Coyotes kill woman on hike in Canadian park

[Hoopla Phil]

TORONTO - Two coyotes attacked a Canadian woman while she was hiking alone in a national park in eastern Canada, and authorities said she died Wednesday of her injuries.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police spokeswoman Brigdit Leger said other hikers heard Mitchell's screams for help on Tuesday and called emergency police dispatchers.

Police who were in the area reached the scene quickly and shot one of the animals, apparently wounding it. But the wounded animal and a companion coyote managed to get away.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33509516/ns/world_news-americas




What a damn shame. Several things come to mind here.

* These were not rabid coyotes as they would have attacked each other before going after her. I'm thinking her diminutive size contributed to the coyotes aggression because normally they stay clear of people.
* A firearm was eventually used but too late. (seconds really do count)
* Even in most states here in the U.S. she still would not have had a handgun because of her age.

[doc03]

1. It is a shame she was killed. A young lady going

hiking alone unarmed anywhere is just plain dumb. That area is also black bear country, black bears rarely attack humans either. How many people have been killed or assaulted by humans on the Appalachian trail over the years? I am a man 5' 11" and 210 lbs. and wouldn't dream of going hiking alone unarmed, never mind the animals what about the human predators.

[jeepnstein]

2. Bear Spray for the Win!

I suppose they allow Canadians to have that. I'd be fogging the area like Pepe' le Pew.

[Euromutt]

3. Weird; I don't think I've ever heard of coyotes killing a human

Not that I'm doubting the veracity of the story, it's just that there has to have been something very unusual going on.

Understand I'm not trying to blame the victim here, because this was a freak occurrence that could not have reasonably have been foreseen, but two lessons to be drawn are a) don't hike alone, and b) carry bear spray at a minimum. Against canines, with all those exposed nasal membranes, bear spray has got to be horribly effective.

[DontTreadOnMe]

4. Bear Spray

easy solution.

Wild animals are hungry.


$5 bear spray can save your life.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. If my life might depend on it, I'm not going to get one of those crappy 5$ cans.

Go bigger, better.
http://www.rei.com/product/623173?cm_mmc=cse_msn-_-datafeed-_-product-_-623173&mr:referralID=017438a2-c4aa-11de-99f3-000423c27407

Same product can probably be had for less elsewhere, but these bigger fire extinguisher cans give you better range, tighter spray, and more of it. Worst case scenario, maybe you can thump one of the coyotes on the head with it.

[taurus145]

30. I'm not going to trust any can of anything

Fending off animal attacks, especially those that are capable of killing you is the primary reason I carry a sidearm in the woods when not hunting.

We also get the occasional rabid skunk, opossum, raccoon, etc. that needs dispatching.

[sybylla]

5. Me too.

Never heard of coyotes hunting in a pack either. They don't tend to pack. They hunt alone for small animals: rabbits, fox, wild birds, etc. I'm wondering if this wasn't juvenile wolves - who can look an awful lot like a coyote even to the experienced eye.

[Euromutt]

6. The problem with coyotes is that it's impossible to say "they don't do X"

Because somewhere in North America, right now, a coyote is probably doing X. Their adaptability is a large part of why they've been able to spread across most of the continent. And while coyotes typically operate alone or in pairs, they have been known on occasion to form "aggregate packs" for the purpose of bringing down larger game, like whitetail deer, sometimes with remarkably sophisticated "hammer and anvil" tactics.

I strongly doubt it was wolves. For starters, there are no currently known wolf packs in Nova Scotia; the closest you'll find any is on the other side of the St. Lawrence river, and that's quite a slog. Also, wolves tend to keep away from people more than coyotes do, unless some idiot has been leaving food lying around.

