I need some honest family advice regarding splitting holidays.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Okay, serious, non-Chuggo related talk here. I figure the Lounge is a good place to get some good brainstorming, and I need people's serious advice. I'm not in the mood for sarcastic answers, either.

One thing to keep in mind through all of this is that I am not a confrontational sort when it comes to my wife. It's just not in my nature. I love her and I don't like to argue with her. And sometimes I think that hurts me more than it should, but it just is how I am.

So here's the situation. My parents live 5 hours away. (They used to live 20 hours away). My in-laws live 2 minutes away. They volunteer to watch our 22 month old daughter 5 days a week to save us from having to pay for day care. My wife sees them every day, and we are over at their house every Sunday for dinner. Which is all fine, I don't mind the fact that we do that.

However, what does concern me is the holiday situation and my wife's seeming lack of desire or motivation to have us go visit my parents more often. So far this year I've only managed to go up to see my parents twice; they've come down and visited us 4 or 5 times. We will be going after Christmas but like last year, the actual Christmas holiday will belong to my in-laws. Thanksgiving this year will also be with my in-laws. Last year my parents came down for Thanksgiving, but in the 5 years we've been married we've yet to go to their house for Thanksgiving together (I've gone up once by myself). We've never both gone up for actual Christmas.

I want to raise the issue of splitting holidays to my wife, but I know there will be some resistance. And I think I'm willing to be quite reasonable with this. I'm happy with once every three years at my parent's house for each holiday, plus in the years that I think we can go up for Christmas, we'll spend Thanksgiving at her parents, and visa versa. The problem is, my mother-in-law is an extremely dominating personality (and a bit of a crazy Republican, to boot, but I try to overlook that), and unfortunately, I think some of it rubs off on her daughter. So I know that when I raise the issue, especially for Christmas, there's going to be resistance.

I'm even willing to bend even further for Christmas, seeing that my family's celebration and gift opening has always been on Christmas Eve as per Ukranian tradition. So plausibly, we could go up to my parents, spend Christmas Eve with them, then leave early the next morning and be back at her in-laws for Christmas dinner. But I know there will be problems because she'll complain that she'll be missing out on Christmas morning and her family's Christmas morning tradition. And that she'll have to spend it in the car and how she hates long car trips.

But I want to breach the subject now rather than later and have it just eat me up and make me bitter and resentful at family functions.

So I'm reaching out for advice. Anyone ever been in a similar situation? Anyone have a spouse or significant other they love but are rather stubborn on these subjects? Feel free to let me know. You can even PM if you'd rather, but I'm reaching out for advice.

[peacefreak]

1. Wow. You're in a tough spot.

Have you ever thought about starting your own holiday traditions? Wouldn't your little one want to wake up in her house & find her presents under HER tree?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. We do, actually.

But then right after that, it's always over to the in-laws for their Christmas morning tradition. And they will always be 2 minutes away, no matter what. And my parents will be 5 hours away, no matter what. Guess who wins in that scenario?

[yawnmaster]

22. thats a tough one. Some of my fond memories are on Christmas morning...

after opening gifts, just playing with no worries the entire day...
Your in-laws had to start their Christmas morning tradition at some point in the past.
When do you get to start yours? It should be when the kids are young.
It is tough to keep family unity and still make the decision to stay home Christmas day - perhaps an impossibility.

You could move 10 hours away from both sets of parents! j/k (or am I?)

Really wishing you good luck.

[Rosie1223]

2. I would recommend you start your own traditions

All that traveling with a 2 year old -- yuck. Tell all the grandparents that Santa is going to come to the Carcetti house this year and you will be open to visiting their houses later. Thats what we did when our kids were little -- Christmas morning at our house and then afternoon to MIL's. (Now they sleep 'til noon haha) We would visit my parents (who lived a greater distance away) the first weekend after Christmas.

You could start alternating Thanksgiving too.

Good Luck!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. I just wish the distance was closer than 5 hours.

Growing up for us it was easy--we'd have the Ukrainian Christmas Eve at our house with my Ukrainian grandmother staying with us, then the next day we'd have Christmas dinner with my grandparents from my dad's side, who only lived 1 1/2 hours away.

Christmas morning was never a big deal for us, other than stocking stuffers, but I never felt deprived about it.

[Rosie1223]

6. Thankfully, my parents were never big on having to celebrate the holiday on the exact day.

MIL, on the other hand, probably still resents us not spending the night Christmas eve. And my oldest is 21.

