GUNS IN THE NEWS--January 5, 2004

[MrBenchley]

As CO Liberal sez:
Please try to adhere to the following voluntary guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:
1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted on the Internet within the previous 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. On Mondays (since many people do not log in to DU over the weekend), stories can be posted from Saturday, Sunday, or Monday.
2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories, editorials, and press releases are welcome in this thread, as long as they're current. Please do not post links to items from a few years back that support your position.
3 - Bear in mind that any links to extremely right-wing sites (such as Newsmax, CNS, or the Washington Times) or intentionally pro-gun or pro-control sites (such as the NRA or the Brady Campaign) are not considered reliable sources by many DU-ers. If at all possible, try to find a link for your story from a more mainstream source, such as a general-circulation newspaper or magazine site. If you choose to use a slanted site, be prepared for any negative feedback you may receive.
4 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.
5 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.
6 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.
7 - Please direct your comments to the story, rather than attacking the person posting the story or any person responding to the story. In accordance with DU rules, any messages that appear to be personal attacks against another DU-er or violations of any other DU rule will be reported to the moderators.
8 - If you object to these guidelines, do everyone else a favor and go to another thread.

[demsrule4life]

1. Man shot in robbery attempt, police say

A Hill District man was shot and wounded by a clerk while trying to rob a Webster Avenue grocery store, police reported

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/pittsburgh/s_172999.html

[MrBenchley]

7. An armed society is a polite society (Yeah, surrrrrrrrre)

"A clerk at Ann's Market shot Joshua McKenzie, 18, after he pulled a silver handgun Friday night while he and another man were trying to rob the store, police said."

[demsrule4life]

9. Do you think the punk

would of robbed that store if he thought he stood a chance of getting shot? I doubt it.

[MrBenchley]

10. Do you think he would have tried without a gun, dems?

I doubt it.

[demsrule4life]

11. Criminals are basically

cowards, gun or no gun most criminals aren't going to attempt a robbery if they know they stand a chance of getting shot.

[MrBenchley]

14. Yeah, Batman said that roo....

[Superfly]

16. What roo......kangaroo?

ha, ha, ha

[Superfly]

15. Oh yeah, nobody ever commits crimes without guns...

yeah right

Link

A 93-year-old woman refused to give up her car keys to a robber and was beaten to death with a hammer, police said Friday.

[Romulus]

21. must be "imaginary"

hammers don't kill - ALL FIREARMS kill :eyes:

[SmokingLoon]

46. The criminal did have a gun n/t

[MrBenchley]

2. Two Alabama Police Officers Shot, Killed

"ATHENS, Ala. - Two police officers responding to a call from a man asking to speak to the FBI were shot to death in an apparent ambush Friday. A suspect was in custody.
Sgt. Larry Wayne Russell and Officer Tony Mims were shot with an assault rifle when they arrived at the home Friday afternoon, said Wayne Harper, police chief of Athens, a northern Alabama town of about 19,000.
Mims, who never got out of his patrol car, was pronounced dead at the scene. Russell died after being flown by helicopter to Huntsville Hospital.
"Such a loss," Harper said. "Such a senseless thing. Such a terrible thing." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040103/ap_on_re_us/officers_killed_4

[demsrule4life]

3. Suspect in burglary shot in face

January 4, 2004) — CLIFTON SPRINGS — Ontario County sheriff’s deputies said a man is recovering from facial injuries after he was shot by a homeowner early Saturday.

http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0104LS2R1FR_news.shtml

[Superfly]

8. Questions...

Question for some of the more outspoken "antis" who post here. Is this man justified in using his firearm to end the threat?

Another question to ponder...

-What if he had used an AK-47, would the shooting still be justified?

[iverglas]

36. my questions

"Is this man justified in using his firearm to end the threat?"

What threat?

Were there other means available to him -- other than intentionally causing serious injury at the risk of causing death -- to end whatever that threat was? Did he avail himself of any of them? If not, how could he have been justified -- legally or "morally", your choice -- in causing serious injury to someone and risking causing his death?


