of the house.

Surely you do not believe that Israel is bombing every single house in Gaza.

The facts of the situation are bad enough without embellishment.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. Penis? No problemo! I can't believe you defend this bloodbath.

If there was even one Israeli kid injured like Palestinians kids have been, the MSM would be awash with images, hospital visits etc.

Too many HUMAN BEINGS have been killed and injured.

I'm less inclined to assign value than you are.

[oberliner]

13. You were the one who left out adult men in your post

You only mentioned women and children in the post I responded to.

And I am not defending anything - I oppose this attack.

And Israeli kids have been injured and killed by Qassam rockets and there was no such coverage in the MSM like what you are describing.

The MSM is currently awash with images of what is going on in Gaza and especially of the suffering of the children there - Israeli media included.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. I left out men because i know there is little regret in Israel for the killing of Palestinian men.

The polls are quite clear about that.

My point is that the goal of idiotic charades such as texting people is so that Israelis can further diminish their guilt.

Isn't that they point? We warned 'em!

[Sezu]

36. This is worded badly. You imply the goal is

to kill women and children. Is that what you really believe?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

53. Clearly, there is little guilt over the death of any men. * If people are warned, there needn't

be guilt over the deaths of women or children -- they were warned after all!

*According to polls in Israel, 85% are hunky dorey with Operation Massacre Gaza or whatever the cutesy name is.

[oberliner]

56. Smaller than the percentage of Americans who supported the invasion of Afghanistan

How many thousands of civilian casualties have there been in that conflict?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

58. Equally brutal and pointless. Will we ever learn?

I don't recall days up days of aerial bombardment of civilian population though.

[oberliner]

59. You don't recall aerial bombardment of civilian population?

Did you not have satellite tv back then?

Here's a BBC article from 5 days after the bombing campaign began:

Fear and defiance inside Afghanistan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1596285.stm

If you want more details on the thousands of Afghani civlians who were killed in the bombings, check this site:

A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan: A Comprehensive Accounting

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mwherold/dossier

[ProgressiveMuslim]

60. I don't recall days on end aerial bombardment. Does that make it OK to do in Gaza?

[oberliner]

61. I think your recollection is faulty

There were days of aerial bombardment. Certainly for more than the number of days that Israel has been bombing Gaza.

Not saying anything makes anything else ok - I just dispute your recollection.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

63. Could well be faulty. nt

[shira]

62. you realize

the IAF could wipe out several thousands within just 2-3 minutes if that's what they wished to do? So why haven't they done so already if "aerial bombardment" of civilian population was their goal?

[Capt_Nemo]

4. As Oscar Wilde would say, this is life imitating art

Monty Python, more precisely:
(look at 0:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb1WmP8PF6s

[bobd0]

6. So exactly what are Palestinians who receive these calls supposed to do?

Maybe they can all cross the border to Israel? Egypt? Oh, the borders are closed. Well, I suppose the calls should just say, "Time to say your prayers and kiss your wives and children goodbye."

[cali]

7. theatre of the absurd.

[madrchsod]

8. well it`s good to know the telephone lines are`t down in gaza

shit they have better service than a lot of places in the usa...

[Duckhunter935]

10. Well

I guess the Israelis can not do anything that attempts to help save lives. No they are not flattening every house in Gaza. No they are not targeting every building. They are giving a resident time to leave the area and you people bitch about that. Does hamas give the Israelis warning for it rockets or morters? That nice picture that you showed was of the Hamas leader that sent his own son to be with suicide bombers. Was he too much of a coward to do it himself. He was also warned he was a target and still surrounded himself with wifes and kids. Must have really loved them. At least Israel is trying something to limit collateral casualties. And I really think that Egypt could do a little more to help out fellow muslims

[bemildred]

12. "You can run, but can't hide." nt

[oberliner]

14. Do you think any lives were saved as a result of this?

Do you think any of the people who received these warnings were able to go to a different house that was not bombed?

[bemildred]

15. Bombing never saves lives. nt

[Duckhunter935]

18. Just sit there and take it.

Over 2000 rockets fired at Israel since start of 2007

Tel Aviv/Gaza - Palestinian militants have fired over 2000 rockets into Israel from the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the year, an Israeli spokeswoman said Tuesday.

MORE:http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1378613.php/Over_2000_rockets_fired_at_Israel_since_start_of_2007__Roundup_

[bemildred]

20. So, is that saving any lives? nt

[oberliner]

21. Bombing often saves lives actually

Just not the lives of the people being bombed.

But that was not my question.

I am wondering if you think the phone calls allowed any people to avoid being killed.

[azurnoir]

25. Pravda would have loved you n/t

[oberliner]

33. Pravda: Israel prepares to wipe Gaza Strip off Earth’s face

http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/29-12-2008/106877-israel_gaza-0

I think they'd like you a lot better than me!

[azurnoir]

39. No they would not

I meant your propaganda and spin abilities as in

Bombing often saves lives actually

Just not the lives of the people being bombed.

Nice try though albeit I am nearly as good .

[oberliner]

41. They share your view of the current situation

Certainly you will have no fear of finding any "Pro Israel popaganda" on Pravda.

I am sure you would find them much more preferable to the New York Times.

My comment about bombing saving lives is neither spin nor propaganda - many people have argued that the atomic bombing in Japan saved American lives, for example. Doesn't necessarily justify the bombing, of course.

[azurnoir]

47. My comment had nothing to do with Pro or Anti anything

and your comment previous to this was a bit extreme. Your comment on bombing was spin how ever your Abomb analogy has been used by those trying to justify its use.