[havocmom]

5. There are ways to learn constructive, honest, assertive but non-aggressive communication

I SERIOUSLY recommend you look for a class, workshop, support group, or a good book and trusted friend to help you learn. Without the ability to communicate honestly with your wife, you are likely heading for trouble. Yes, trying to avoid any confrontation will reliably bring it on despite our best efforts. Time and batches of seething, small resentments are poison.

This is obviously an important issue with you, and you are well within reason for that being the case. Fair is fair, and partners should work toward fair at least most of the time. Your needs/wishes are just as important as hers and her folks'.

Learn to communicate well. You can do it! You probably can't learn (and make it become a good habit) by this holiday season, but set a goal and get there by next year. To not do so is going to lead to a building of resentment which will probably not do your marriage any good. Work on YOU so you can help her see what you need so the two of you can find fair solutions together. You both become stronger people and probably a stronger couple for the effort.

As for this year, well, it's a bit late to try and change things. BUT: is it possible for the two of you to begin building holiday traditions within your own household? Having a child of 22 months seems like a good time to start! She needs to grow up with her own memories of her own family's traditions! This would be a great year to start giving those to her (and you & your wife, also) Have one holiday at your own place, if at all possible. Even if your place is small, it can be a festive and memory building event.

Try it.

And have a very happy holiday season! Kiss that special woman and sweet child for all your DU fans!

[elehhhhna]

7. Do Christmas Day at your house -- voila! Your parents can sleep over or get a room

for Christmas Eve.

btw, it is your responsibility to maintain, manage and generally keep alive your relationship with your parents. Not attacking you here -- I know lots of men who use the wife's "seeming lack of desire or motivation to have us go visit my parents more often." as an excuse.

They're your parents, guys. Don't blame the wife for not maintaining a relationship you don't have in the first place.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. That would work except....

....my parent's traditional Ukrainian Christmas Eve meal involves a lot of preparation, I mean 1-2 weeks worth of cooking. And frankly, no one except my mom would do the meal justice, so I wouldn't even imagine trying to cook it myself. And I would imagine the logistics of having to transport the entire meal 5 hours down would be more trouble than its worth.

[elehhhhna]

9. so talk to mom about her just making a few dishes .. y'all should discuss this!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. Frankly, that just wouldn't be the same.

As it is, we have a scaled down Christmas Eve dinner when we all visit after Christmas. But constantly resorting to that is putting my parents at a second class level to her parents when it comes to the holidays, and I'm just not going to do that.

[havocmom]

11. Frankly, if you are not willing to look past 'the same' you do not want a solution

Seems more like you want passive aggressive complaining until somebody agrees with you and demonstrates the resentment toward your wife you don't seem to be honest enough to deal with.

Have a happy holiday season anyway.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

12. All I'm saying is that is more complicated than what you might think.

And thanks for the unsolicited psychoanalyzing.

[Bunny]

15. I agree with havocmom. It's really NOT that complicated.

One year, you do Thanksgiving at her parents, and Christmas Eve/Christmas Day at your parents. The next year you reverse that. If you can't discuss something this simple with your wife, I think you have a marital problem. You can call that 'psychoanalyzing' all you want, doesn't diminish the validity of it.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. It's actually simple.

Simple to articulate that is -- the hard part is the work it takes to implement the solution.

You and your wife need to have a long discussion AFTER this set of holidays is over, with each of you laying out priorities and defending them, then discussing tradeoffs until you reach an agreement. Otherwise one of you will continue to be disappointed.

FWIW, it's rarely possible to hold onto both families' celebration rites after marriage and it's a common source of friction around the holidays. You'll both lose some traditions and hold on to others, but at least it will be resolved. In a few years things may change again and that's okay too.

[Rosie1223]

14. There's no call for that

Combining holiday traditions is many times difficult for new couples. Throw some grandchildren in the mix and it gets even harder.

[MichiganVote]

24. The cooking part is up to your mom isn't it?

This isn't something that has come up sudden. Sounds like everyone has been comfortable but you. Maybe its time for any kind of change and that can be good.

So risk it, talk to wife, talk to parents, talk to in-laws. People may just not realize you're feeling the need for some of your blood.

Talk to people. Today. Now. As soon as possible.

[Corgigal]

13. My belief is

children should be at their own homes from Christmas, others should come to them. If they want to witness them waking up and watching them open gifts then they can either spend the night or get up very early in the morning. It's up to them.

What about Thanksgiving at the in-laws, Christmas at your home and New Years day at your parents.

