Pro-gun liberal Democrats, post here!

[OpSomBlood]

Let me lay out my beliefs, you guys can chime in and decide if I am a liberal or not.

- I am philosphically opposed to abortion as a primary form of birth control, but I also acknowledge that there is no way to regulate abortion for special cases only. Therefore, I feel that all abortion should be safe and legal.

- I believe that the Second Amendment refers to individual rights, just like the rest of the Bill of Rights. I believe that criminals and the mentally ill have no right to own guns, and that reasonable steps should be taken to ensure that they don't get them through legal means.

- I am a heterosexual but feel that gays should have full marriage rights and benefits.

- I think the "Drug War" has been a monumental waste of lives and money. I think that non-violent drug offenders should be released from prison and sent to rehab, which is cheaper and more effective. I believe that there is no legitimate reason for marijuana to be illegal.

- I feel that health care is a right, not a privilege. We should have single-payer medical coverage for all taxpayers in this country. The current state of medicine in the U.S. is an utter disgrace, and it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be more than willing to pay higher taxes for guaranteed comprehensive coverage and my choice of doctors.

- I think that balanced state and federal budgets are absolutely essential in order to maintain our status as the "world's lone superpower." Bush's fiscal insanity is doing more to ruin this country than the Iraq war.

- Speaking of war, I do not believe in pre-emptive warfare. War should be an absolute last resort when absolutely all other avenues are exhausted.

There are my stances on the "big" political issues of our day. Am I a liberal? Please tell me your thoughts, and also holler if you consider yourself a pro-gun Democrat.

[Book Lover]

1. I like guns so much

I don't think that criminals, as a class should de facto be forever proscribed from owning them.

As for me, I like tools and machines, and guns fall into that category.

As for you, ever since the forever thread on "What is Punk Rock" I have decided I am not qualified to discuss any else's qualifications for anything. Are you voting for Kerry? Good enough for me for 2004.

[billbuckhead]

13. "If We the People"don't want AlQueda to be able to buy an AK-47 at WalMart

Yes there are "soccer moms" in WestVirginia". A month ago the AWB was a winner in the electoral college in this election, but only barely. With the outlook looking like a big Kerry victory in battleground states, the AWB can be shoved up Bush's ass like a GI issue neon wand. Make the 'PuKKKes choose the NRA-GOA radicals or the surburban security moms, ONCE AND FOR ALL. Let the battle be won in Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, New Hampshire, Missouri, Arkansas, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Washington, Neveda, California, New Mexico, Tennessee, Maryland, all these states that suffer so much from wanton weapons use. Let the soccer moms win like they did on football.

"Hey, it's time to drain the swamp on K street" say Janeane Garofolo. Those alligators in the gun lobby swamp aren't really for the average gun owner, they're for the BFEE.

[OpSomBlood]

15. Please don't post factually inaccurate rhetoric in here.

I'm trying to determine if there is such a thing as a "pro-gun Democrat" and if I am a liberal.

There are countless other threads here for fearmongering.

[MrBenchley]

17. Gee, op...

I'm trying to determine if there is such a thing as a "pro-gun Democrat""
There are plenty with quotes...and sooner or later they seem to earn tombstones. Feel free to show us one...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=39aa32726ae12619c093e9ccdf8d79ab&forumid=57

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://floridashootersnetwork.com

Even funnier, step up and SHOW us YOU are one.

[billbuckhead]

18. One can be progun and against Al Queda buying AK47's at WalMart

I'm just setting the bar for being "progun" as low as possible>

[OpSomBlood]

20. Take it elsewhere.

AK-47's have never been available at Wal-Mart, or any other gun seller for that matter. Please take the fearmongering rhetoric to another thread.

[MrBenchley]

22. Gee, op,. you opened the ball and wanted to know what liberals think

and now you want to keep Bill from expressing what he thinks...

Doesn't sound very liberal to me...

[OpSomBlood]

23. You can try to divert the thread as much as you want with rhetoric.

I'm going to keep it on topic, because I think this is important. I want to know who considers themselves a pro-gun Democrat.

"AK-47's at Wal-Mart" is irrelevant to this discussion, and demonstrates the type of dishonest fearmongering the VPC and Brady are so fond of.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OpSomBlood]

34. So your position is that I can't be a Democrat if I am pro-gun.

Your opinion is duly noted.

Now stop trying to derail this thread with propaganda.

[MrBenchley]

46. No, my position is

that you can go to any gun owner forum on th web and see what "gun owning Democrats" are worth--by the way they sit with their thumbs up their butts while dittomonkeys spout ignorant right wing propaganda.

You guys make Alan Colmes look like Stokely Carmichael in his hey day.

[DoNotRefill]

68. Wait....so now we're bad people...

for NOT playing around on the Rightwing boards?

