Here's a story you won't see on gun web sites-CCW related

[Unrepentant Fenian]

Kid reaches into grandma's purse, Granny has a Concealed pistol Permit, kid grabs gun & shoots herself.
Please read and comment. P.S. Seems like this whole situation is completely legal!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap_on_re_us/sam_s_club_child_shot_8

[swag]

1. Relax.

I'm sure she was a member of a well-regulated militia.

[Unrepentant Fenian]

2. Amen !

At least Grandma wasn't "infringed"!

[pipoman]

6. No, but she is a magistrate judge n/t

[bossy22]

7. she was

she was a member of the unorganized militia according to United States Federal Law


thanks for playing

[sharesunited]

3. Happy now gun worshippers?

[AtheistCrusader]

4. No.

She lost control of her firearm, allowing a small child to obtain access to it. Pretty clear case of negligence. Unacceptable.

I sincerely hope this child recovers.

[pipoman]

5. Five-year old girl drowns in swimming pool

http://www.wishtv.com/global/story.asp?s=8406964

AVON, Ind. (WISH) - Hendricks County Sheriff's deputies are investigating the drowning death of a five-year old girl.

Authorities say relatives found Sheyenne Jenkins in a swimming pool behind a vacant house in the 8400 block of Ferguson Circle.

Happy now swimming pool worshipers?

Sounds pretty stupid, huh?

[sharesunited]

10. A swimming pool's purpose is not to kill. Big difference.

[aikoaiko]

12. What exactly is the difference to you? You swim?

[sharesunited]

13. Sure I swim. Do you kill? Or just reserving your "right" to?

[aikoaiko]

22. Kill? no. Defend myself with a gun? Yes.

Honestly, from my point of view, tragic accidents due to poor guardian supervision or no more or less tragic when with a gun, a car, fire, high falls, etc.

[rdenney]

24. Problem is shooting people in the back running away isnt self-defence.

but "law abiding citizen" do it all the time.

[benEzra]

25. If they did, they'd be charged with 2nd-degree murder.

A claim of self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning that you have to show that your conduct was in fact justified. Questionable cases tend to go against the claimant more often than not.

[maxidivine]

27. Yes, like that character in California

who was a congressman or mayor or something similiar, public servant of some kind and an avid gun control supporter, who had an illegal gun and shot a teen who tresspassed into his backyard to use his pool. Oh wait, he didn't follow Cali law, murdered a young person, and got off scot free on it. If anyone remembers his name I'd love to read up on it again, I can't remember many specifics.

[iverglas]

29. I hope somebody finds it soon

'Cause I can't, and I too would surely love to read up on it.

[pipoman]

45. Are you talking about Carl Rowan?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEED61530F933A05754C0A96E948260

LEAD: Carl T. Rowan, the syndicated columnist who shot and wounded an unarmed trespasser in the backyard of his Washington home last month, was charged in District of Columbia Superior Court Wednesday with possession of an unregistered gun and unregistered ammunition.

Carl T. Rowan, the syndicated columnist who shot and wounded an unarmed trespasser in the backyard of his Washington home last month, was charged in District of Columbia Superior Court Wednesday with possession of an unregistered gun and unregistered ammunition.

Mr. Rowan, a longtime advocate of tougher gun controls, is expected to be arraigned Monday, said his attorney, Raoul L. Carroll. He said his client would plead not guilty to the misdemeanor charges, which call for a maximum penalty of two years in jail and a $2,000 fine on conviction.

-snip-

Mr. Rowan said the shooting occurred after he heard noises in the backyard of his northwest Washington home sometime after midnight June 14. He said he called the police and then confronted Benjamin N. Smith, 18, of Chevy Chase, Md., at the swimming pool.

Mr. Smith, who was wounded in the wrist, and his companion, Laura A. Bachtman, 19, of Bethesda, Md., were arrested and charged with unlawful entry, a misdemeanor. Prosecutors later dropped the charges against the teen-agers in exchange for their doing 40 hours of community service work.