"Question for some of the more outspoken "antis" who post here."

What is an "anti" anti? On what basis do you characterize any particular individual here as "anti" whatever that is? How is characterizing such a person on the basis of whatever it is that s/he is "anti" relevant to the issues in this forum?

I'm anti-spinach. Do I qualify? Is this information useful for some purpose that is relevant here?

.

[Superfly]

38. What threat?

Ummmm...somebody was breaking into his home. Should he have waited until the burglar was inside the home (affording him more places to hide and possible weapons to use against the homeowner)?

He is justified 100% by ending the threat as quickly as possible without exposing himself to danger. He could have availed himself of pepper spray, I guess, but then the threat would probably still be there.

I just wish he had used something a little bigger, like a 12 guage. This burglar is still alive, is probably pissed off to no end, and now knows the homeowner has at least one gun. If anything, he is a bigger threat now (or when he gets out of prison) than before.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iverglas]

55. "someone was breaking into his house"

Well, before that he was walking down the street. He had the same intention, he just hadn't got to the house yet. I'll bet the homeowner would have been "justified" in blasting him away then, before things got too dangerous.

All the world's a threat, and all of us are about to be victims and therefore justified in blasting all of them away.

On the other hand, when we suspect that someone is actually about to do something to us, we could always try testing that theory just a little.

"HEY YOU! Get away from my window!" ("Or I'll blast you away", if you like.)

I am absolutely positively bet-the-farm convinced that if I had said something like that to the guy who twice walked into my house and took my purse, before he got past the threshhold, he would have turned around and left.

In fact -- prepare to be amazed -- my father survived just such a horrible threat to his life and limb a couple of years ago, despite his own foolish failure to take proper action to protect his life and property. I only realized that my purse was gone, the second time, when I talked to my father later that morning and he asked whether I'd been next door earlier in the day (he was staying in a second floor rental apt. of mine). He'd heard the ground floor door, he'd called out "is that you?", and there was no answer. So he'd gone downstairs, and seen the back of someone walking away down the city sidewalk. Turned out he matched the description of the guy the little neighbour girl had seen go into my house the *first* time my purse was stolen 6 months earlier (and whom the cops eventually fingered, yer usual braindead opportunistic druggie criminal).

There he was, wandering around the neighbourhood for weeks, stealing stuff out of houses -- and not a single body of a murdered homeowner was ever found. And I'm here to tell the tale of my father's miraculous escape, and my own.

"He is justified 100% by ending the threat as quickly as possible without exposing himself to danger. ... I just wish he had used something a little bigger, like a 12 guage."

Ah, if only you ruled the world, eh?

"This burglar is still alive, is probably pissed off to no end, and now knows the homeowner has at least one gun. If anything, he is a bigger threat now (or when he gets out of prison) than before."

What life experiences have you had on which you base this assertion? If not your own experiences, can you explain what it is based on? I ask because you have made an assertion of fact ("he is a bigger threat now ...") that simply does not reflect my own experience or my knowledge of the world outside my personal experience. I am curious what such a flat and unequivocal assertion might be based on.

Gotta go. I need to double-check the six deadbolts on my office door (my office is the apt. where my father used to stay), and grab a few hammers. (After all, they're just the same as a gun, right? so why I'd need a gun, I dunno ... .) That addled loser is undoubtedly on the loose at this very moment, dreaming up his revenge against me ... .

.

[MrBenchley]

56. You will note, once again,

we are being told by one of the RKBA crowd that gun ownership has created more of a risk than less...

"This burglar is still alive, is probably pissed off to no end, and now knows the homeowner has at least one gun. If anything, he is a bigger threat now (or when he gets out of prison) than before."

[Superfly]

57. And naturally, your reaction would be to

disarm both parties.

There are always hammers.

[iverglas]

62. in case it was missed in all the fuss

The point was ever there, but both the point and the query may now be clearer:


"This burglar is still alive, is probably pissed off to no end, and now knows the homeowner has at least one gun. If anything, he is a bigger threat now (or when he gets out of prison) than before."