I'm used to being called names like "freeper", et cetera, because I'm pro-gun, but being badmouthed for NOT going to rightwing boards? That's certainly a novel approach, MrB...

[slackmaster]

71. Equally ridiculous and just as hypocritical

As the assertion that someone's inability to find what he considers to be pro-Democratic posts on forums that aren't intended to be used primarily as political discussions constitutes "proof" that there are no pro-gun Democrats.

:dunce:

[OpSomBlood]

72. There are no pro-gun "Vote for Bush" posts on DU.

I guess that means there are no pro-gun Republicans who are willing to stand up for their cause.

[MrBenchley]

74. There was one just a week or so ago...until it got scrubbed

because the idiot freeper couldn't restrain himself.

"slackmaster
47. Who is this "RKBA crowd" you keep referring to?
However I will concede that now that I've read it I don't see anything at all wrong with the GOP's platform."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=20403&mesg_id=20484&page=

[slackmaster]

80. Nice equivocation there, MrBenchley

Anyone with two functional brain cells could see I was referring to the clarity with which the GOP's platform plank was written as compared to the DNC's.

If you actually believed me to be a freeper troll I'm sure you would have hit the Alert button by now.

[MrBenchley]

83. Too fucking funny, slack...

"If you actually believed me to be a freeper troll I'm sure you would have hit the Alert button by now."
And lose the entertainment value?

Slackmaster (#32): "The presence of a few idiots in Nazi uniforms need not spoil a family outing."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=22105

[slackmaster]

87. Funny how you think your family outing SHOULD be ruined

By seeing a World War II re-enactment group or a rerun of Hogan's Heroes.

I must have a much thicker skin than you do.

[MrBenchley]

88. Not your skin that's so much thicker, slack....

[OpSomBlood]

94. Patented Pee-Wee Snappy Comeback Spotted!

"I know you are, but what am I?"

[MrSandman]

97. There are pro-McCain posts...n/t

[MrBenchley]

75. Suit yourself refill...

We certainly got no shortage of "enthusiasts" posting idiotic right wing crap here...

By the way, want to explain here why "blacks, jews, and women" are "professional victims"? You sure seemed eager to defend that proposition in the other thread.

[MrBenchley]

16. Exactly so...

Let's see the Repukes stand up and tell us why nutcases and criminals should be able to get assault weapons.

It's a win-win issue.

[OpSomBlood]

19. The AWB doesn't address "nutcases and criminals"...

...to the contrary, it addresses everyone else.

Again, please take the propaganda elsewhere. This thread is here for a specific reason...to determine if there are any pro-gun Democrats and to see if I am a liberal.

[MrBenchley]

21. The thread is here so you can posture and pose

but you're sure not fooling much of anyone...

Want to tell us what a piece of shit Jesse Jackson is in thsi thread?

And trying to pretend that ordinary citizens want or need assault weapons IS propaganda...

[OpSomBlood]

24. Assault weapons and Jesse Jackson have nothing to do with this thread.

Take it elsewhere.

[MrBenchley]

28. Gee, op, they got everything to do with this thread...

How many liberals announce Jesse Jackson is a piece of shit based on the lies Bill O'Really told, do you suppose?

You wanted to know what liberals thought, but when Bill told you what he thought, you wanted to shut him up immediately.

Anybody can say they're any fucking thing...the proof is in the pudding, and yours curdled a long time ago.

[DenverDem]

2. You are a functional liberal.

I'm right there with you.

I mean, if we don't have guns, how do we defend ourselves from the government?

[DoNotRefill]

69. Screw the government...

how do we defend ourselves from the armed rightwingers?

[OpSomBlood]

70. Sing Kumbaya and whip up some warm cocoa for them.

n/t

[iverglas]

96. well I give up

How DO you defend yourselves from the government / the armed right-wingers? (Take your choice; I don't care.)

Has someone actually been doing it??

(Well, some people in Iraq seem to have been doing it, f'r instance, but I haven't noticed anybody in the US lending a hand ...)

.

[number6]

3. we need guns to protect ourselves from mental cases

like Ann Coulter .... ;)

agree with most of what you say ..

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Someone asked how my husband could be

a liberal and favor gun ownership. He said he was for the Constitution, and sticks don't scare the bears away from our doorstep.