Not Cali nor a public servant but the rest fits.

[maxidivine]

46. 3/5, could have done worse!

thanks, that is the story I was thinking of.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Surely you have something to back this idiotic statement up.

Let's see the links. Just some shred of evidence to back up this load of crap.

David

[rdenney]

43. Sure I do. Its the thread called :"Texas Joe Horn: "Law-Abiding", Backshooting, Self-defense Expert"

Have fun reading about a confirmed Law-abiding gun packing killer caught on a 911 tape planning to kill two men who were not a threat to him, until he made it so.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. So one case is law abiding gun owners doing it all the time.

So again a shred of evidence that law abiding gun owners shoot people who are fleeing the scene of a crime all the time. If it happens as frequently as you state it shouldn't be hard to come up with say an occurence a week, that should keep down the work load, since you've obviously got thousands of cases to sift through.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. My guns don't kill anything excepts cans, golf balls and paper targets.

Sorry to bother you with the facts.

David

[sharesunited]

18. Stick to video games. And sniff match fumes for your sulphur fix.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Video games can contribute to the misuse of guns.

People playing video games don't see the damage that even the smallest projectiles can cause. Target shooting and plinking can at least give you a healthy respect for a firearms capabilities.


David

[beevul]

23. Unless you are saying...

Unless you are saying that guns are sold for the purpose of misuse, which you are entirely free to do, what exactly is your point?

Lots of things can kill contrary to their legal purpose or use.

[benEzra]

26. Pools apparently do a better job killing kids than guns do...

A swimming pool's purpose is not to kill. Big difference.

Pools apparently do a better job killing kids than guns do, even if you throw in homicides. But the accident stats are particularly striking, at least if you buy into the guns-in-the-home-are-terribly-dangerous meme:


Deaths Due to Unintentional Injuries, 2000 (Estimates)
(from National Safety Council, Injury Facts, 2001 Edition, pp. 8-9, 84, via GunCite)

Accident Type.....................Age............Age
..................................0-4...........5-14

TOTAL...........................2,700..........2,700
All Automobile....................900..........1,500
Drowning..........................450............350
Fires, burns......................400............260
Pedestrian........................250............300
Suffocation by ingested object....100.............20
Falls..............................70.............70
Poisoning by solids, liquids.......60.............40
Firearms...........................20.............60
Poisoning by gases, vapors.........10.............10
All other causes..................700............400

And when you consider that far more homes contain guns than contain swimming pools, and that a disproportionate number of child gun-accident deaths occur in criminal households, the disparity is even more striking.

One shouldn't let a 4-year-old play with a loaded gun any more than you should let that 4-year-old play unsupervised around a pool; the OP is a good example why. But responsibly keeping guns in your home--or responsible carry of same--is not a danger to your children..

FWIW, our household has never had a close call with a gun. We have had a close call with our son falling into a lake, even though adults were with him. (And yes, I'd love to have a backyard pool, but I'd want good gates around it, and I'd teach my kids to swim.)

[pipoman]

30. Far less swimming pools in this country

than guns yet far more children die in them due to poor adult supervision. If you are really concerned about saving children you will advocate bans on private swimming pools.

[pipoman]

31. I have said before

that I don't know how many of the drownings occur in private swimming pools. I just found these figures:

http://www.westcov.org/kids/drown.html

Drowning Threat

* In California, drowning is a leading cause of accidental death for children one through four years age.
* Children drown in pools, spas, buckets, toilets and bathtubs. A child can drown in as little as two inches of water.
* A child can drown in less time than it takes to answer the telephone.
* 67% of all drowning deaths occur in their own backyard pool, spa or hot tub.
* The majority of drowning incidents occur while the caretaker assumed the child was safely indoors.
* 25% of all children who have drowned or nearly drowned have had swimming lessons. The risk of a drowning or near drowning is highest during the first six months a family has a pool.
* For every drowning, an additional five near drowning cases are treated in the emergency room. Irreversible brain damage occurs in 3 to 5 minutes.
* In California there are more than 330 people with irreversible brain damage because of near drowning incidents. Of this total more than 75 people are currently hospitalized at a cost of $120,000 per year for life.
* Drowning is a silent killer. The victims don't cry for help. They are not getting enough air to breathe, so they don't have the extra air needed to call for help.

