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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 12:31 PM
Original message
ATF proposes new "emergency plan" to report bulk gun sales ...

Gun regulators propose emergency plan ...
By James V. Grimaldi and Sari Horwitz
Friday, December 17, 2010


To stem the flow of guns to Mexico, federal firearms regulators are proposing an emergency requirement that certain gun dealers along the southwestern border report bulk sales of so-called assault weapons beginning as soon as January.

Dealers would be required to alert authorities when they sell within five consecutive business days two or more semiautomatic rifles greater than .22 caliber with detachable magazines, according to the draft obtained by The Washington Post. Semiautomatic rifles such as AK-47s and AR-15s are favored by drug-trafficking organizations fighting the Mexican government. emphasis added

***snip***

Under the plan, the ATF, which enforces federal gun laws and regulates firearm dealers, would send what is called a "demand letter" to dealers along the border asking them to report the multiple sales, ATF officials said.

Emergency approval would last six months, after which the requirement would end unless other action were taken, the draft states. Approval from the Office of Management and Budget "has been requested by Jan. 5, 2011," the document states.

The ATF is expected to publish in the Federal Register on Friday a notice about the plan, which would affect about 8,500 gun dealers. Although the ATF proposes that the rule would begin as early as January, comments about the proposed rule will be accepted for the next two months.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/16/AR2010121606749.html



Gun owners must speak up to stop long gun sales reporting requirement
December 17th, 2010 10:12 am CT

Gun rights advocates in St. Louis and across the country must make their voices heard, to stop a flagitious new infringement on that which shall not be infringed. This is a further development of something discussed here a couple days ago: the possibility that in addition to the 42-year-old requirement to report multiple handgun sales (as part of the Gun Control Act of 1968), multiple sales of long guns (rifles and shotguns, in other words) would now have to be reported. At the risk of being accused of hyperbolic, "'Sky is falling' rhetoric," it is time to point out that the BATFE apparently is committed to imposing such a requirement, and to do so administratively, without even the pretense of Constutitionality provided by congressional authority.

According to the Washington Post, the idea is to take a smaller (and therefore apparently considered more politically viable) bite of the apple, by somewhat limiting the scope of the new regulations. Thus, the multiple long gun sales requirement would only apply to certain rifles (detachable magazine-fed, semiautomatic rifles above .22 caliber--so called "assault weapons," very broadly defined, in other words), and only gun dealers near the Mexican border would be affected.

***snip***

Note that this is being touted as an "emergency requirement." despite the fact that the campaign to use Mexican drug war violence as justification for more oppressive U.S. gun laws is at least two years old. What new development, one wonders, has turned this into an "emergency" priority? It's considered so much of an "emergency," apparently, that although they will seek comments, from the public and from other agencies that will be affected, for 60 days, but the BATFE is requesting permission to implement it by Jan. 5, 2011, or 19 days from now.

***snip***

By the way, the New York Times yesterday suggested another angle for this kind of regulation: presidential executive order:


With a more Republican Congress in the wings and Democratic lawmakers openly fearful of the gun lobby’s political clout, there is no expectation of courageous legislating to close the loophole. But executive order is another possibility.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-st-louis/gun-owners-must-speak-up-to-stop-multiple-long-gun-sales-requirement


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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wondered what all the wapo and nyt hand wringing was leading toward..
The other shoe drops.

It almost appears coordinated.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, FFS; two semi-auto rifles from one store in five days is a "bulk sale"?
What dictionary do they use inside the Beltway, both at the DoJ and the WaPo?

And I can already predict what's going to happen with a reporting requirement this stringent, namely that damn near every dealer affected is going to have to submit a report damn near every week (because it's pretty easy to sell two semi-auto rifles in a week), and the ATF is going to get themselves snowed under with so many reports--at their own request--most of which are so much chaff that they're never going to identify the wheat in time to actually do anything about it.

Anybody who knows anything about intelligence-gathering knows that all too often, it's not just getting the significant piece of intel that's the challenge, it's identifying at as such amid the mass of other pieces that aren't significant.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. If you are NOT selling two semi-auto rifles a week from your gun store ...
Edited on Fri Dec-17-10 01:31 PM by spin
you should probably consider selling something else entirely.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I assume that's a typo..
.. my guess is the part that's missing from the piece is 'to the same customer'.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. True. Another newspaper screwup ...