[juno jones]

10. Yes coyotes can pack.

We had a surreal encounter with a pack while camping in Lake Tahoe. We just kept the fire going and had our wolf hybrid near to hand and they eventually passed by, but hearing the calls and howls and other noises of probably a dozen of these creatures surrounding our camp was sort of unnerving.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. It's not generally known that Eastern Coyotes are part wolf

One theory is that male wolves interbred w/ female coyotes. DNA tests have been done on coyotes in the NE US and Canada
and shown a distinct difference from the Western coyote. The Eastern ones are bigger, and have anatomical differences
from the Western kind. Links here from my thread in the Rural/Farm forum will give you the 411:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=268x2938

Like I said in that thread, friends of mine photographed some in Cape Ann, Massachusetts. The one I saw was gray and big

[Euromutt]

18. Red wolf, maybe; gray wolf, unlikely

There's been confirmed hybridization of red wolves (Canis rufus) with coyotes, though I don't know how many of those you'd find. The USFWS purposely extirpated the red wolf in 1980 in order to set up a captive breeding program; they rounded up as many animals as they could, and found that only 14 were pure red wolves. The remainder were hybrids, and those were euthanized. And to be best of my knowledge, C. rufus never ranged further north than New York state.

Gray wolves (C. lupus) will kill coyotes on sight. Interbreeding is almost unheard of.

Now, this is speculation on my part (and I should note I'm not a biologist, but I do volunteer at a wolf conservation organization, and take an amateur interest), but I actually suspect that red wolves are more closely related to coyotes than they are to gray wolves. You have to bear in mind that coyotes are native to the Great Plains and have only spread out since humans damn near wiped out the gray wolf in the U.S., so the early colonists would have encountered the red wolf long before they encountered coyotes. Gosh, we have some wild, dog-like creature running around the forests, so let's name it after the wild, dog-like creatures we have back in Europe, i.e. "wolf," only we'll call these "red wolf" to distinguish them from regular (gray) wolves. Hell, some people call coyotes "prairie wolves," so the linguistic distinction is even more vague than the genetic one.

I rather suspect the reason "it's not generally known that Eastern Coyotes are part wolf" is because that's somebody's pet theory, with little to no independent corroboration. Researchers can get this way, witness the proliferation of sub-species of wolf "identified" by Goldman and Anderson in the 1930s and 1940s. Goldman in particular seemed to be unable to cross a watershed divide without classing any wolves he came across as a new subspecies, most of which are no longer generally considered to be distinct subspecies.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. The Eastern ones differ genetically and anatomically from the W. ones

http://mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2007/11/17/massachusetts-study-says-eastern-coyote-part-wolf

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=458&q=150783

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=wylie-coywolf-the-coyote-wolf-hybri-2009-09-23

http://www.projectcoyote.org/newsreleases/news_eastern.html

Quote:

...The most plausible scenario is that the eastern coyote is actually a hybrid between coyotes and a small type of wolf. Dr. Brad White’s research team at Trent University reported that the wolves found in southeastern Canada may actually be the same species as the red wolf (Canis rufus, or Canis lycaon as proposed) found in the southeastern United States. This “eastern wolf” is smaller, weighing about 60 pounds, and is thought to be more closely related to the coyote than to the gray wolf because both are theorized to have evolved in the New World whereas the gray wolf originated in the Old World. Thus, White’s research group theorized that the genetic similarity of the coyote and Canis lycaon might facilitate hybridization, especially when populations are low in an area. (In fact, the biggest threat currently facing the red wolf in the southeastern United States is hybridization with coyotes colonizing the periphery of the North Carolina red wolf recovery area.)

I have been collaborating with White’s genetic team, and they recently finished analyzing the genetic results of about 75 of our samples from eastern Massachusetts. Perhaps not surprisingly, they did find evidence for hybridization. They found that our study subjects were mainly eastern coyote, but all also had western coyote and eastern/red wolf genetic influence as well. White believes the eastern coyote should be classified as its own species because all of the samples from the Northeast (including from Massachusetts, New York, Maine, and New Brunswick) grouped more closely to each other than to western coyotes or wolves. Interestingly, biologists call these same Canids “Tweed wolves” in Ontario, and White notes that they are a product of hybridization between eastern coyotes and eastern wolves.

We are still trying to sort through this “canid soup” and have found variability within study areas with some “coyotes” having nearly pure red/eastern wolf and others having much western coyote DNA. We will likely not be able to officially call the eastern coyote a new species until we sample throughout the Northeast and determine where they become less “eastern coyote” and more “western coyote” or “eastern wolflike.” However, it is obvious that the eastern coyote is indeed distinct when I compare the size and physical makeup of eastern and western coyotes; I see a more massive eastern coyote that looks very similar to the red wolves that have graced the covers of past issues of International Wolf....

