Concealed Carry process seems to be going smoothly

[FatSlob]

A news story in Ohio:

http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/052604/ccw.html

And a related story:

http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/news/stories/20040525/localnews/499819.html

Good for Ohio. Now if the remaining Authoritarian states could end their rectal-cranial inversion and move to shall-issue ccw.

The list of inverted states is:
California
Nebraska
Kansas
Illinois
Iowa
Wisconsin
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
New York
New Jersey
Delaware
Maryland

All other states are pretty much OK!

[Trajan]

1. Hey ...

They can always conceal it in thier colon ....

Just a thought ....

[slackmaster]

2. Just a thought?

Well, at least we know where Trajan's head is.

:eyes:

[Trajan]

4. Out here lookin at you guys ...

Er .... why are you here again ? ...

[FatSlob]

5. Huh?

Please, tell us what you mean.

[MrBenchley]

6. As you can see....

clearly they're here to pimp for GOP legislative priorities...

[MrBenchley]

3. No room...

their heads are wedged up there too firmly....

[FeebMaster]

7. There's a long way to go before all the states

are like Vermont and Alaska. New Hampshire almost got added to the list this year, but it didn't work out as I understand it. Colorado had a bill to drop the permit requirement for carry as well. I never heard how that one turned out, but I assume it didn't pass.

[FatSlob]

8. I looked at the numbers again...

38 States are shall issue. Which states will never go the freedom route? I'm thinking New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Illinois.

[Trajan]

9. damned liberals ....

Let's kill'm ....

[MrBenchley]

10. They got some damn nerve standing up to the gun lobby

don't they?

[Romulus]

11. nice playmates you got there

[CO Liberal]

12. Hey, Bench! Was That Picture Taken....

...at some gun dealer's "Back To School" sale?

:-)

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

18. LOL!!

Here's another...

[Fescue4u]

21. Glad to see you made it to a gun show Benchy

But I have to say, I thought you were a bit older. Nonethless, your vanity T-shirt is right on!

[MrBenchley]

22. Not me...that's the sort of shitheel that clogs the aisles

at those klaverns...

"vanity T-shirt"
Sums up the gun nuts to a "t", doesn't it....

[FatSlob]

13. It has nothing to do with liberalism.

It has everything to do with authoritarianism.

[MrBenchley]

15. Who the fuck are you trying to kid, fat slob...

It has everything to do with liberalism...unless you're trying to pretend that skulking from place to place clutching a popgun in your pants is some sort of liberal ideal.

[mosin]

16. Mistake in the Mt. Vernon News article

In addition, while the handgun must be in plain sight while driving, if one enters a store it must be concealed. Somewhere between leaving the vehicle and the entering the store, therefore, the gun must be concealed, which could conceivably lead to an awkward situation.

This paragraph is inaccurate. It is completely legal in Ohio to openly carry a firearm, so there is no awkward moment where one is breaking the law getting into or out of the car. You can openly carry everywhere if you want.

[MrBenchley]

17. Tee hee hee....

So why the push to conceal? After all, lugging your popgun around is surely more of a deterrance to crime than hiding it....

Of course, I'm sure nobody would think anyone lugging a popgun around in plain sight was any sort of public menace, or a dangerous loony, or anything like that (snicker).

[Romulus]

19. sure, benchy

as soon as you start the bandwagon to requireoff-duty LEO's to carry their "popguns" openly, I'll join you.

<snicker>

[MrBenchley]

20. Gee, rom...

You say that like I would want you to join me....frankly, I'm just as happy you keep your distance.

[CO Liberal]

23. The Problem I Have With Concealed Carry Is Very Simple

If after thousands and thousands of people get those permits and start packing heat 24/7, if a problem develops how do you take back those permits????

IMHO, CCW is a HUGE Pandora's Box.

[MrSandman]

24. Seventeen years...

Since FL, 15 since WV, how long is it going to take for the problems?

[CO Liberal]

27. As a Percentage Of The Total Population.....

...how many people have CCW permits? A relatively small number, right??

But what would happen if, say, 40 or 50 percent of the general public were packing heat??

:shrug:

[MrSandman]

28. There appears to be a point that it levels off...

In MI, the number of permits issued annually the first year was halved by the second year. I did not find the third year available yet.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-77621--,00.html

Very few new permits are issued in my county, they post them in the paper. Even those, some are renewals.

TX has numbers on their webpage, if you want to check them out.

[slackmaster]

33. Link to the Texas DPS CHL home page

Lots of statistics about who gets permits, revocations, convictions of permit holders, etc.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlsindex.htm

Last time I checked it has levelled off around 1% of the population statewide. I recently read that in Utah, which has lower crime rates than Texas, it's around 2%.

[Township75]

25. Permits expire...

typically after 5 years.

Furthermore, I imagine many states could rebuke CCW laws so they no CCW is valid.

[Hrumph]

29. We've been doing so for years, now.

When do you expect those problems to start?

[slackmaster]

32. The solution is just as simple

Any state legislature could invoke an emergency measure to revoke all existing permits literally overnight, if there's anyone left alive by then.

:tinfoilhat:

[mosin]

35. Indiana

I believe Indiana has issued concealed carry licenses for around 70 years. They issue to anyone 18 or over who passes a background check and pays a small fee. No state-mandated training.

I'll let you know when they have any problems with their law.

The funny thing is that an 18-year-old in Indiana can get a concealed carry license, but can't buy a handgun or handgun ammunition from a dealer -- under federal law. The 18-year-old can receive a handgun as a gift or exploit the "gun show loophole."

[FatSlob]

39. Hundreds of thousands already have them.

Indiana has had it for nearly 80 years. In less than two months, FIFTEEN to TWENTY THOUSAND people have gotten them in Ohio. There haven't been problems yet. Quick, what do all these events have in common?