What life experiences have you had on which you base this assertion? If not your own experiences, can you explain what it is based on? I ask because you have made an assertion of fact ("he is a bigger threat now ...") that simply does not reflect my own experience or my knowledge of the world outside my personal experience. I am curious what such a flat and unequivocal assertion might be based on.


(html edited) (again)

.

[SmokingLoon]

47. There is one thug

Who probably won't try to rob an occupied home again.

[MrBenchley]

4. Charges against teenager stiffened (FL)

"OCALA - Authorities have toughened the charges against a 13-year-old boy who has been arrested in the shooting of his 6-year-old stepbrother.
Jesse Allen Rowe has been charged with aggravated assault and felony battery, according to a Sheriff's Office report released Friday afternoon.
The new charges - up from the original possession of a firearm by a minor under 18-years-old - were filed based on the shooting victim's interview and his injuries, according to sheriff's officials.
In the report, the 6-year-old boy, James Conley, told authorities that he was at home playing with his toys, at 24 Carry Back Road in the Meadowbrook Farms subdivision dear Dunnellon, when Jesse got his mother's .357-caliber Magnum from her bedroom.
The gun was a gift from Larry Conley to his wife, Sheriff's Office officials said."

http://www.starbanner.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040103/NEWS/201030311/1001/FEATURES01

[demsrule4life]

5. Mother Defends Children Against Robbers

A Columbus mother grabbed a gun and defended her family against armed robbers

http://www.10tv.com/news/archive/010204local6746.php?story=010204local6746

[MrBenchley]

12. An armed society is a polite society.....in a pig's eye

"Columbus police say four juveniles with a gun kicked in the door of a home on North Roys Avenue near West Broad Street early this morning."

[Superfly]

13. And you would have the woman be unarmed?

:shrug:

[demsrule4life]

17. I think common sense died out in the 50's

when that one car model (name escapes me) had go printed on the gas pedal and stop on the brake pedal.

[MrBenchley]

19. It certainly seems extinct among the RKBA crowd

[demsrule4life]

32. If his wife was in this situation

and she shot one of the assholes, would he bitch at his wife about making society unsafe?

[MrBenchley]

49. Somebody else'swife was in this situation

and the RKBA crowd is fighting to make sure punks like these can get their hands on guns. As usual.

[demsrule4life]

18. With those four punks off the

street there is a little more civilization in that area.

[SmokingLoon]

48. God bless that woman

Here's to more evidence that arms in the hands of law abiding citizens are good!

[MrBenchley]

6. Victim Of Shooting Blames His Girlfriend (FL)

"TAMPA - A man was shot after an argument with his girlfriend Saturday, a Tampa police report said.
James H. McMillan, 42, and girlfriend Ivy Anderson, 43, reportedly argued early Saturday, the report said.
McMillan was outside his house at 3609 E. 33rd Ave. about 7:30 p.m. when he heard a loud pop, the report said. That's when he realized he had been shot. "

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGAO5ZVK0PD.html

[MrBenchley]

20. School reopen amid heightened security (OH)

"Sheriff's patrols in marked and unmarked vehicles were increased as schools reopen in the South-Western School District whose buses were hit by sniper gunfire last month.
School administrators said they also were taking additional security measures.
Students are returning to classes in suburban Grove City after a two-week break for the holidays.
The district canceled classes for its 20,000 students on Dec. 18 and 19, the last days before the break, after two buses were fired on. The district is adjacent to Interstate 270 where many of the sniper shootings have occurred.
Authorities urged students, parents and school personnel to be on guard. "

http://www.10tv.com/news/archive/010504local6757.php?story=010504local6757

[MrBenchley]

22. Stray Bullet Kills Boy In Front Of His Home (FL)

"MIAMI - A 9-year-old boy was killed by a stray bullet from a nearby gunfight while he was sitting with friends in front of his home, police said.
Jaroby Brooks collapsed after he was shot in the chest Saturday night in Miami's Liberty City neighborhood, Miami-Dade police said. "

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGAQBNMZ1PD.html

[MrBenchley]