[benEzra]

9. No. But I see *you're* in high glee. (n/t)

[SteveM]

20. Sounds like you're the one with a "fire down below." (nt)

[benEzra]

8. Ummm, yes you will...

There's already a thread on THR about it. Consensus is, the grandmother was irresponsible for leaving the gun in a purse in the child's reach; loose in a purse is a lousy way to carry a handgun. On-body carry is best, but if you have to do off-body carry, at least get a purse with a holster.

It is legal to carry a gun (with a state-issued license) in all but 2 states. It is most assuredly NOT legal in most states to let a 4-year-old play with it and shoot herself. In Florida, the grandmother would be chargeable with a felony. It would be a crime here in NC as well, though I'm not sure what the laws in SC are.

[aikoaiko]

11. Actually, the gun board I frequent came down pretty hard on Grandmama.

In the end, its as tragic as any accidental and completely preventable childs death.

[slackmaster]

15. Except in this case, there has been no death

Details...

[aikoaiko]

21. whoops, you're right. I don't where I got that.

But still, the this near or potentially fatal accident is tragic like any other with children.

[iverglas]

40. it's a common error

It must just have something to do with the reflex in the modern human mind, which sees "shot" and hears "killed".

You know, the way the mind sees "fell down" and hears "died", or reads "went swimming" and hears "drowned", or reads "got punched" and hears "bled to death".

That sort of thing. Perfectly natural.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Same.

I don't know of anyone who saw this as 'acceptable'. It also made the rounds of every private gun board I'm a member of pretty quickly, so the OP's premise is not accurate.

[slackmaster]

14. Well, your premise is dead wrong

The gun boards are all slamming Grandma for not keeping her weapon under proper control.

P.S. Seems like this whole situation is completely legal!

I doubt it.

[jody]

28. Obviously you've never visited "gun web sites-CCW related" or you would not make such a ridiculous

assertion.

Ignorance is a curable disease but stupidity is a terminal illness.

I wish you the very best. :hi:

[iverglas]

32. uh ... jody ...

"Here's a story you won't see on gun web sites-CCW related"

That's:
Here's a story you won't see on gun web sites
- a story that's CCW related / this post is CCW related

Sometimes it's all too apparent why I suffer a net hair loss when I've been around here too long.

[benEzra]

33. This story is big today on all the gun sites I frequent.

Criticism of off-body carry in general, and of the negligence of leaving the gun in the child's reach, are the two dominant themes.

[jody]

34. Darn you benEzra, there you go again bringing facts to a rant. n/t

[iverglas]

37. so I gather

I was commenting on the bizarre reading of the subject line by jody.

[WWFZD]

35. Join the club

"Sometimes it's all too apparent why I suffer a net hair loss when I've been around here too long"

Although mine started long before this joint ever existed.

[iverglas]

38. well, mine is admittedly independent

I took the scissors and chopped off 6 inches on the weekend. Was considering aiming for below the waist again one more time before it goes grey, but actually the grey it went when I was 21 is still about all there is, so I figure there's time.

When I was 21, I was standing at a bus stop with one of my fellow criminology researchers, both of us with waist-length hair, and there was a breeze and my hair was flapping in it, and she suddenly pointed at the side of my face and said WHAT'S THAT?? I thought it must be spiders. It was grey hair.

Distinguished at a young age, moi.

[WWFZD]

44. Distinguished is a good choice in words, for you.

I'm just plain bald. And it started at 22, by 24 all gone.

[WWFZD]

36. Exactly what I was thinking

Good people use tools for good purposes and bad people use the same tools for evil, we expect no less, but there's nothing like a misguided fool to foul it up for everybody. I have neither the time nor the inclination to review most of the pro-CCW sites out there but I have no doubt that you are correct in your assumption.