Columbine, Watson Trucking, NYC Council shooting, The Kentucky School Shootings, any other school shooting?

They all occurred in places where CCW is illegal. The criminals know that armed citizens are a deterrent, why don't you?

[Township75]

26. That is a pretty small list of states...

apparently, someone here must think its much larger because all he ever talks about is how the vast majority of Americans are against CCW.

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, town....

Somebody here must think that's meaningful.....or representative of anything but how scummy the Republicans and the gun lobby are.

[slackmaster]

31. If you add up CA + NY + NJ + MD + MA

You have a pretty sizeable percentage of the population of the USA. I'm not going to take the time to run the numbers, but I guesstimate the result would end up in the low to mid 40s, percentage wise.

I think it shows how polarized the nation is regarding the right to carry.

Of course some of the more conspiracy-oriented among us will blame the Evil Gun Industry(TM) and the amazingly powerful NRA for strong-arming state legislatures into going against the will of the people. In fact their influence is so pervasive it's prevented that vast silent majority of anti-CCW voters from throwing out the mindless robots their own legislators have become.

:tinfoilhat:

[MrSandman]

34. WV can thank Morton Grove, IL...

In reaction to the Morton Grove ban, the State passed a Constitutional amendment to prevent any gun bans in WV(LOL). It was later interpreted by the State Supreme Court to allow CCW, so the legislature passed the CHL law to make money.

[mosin]

36. Iowa

I justed noticed that the NRA -- gasp! -- has redone their "Right-to-Carry" Map. They did have 3 categories. They have now split those out into 5 more specific categories. The most interesting thing is that they moved Iowa from the bad "right-restricted" group into the new discretionary, but reasonable category. Connecticut and Alabama were previously labeled as "shall-issue" but really have discretionary statutes that are administered fairly. They are now in that category as well.

For those who haven't been paying close attention :), three of the four no-permit states have come very close to passing shall-issue laws in the last 12 months. Two -- Kansas and Wisconssin -- fell to gubernatorial vetoes. Nebraska has been held up by a filibuster. Illinois is a hopeless case.

[slackmaster]

37. I'd call California hopeless for the foreseeable future

The problem here is inconsistency from place to place. In some of the rural counties it might as well be shall-issue because the chief LEOs (typically Sheriffs) will rubber-stamp applications for anyone they have met and doesn't have a criminal record. In other rural counties it's an Old Boy system, and permits are handed out as political favors by the elected Sheriffs.

In large urban areas like Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay area, chiefs of police (also elected officials) pander to wealthy, connected people. Those who are inclined to donate large sums of money or whose names are widely recognized, e.g. famous actors, can get permits much more easily than regular folks.

I live in San Diego. Here people who have a clearly demonstrable need for self-protection can get a permit fairly easily. These include people who need them for their work, those who regularly carry large amounts of money or valuable objects, and victims of stalkers.

A few people are arguing for a shall-issue system based on fairness or equal protection. Jim March, who has posted here on DU, is a Libertarian fighting for equal CCW rights for all Californians. Here's his Web site:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/

(I'm not endorsing Jim or the Libertarian Party here, just providing information relevant to the thread.)

[mosin]

38. equal protection

The problem here is inconsistency from place to place.

A few people are arguing for a shall-issue system based on fairness or equal protection. Jim March, who has posted here on DU, is a Libertarian fighting for equal CCW rights for all Californians.

If there is going to be a permit system, I think equal protection is one of the best arguments for a shall-issue permit system. The reality of human nature means that to be fair a legal system must have objective criteria. Allowing dozens or hundreds of officials to interpret a subjective standard inevitably results in favoritism and corruption

I'm surprised that the NRA has given its "blessing" to Iowa. My impression is that while Iowa is better than California, there are still counties in Iowa where it's hard to get a license unless you have connections.

[slackmaster]

41. If you live in an urban or suburban area, Iowa seems like a strange place

A very large chunk of the population still works in agriculture and lives in rural areas. My mom recently went back to the small Iowa town where she grew up, for her 50th high school class reunion. She said it was like going into a time warp. She could walk down the street and have people pop out of the same houses they lived in all their lives, recognize her, and pick up on the last conversation they'd had decades earlier. Small businesses were being operated by the children or grandchildren of the ones who ran them 50 years ago. Everyone was friendly, everyone was still a Republican, and crime was still almost unheard-of. The biggest change was the state mental hospital had closed and become some other kind of institution.

[TX-RAT]

40. Hey Slack

Have you ever been to Yuma AZ for the dove hunting. My brother lives San Diego and we meet every September in Yuma to hunt. Seems like every body I meet there is from San Diego.

[slackmaster]

42. I've never been hunting

Not that I disapprove of it, just never got interested enough to do it.

Some of the BLM areas in Imperial County, CA offer excellent birding opportunities too.

[TX-RAT]

43. Hunted in Calif once.

Took a nice black-tail on Camp Pendleton. Pretty country and some great bass fishing in your area.

[slackmaster]

44. Camp Pendleton is the only thing keeping San Angeles from forming

In the movie Demolition Man the urban areas of San Diego, Orange County, Los Angeles, all the way up to Santa Barbara had merged into one megalopolis. Bless the United States Marine Corps from preventing that from happening.

The Marines used to let bicyclists ride through Pendleton. The ride from Oceanside to San Onofre State Beach is about 15 miles, mostly through unspoiled (except for a few eucalyptus trees) California coastal hills and canyons. Rapid suburban development has destroyed most of Orange County and large pieces of San Diego County during my own lifetime.

I hope the Marines hold on to Camp Pendleton for a loooooong time.