[ChickMagic]

17. I feel for you. That's tough.

What we do, and it works well at Christmas, is we travel the 2 hours to my sister's house on Christmas Eve. We open presents, eat buffet style, and generally have a good time. They are west of us. On Christmas Day, we travel the 3 hours to my in-law's house. That seems to satisfy everyone.

Thanksgiving is different. We travel the 2 hours west early since my elderly, aling dad will be there early. We stay a little while, like an hour or two, then we travel the 5 hours from there to the in-laws. We stay a long time there because the food is soooo much better than my sister's. She cooks weird stuff. Anyway, we cover everyone, but we're pretty exhausted.

In your case, can you go to your in-laws early and stay for an hour or two and then head out to your folks house?
Or would that cause a problem?

[susanr516]

18. Yes, I have

We live in the same town as my in-laws; my parents (now deceased) lived 400 miles away. We split the holidays. Thanksgiving with my parents, Christmas with his, then vice-versa. Worked out well for years.

[jobycom]

19. I think you're seeing all the important points.

From your OP and the replies and responses below, I think you've got everyone's feelings in perspective, and I think it's good that you are trying not upset anyone's traditions. It's easy for the younger generation to override the feelings of the older one in this situation, and frankly I think you're doing the right thing by worrying about each person.

Now, you know what you have to do. You have to talk about it with your spouse. If you explain it as well as you did to us, and let her know that you are concerned about upsetting anyone's traditions and show that you have everyone's feelings in perspective, maybe it will go better than you think. If she loves you the way you obviously love her, she'll try to understand, and if you are as non-confrontational as you are implying her, just your bringing it up to her will convince her it's important to you.

You have to work it out with her or you will come to resent her, and that will tarnish the marriage, whether it harms it noticably or not. And it won't be fair to her, because you will be harboring a resentment without giving her the chance to overcome that resentment. You should give her the chance. It's possibly that no matter how much she loves you and how decent a person she is, she still will absolutely refuse to compromise one bit--either she'll just say no, or she'll list all the reasonable objections until you say "It was a weak idea anyway." In that case you have a marital dischord you have to work out, but honestly, you have one now over this issue, even if you are the only one aware of it. So, you need to firmly and lovingly say "We have to work out some way that we can see my parents on Christmas day at least sometimes." Negotiate, compromise, but let her know you can't back down on that point. If she's used to getting her way, she may fight you, but she will have trouble saying you don't have a reasonable point. If you stick to your point, you can even agree when she says "But it's easier this way, and harder that way, we can do separate Christmases, etc," and still say "I know, but my parents are aging, they have their traditions--my traditions, too--and I want to honor them at least now and then. We have to find a way."

And if you can't do all that, then you have to convince yourself to stop wanting it. She's your family now, and what you two decide together is what you need to be convinced is the best for your family. You owe her that much. And if you are silent on what you want, then you have agreed with her.

That's my two cents. None of that is meant as an order, just my opinion of a possible solution. :) Good luck on it, whatever you do. Life is full of these compromises, so don't let any of us convince you to go against what you think is best for your family, and for you. Marriages don't have a template that everyone has to use, they are each pasted together from the patterns and scraps both of you bring from your own life, and those are the only patterns and scraps that matter. Make your quilt beautiful! (Okay, that last line was mostly me picking on my own shark-jumping metaphors at the end, but you get the idea.).

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. i am the stubborn one so maybe, i should give you my perspective and the compromises we have come to

firstly, i am much closer to my family thank lisa is to hers. i would not spend thanksgiving away from them if i were in the same country. on the other hand, i am fine going seperate ways. lisa doesnt really care to go to her family things but can be bullied into them by her mother. she unlike me, is NOT fine having us go our seperate ways. so finally, we decided thanksgiving belonged to us. both sets of parents are invited. only my parents actually ever make it.

chrismas, well i am not christian but i do have a baby brother and we have a finite number of years before he doesnt care for christmas and christmas gifts. christmas eve we go to her parents. stay over. leave on christmas day. again, i would be fine if she stayed with them on christmas as long as i went back to my baby brother.

i guess you need to be firm about what you think is fair. even if you dont like to argue. its not just you, its your family too.

[msanthrope]

21. I think you should speak up about a more equitable split.

I think it's reasonable to alternate Christmas. One year, you do the whole shebang at your parents, the next, at hers. Same thing with Thanksgiving.

You should bring this up, however, at a non-holiday stress time, perhaps in January.