ATF to Require Multiple Sales Reports for Long Guns
December 17, 2010

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is moving to require federally licensed firearms retailers to report multiple sales of modern sporting rifles beginning January 5, 2011. Specifically, the ATF requirement calls for firearms retailers to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine and are purchased by the same individual within five consecutive business days.emphasis added
http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-require-multiple-sales-reports-for-long-guns/


The quality of journalism in this nation is seriously declining.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Ah, well, that's an improvement
Though I'd grumble that two rifles sold to one individual in a five-day period still isn't what I'd call "buying in bulk."

And is the quality of journalism declining, or has it always been this shit but the general public wasn't able to pick up on it until the internet came along? Whenever I think that prestigious newspapers are mostly coasting on their reputation, I then have to wonder whether that reputation was ever honestly earned.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The life of a newspaper editor is far more difficult today because of the internet ...
you would think an editor would strive for excellence.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The Utne Reader had an article a couple of years ago..
.. about the decline in vocabulary, and it was amazing, if true. They compared the working vocabulary of teens and young adults from the 50's to now, and found it had dropped by half, if I recall correctly. (Net loss of perhaps 10,000+ words.)
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Upon reflection, I'm not so sure it's the newspaper that screwed up...
In another thread, benEzra helpfully linked to the docket (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-31761.pdf), which reads:
The purpose of the information is to require Federal Firearms Licensees to report multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the following characteristics: (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

The ATF may mean the sale of multiple firearms to a single unlicensed person, but the docket doesn't specify that.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. I think they mean 2 rifle a week to the same person NT
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. The core of Jim Crow laws was subterfuge and pretext. nt
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. I see Kurt Hofmann
is also quoted a lot on FR too. He also frequently links to GOA. Not the best source to use on DU. No wonder so many post here are unrecommended when you see who is used as sources.


:popcorn:
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. You find very few liberal progressive sources that are pro-RKBA ...
which is sad as RKBA and the Second Amendment are extremely liberal and progressive ideas.

If I want to get recommendations for my post I just create one on a topic rather than firearms on GD.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. More association / genetic fallacy?
And here I thought you were improving.

*tsk*
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. You have never discounted
a source used here? New fallacy, Hypocrisy Fallacy. Also see Suppressed evidence or half-truths and Excluded middle - considering only the two extremes in a range of possibilities, then how about Inconsistency Fallacy along with Observational selection Fallacy?
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The source? No.. the information? hell yes.
I'm not above pointing out the frequency that a particular source gets it wrong, but I do it with demonstrable, verifiable facts.

I never say 'oh, another wapo piece of shit..'

And what you just did right there? It's called a Tu Quoque.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Are the sources erroneous, or just distasteful? n/t
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safeinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yes, take a poll and
see if DUers find Free Republic and Gun Owners of America distasteful.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Truth is no less truth because it was found under a cow-flop. n/t
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Did the article by Kurt Hofmann come from either FR or GOA?
Nope it came from http://www.examiner.com/st-louis

To have a fair poll you would have to ask if DUers found the St Louis Examiner distasteful.

To help any interested DUers form an opinion I'll link to another article in the St Louis Examiner. One just before the midterm elections ...


Eight reasons why progressives should vote tomorrow
November 1st, 2010 6:39 pm CT

Below are eight reasons why I think that it’s a good idea for progressives and critical thinkers to vote tomorrow. But who can forget the 2000 presidential election? You may remember how important it was, but you may have forgotten that had Missouri gone for Gore, Florida would have been irrelevant.

# Robin Carnahan is clearly a preferable choice to Roy Blunt for Senate. Despite what she says, she has the potential to play a key role along with Claire McCaskill in advancing a progressive agenda and strengthening the Obama Administration.

# We’ve had the pleasure of seeing Susan Montee is action. This Democratic candidate for State Auditor may be one of the best kept positive secrets in the state.

# Lacy Clay is almost as solid as they come in presenting and protecting a progressive agenda.

# Russ Carnahan has relentlessly been mischaracterized; his voting record is about as progressive as Lacy Clay’s; he’s someone we want to keep in Congress.
http://www.examiner.com/liberal-in-st-louis/eight-reasons-why-progressives-should-vote-tomorrow


It would seem that the St Louis Examiner is fair and publishes opinions from both liberals and conservatives.






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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I find FR and GOA largely distasteful. But GOA does have *one* virtue, imo.
They don't pretend on a regular basis that they hold a political position on guns that they obviously do not.


Would that certain posters here held to the same standard....

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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-10 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. So, please name the Progressive Pro-2A websites he should link to...
that carry the same information.

I'll go clone Tesla while I wait....
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Nothin', eh? Figured... n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. "bulk sales" should be > 10; not 1


wtf?
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