[iverglas]

41. a culture of morons

Concealed weapons permit holders in South Carolina are not allowed to carry weapons into buildings that prohibit it, or into government buildings, schools and daycare facilities, among other places.

The Sam's Club store does not have a sign prohibiting guns inside.

Damned lucky the kid only shot herself. There might be damages to pay, otherwise.

But hell, some public-spirited CCW type would undoubtedly have been able to take the kid out before she killed too many. So Sam won't be wanting to ban firearms from its stores, I'm sure.

I've had a junior management trainee follow me around the produce department wagging fingers at me because I've left my shopping cart with my purse in it to go grab bananas. Since said junior management trainee was about 1/2.5 my age, and my purse had no cash in it (that's what pockets are for, and I have no idea why I even had a purse with me grocery shopping), and my purse is none of store management's business, I spoke sharply to him.

But lo, a whole new reason for stores to assign annoying young men to follow women around wagging fingers at them if they leave their purses unattended. Imagine the joy a purse thief would have, to find not just an old age pension cheque, but a spiffy handgun, in the purse s/he had just lifted from granny's cart.

These things beggar belief. They really do.

[iverglas]

42. canuckistanian reactions

Too good not to share.

http://forum.canucks.com/lofiversion/index.php/t202145.html

I'm amazed the she hadn't completed her gun safety course, I mean she IS 4 and an American.

BUT!
"If I didn’t have this gun, the King of England could just walk in here any time he wants, and start shoving you around."

Unless you're expecting to fight for the last barrel-size drum of mayonnaise or 800-pack of tampons, why would you ever bring a loaded, unsecured gun somewhere AND have the safety off AND have it anywhere near a kid?

"From my cold, dead hands!"
Alright!

She's law and order, she's firm behind family," friend Mickey Williams said.
"I know a lot of people that tote guns, they got licence to tote guns, but it could easily happen to one of them," friend Rickey Williams said.
LOLSOUTHCAROLINA
Something tells me Grandma is re-evaluating her priorities.

Suicide is illegal
The child should be charged with attempted murder of herself
Think of all the concealed weapons next time you're at Wal-Mart in Bellingham
I knew a girl in Seattle who carried legally because she was getting hang-up phone calls
creeped me out even if she was hot

in america this is known as gun control or lack of. the child did not have propper control of the gun. so in the eyes of america, this is the childs fault and not the u.s. congress.

the kid was probably an emo, did she have a stupid looking haircut?

Okay, that last one was just left field.

And a refreshing bit of honesty from the locals:

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8451232

"I know a lot of people that tote guns, they got licence to tote guns, but it could easily happen to one of them," friend Rickey Williams said.

[benEzra]

48. It could IF you carry off-body, and leave your gun where a child can play with it.

"I know a lot of people that tote guns, they got licence to tote guns, but it could easily happen to one of them," friend Rickey Williams said.

It could IF you carry off-body, leave your gun where a child can play with it, and then turn your back for a while. Otherwise, not so much...

[iverglas]

49. better tell Rickey, eh?

He says it could, and it apparently does.

[benEzra]

50. "Rickey" doesn't carry; he says he knows of people who "got licence to tote guns."

It happened to this woman, so it has happened at least once---to someone who carried off-body, and left her gun in the reach of a child, and then turned her back for a while.

And yes, if you carry off-body, and leave your gun in the reach of a 4-year-old, and turn your back for a while, it could happen to you as well.

[iverglas]

51. I have no idea whether Rickey carries

I merely suggest that if there is commenting to be done on what Rickey said, it be directed to Rickey.

[benEzra]

52. Er, "Rickey" didn't post any comments on this thread; you did.

If you posted his comments here, then it would seem to make sense to respond to those comments here, no? That's sort of what a "discussion forum" is for, unless you thought it was merely to rack up notches on the keyboard.

[iverglas]

53. yeesh, that one went over your head, dinnit?

Here's what a notch on the keyboard looks like:

[benEzra]

54. Why am I not surprised... (n/t)