China to test it's "artificial sun"

[Virginia Dare]

The first plasma discharge from China's experimental advanced superconducting research center -- the so-called "artificial sun" -- is set to occur next month.

The discharge, expected about Aug. 15, will be conducted at Science Island in Hefei, in east China's Anhui Province, the Peoples Daily reported Monday.

Scientists told the newspaper a successful test will mean the world's first nuclear fusion device of its kind will be ready to go into actual operation, the newspaper said.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060724-065917-5783r


I guess if they don't blow up the rest of the world in the process of creating this thing, it might turn out to be good. :shrug:

[phantom power]

1. Nobody is blowing *anything* up with that.

It's a plasma fusion test-bed, not an H-bomb.

[Virginia Dare]

2. Can you educate me on this?

why are people supposedly concerned over this--or is it just propaganda?

[phantom power]

4. It appears to be generic worry over anything involving radiation...

Fusion in any form releases radiation, and so while it's operating you definitely have to make sure the surroundings are shielded somehow. However, in the event of a failure of the system, fusion halts. The worst possible scenario I can imagine would be somehow losing plasma containment, which might do some damage to the equipment, and I suppose it might conceivably release deuterium or tritium, depending on what they're using.

At any rate, these devices don't "explode" under any circumstances.

Fine print: I'm a programmer, so my comments are mostly based on reading the occasional Scientific American article.

[midnight armadillo]

5. IAMNAPP

(I am not a plasma physicist), but I am a physicist, and as far as I know you're correct here. If you ruin the plasma containment system, you kill the plasma, and the biggest problem would be fires involving some radioactive materials.

Seems like Western observers are just pissy that the Chinese may make fusion work sooner than them. We should remember that China was the world's technological leader for most of human history, the exception being the last 200 years or so.

[Virginia Dare]

6. 5 FT concrete walls with 3 ft thick roof ought to contain

it I would think. These things are way over my head, but I know we should all probably understand them on some level. Thanks for the info.

[bananas]

7. More info at the People's Daily newspaper in China

There's no danger of a radioactive fallout cloud like Chernobyl.
I'd guess that the main concern would be that it gets too hot and melts all that expensive equipment.
There's an entry in wiki describing the facility with links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAST


http://english.people.com.cn/200607/26/eng20060726_286956.html

UPDATED: 16:54, July 26, 2006
Super-heated fusion experiment to reach 100 million degrees

Chinese scientists plan to test fire the world's most powerful experimental fusion reactor hoping its fuel will reach a critical mass of 100 million degrees Celsius and begin to give off more energy than it consumes.
...
With support of the National Mega-Project of Science Research, the Institute of Plasma Physics under the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) spent eight years and 200 million yuan (25 million U.S. dollars) on building the experimental reactor.
...
"If the experiment succeeds, EAST will become the first non-circular steady-state experimental plasma device in operation, and we will lead all our competitors by at least a decade," said Li Jiangang, who heads the CAS institute.

The experiment is being conducted in collaboration with the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) which is an international program dedicated to experiments in thermonuclear fusion. In 2003, China joined ITER which was originally initiated by the United States and Russia in the 1980s. ITER also runs a fusion reactor based in Russia which is four-times the size of EAST.
...
Source: Xinhua

[mccoyn]

8. I'm guessing because of its name.

Having an artificial sun on earth sounds like something that could get out of hand.

It won't of course, the sun has access to way more fuel than this thing will.

[Options Remain]

3. Its the cleansing fire of the Rapture

it all makes sense now.

:hide:

[adarling]

9. would be amazing if it worked

we need something like this now.

[Dead_Parrot]

12. I don't think "Now" is an option, sadly.

I think the article is playing things up a bit: My guess is they're catching up in getting a working tokamak - which will run fusion, and put out more energy than goes in while it's running, but doesn't make it's own fuel. That's the killer at the moment (the only source is from fission reactors) and whilst there are lots of ideas on how to resolve it, none are anywhere near working.

I'm more optimistic than NNadir on fusion, but it's going to be 30-40 years before we see commercial production, and we don't have that much time left.

[patricia92243]

10. Just think - if Gore had gotten to take his place as President - that

would US making history - not the CHinese. Sigh!

Instead we have a dip-wad that doesn't believe in science.

[NNadir]

11. This system, if it works, will depend on access to tritium.

There is not enough tritium on the planet to operate a small commercial fusion reactor for more than six months.

http://fire.pppl.gov/fesac_dp_ts_willms.pdf

There is no magical new technology that will save the day. The basic sources of commercially available primary energy are already known. They are solar in all of its forms (hydroelectric, solar PV, wind, solar thermal, etc), geothermal, fossil, and nuclear fission. Note that geothermal energy is nuclear in it's primary source, and fossil is stored solar energy.

The matter thus comes down to getting the most out of the existing forms of primary energy without committing international suicide.

To a limited extent, the solar based primary energy forms can be expanded, and should be expanded, but their record, wind excepted, despite all the hoopla, has demonstrated their limits rather than their broad applicability.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/NNadir/19

That leaves nuclear fission.

It may be, should we survive global climate change, there will be enough tritium as a side product of the fission industry - particularly if the use of CANDU reactors is expanded as it should be - but even if this Chinese reactor works, it's not really a "breakthrough."

The sensible approach is, like the guys in the Apollo 13 movie, is to look at the tools that are in the spaceship now, and not the tools we wish we had.

It is argued at some presitigious institutions - the institution in question in this case being Princeton - that the tools we have may be enough:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/NNadir/15

Whether this is the case can only be proved, however, through action.

[Odin2005]

13. The faster SOMEONE perfects Fusion power the better.

Fusion is the ULTIMATE energy source. Mmmmm, limitless CLEAN energy...