[Township75]

5. Based on these issues...

I would say you are...but I am really curious as to who will avoid posting in this thread...and since you already read this, why don't you just post :)

[billbuckhead]

8. I'm in favor of not grabbing guns so I guess I'm barely progun.

I just don't want better ones sold. I just want relatively competant non-criminals to get as small a clips and as short a barrels as is politically possible. I want the present guns laws vigorously enforced, at least as much as drunk driving. I want guns to interfere in my life as little as possible. I don't like guys in black suits walking around our airports with military style "assault" rifles. I don't like seeing some Gomer with no common sense having a handgun on his floorboard or coffee table. "Assault" rifles and "Sniper" rifles in the hands of every Gomer means the police will have military style weapons and drive around in armored cars, maybe when we bring the new armored HumVee's back from Iraq, we can press them into service in D.C., Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles and larger Southern cities.

I think practical environmentalists can get along with hunters and we need to reach out to them.

Also if gun manufacturers are going to be exempt from the rules of the present capitalist/legal system then they should have to pay for the costs of the use of this machine that raises a liberal societies costs both monetarily and in human capital so dramatically.

[beevul]

27. I have ...

a simple question.

"I think practical environmentalists can get along with hunters and we need to reach out to them."


How can you define "Sniper" rifles without alienating the hunters?

[OpSomBlood]

33. All hunters are snipers by definition.

n/t

[Arger68]

6. Pretty much summed up my beliefs verbatim!!!

[pinto]

7. I support GIN's for guns. (Gun Identification Number) as w/vehicles.

indelible VIN's have proven useful in back tracking the use of a car in a crime or the trail of its theft....

As with vehicles I support registration and licensing for gun
ownership.

I support the assault gun ban.

On your other points I would only differ on health care. Don't think paying taxes need be a prerequisite for healthcare. I support universal healthcare.

Only missing item I would mention is a living minimum wage. Federally mandated, tied to a state's cost-of-living stats.

I think reasonable gun laws, reasonable drug use laws, universal health care and a livable minimum wage would go far in buiding the America we all say we want.

Thks for the post.

I won't label you.

[Kali]

9. liberal

or not I'd say you were a sensible, thinking, rational, person. Wish there were a LOT more like us.

[MrBenchley]

10. No big whoop HERE

Let's see you guys post something like this on a gun owner forum somewhere...

[OpSomBlood]

12. It has only been 40 minutes.

We're going to find out if there is such a thing as a "pro-gun Democrat." Be patient.

[MrBenchley]

14. Jeeze, op...

There's plenty of "pro-gun Democrats" in HERE, and a lot of them earn tombstones sooner or later when they stop fooling the rest of us.

It's no big whoop HERE. Let's see you guys be Democrats on one of those gun owner cesspools that are filled with dittohead rubbish.

[MrSandman]

36. I don't swim in cess pools...

[OpSomBlood]

38. Speaking of cesspools, I'm trying to prevent this thread from becoming one

Some people persist.

I thought the thread topic was rather straightforward.

[MrSandman]

41. Sorry Ops,

I pretty much agree with you. Live and let live on the social issues.

The insane tax/expenditure policies will be the downfall of the economy of the country. Debt reaching upwards of 5% of the GDP are excessive.

I only hope that these issues don't give rise to a radical third party power broker. The current talk about a Kerry/McCain ticket shows how people are willing to blur the line between the two parties to the point that they may be perceived as standing for the same things.

We don't need Kerry to allow rumors of this ticket to continue. He should abso-freakin-lutely put this rumor to rest. I have little preference for who is chosen as VP nominee. Who votes for VP? But this cross breeding rumor is insane.

[MrSandman]

42. And the beat goes on...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1603801

[MrBenchley]

49. As Madge the Manicurist used to say....

Don't forget to wipe!

[MrSandman]

50. Thanks for keeping close to those cesspools...

I don't go for fear of being identified with the company.

[MrBenchley]

53. Too late, sandman...

But it's hilarious to see you pretend otherwise.

[MrSandman]

55. Enjoy them...n/t

[MrBenchley]

57. I'm getting a huge laugh out of our "pro-gun democrats"

and what they turn out to be...

[MrSandman]

59. Don't swim too long...

the stench might attach itself.

[MrBenchley]

60. The stench isn't on my side, sandman...

It's on YOURS...

[MrSandman]

61. I don't go there...

After awhile one would look the same

[OpSomBlood]

62. Hypocrisy smells like roses to Benchley.

I think I can see her shoulder holster peeking out!

Feinstein carries a gun sometimes when she feels threatened, even when it is illegal. But anyone else who wants to carry a gun is paranoid, because the police will protect them.

[MrBenchley]

63. Says it all, op...

Our "pro-gun democrats" are quick to post slurs against respected Democrats here, along with pictures of John Wayne Gacy and dittohead idiocy from the stentorian and "the righter"...

But not a single pro-Democrat word on a gun-wanker forum.

[OpSomBlood]

64. Dianne Feinstein is a raging hypocrite, Democrat or not.

Simply stating this fact is not a "slur."

[MrBenchley]

73. It's a slur...

And an especially lame one at that...says more about you than her.