[taurus145]

28. Probably reds

We've noticed some significant changes in the coyotes we've killed around here (They were either attacking pets and/or livestock) since the reintroduction of red wolves into the area some 30 years ago.

They're bigger, seem to be meaner, and definitely run in packs from time to time.

[SteveM]

29. I was thinking red wolves, also. Not as big as grays, but bigger than coyotes.

I've heard that "intergrading" occurs as well. Maybe this is the result.

Gosh, I remember sitting under trees in the dark waiting for deer and hearing coyotes quavering on a bluff a mile away. Hell, I camped out on a management area not 60 miles from Austin, admiring the stars and listening to those "dogs." I even got one up while dove hunting last year. That was during mid-day! He gave me a look that said: You know what time it is? It was legal to shoot coyotes, but I chose not to. Rather large animal. The management area has a good deer population, but no rabbits to speak of.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Coyotes are widely misunderstood. They can in fact be pack animals.

In the absence of grey wolves in Yellowstone National Park, the coyotes have been known to bring down ELK. They are predators, capable of pack cooperation, and they can be aggressive toward animals many times their size. Anything that can kill an elk is a serious threat to a human.


Dunno if bear spray would even work. I'd want one of those big fire-extinguisher sized cans of it. Smaller can, and with a couple misses, you'd be out.

Edit: Also, they killed one of them, so I doubt the species was mis-identified. I'm impressed with the response time of the police or wardens, whichever it was. Hell, they almost got there in time.

[TheWraith]

9. I have to wonder what was going on here.

Animals like coyotes normally don't consider humans to be prey unless they're threatened. Granted that can happen unintentionally...

[SteveM]

12. Coyotes, like pumas, are expanding...

They follow not only the increasing deer population, but the "edge" created by both farming and suburban development, with all its emphasis on pets and domesticated animals. In one year, I saw a coyote at 3 p.m. while hunting a popular public dove field 55 miles north of Austin, Texas; and was told by the land-owner where I hunt deer that a puma went sniffing through a 30-acre cattle food plot, trying to track down a deer, I presume. The hunter on this quaint 125-acre spread began to think he was in the Big Bend!

[OttavaKarhu]

16. Animal control in our neighborhood is provided

...by coyote and cougar.

So far we have cohabited peacefully, which I can't say is the same for the packs of free-running yuppie hounds, released in the morning as their McMansionista owners go to work. These dogs gather in the nearby state forestland and Pack Up (we sometimes could hear them howling as they got their wild on). And then move out through homes (our greenbelt area is zoned from one house to one acre, to ten acres, with some older larger forested tracts still standing).

So here, where Animal Control refused to help us all with the dog attacks, and the Sheriff said "not our problem, shoot to kill," the coyote and cougar have served a real good community need. After one particularly vicious and insane black Lab was taken out by the old silverback alpha coyote and two of his sons, things calmed way down around here. Damn, for that, they're better neighbors than 2/3 the humans, who suffered attacks and threats and appeased both the dog and its passive aggressive millionaire owners. The coyote knew what to do, the pack lost its leader, the beta who stepped up was then run onto the highway by the coyote pack, and the beta dog hit by a truck. Not one problem with local dogs wilding after that, the word got out, and now more McMansioneers are keeping their dogs on closer tether. That's pretty good LE, better than what we're paying taxes for from the humans.

Now there's just the one rich yuppie who takes her vicious dog off leash on state land, ignoring leash laws at the state, city, and county level, and hisses "kill" at it. And it goes looking for trouble in our neighborhoods, on the local college campus.... She's a local high-paying Democrat, by the way. 5,000-square-foot house on ten acres. Obama stickers on the Lexus SUV. She's like this poster child for Wrong. The law doesn't apply to her--she's on the Correct Side. She shops at Trader Joe's and has certified organic children!

The cougars and coyote have also held the deer population more in check. They've put a lid on this year's weird outbreak of roof rats and gophers. They are performing valuable "ecosystem services" for us.