23. Two dead, one wounded in Queens shooting

"NEW YORK (AP) _ Two teenagers died and a third was hurt after they were shot by an unknown gunman in Queens, police said.
The victims, who were not identified, were shot at about 10 p.m. Saturday outside a house party at the intersection of Caffrey Avenue and New Haven Avenue in the Rockaway section, police said.
A 16-year-old man was pronounced dead at the scene and a 17-year-old man was taken to St. John's Hospital, where he later died. The third was taken to Jamaica Hospital and was in critical condition Sunday morning, police said. "

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--doubleshooting0104jan04,0,4364720.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[Superfly]

24. Aren't guns banned in NYC?

I thought it took an act of God to get a carry permit for NYC.

[MrBenchley]

25. Armed fugitive commits suicide during standoff (NY)

"CICERO, N.Y. (AP) _ A 40-year-old man wanted for assaulting his ex-girlfriend killed himself with a handgun following a three-hour standoff with deputies early Monday.
Nicholas A. Rich, of Satellite Beach, Fla., died from a single shot to his head while surrounded by members of the Onondaga County Sheriff's Department SWAT team, said Sgt. John D'Eredita, a sheriff's spokesman.
Authorities had been seeking Rich since Nov. 26, when an arrest warrant was issued charging him with second-degree assault, first-degree unlawful imprisonment, fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon and second-degree menacing. "

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--standoffsuicide0105jan05,0,5927234.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[demsrule4life]

26. He was looking out for the N..Y. tax payers

[MrBenchley]

28. A typical responsible gun owner

[demsrule4life]

29. I don't shed any tears

for any assholes that kill themselves. No cop has to feel guilty about shooting them, and the taxpayers don't have to pay to keep them in prison for the next fifty years.

[MrBenchley]

30. Hey, the only time the RKBA crowd sheds tears

is when somebody slanders their fetish.

"assholes that kill themselves. No cop has to feel guilty about shooting them"
Assisted suicide, eh?

[demsrule4life]

31. When I said I don't shed a tear

it hasent anything to do with the RKBA crowd. It is my opinion after thirty years of law enforcement. By the way assisted suicide is when cops have to shoot, your idiot shot himself. Get your facts straight.

[iverglas]

34. talk about missing the point

(Apart altogether from the question of why so many people hereabouts seem to think that the subject of what tears they shed or do not shed makes such compelling reading for others ...)

If the <insert derogatory epithet here> had not had a handgun, there would have been no armed standoff.

And if he been a little more homicidal than suicidal, we would quite likely have been reading about a dead cop or bystander or family member, rather than a dead <insert derogatory epithet> here, as we do in other cases. But likely not if he hadn't had a firearm.

.

[Superfly]

35. Who knows....

"But likely not if he hadn't had a firearm." - he could have used a hammer, with the same results.

Link

[iverglas]

37. gosh

That just didn't look like an "armed standoff" to me. Did it look like one to you?

"Same results"? I dunno. Next time you find a story about someone holding police in an armed standoff by brandishing a hammer from a considerable distance, you let me know.

.

[Superfly]

39. talk about missing the point....

Thank you, iverglas, for that one...

The point was that the tool is immaterial.

[Romulus]

40. well, you know

the reason there are *never* "armed standoffs" with people who do not have firearms is that the super-ninja police just do a Chow Yun Fat ninjitsu kick to the suspect's hand holding the knife/hammer/etc.

After that the suspect just collapses on his/her knees and gives up. :eyes:

[iverglas]

41. that's a pretty blunt instrument

... that "point" of yours:

"The point was that the tool is immaterial."

Remember that next time you want to engage someone in an armed standoff and are deciding what tool to use for the purpose. "The tool is immaterial." May I suggest a wet noodle?

.

[Superfly]

42. Once again...missing the point...

If I grab a wet noodle, barricade myself inside my home, and say I have a hostage, will an armed standoff be the result? Yes.

The tool is immaterial.

[iverglas]

will an armed standoff be the result?

"If I grab a wet noodle, barricade myself inside my home, and say I have a hostage, ..."

