Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[Scurrilous]

Members of tiny community who believe Jesus was the Messiah complain of threats, harassment and police indifference. 'It is their right according to freedom of religion to maintain their religious lifestyle,' rights group says

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3558795,00.html

<snip>

"Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family. The explosion severed two toes, damaged his hearing and harmed a promising basketball career.

Police say they are still searching for the assailants. But to the Ortiz family the motive of the attackers is clear: The Ortizes are Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

Israel's tiny community of Messianic Jews, a mixed group of

The March 20 bombing was the worst incident so far. In October, a mysterious fire damaged a Jerusalem church used by Messianic Jews, and last month ultra-Orthodox Jews torched a stack of Christian holy books distributed by missionaries.

Israel's Foreign Ministry and two chief rabbis were quick to condemn the burning, but the Ortiz family says vigorous police action is needed.

"I believe that it will happen again, if not to us, then to other Messianic believers," said Ami's mother, Leah Ortiz, a 54-year-old native of South Orange, N.J."

[glowing]

1. What's the difference between a messianic jew and a christian?

[Hawkeye-X]

2. No difference. They are not Jews - they are Christians pretending to be Jews

to try to get Jews on their side.

I mock them with impunity - I'm an agnostic Jew.

Hawkeye-X

[Prophet 451]

5. As far as I can tell, ethnicity

From what I've been able to glean from Jewish friends (who really don't like these guys), a Messianic Jew is essentially a Christian of Jewish ethnicity.

Every Jewish person I've ever spoken to can't stand them and many (of the ones I've spoken to, this is purely from personal experiance) feel that the Messianic Jews, "Jews For Jesus" (which may be the same thing, I'm not clear) are in bed with the whole batshit Rapture thing which sees Israel destroyed and the vast majority of Jews massacred as part of the Second Coming. Jews tend to see Messianics as the same kind of people whom a black person might describe as an "Uncle Tom".

[iamahaingttta]

3. Messianic Jews SHOULD be persecuted...

...as well as Messianic and Fundamentalist anythings!

They shouldn't be victims of violence, however. They should be marginalized, but not attacked.

Personally, I think this should be the case with anybody of any culture who believes in any big sky daddy.

Sorry, all you nice Christians and others. I've become an Evangelical Athiest. Any adult who believes in fairy tales deserves scorn. The only way our species is going to survive is through a big dose of being rational, and real quick. Sky Daddy is making that impossible...

[Prophet 451]

6. Evangelical anythings are annoying

Since I'm a man of faith, I suppose I should show some solidarity but since my own faith (Luciferian Satanism) has a blanket prohibition on proselytising, witnessing, whatever you want to call it, I think I can get away with saying that evangelical anythings rarely convert anyone and piss off a great many more.

[iamahaingttta]

12. Fascinating...

And you are right.

[azurnoir]

4. I posted this yesterday

in the religion forum, was going to post it here but wanted information which I got, not hysteria of the sort is that all too familiar, hopefully it works better for you.

However I would love to hear the take on this from practicing Jews, what I found out yesterday was that apparently the early church lost little time in saying that "the rules" at least the more "inconveinent or painful ones dietary, circumcision did not have to be followed any more., but even in that contex it raised more questions as here in this comment

in fact, the oldest branch of Christianity, led by Jesus' brother James, had a much stricter attitude toward the Jewish law. Acts mentions circumcision, eating meat sacrificed to idols, eating blood or carrion (implying kosher practices), and ritual purification for the temple among others. Paul speaks in scathing terms of these practices as well as ridiculing things like observing a strict calendar of festivals and observances.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=176510&mesg_id=176510

[pelsar]

7. messianic jews in israel....some info..

(on a personal level i have two as friends)....there are probably over a dozen different versions of messianic jews in israel... basically they believe in both the bible and the new testament.

some are jews, some are converted jews, some remain christians......they pretty much pick and choose the parts of each religion that makes sense to them and then create a congregation that fits that particular view.

