Wimmer (R-moran) gets defensive over Utah's no permit gun bill

[jpak]

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-salt-lake-city/wimmer-gets-defensive-over-no-permit-gun-bill

State Representative Carl Wimmer-R, Herriman got a little defensive in Thursday’s committee hearing of his proposed HB129. The bill would allow citizens over the age of 21 without a serious criminal history or mental illness to openly carry or conceal and carry loaded weapons just about anywhere in the state without a permit and without training.

After saying a study proves more guns cut down on crime and hearing a gasp from a colleague, he waved a report that he says backs that claim and said these are “studies from the university, representative, if you’re going to continue to guffaw.”

Law enforcement also expressed concern over the bill, and Wimmer said he was blind sided by this and opposition from within the House.

Representative David Litvack-D, Salt Lake City said he is opposed to the bill because it goes too far. It allows people to purchase a gun and then decide whether or not they want any training in how to use it safely. Current law requires holders of a concealed weapons permit to take classes on the use of firearms. Litvack tried to kill the bill but failed to do so.

<more>

[Kennah]

1. Vermont Style Carry makes people anxious

However, it's working in 3 states.

[lawodevolution]

2. How bad, he wants to restore the 2A

I doubt the blood will run in the streets

[jpak]

3. How bad republics want to turn Utah into the State of Fear - with armed folks running wild

yup

[Spoonman]

5. I would be careful with your remarks,

you very well could be accused of calling all gun owners douchebags, and there are lots of gun owners on this board.

Someone might get offended.

Me personally no, I would simply reply with a statement regarding pots and kettles.

[oneshooter]

14. Mainly I just"concider the source", then ignore it. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. +1

yup

[rl6214]

7. Which of these republics are you speaking of

20th Century and LaterPanama (est. 1903)
Portugal (est. 5 October 1910)
Azerbaijan (est. 18 May 1918, lost independence to Soviet Russia on 28 April 1920), first democratic parliamentary republic in the Muslim world
Commonwealth of the Philippines (1935–1946)
Second Spanish Republic (de jure: 1931–1939) (de facto: 1931-1975)
Fourth French Republic (1946–1958)
Republic of the Philippines (1946, fully independent from the United States of America, inaugurated on 4 July 1946)
Albania (est. 1946)
Ireland (est. 1949)
India (est. 1950)
Fifth French Republic (since 1958)
Algeria (est. 1962)
Singapore (est. 1965)
Afghanistan (est. 1973)
Nepal (est. 2008)
Zimbabwe

[jpak]

10. Republicans refer to the Democratic Party as the Democrat (sic) Party

So I call them the "republics"

get it?

[rl6214]

12. WHERE

IN YOUR MIND

A republic is a state under a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government.<1><2> The term is generally also understood to describe a state where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic. One common modern definition of a republic is a state without a monarch.<3><4> The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair".

[jpak]

18. Watch the news - listen to the radio - the republics all say "The Democrat Party" now

yup

[rl6214]

22. And nowhere have I ever seen any of them called republics

aaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[jpak]

23. Except DU

Get out of the gungeon much?

:rofl:

[rl6214]

42. Yeah

Breaking news and general discussion usually but I have NEVER seen anyone call them Republics,

except you.


YUP

YUP

YUP

[mediator]

27. So you are making every effort to be just as juvenile as they are?

Well, congratulations.

[jpak]

40. Republics are assholes - yup

n/t

[rl6214]

41. More asshole republics

20th Century and LaterPanama (est. 1903)
Portugal (est. 5 October 1910)
Azerbaijan (est. 18 May 1918, lost independence to Soviet Russia on 28 April 1920), first democratic parliamentary republic in the Muslim world
Commonwealth of the Philippines (1935–1946)
Second Spanish Republic (de jure: 1931–1939) (de facto: 1931-1975)
Fourth French Republic (1946–1958)
Republic of the Philippines (1946, fully independent from the United States of America, inaugurated on 4 July 1946)
Albania (est. 1946)
Ireland (est. 1949)
India (est. 1950)
Fifth French Republic (since 1958)
Algeria (est. 1962)
Singapore (est. 1965)
Afghanistan (est. 1973)
Nepal (est. 2008)
Zimbabwe


YUP

YUP

YUP

[PavePusher]

28. You mean just like Vermont?

Oh teh horrorerrssss!!1!11!

[Dr_Scholl]

4. You really need to learn how to spell moron.

It'll make you look more edumuhcated and stuff.

[jpak]

6. you mean this moran?

[rl6214]

13. If the bandana fits?

YUP

YUP

YUP

[rl6214]

8. She thinks she's being cute

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

[Common Sense Party]

9. The vast majority of Utahans are happy with the laws and CCW permit

process we have now.

[jpak]

11. but not so much with this law which does not require permits or training

yup

[oneshooter]

15. How do you know this? And why should you care? n/t

[jpak]

17. read the OP - that's what it sez - why? - cuz it's stupid

yup

[YllwFvr]

16. plenty of states dont require training

mine doesnt, we are doing just fine thanks. We do have permits still but hopefully that will go away soon

[jpak]

19. That's stupid

yup

[Katya Mullethov]

21. no it's not

nope

[jpak]

24. Yes it is

yup

[Katya Mullethov]

25. No it's not

[PavePusher]

35. No it's not...

[Katya Mullethov]

37. Yes it is

[PavePusher]

39. Wait a minute....

:evilgrin:

[YllwFvr]

26. blood running in the streets right?

all the rights should require training then. Certainly gun safety in school is a good idea.

[PavePusher]

30. May I see proof of your First, Fourth and Thirteenth Amendment training?

Got your permits for those?

[PavePusher]

29. The vast majority of people in some states were happy with the Jim Crow laws.

Didn't mean they were right or Constitutional....

[Common Sense Party]

31. Wow. Do you need some Ben Gay?

That's quite a stretch.

[PavePusher]

32. The point is that Civil Rights are all equal...

and none should require fees or a permission slip from the government.

No streching neccesary. Heck, didn't even need to get out of my chair...

[Common Sense Party]

33. No right is absolute. There are limits on free speech, and we all welcome

and value them. There can be reasonable limits on the right to bear arms, as well. Saying that the government can't regulate ANY aspect of gun ownership is just extreme.

I'm all for RKBA. I have a gun and I'll not be giving it up at any point. I do not in any way see it as a removal of my freedom to require me to take a brief class in order to get a CCW permit. I would prefer to have trained and knowledgeable people being the ones with the guns. Can you imagine if some of these anti-gun ninnies around here were able to just go out and buy a gun and carry it around with no training or instruction whatsoever? Yikes. I'd stay indoors if that were to happen.

[PavePusher]

34. I never claimed to be against all limits.

If you leave those Strawmen at home, you won't be as tired at the end of the day.

"Can you imagine if some of these anti-gun ninnies around here were able to just go out and buy a gun and carry it around with no training or instruction whatsoever?" You mean like in most states with permit-less open or concealed carry? Doesn't seem to be a particular problem. Training doesn't seem to have much influence on criminal behavior.

No-one has to get a First, Fourth or Thirteenth Amendment licence....

[Common Sense Party]

36. No, you just equated Utah's CCW permit law with Jim Crow laws.

Whatever.

[PavePusher]

38. Actually, I meant all states CCW permit requirements.

My apologies for not being clear.

Self-defense, and access to efficient tools for same, is a fundamental human Right. Restricting that Right to only certain times and places, without good cause, is no more moral than restricting any subset of Citizens access to certain places at certain times based on their gender, or race, or anything else.