Well, okay, as long as you make sure to get yourself a reaaallly stupid hostage ...

.

[Superfly]

45. Don't even need to do that...

Just duct tape (thanks Homeland Security Dept) dark plastic sheeting over the windows and *mention* that I have a hostage.

An armed standoff will ensue until the authorities have enough information to act...and the longer they do not have that info, the longer the standoff.

[iverglas]

53. ho hum

The evidence suggests that you do not intend to respond to anything I say. (I will of course be interested in your explanation of how one takes a hostage, and creates an armed standoff, with a wet noodle, or a hammer, should you ever decide to offer it). There may be another way of interpreting the evidence, all the evidence; another equally reasonable conclusion to be drawn from it; I am always open to considering such an alternative.

There are various ways of conveying the impression that nothing has been said that calls for a response, if that were really what someone wanted to do. There are also various ways of deterring others from responding to what one says, if that were really what someone wanted to do. (I can't imagine why anyone would want either of those things, but I'm sure some people would.) Persistently ignoring what they said while purporting to respond to it is but one method.

There are others. Ignoring it altogether would be one (although not as effective as another I can think of). Not one I'd necessarily choose spontaneously, since I happen to enjoy discourse about issues I find interesting. But there's no accounting for tastes, and also no actual discourse without actual interlocutors, so there's little point in wasting one's time if one finds that one's tastes aren't shared or one has no actual interlocutor.

Just me, musing aloud.

.

[demsrule4life]

59. Why does the hostage have to be stupid?

hostage taker could be 6'4 280 lbs and the hostage a child or small woman. I have been involved in barricaded hostage situations with the only weapon used was size and strength.

[milliner]

63. Talk about assumptions

And if he been a little more homicidal than suicidal, we would quite likely have been reading about a dead cop or bystander or family member, rather than a dead <insert derogatory epithet> here, as we do in other cases. But likely not if he hadn't had a firearm.

Nice assumption misses the fact though. unless you are a mind reader and understand the motives

.

[iverglas]

65. mind reading? moi?

That must just be me (quite subconsciously!) trying to fit in! I'd just been wondering the same sort of thing myself, indeed:

"This burglar is still alive, is probably pissed off to no end, and now knows the homeowner has at least one gun. If anything, he is a bigger threat now (or when he gets out of prison) than before." - post 38

I'm sure you're as anxious as I am to know where we can buy one of the crystal balls that (at least in my admittedly limited personal experience) one would normally need in order to so confidently make that (the underlined) kind of assertion.


But I'm all at sea when I read your post. Perhaps, to begin to assist me, you can explain what your own assertion of an "assumption" here is based on.

I said:

And if he been a little more homicidal than suicidal, we would quite likely have been reading about a dead cop or bystander or family member, rather than a dead <insert derogatory epithet> here, as we do in other cases. But likely not if he hadn't had a firearm.

... and you replied:

Nice assumption

In all and perfect sincerity, I just don't know where you're seeing an assumption there.

I stated a hypothetical premise -- IF he had been a little more homicidal than suicidal.

I stated a conclusion that I called "quite likely" -- we would quite likely have been reading about a dead cop or bystander or family member -- IF he had been more homicidal than suicidal (and if he had still had a firearm).

Do you find this conclusion unreasonable? Do you think that, given the hypothetical premise I had posited -- someone more homicidal than suicidal -- some other outcome would have been more likely than the one I posited?

Certainly I will be happy to consider any alternative outcome that you think might have been more likely. Or any reason you might have for thinking that the outcome I suggested was "quite likely" was, rather, unlikely, or not very likely, or whatever.

Help me out. Explain this problem you have with what I wrote, and I'll see what I can do either to persuade you that you should agree with it, or to adjust it to make it more agreeable to you.


Now, you go on to say that something (whether what I said, or the "assumption" to which you refer, I don't know -- I'd guess the assumption, but that guess is based more on what might be an inadvertent omission of punctuation than anything else) "misses the fact though". Again, I am experiencing some difficulty grasping your point.

What fact did it (whatever it is) miss?