[OpSomBlood]

76. "I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did."

"And, I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that's what I did. I was trained in firearms. I'd walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." - Dianne Feinstein, 4/27/95

At the time that Feinstein was "arming herself," it was illegal for citizens of San Francisco to carry a concealed weapon.

Calling her a hypocrite for being against concealed-carry is not a slur. She defines hypocrisy.

[MrBenchley]

79. Wow...

Wonder why there's no link to that quote?

[MrSandman]

65. And the gun controllers...

push for two Repub VP nominees. I know which of us spends more time in the cesspools.

[beevul]

11. Uncanny...

That list could be mine as well.

Add a healthy dose of separation of church and state, and that WOULD be mine.


As far as whether that makes you liberal or not, I would say so, but then what do I know...I am just a gun nut (even though I don't own an "arsenal" or even an assault weapon, or have the desire to own either)



Pro-gun Dem here. More accurately, Pro-2A Dem.

[tabasco]

25. The government can have my handguns.

I just want to keep a couple rifles. I can protect my home just fine with a Mini-30 or a shotgun. A "militia" really doesn't need handguns. I was infantry for ten years and nobody in any unit I was in carried a pistol. Only rifles. I'm in favor of strong handgun laws and strong penalties.

[MrBenchley]

29. We need folks like you to take the fight outside...

Don't let these gun owner forums become freeper outposts...

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://floridashootersnetwork.com

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=39aa32726ae12619c093e9ccdf...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

[OpSomBlood]

32. A Mini-30 is a semi-auto "assault rifle."

But being an expert on the issue, I'm sure you knew that.

[tabasco]

35. I've got one.

Semi-auto rifle. Not a handgun. I don't think it's unreasonable to own semi-auto rifles. I do think handguns are a greater threat to public safety and wouldn't care if they were totally prohibited.

[OpSomBlood]

Yes, some people feel that semi-auto rifles are a bigger threat.

While I disagree with your position on handguns, I welcome your input in this thread.

That Mini-30 is a hell of a weapon, huh? My dad had a Ruger Mini-14 that we used to shoot together. A great rifle.

[tabasco]

40. Last time I saw any statistics (which was a long time ago) ...

handguns were used much more frequently in crimes than rifles. That's why I consider them more of a problem. I also don't see the justification for handguns in any "militia" for 2nd Amendment purposes.
- The Mini-30 works fine. I go camping in bear country a lot and like it because it is compact and straps on the top of my rucksack. I've fired maybe 500 rounds with it and never had a jam.

[OpSomBlood]

44. You are absolutely right.

Statistics routinely show that handguns are used in around 85% of gun crimes, and "assault weapons" in about 3%. That said, there are many people who feel that your "assault rifle" is a bigger threat to society than a handgun.

I have a Colt M4 (AR-15 carbine), so I'm in the same boat as you. I love to shoot it and I have used it for hunting hogs.

[MrBenchley]

48. Who the fuck really cares, op...

besides a few "enthusiasts."

[el_gato]

100. if you don't care why are you responding bench?

Seems like you care alot judging from your endless fear-induced rants.

[OpSomBlood]

101. Yes, he "doesn't care" enough to post 17,000 times.

And easily 90% of those posts are juvenile attacks against pro-gun people here.

So yeah, he doesn't care what we think...and he spends most of his day here telling us so.

[MrBenchley]

103. "Boo hoo hoo!"

Gee, it's tragic for our "enthusiasts" that there's somebody here who agrees with the vast majority of Americans, most of the Democratic party, and the Democratic nominee.

And, yeah, I don't really give an onion fart about gun porn, no matter how desperately you try to spin threads away from their subject.

And it's worth noting we yet to see much in the way of pro-Democratic or liberal posts on any of the gun nut forums.

But we DO find posts like this, which tell us exactly what's peeping out from under that "gun rights" sheet...

"when did we become a nation of 'n****rs'?, or is everybody just fucked in the head?
1... every store/resturant you go into is playing 'ogga booga iggabigga i's a muddafugging niga ' type music at disgustingly loud volume...
2... the words on store names and 'advertizin' are gwine done be spelled n****r style , ie: dawgz , ho'z , yowza mofo, etc...
3... the n****s is gwine done beze in de adz fa outta dere numbaz in relation to the population as a whole ...WTF???!!!
4... people just act and carry on like gutterfilth, every other word is 'muthafucca' or beyatch , or (fill in the blank)...
5... all the clothes in the stores look like they belong on bubbles, or Mr chuckles , or clyde ...
6... give me your own examples... "

schumacker Posted: May 16 2004, 04:25 AM
N****r shoes really piss me off!
The last time I needed a new pair of tennis shoes I tried going to the mall. BIG MISTAKE. All I saw was racks and racks of fucking clown shoes!