The state of israel tolerates them as it does all the other variations of religions, though because of the mix of two religions neither of the established religions (govt) really "likes them". In the regular army there is a "keep your mouth shut" about it" amongst the practitioners.

[azurnoir]

8. So can I ask qouple of questions?

Maybe I am missing something but this seems to be incorrect and if this is actually in Acts it seems to be an outright distortion.

in fact, the oldest branch of Christianity, led by Jesus' brother James, had a much stricter attitude toward the Jewish law. Acts mentions circumcision,eating meat sacrificed to idols, eating blood or carrion (implying kosher practices), and ritual purification for the temple among others.

the part I bolded left saying huh?

[eyl]

9. Maybe it should read

"forbidding eating meat sacrificed to idols or with blood"?

[azurnoir]

15. That is exactly what I thought thanks n/t

[shaayecanaan]

10. They're still around today, bub...

(the original Jewish Christians, that is) although mainly confined to India -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knanaya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Malabar_Nasrani

You have to realise, most Eastern Christian traditions bear some Jewish influence to a greater or lesser extent. After all, before Christianity, those people would have been pagan or....

[azurnoir]

16. It started as a discussion of why

Christians did not follow Jewish law, to me logically Christians would, but mixing logic and faith doesn't work.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. They sound like a pretty harmless bunch....

And like all religious folk, misguided. That poor kid. I hope whoever was responsible is caught...


You don't get religious folk doorknocking over there trying to peddle their wares? I'm so sick and tired of Mormons and other religious folk interrupting my lazy Saturday mornings by knocking on my door and refusing to go away unless I get abrupt with them and slam the door in their faces. The only time they've been of any use was when two American missionary types came calling one afternoon when I was trying to pull down a massive bunch of jasmine vines that were threatening to overgrow my pergola and I persuaded them that I *might* listen to them if they pulled it all down for me. They did. I sat and listened politely to religious mumbo jumbo, sent them on their way and felt pretty proud about my exploitation of those door to door salesmen :)

[eyl]

13. "door-to-door religious peddling" in Israel

tends to be religious people asking for donations for the establshment of a synagouge or a yeshiva or some such, not out-and-out proselytizing

[shaayecanaan]

14. To give Christianity its due...

and for all its faults, I consider it the religion with the least ties to ethnocentrism. A person of essentially any skin tone can look equally convincing as a Christian, whereas a white Muslim or white Buddhist always manages to look faintly ridiculous. To some extent Islam's emphasis on the Arabic language is to blame. I once went to a Bosnian marriage service, which like all Islamic marriages was conducted in Arabic, with the man in one room and the woman in another. Ironically that I, one of only two non-Muslims in the room, was the only one who even faintly understood what was being said.

I suppose the flipside of a religion that welcomes all comers is the fact that they can be over-eager in their attempts to recruit. Still, there are worse things.

I don't believe in any religion anymore. Coming from a place with over 17 different religious sects, it was easier to believe that they were all bollocks, rather than all bollocks bar one. Still, I dont think any other religions come close to evoking the sense of pathos you sense when you see that poor bloke nailed to a piece of timber. Which I suppose is why its still doing brisk business in the world today, I suppose.

[azurnoir]

17. With Christianity

perhaps it is the "forgiveness" factor, one could be a "child axe murderer" or something equally heinous and as long as you were "saved" even in the last 10 seconds of life it was all good.

I don't think that exists in Islam or Judaism, at least to that degree.

As far as Arabic and Islam goes I have heard an explanation from a Kurdish friend as to why Allah chose Arabic for the Koran, it came down to who most "needed" to be able to read it.

[azurnoir]

18. Never thought of doing that

I usually just bring the dog with me, as she barks and growls "so sorry I just don't know whats gotten into her" and I mention the latch on the screen door is "broken", they leave quickly.