When I've encountered the coyote, or our early-morning-running neighbor has, they've made eye contact, been watchful and curious, and, when we stand our ground and look big, and on occasion walk over to a tree and whizz on it, the coyote have lowered their heads in a submissive signal and moved on. Once our neighbor said that the alpha coyote vanished into the forest, then he continued on, felt eyes on his back, looked back about 200 feet, and saw old man coyote there, standing just outside the trees. Neighbor paused, and he said the coyote then sauntered over to the tree where he'd just whizzed, and corrected the scent. :D Then looked the neighbor in the eye, gave a submissive signal, and melted back into the forest. "This is mine. But I recognize your status."

Part of the problem is that we are so pathetically ignorant of the way these intelligent, complex animals think and communicate.

Yet I carry outside the house. As I remain alert and try to look big and stompy. I love nature, love the forest, love the wilderness, the mountains, etc. But I would never assume that my glassy-eyed worship of the natural world translates into it being completely and eternally safe.

[GreenStormCloud]

20. I grew up listening to coyotes sing.

I can't tell how much I miss that. But when I was alone in the brush, I almost always had my shotgun with me.

[OttavaKarhu]

13. This calls for pack behavior

That is to say:

People, when you're out alone in a remote and wild place, please leave behind the assumption that everything in nature is fluffy bunnies and rainbows. Yes, nature is beautiful, inspiring, a great source of spirit and joy. But also, we are not in charge. Our fantasies are not in charge. And isn't this part of the reason we go "into nature," to get a respite from the human drama?

Out "in nature" anything can happen, and often does, and this is why experienced back country and high country travelers (including me) say:

***Always take the ten essentials + 1. PACK A SIDEARM.***

Though I'm guessing that carrying a handgun in Canada/Nova Scotia/Toronto is such a big problematic deal, and demonized, that it wouldn't even be on this woman's radar as she trekked out onto the moors.

And I'm guessing that the response will be, "Well, one small woman mangled and dead is better than if she (horrors!) had been armed and trained to protect herself."

One last thing. I'm guessing that this woman died of shock related to bloodloss and all that goes with that. This is the other thing. Out there, you're not just one 911 call away from help. YOU are 911.

***Always take the ten essentials + 1.***

It is sad that this teenager met such a frightening and painful death. I always feel something akin to despair when I see how badly prepared so many people are when they go out hiking, as though deep down they think that smiles and optimism and Hope For The Future somehow exempts our species from having to encounter any surprises of a negative sort.

PS--Loved the way the AP worked in "prairie wolves." Good grief.

[friendly_iconoclast]

26. A gun might not even have been necessary with the proper hiking gear

i.e., situational awareness that "No, I am *not* guaranteed to be on top of the food chain when I am out and about
in the wilderness, and I must conduct myself accordingly."

I suspect even a stout hiking staff and the ability to use it might have saved her.

Hell, if one of the neighboring hikers had been in posession of a good hiking staff and the willingness to use it,
instead of the "call 911 and wait for the authorities to intervene" mentality, she might still be around.

[TPaine7]

14. But, but...

I have it on good authority from a Canadian who knows about these things that no reasonable, decent person would ever consider carrying a weapon in a public park (government employees excepted, of course). Reasonable, decent folks know how bad it is for public spaces to be "awash" in firearms--a fate far worse than death.

This woman did exactly what she should have--put her trust in government employees. It is far better to be reasonable, decent and dead than to be unreasonable, indecent and alive.

No one needs to go around carrying a firearm in public places if they are not government employees, specially permitted bodyguards or people who carry and deliver valuables for the wealthy.

Carrying a gun in a national park (or if you are too young, being accompanied by an armed companion) is simply uncivilized.

[OttavaKarhu]

15. Can't tell you how hard this hits me

Your ironic/satiric tone hits home--partly because of the topic, but also something doc03 said, about the Appalachian Trail.

But, TPaine7, you are precisely correct in identifying the nexus of it all: a dead victim is morally superior to the one who fights back and wins.

I am presently drafting two essays on this for publication. One involves my through-hiking the Appalachian Trail the year Randall Lee Smith slaughtered Bob Mountford and Susan Ramsay in Virginia. By the time it happened, they were about 100 miles up the line from me (they were moving much faster, being on the mission of getting back home to Maine). It's...really hard...to face all that, especially coming down the chute at the same time as that miserable situation at Richmond High (California).