Virtual Posted: May 16 2004, 06:24 AM
We should do one of those demonstrations along the line of the "affirmitive action bake sale."
Lets see... find a coupla white guys and have them play the bongo drum while wearing only a straw "skirt." I'm sure that'll get the ACLU on your ass quick enough. What? We're not sensitive to their culture?

BigC Posted: May 16 2004, 10:29 AM
I only shop in White stores. Sheplers,Kroger,Whataburger, Sears. I don't care how the Coons dress, But if I see one more 350 pound 5 foot tall Black female ape in a neon green spandex tube dress I'll puke. "

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8977

Remember, the founder of that website (which he hilariously called "the land of reason") once barged on here because he was outraged that anyone could think that there was anything in the least bit racist about the gun rights movement.

The trick, of course, is finding anything that isn't about the gun rights movement.

Your turn, op. You going to let that filth stand unchallenged?

Guess what I think the answer's going to be.

[OpSomBlood]

104. You're absolutely right...all gun owners are ignorant racist extremists.

I know how warm and fuzzy it makes you feel for people to tell you how right you are.

You're right, Benchley.

You're right.

Ahh.

[MrBenchley]

105. In other words...

op isn't going to say boo....

Quick, who is surprised? Me neither.

[OpSomBlood]

106. Not everyone keeps a 24-hour watch on every gun message board.

You seem to fill that position nicely.

Some of us have other things to do with our lives.

[MrBenchley]

107. Too TOO funny...

So where are those millions of "pro-gun democrats" you keep telling us are out there, op?

For that matter...you don't need a "24-hour watch," since I gave you the fucking web address.

[MrBenchley]

30. By the way...

Earlier tonight, I got challenged by one of our "pro-gun Democrats" as to why I didn't post the statement "John Kerry would be a better president than Chimpy" on this forum...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

The answer to which is, obviously, I don't own a fucking gun.

So which of our "pro-gun Democrats" is going to be brave enough to make that statement there?

[billbuckhead]

31. Instead of one of the debates, Kerry should have shooting match with Bush

A little target and skeet could do Bush in. It would be great on TV.

[Young Socialist]

39. "John Kerry would be a better president than Chimpy"

anyone will make a better president that chimpy.

OP I agree with everything on your list but the gay marriage issue.

[MrBenchley]

47. Funny

how brave "gun owning democrats" are saying that where everybody agrees with them....and how non-brave they are on gun owners forums.

Says everything anyone needs to know about our "gun owning democrats."

[slackmaster]

52. You aren't required to own a gun to post on AR15.com

Nice attempt at diversion, but NOBODY is buying it MrBenchley.

So which of our "pro-gun Democrats" is going to be brave enough to make that statement there?

I raised the challenge to you first, and here's the proof:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=57125&mesg_id=57709

[MrBenchley]

54. Gee, slack...I already know they're lying fuckwits over there

And I don't really see why I ought to pretend otherwise. Piss on such neoNazi pimps. I hope they choke on their own curdled hate.

But then I'm not the one trying to pretend that right wing gun nuts aren't trolling...just as they brag in their idiotic little klavern...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=170057

So tell us, slack, why haven't YOU already posted that "John Kerry would be a great president" thread over there? After all, you're the one trying to pretend people don't get harassed "for ideological reasons" by the "enlightened" over there...which we both know is a steaming pile of horseshit.

Next to our "pro-gun Democrats," Tammy Bruce is a ball of liberal fire.

[ScubaJeep]

56. Mr. Benchley...

I am curious why you believe that abusive language and name calling is an effective way to get your point across.

[MrBenchley]

58. Because I feel like it

It's called freedom.

So tell us, are you willing to say anything pro-Democrat to gun owners on gun owner forums? So far we got a lot of huffing and puffing from our "Democratic gun owners" here but a surprising lack of anything resembling a liberal or Democratic viewpoint over there.

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://floridashootersnetwork.com

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=39aa32726ae12619c093e9ccdf...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

Long time DUers already know that right wing loonies come over to troll for the bogus "gun rights" cause...they even bragged about it on one of their idiotic klaverns...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=170057

[slackmaster]

66. That's about the lamest excuse you've ever posted, MrBenchley

Piss on such neoNazi pimps. I hope they choke on their own curdled hate.

It's a real shame you have no insight into the irony of that statement, MrBenchley.

You don't have to "pretend" anything or misrepresent your true views. You meet the ONE basic requirment to post on AR15.com: An interest in the AR-15 rifle.

I like building and shooting AR-15 rifles.

You think AR-15 rifles should be declared "assault weapons" and banned.

Don't try to weasel out of this discussion by changing the subject to the "High Road" site.