You conclude by saying:

"unless you are a mind reader and understand the motives"

Now, this goes back to pretty much where we started, I think. Your problem with my "assumption". I assumed that, in the case I posited (I made up), the motives were homicidal. That's what I said.

I didn't say that the motives were homicidal -- I said that IF they were, then I would think that a particular outcome would be "quite likely".

So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, at least to me, for you to say that I have missed a point unless I understand the motives. (I'm afraid that I'm having a hard time even reproducing the meaning of these words, but perhaps that is just me being dim, and in any event I beg your indulgence, and your forgiveness in advance, if I have misunderstood it, or unintentionally misconstrued or misrepresented it.) It really is perfectly acceptable for someone to hypothesize a fact situation and then suggest what the outcome of it would be, particularly where she offers, as I did, some reason to think that the outcome could reasonably be anticipated.

Should I understand you to be objecting to anyone doing that? That would really make a discussion of any kind of public policy issue rather difficult. Such discussions tend to consist rather heavily of people hypothesizing fact situations -- "a prohibition on firearms possession", say, for a recent example -- and then suggesting likely outcomes of those situations, based on which they they approve or disapprove of actions that would create those fact situations and (in their submission) lead to those outcomes.

I just dunno. I suggested that an individual with a firearm, engaged in an armed standoff, who was not suicidal but homicidal, might well be expected to have killed someone else rather than himself. (That seems almost tautological to me.) It doesn't seem like a far-fetched hypothetical situation -- a homicidal individual with a firearm engaged in an armed standoff with police. And the outcome I suggested doesn't seem to be something that would only occur in one's wildest dreams -- that a homicidal individual with a firearm engaged in an armed standoff with police might kill a cop, or a bystander, or whomever s/he was holding hostage. And the alternative outcome I suggested -- that a homicidal individual without a firearm engaged in an unarmed or, well, badly-armed standoff with police just wouldn't be quite as likely to kill a cop or bystander, if only through simple inability to aim a hammer with quite the necessary velocity and accuracy (although yes, quite true, s/he might still kill someone within closer range) -- just doesn't seem all that out-in-left-field, to me, either.

I just can't see where I would have had to be engaging in mind-reading, or what motives I might have had to understand other than those I stated ("homicidal"), in order for what I said to be a reasonable sort of thing to say.

I will look forward to any clarification you can provide, so we may continue this discussion and hopefully sort out whatever the problems are in such a way as to come to mutual understanding and the agreement that surely must inevitably then result.

Yours truly, etc.

.

[MrBenchley]

27. Boy, 16, dies from shooting injuries (VA)

Printer Friendly Version
"A 16-year-old Richmond boy shot New Year's Day near his home died yesterday from his injuries at VCU Medical Center.
Peytron Johnson, Richmond's first homicide victim of the year, died at 11:25 a.m., a hospital spokeswoman said.
He had been shot in the upper body at 4 p.m. Thursday in the 1800 block of Idlewood Avenue in the Randolph area. That block is behind the Richmond Police Department's 3rd Precinct headquarters."

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031772913916&path=!news&s=1045855934842

[MrBenchley]

33. Man Admits Threatening Hillary (NJ)

"CAMDEN, N.J. -- A convicted bank robber who told a prison psychologist he wanted to "spice up" his life by shooting a famous person has admitted threatening to kill U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, officials said.
Edward Falvey, 51, pleaded guilty to a charge of threatening to kill an immediate family member of a former president, a federal crime that carries a penalty of up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. No sentencing date has been set, according to Greg Reinert, a spokesman with the U.S. Attorney's office.
In 1977, Falvey was arrested and charged with threatening to kill then-President Carter. Falvey was convicted and received probation.
According to the Secret Service, Falvey wrote an April 2003 letter to a prison psychologist in which he said he wanted to "shoot a very famous person. ... My life is dull and boring. I need to spice it up." "

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyork/nyc-clinmain0104,0,324415.story?coll=ny-nynews-headlines

Maybe the pinhead got the idea from the gun fetishists over at the "land of reason."

http://www.glocksunlocked.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1128&hl=liberal

Or maybe from those freeper skanks at the Second Amendment Sisters...

http://www.americanpolitics.com/070699deaththreat.html

"It's the hate mail and death threats sprinkled through the site, however, that some of Free Republic's former supporters believe demonstrate the decline of the site.
Samples about the Clintons: "Somehow, genital herpes just isn't enough for this duo ... 357 seems more on the mark (it may take a village to whack you, you sullen bitch!)"