I think what we need to grapple with as liberal or progressive or just plain thinking/caring people is that the amount of cognitive dissonance around guns that most liberals have is truly crushing. I'm trying to write about that as I experienced it in '81. It's hard to remember. I can't believe I ever would have gone on the AT without a sidearm, and risked being outed and punished, but at the same time refused to give up the right to protect myself. OK, I was just a kid, but a kid from a poor and violent ghetto. What was I trying to gain, in adopting the attitude of those upscale environmentalists/policymakers who'd rather see me dead for their good cause, than alive for mine?

The part you left out, Tom, is this: To carry, one must risk all manner of shame, violation, and attack. One must face being called a Redneck, a Nazi, a Klansman, a racist, a scaredy-cat, a baby killer, a vigilante, and many other things besides. One must face being outed and bashed.

And all from one's own supposed ideological allies.

The power dynamics here are just sickening. For it seems to me that "guns" are the "queer" of the liberal left. The category they get to bash at will.

So with all this cognitive dissonance and reaction formation, it's no wonder so many liberals just want guns to be "gone" so they don't ever have to think about it again. It's no wonder many of them develop a sort of mental illness around guns. I think of Dave Kopel's example, the person who's scared spitless of frogs. So they don't want anyone ever saying "frog," or liking frogs, or having a pet frog or a frog garden sculpture. They want to be assured that no one at their place of work will even have a picture of a frog, or allude to frogs.

There is just so much to unpack here. I am very grateful to all of you for your willingness to try to do so here on DU. My sense is that a lot more people are reading the more thoughtful discussions. It's not just the jerkkneed trolls.

[TPaine7]

17. Thanks, and a belated welcome to DU

I think what we need to grapple with as liberal or progressive or just plain thinking/caring people is that the amount of cognitive dissonance around guns that most liberals have is truly crushing...

Indeed. There are words for extreme cognitive dissonance centered about a physical object or a certain subject but those words must never be uttered here. I use the term "gun control reality distortion field" to signify the warping of reality.

The part you left out, Tom, is this: To carry, one must risk all manner of shame, violation, and attack. One must face being called a Redneck, a Nazi, a Klansman, a racist, a scaredy-cat, a baby killer, a vigilante, and many other things besides. One must face being outed and bashed.

Yes, being a black man who is a Nazi Klansman redneck coward vigilante barbarian with a microscopic penis has some advantages, however. I tend to look on the bright side and enjoy the shocked reactions as entertainment.

And all from one's own supposed ideological allies.

Yes, that is sad. Unfortunately, very few people do their own thinking. I try to prod them to into looking at the actual evidence for themselves. I try to show them a different perspective.

[GreenStormCloud]

19. Welcome to DU, and to the gungeon.

I believe that you will be a positive addition to our club.

Yes, we get called a lot of names down here, and subjected to some pretty scathing sarcasm for a certain poster who isn't present right now.

Like you, I believe that there are people who read this forum but don't post and become informed on how guns operate in the real world. I post to inform them, and to have some fun with the more extreme gun-grabbers. And sometimes, as happened today, I get informed myself.

I look forward to your contributions.

[TPaine7]

21. Ottava,

you should wear the abuse as a badge of honor. It is heaped upon you and the rest of us because logic, consistency and open-mindedness are self-defeating in an anti-gun fanatic.

Out of curiosity, what are the subjects of your essays and where do you plan to have them published? I think I might enjoy reading them.

[spin]

22. Yes, many liberals view gun owners as illiterate red-necks...

or worse.

But I live in Florida where most of the liberal Democrats own firearms.

Plus the weather is nice here year around.

[eqfan592]

23. Very well said!

It's horrible and sick, but it really does seem like many people around here attach more value to a dead, defenseless victim than to a armed, would-be victim who is very much alive.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. TP7, that is an important point.

The status of "Victim" is a coveted status to many. It brings with it a sense of entitlement and the feeling that the rest of society owes you something. If you are dead, then you may get the title of "Ultimate Victim".

We gunnies reject becoming victims so emphatically that we are completely willing and ready to reverse the roles on those who would physically attack us. And we do see organizations who refer to killed criminals as "victims of handgun violence", even if the killing was in self-defense. The CDC refuses to acknowledge self-defense and calls such justifiable homicides as being of "undetermined intent".

For some, dead victim really is morally superior to live self-defender who used violence to defend themselves.

[Hoopla Phil]

27. kick