So tell us, slack, why haven't YOU already posted that "John Kerry would be a great president" thread over there?

Because that would be dishonest. I don't think John Kerry would be a great President. I think Kerry would make a fair-to-middlin' President. I think he's intelligent and competent to do the job, and I support him because he's the only credible candidate who is not George W. Bush. I post my views on Democratic issues here because this site was founded in response to the disastrous election of 2000. I don't want to see the same thing happen to us in 2004.

[MrBenchley]

77. Well, gee, slack, ask me next

how much I value the opinion of an "enthusiast" such as yourself.

"I think Kerry would make a fair-to-middlin' President. I think he's intelligent and competent to do the job, and I support him because he's the only credible candidate who is not George W. Bush."
And you're willing to say that here...but afraid to say it over there. Speaks volume about you and your fellow "pro-gun democrats," as well as what that dittomonkey cesspool really is.

[slackmaster]

81. Wow, I have failed MrBenchley's litmust test

:nopity:

[MrBenchley]

84. If it's any consolation, you ain't the only one

Funny how none of our "pro-gun democrats" are willing to make so much as a pro-democrat peep where their fellow "enthusiasts" can hear them. That's none as in not any.

But then it's pretty obvious what's really peeping out from under that "gun rights" sheet, waving the John Wayne Gacy picture and shouting that "blacks, Jews and women" are "professional victims."

[slackmaster]

86. It must be fun living in a fantasy world

Where people who post on gun-related boards can't see the DU forums.

:freak:

...shouting that "blacks, Jews and women" are "professional victims."

Straw Man.

[MrBenchley]

89. Hell, slack, I know those fuckwits come trolling over here....

They even boasted aloud in their idiotic klaverns about what a good trick it was to spread their ditto-monkey rubbiish here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=170057

"...shouting that "blacks, Jews and women" are "professional victims.";
Straw Man."
No such thing...in fact, that was the tentpole of a repulsive bit of bigotry the bullets for brains bunch trotted out here just last week, for the fourth or fifth time, as "evidence" for your rancid creed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=57136&mesg_id=57136

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[ScubaJeep]

43. If you're not a democrat, then I am definitely not one either.

Well, I consider myself more of a libertarian (lower case l) liberal democrat. Which amounts to being very individualistic. Conservatives and liberals both consider me to be quite "insane". I consider myself a whig sometimes.

My religion says that abortion is wrong. My religion also says that same-sex marriage is wrong. However, one's religious morals are irrelevant when one considers passing a law to be followed by free people. On the same token, I see much hypocrisy with charging someone with murdering an unborn fetus, yet making it legal for the mother to do the same. I do not believe you can have it both ways.

I believe that I am the militia mentioned in the 2nd Amendment. In other words, I believe in a "militia of one", if I can borrow from the US Army. The original purpose of militia was collective defense from invaders AND CRIMINALS. In modern times, this amounts to a fundamental right to self defense. I believe that the 2nd amendment implies that the right of firearm ownership is necessary for people to protect themselves.

I think the drug war was once a waste, but today focuses its attention on those who would use drugs to take advantage of weaker people. A person who sells crack to children because he/she needs to pay off his/her dealer is not a victim. I do not see sending drug addicts to prison as a solution to the problem. However, I do see hypocrisy in allowing people to kill themselves with tobacco and alcohol, but not allow them to decide their own medicinal needs.

I feel that when it comes to a health care system, you can have 1one that is FAST, GOOD, or CHEAP. You get to pick two. As a result, we have the most readily available, best quality medical services money can pay for. While those who are without health care should be a concern to everyone, we must be careful about how much quality we give up in order to get everyone covered.

I believe that until the citizenry shifts its focus from short-term fixes to long-term fiscal responsibility, politicians will handle the purse in a way that gives them most of their possible terms in office.

I also believe that war should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. However, I believe that if you invade a country, that you have a responsibility for restoring it after peace has been established.

I feel that the death penalty serves only one purpose, and that is revenge. I believe it has no place in a just peaceful society. I believe that it does not serve as a deterrent to murderers. I believe that innocent people have been convicted of crimes. I believe in a judicial system that takes this into account.

I believe that present copyright laws in the United States and European Union exist to allow major media companies to maximize profits through the elimination of fair use rights on the consumer's part. I believe that all works of art are public domain, and that the government gives the creator a limited monopoly on the work only to encourage future works.

[OpSomBlood]

45. I forgot about the death penalty!

I used to be in favor of the death penalty, until my best friend was murdered and I came to terms with the fact that executing the ones who did it wouldn't bring him back.

Pretty strange, huh? I guess having someone close to you brutally killed tends to turn you off to more death. My friend's mother felt the same way.