You should also consider visiting your parents more during the year, even if this means going by yourself.

Good luck. It is important to you, and you should do what you think it right to maintain the relationship with your parents.

[Chan790]

23. 5 hours whereabouts...

I mean I know you're in FL but it's a big state...if you're in Miami, 5 hours is Jacksonville. If you're in Jacksonville, 5 hours is Charleston or Birmingham. If you're in Orlando, 5 hours is Atlanta or Savannah. If you're in Pensacola, 5 hours will take you almost to Houston. I guess I'm asking how rough of a 5 hours is it?

One idea and I don't know if this works either logistically or even in terms of everybody's happiness...is it possible to either take transit (i.e. Amtrak) or drive during the overnight in order to be able to do both for Christmas, then take a post-dinner nap? (I assume you eat Christmas dinner in the afternoon like I do...if you eat it in the evening, take the nap before dinner. Kids are resiliant, they'll sleep anywhere (the car or the train. Hell, I'm a finicky sleeper and I sleep like a baby on the train.)...it's more if you and/or the wife can handle that kind of sleep-deprivation (because logically, you're talking about 30+ hours of no sleep unless you stay in bed until Noonish before the drive/ride to your parents or split the drivetime, one drives while the other naps.

[noamnety]

25. As a child

the only holidays I really felt comfortable at were the ones at our own house. I never especially liked being a kid at someone else's house amidst a bunch of their adult conversation without a chance to retreat to my own space occasionally.

It sounds like your strong holiday attachments are related to traditions formed in your home when you were a child. It sounds like your wife's idea of holidays revolve around being in her home.

I would try to create the same for your child, so that their traditions are of you guys preparing for the holidays in your own home in whatever way you do, instead of traveling somewhere else where everything is just presented to them as a done deal, like they are a tourist instead of a full participant. I really think the strongest sense of family is going to come from you and your partner creating your own joint tradition, instead of either spouse having to be the guest at the others' family event that has no ties to your own traditions.

[debbierlus]

26. It sounds like you have let her dominate situations rather then deal with her 'resistance'...

What does that mean resistance?

Will she get angry? Will she her emotional state to manipulate you to do as she wants?

Sounds like you have let fester a pretty dysfunctional dynamic where you give in for the sake of peace, try to pretend it doesn't bother you and then, go along to get along.

Well, here is my best advice.

You can't control your wife's reaction. You aren't responsible for her emotions. You have the right to assert yourself and your wishes and to expect some form of fair compromise. This is not as easy as it sounds. I tried to get my needs met in a passive aggressive way with my husband for the longest time because I was afraid of his reaction (and fearful of negative reaactions and confrotation in general, I was never brought up to feel safe confronting someone when I was young, as I was met with anger). This never worked out well, the 'best' that would happen would be he would resentfully go along with something.

Finally, I realized that I had to assert my needs or bust. So, I did. I wouldn't put up with it. And, he knew it.

Yes. He got angry. I felt very uncomfortable. But, it was also empowering. I learned to state my needs upfront. And, I learned to stop being so passive aggressive. It wasn't easy. It took years for the both of us to learn to give and take and we still fall down sometimes. But, it is a zillion times better then when I danced around his anger and let my fear be the excuse for not asserting my needs. We both had to do counseling (seperate).

The holidays just bring out the on-going dynamics in a relationship, that is why they are such a explosive time. My husband never wanted to go to any family gatherings period (his family lives 1200 miles away, and we don't have the resouces for travel), so he doesn't see them (although he knows he always has the choice to visit alone, if he wants, there is enough money for that). Since we started compromising, he celebrates Thanksgiving with my family with no complaints and he is happy to have whomever wants to come over our house on Christmas eve for a big celebration. He just wants to be able to spend Christmas day home. So, I go to my sisters with our daughter and he spends the day blissfully pigging out and laying around doing nothing. New Year's is open for whatever.

It took a few years to come to a peaceful resolution for the holidays. And, everything else.

[EndersDame]

27. Do your parents and inlaws get along?

if so Host the Thanksgiving dinner at your casa

[Ishka Kibble]

28. Try this.

Show your wife what you wrote here. If you think it's a good idea, show her the responses, too.

You two need to start communicating. You would accomplish a great deal more by addressing the issue with your wife than with DU members in the Lounge. Your reluctance to "confront" her is eating away at you and will turn into a kind of anger that will ultimately do harm to everything and everyone.

Marriage is about compromise on the part of both parties.