[oberliner]

48. You wrote that Pravda would've loved me

I assert that they would like you better.

As evidence I provided an article from Pravda's website.

The way they are reporting on the conflict seems right up your alley.

Personally, I'll stick with the NY Times.

[azurnoir]

50. And as I said Oberliner my comment had nothing to do with your

position on this subject but with your ability at spin, I do not do spin well and I find Pravda's current headline a bit overstated

[oberliner]

51. I try not to engage in spin

I certainly don't think that I take the approach found in Pravda either today or in the past.

I try to present information, ask questions, and offer my opinions.

[bemildred]

28. I don't know.

It could be a ruse to get them out in the open, eh? And then when you bomb it after they don't come out, you can say you tried to get them out.

It's easy to make this sort of stuff up, you know. Speculation about future good does not relieve you of the burden of present evil.

[oberliner]

31. Without speculation where would the I/P forum be?

All we can do here is present information, ask questions, and share our opinions.

If you don't want to answer the question, that is certainly your prerogative.

If someone is going to bomb my house, I'd rather they called me first than not.

Obviously, I'd rather they not bomb my house at all.

[bemildred]

34. I did answer the question. You did not hear. nt

[oberliner]

35. You're right - sorry about that

I'll see if I can find evidence of anyone who left their home as a result of the warning and was not killed - then we won't have to speculate.

[bemildred]

38. I'm sure their is at least one case, I'll stipulate that. nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Disagree, any number of WWII examples

[The Magistrate]

44. In This Particular Instance, Sir, The 'Bombing Saves Lives' Case Is a Hard One To Make Stick

It is possible to argue that a few Israeli lives may be saved, but when this is done at rates of a hundred to one, even if most of the hundred are combatants, the thing takes on a certain odor. A calculus which suggests a person of 'society A' is worth a hundred persons of 'society b' is an uncomfortable thing to contemplate, and many will rebel against it, and with something right at the core of that rebellion.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. I think it might, here is how it might work...

Hamas needs to go. It had dropped in the polls, was refusing to support new elections, and was killing their "enemies" in Gaza.

If the Israeli air strikes destabilize Hamas to the point where the PA can step in and resume control of Gaza, the number of lives lost may well be less than if open street fighting broke out between Hamas and Fatah. THere is also the issue that Hamas was liquidating and imprisoning anyone they saw as an enemy.

Calculations in human lives have a macabre feel to them. But sometimes it has value.

[The Magistrate]

46. A Change In Who is Top Dog There, Sir

Will be a bloody business regardless, since the new chiefs will kill their old rivals in quantity from the seats of power they just obtained. If fewer are killed in clashes attendant on the take-over, there will just be more names still carried on the death-lists given the execution squads in the aftermath.

[daleo]

55. Well put, Magistrate

The disproportion in casualties is unsettling, regardless of the politics involved. I found the disproportion in deaths during the 1991 Gulf War troubling too, even though it was in "our" favour.

[shira]

57. so what should Israel do in response?

If they don't take out Hamas, and only kill/arrest a dozen or so at a time, what does that solve? The rockets are flying - what better options exist for Israel to immediately halt such an assault?

[Duckhunter935]

16. Don't know, kind of hard to answer that as you know

Can you prove any people were killed after been given warnings to leave the area?

[Joanne98]

17. If they're bombing their houses because they're terrorists, why warn them?

[oberliner]

19. The article claims that some of the houses are where the rocket launchers are located

And that the Israeli forces want to destroy those weapons.

[breakaleg]

22. My guess is, they are bombing entire apartment buildings when only one

"terrorist" lives in one apartment.

[Duckhunter935]

24. Can you prove that guess? NT

[azurnoir]

26. Can you disprove it n/t

[Duckhunter935]

27. Nope

My guess is 99% they are not doing that.

[breakaleg]

30. Do you deny they have struck apartment buildings? I'm not sure what your issue is here.

[Duckhunter935]

37. No I do not deny that

"My guess is, they are bombing entire apartment buildings when only one
"terrorist" lives in one apartment."

I just do not know the scale as you must. They may be hitting some but smart bombs are now very accurate and may destroy only a small part of a large building. I do not always agree and both sides are at fault but to have some people (not you)say that every building in gaza has been destroyed is just not the case.

[breakaleg]

40. Clearly you are on a mission, but perhaps you should read the posts before you

reply to them and then take a look at the photos of the flattened apartment buildings in Gaza before you go on.

[Duckhunter935]

42. Not on a mission

I have seen many photos, lots of destroyed buildings lots of damaged buildings, lots of buildings with no damage at all. I do not know everything but you could show a destroyed government building and label it an apartment building, I just do not know that is all I am saying. There are some people out there that think every building out there is an apartment building maybe they are but maybe they are not also.

[Howardx]

52. that is simply ridiculous

"smart bombs are now very accurate and may destroy only a small part of a large building" name the bomb that destroys ONE apartment but leaves all others unscathed.

[Duckhunter935]

23. Limit casualties

Could be to save lives but still destroy rocket and morter storage, fuel storage, computers. Some of the houses that have been hit have shown secondary explosions.

[azurnoir]

32. What is new about this tactic?

IDF has been making warning calls like this for years warning we are about to shell, warning w are about to bulldoze your house, warning ........ or is what is new s that it put into a online with international readership hasbara indeed.

[burythehatchet]

49. Add that as an appendix to the Emily Post Book on Politeness

:puke:

[hulka38]

54. It's almost human.