And I'm with you...the death penalty has been proven an ineffective deterrent, so it's only function is revenge for the family of the victim.

[slackmaster]

51. OK, here are my views on those topics briefly

- 100% pro-choice on abortion. The woman and only the woman has the right to make that difficult decision.

- Believe in RKBA as a subset of right to say, own, or do whatever one pleases as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Libertarian (small 'l') view. Second Amendment restricts the power of the federal government to infringe on that specific right of all free people.

- 100% pro gay rights including all the benefits bestowed on married heterosexual couples.

- Opposed to most drug control laws on libertarian grounds.

- Believe a decent, "floor" level of health care should be available to everyone through comprehensive national health insurance. All elective procedures and treatments should be fee-for-service or funded through optional private insurance.

- Balanced budgets are not necessary from year to year because sometimes it makes sense to buy now and pay later, but there should be long-term accountability to avoid runaway debt servicing expense.

- No pre-emptive war unless all other alternatives have been exhausted. Absolutely no unilateral pre-emptive war; there must always be a coalition of consensus among nations before anyone takes pre-emptive military action.

On edit - I am 100% opposed to the death penalty.

[Romulus]

67. firearms-owning Dem right here

NO ONE is lynching me or anyone in my family.

NO ONE in my family is getting herded into a conservative re-education camp, a la Limbaugh's "Institute for Advanced Conservative studies."

Second Amendment = individual right to self defense.

- anti-death penalty because no government should have the power of life and death over its citizens. Otherwise, there is no "human rights" case against Nazi Germany, Pol Pot & Cambodia, Sudan, former Yugo, etc.

- 100% pro-reproductive choice

- still can't understand why numbnuts in power haven't figured out that national health insurance would be a productivity multiplier for this country

[MrBenchley]

78. Go get 'em, rom....

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://floridashootersnetwork.com

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=39aa32726ae12619c093e9ccdf...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

[slackmaster]

82. My final comment on MrBenchley's spamming

:boring:

[MrBenchley]

85. Gee, slack...you snooze, you lose....

[Maurkov]

90. left-libertarian environmentalist

OpSumBlood, I think you're a liberal. Im concerned about the conflict between "health care is a right" and fiscal responsibility, but I won't derail the thread by trying to talk about it now.

Here's me:

- Pro choice, pornography, prostitution. Women (and men) can do whatever they want with their bodies. Late term abortion is distasteful and should be discouraged, but should not be illegal.

- Pro gay, group marriage. For the government, marriage should just a contract. Everything else is irrelevant religious nuance.

- Against the death penalty. It is racist in application and can't be rescinded. It makes the cost of error and malfeasance too high.

- Against the war on drugs. I believe in harm reduction. Prohibition makes drugs worse.

- Pro nuclear. Not perfect, but short of totalitarian energy controls, or extremely high (ie, regressive) prices we won't reduce consumption. Nuclear power is the result of applying harm reduction to energy policy.

- Pro safety net. No one should starve, die of exposure, or suffer easily treated medical conditions. Society benefits from a healthy workforce.

- Anti tax. At the same time, there is a limit to how much we should force people to pay for the care of strangers. I'm still trying to reason out the correct intersection of these goals.

- Pro gun. Guns are a force equalizer. It is wrong to deny people the capacity to protect themselves from those who are physically stronger.

- Guardedly pro capitalism. Capitalism is good because it encourages the efficient allocation of resources. Some regulation is required but a lot is worse than useless. It should be dead easy to start a small business. Corporations should not have all the rights of natural citizens.

- Guardedly pro trade. Trade also improves efficiency. Treaties should prohibit anti-competitive practices like dumping and subsidies. Using trade to apply political pressure should be allowed, especially where it levels the playing field (pro environment and anti slave-labor, mixed feelings on pro democracy/freedom).

I have some unresolved issues where my understanding of economics contradicts Democratic dogma. Minimum wages may allow some a living wage, but also cause unemployment. Building codes can protect against unsafe living conditions but also prevent real low cost housing.

Unless the race is such a blowout I can waste my vote in a more interesting way, I'll be voting Dem.

[MrBenchley]

91. Will you be posting Democrat is the question...

http://www.glocksunlocked.com

http://www.thehighroad.org

http://floridashootersnetwork.com

http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=aa27b0f26e2de516f5f3939b96aea55f&forumid=57

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5

[Maurkov]

92. Not there.

As I have never previously visited those fora, it would be disingenuous of me to show up and talk about liberal issues.

You're right, though. (At least, I think you might be. I only stopped ignoring you just now.) The number of liberal gun nuts will always be underestimated unless we make ourselves more visible. I'll make a point of saying something progressive on the sites I visit today.