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/13/free/print.html

[SmokingLoon]

44. Concealed gun bill still faces hurdles (OHIO)

From the Cincinnati Enquirer

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/01/05/loc_loc1bgun.html

[MrBenchley]

50. Teen, Mother Face Charges After Shot Fired During Arrest (OH)

"Two people were arrested over the weekend after an undercover drug deal that ended with shots fired at police officers.
The incident happened Friday night on Kemper Lane in Walnut Hills while police were trying to arrest Robert Patterson, 18, WLWT Eyewitness News 5 reported.
According to police, Patterson was stopped during a drug investigation, and officers found a gun on him.
Investigators said Patterson actively resisted officers' efforts to get the gun away from him. During the struggle, Patterson was able to grab the gun and fire one shot, WLWT reported. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040105/lo_wlwt/1943294

[MrBenchley]

51. Police Investigate York Shooting

"A 17-year-old York resident was shot once in the leg shortly before 3 a.m. Monday on South Pine Street.
Police said the teen had a stolen firearm that was used during the incident. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040105/lo_wgal/1943336

[MrBenchley]

54. 6-year-old shoots mother on I-69 (IN)

Another family made safer by guns...

"ANDERSON, Ind. -- A 6-year-old boy who found a handgun in the back seat of a sport utility vehicle accidentally fired the gun, shooting and injuring his mother as she drove, police said.
The accident occurred Sunday as Tomekia R. Wilson drove on Interstate 69 in Madison County with her sister and Wilson's son on a trip home to Fort Wayne. In the back seat, the boy found a duffel bag under a seat and pulled out a .38 caliber revolver, said Indiana State Police Trooper Robert May.
As the boy played with the gun, it discharged, firing a bullet through the back of the driver's seat. Wilson was struck above the waist, said May, who responded to Wilson's 911 call after she stopped along the highway to report she had been shot."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/108699-7063-093.html

[MrBenchley]

58. Police: Man Reaches For Gun During Traffic Stop (MI)

"An 18-year-old man faces charges following a traffic stop by Michigan State Police troopers this weekend.
The man was stopped in his 1990 two-door, red Ford Probe on eastbound McNichols, between Woodward and Oakland avenues, for an equipment violation around 1:45 a.m. Saturday, police said. The man attempted to flee while troopers were talking with him with the driver's door opened in his car, according to police. Police said the driver also reached for a loaded gun.
A trooper fired a shot at the man, which wounded him in the arm, police said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040105/lo_wdiv/1943660

[MrBenchley]

60. Kinks singer Ray Davies wounded

"The Kinks singer Ray Davies is recovering after being shot in the thigh while on holiday in New Orleans.
The singer-songwriter, 59, was wounded on Sunday after trying to run after two men who allegedly stole his female companion's purse at gunpoint.
He was admitted to the Medical Center of Louisiana but his injuries were not considered serious.
A New Orleans police spokesman said one person had been arrested, and police were still searching for the second. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3370357.stm

[Wickerman]

64. It just ain't right to shoot Ray Davies - n/t

[MrBenchley]

61. Lebanon Police Look For Murder Suspect (PA)

"Lebanon police are still looking for 17-year-old Shawn Thierwechter, whom they believe shot a man to death New Year's Eve.
That incident was the second violent drug incident in one neighborhood in less than a month, and neighbors said they've had enough.
"It needs to stop. It needs to stop. It's just a bad situation," Philip O'Fray said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1025&ncid=1025&e=1&u=/ibsys/20040105/lo_wgal/1943947

[Moderator]

66. locking

have a nice Wednesday