[MrBenchley]

93. Wouldn't be disingenuous in the slightest

Those are supposed to be forums for "enthusiasts" to discuss how they feel about issues, not ditto-monkey central.

"The number of liberal gun nuts will always be underestimated unless we make ourselves more visible. I'll make a point of saying something progressive on the sites I visit today."
Good for you. Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1606097

[Maurkov]

95. You'll understand

if I choose not not follow your advice on decorum. On a new forum I lurk before I speak. If I have something topical to contribute, I will. Rarely will I use a forum as a soap box.

Did you see this?
No. Too much noise in GD.

[MrBenchley]

98. Gee, if it's something topical you want...

there's plenty of political topics at any one of these forums, and nothing but far right wing spouting dittomonkey gibberish. At least on Faux Noise, Alan Colmes clears his throat or blinks once in a while.

"Rarely will I use a forum as a soap box."
Except here....too bad.


It's pretty amazing how many excuses our "pro-gun democrats" can find to avoid saying anything pro-democrat at a gun forum.

[FatSlob]

99. Some of my positions.

Abortion is reprehensible, however regulating it is not a function of the state. It should be legal up until the time the child could survive outside the womb.

Amendment Two refers to individual rights.

The drug war is a waste of money. Regulate and Tax it.

I am opposed to nationalized health-care, as I'm afraid bureaucrats would botch it up. However, I do think that care should be available for the indigent.

I oppose the current Congressional Climate of Pork and would love to see pork projects eliminated, with a corresponding reduction in taxes.

I believe in free markets

I believe that balanced budgets are best, but that deficits are OK for temporary emergencies.

Personal rights are the most important. The right to free speech, the right to bear arms, the right to be free from warrantless searches, the right to protest, the right to be silent, the right to a jury, the right to a speedy and public trial, the right to confront your accuser in court. Individual rights are what makes this country great.

I also believe that those who give up freedom for security deserve neither.

I believe that war is always an option, if it is in the best interests of the United States. I do not believe the Iraq fiasco is in the best interests of the United States.

I support the Interstate Commerce clause of the CONUS.

I support low income housing

I support higher taxes on post-dividend corporate earnings

I support federal standards for cars used in interstate commerce.

I oppose it when federal courts get involved in state matters.

I oppose it when state courts get involved in federal matters.

I support paper ballots.

I support an information embargo of Federal Election results until the last poll closes.

I support the right to drink beer and wine.

I support my local minor-league baseball team.

I support my local small-business owner.

I oppose discrimination on the basis of race, sex, creed, sexual orientation, country of origin, Appalachian origin or other regional origin, marital status, gun status, weight (unless directly related to the job), HIV or other STD status, familial status and probably a few more that I cannot think of.

I believe in national sovereignty

I support the creation of more parks, the preservation of wetlands, a reduction in the dependence on foreign oil, an increase in the use of alternative power sources, an increase in humanitarian aid, an end to the Cuban embargo, the improved policing of our borders, careful management of marine fisheries, the liberalization of concealed carry laws, careful management of our National Forests, better funding for the "Superfund" sites, computers in classrooms, affordable college tuition, equality in funding for public schools, honest discourse amongst those who disagree, higher "CAFE" standards, the creation of public-private cooperatives to further preserve rural lands, support for agricultural improvement, great wines, and the God-given right to enjoy a warm summer day.

Although I don't believe I have ever voted a straight ticket, over 90% of my votes go to the Democrat.

[happyslug]

102. Here are some of the threads I have contributed to.

Hopefully these show that I am a liberal, these are threads which I have contributed to, hopefully for the better (The headings are relate to MY contribution to the thread, the thread itself had a compelety different heading):

The REAL Issue is NOT the banning of weapons, but what are reasonable regulations on firearms:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=44353#44431

The First is more important than the Second, but the Second is Important:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=41313

Children and Youth Expenditures and Crime Rates:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=35140#35318

The American Rural South and its high rate of violence:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=30964#31872

15 Machine guns being a "set up case":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=27527#28118

Militia, National Guard and the 2d amendment:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=54194

Comparing dog/cat and Auto Registration with Gun Registration:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=26284

On the Militia and National Guard:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=27063#27080

Overthrowing tyrants:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=24898#25105

Militia and its uses:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=11204#11631

Decline in Hunting:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=13654#13700

Felons, Voting and Firearm Ownership:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=13160#13671

Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution and Concealed Carry Licenses:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=13374#13573

Substantial Due Process and the 2nd Amendment:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=9735#10051

Why the GOP does NOT want a 2nd amendment case to reach the Supreme Court:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=11383#11558

Here a thread about a low crime, high gun ownership south if no Civil War would have occurred, read my rebuttal to this crap, I believe my rebuttal is very good, and the rest is crap:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=9502#9629