Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The BlueIris Semi-Nightly Poetry Break, 1/3/08

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:58 PM
Original message
The BlueIris Semi-Nightly Poetry Break, 1/3/08
"The Sign of Saturn"

Sometimes my daughter looks at me with an
amber black look, like my father
about to pass out from disgust, and I remember
she was born under the sign of Saturn,
the father who ate his children. Sometimes
the dark, silent back of her head
reminds me of him unconscious on the couch
every night, his face turned away.
Sometimes I hear her talking to her brother
with that coldness that passed for reason in him,
that anger hardened by will, and when she rages
into her room and slams the door,
I can see his vast, blank back
when he passed out to get away from us
and lay while the burboun turned, in his brain,
to coal. Sometimes I see that coal
ignite in her eyes. As I talk to her,
trying to pursuade her toward the human, her little
clear face tilts, as if she can
not hear me, as if she were listening
to the blood in her own ear, instead,
her grandfather's voice.

—Sharon Olds
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. My dear BlueIris!
Whew, some family issues?

Very colorful, very evocative...

Glad my daughters never talked like that to me, or acted that way either...:scared:

Thank you...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The questions regarding "family" and the works of Sharon Olds are many.
Twenty some odd years ago, Olds made a vow never to speak publicly about her family. She often encounters people who don't "get" that the speakers in her poems are not supposed to be representative of her own life experiences...or, so she claims. (I have a lot of issues with the way Olds has addressed the questions about what relationship, if any, exists between her art and her personal life.) She calls what she has written "apparently personal poetry," and has intimated that it has no literal connection to her personal experiences.

Here's one interview which sums up what is still (I believe) Olds' official position on the subject:

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/m_r/olds/excerpt.htm

You don’t talk about your family at all in public, yet your poems seem to be a lot about them. What is the distinction?

I guess I'm trying to lead two lives, the life of art and the life of life, and to keep them as separate as possible from each other. Emily Dickinson talks somewhere about the "someone" in her poems. That seems to me a useful way to think about it.


I thought when Robert Lowell wrote the poems in The Dolphin about his former wife and daughter, quoting verbatim from their letters, for instance, that he had cleared the way for almost anything.

Those are not, for me, his strongest poems. And I would wonder, when does the poet ask the bearers of the names about the appearance of the names in the poems?

This is part of what I have come to think of as the spectrum of loyalty and betrayal. On the loyalty side is silence, and out toward this end of the spectrum is absolute silence, the poems not written, the thoughts not even thought, a kind of spiritual suicide of the writer and, perhaps, therefore, in a way, of a part of the culture. On the other side of the spectrum is song, and out at the far end perhaps very little consideration for other people's privacy—even, at the extreme, a kind of destructiveness or spiritual murder. The way we learn our place on the spectrum seems to be the usual way of learning—by making mistakes.


Where do you fit on the spectrum?

Names are a big concern for me and for a lot of poets, I think, perhaps especially children's names. I have gone back and taken names out of the next printings of two books. Another concern is for clarity. I discovered, from an introduction at a reading, for instance, that a poem of mine, "What if God," which I had thought to be partly metaphorical, had been read by at least one reader as completely literal. Understandably, in a writer who is often apparently literal. So I rewrote it for the next printing. Sometimes language comes to us that is partly literally physical and partly a physical image for a spiritual or psychological reality.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why should the "literal connection" matter at all?
The writing speaks for itself. I know that's a cliche, but it's a good one. Do I suspect that Olds knows personally/is related to the characters in this poem? Yes. But perhaps I'm wrong. And it certainly doesn't matter. The poem spoke to me because I knew and know the people in it, in a broader sense. She is describing the human condition of addiction and genetics. That wasn't the goal of the poem or of the writer. Writers and poems (good ones, anyway) don't have goals. What happend was, the poem spoke to me. The writer reached me. That's all I ever ask, and I never even ask that. It happens all of a sudden.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Woah, now.
Edited on Thu Jan-03-08 04:56 PM by BlueIris
Wrong place for a lecture, if you ask me. And the wrong poster to direct it at.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sorry!! Didn't mean for a lecture. It just came out...
...all of a sudden. As long as it took me to type it is how much thought I put into it. (I'm writing a book of fiction in between DU breaks that makes this issue kinda on my front burner). I certainly didn't mean my question there as confrontational in any way. Honestly, it wasn't at all directed at you, BlueIris. You're the tops! Mona Lisa/Tower o' Pisa, etc. Rather it was rhetorical and contemplative. I guess I was basically agreeing with everything Olds said in that interview (though of course she said it better than I could). Interviewers often want to know the extent to which a fictional work is actually non-fiction, be it writing, song, art, movie, etc. It is a way in to the artist, in theory, but it is quite beside the point, no? All art is autobiographical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Fine, but these are the *poetry* threads.
Just—I hope we can all keep it, er, non-lecturey/judgmental. The last thing I want is fewer comments/views.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "How Happy We Were"
There was a spy in my life who wouldn't let me sleep.
Day in and day out she tortured me with the most sophisticated
devices. At first I squealed like a pig at slaughter.
Then I became addicted. Between sessions I was agitated
and impatient. I cried, "How much longer must I wait?"
So she made me wait longer and longer. I became masterful,
a genius of the thumbscrew and rack. I didn't really need her
any longer. On her last visit she could read this in my eyes,
and it tore a hole in her through which I could see
something like eternity and a few of the little angels
whose sole job it is to fake weeping for people like us.

---James Tate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. damn dude. this is some twisted shit.
:wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Nice.
No, really, that's very well done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. definitely well done.
I like my twisted well done, don't you ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. It matters because we are curious by nature and, we devour
artists like grist in a mill.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Westegg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Ah, but artists have a choice!
They don't HAVE to be devoured. And I'm not sure I understand your simile. The mill produces grist from grain as a matter of course. That is the job of the mill, and the purpose of the grain. The devouring of it (the "destruction" of it, by your tone) takes place later, after the good work has been done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. never mind.
call it poetic license and be done with it. :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kickin' it, in case people want a break from the caucus raucous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Damn, I really like Sharon Olds
This is splendid...

:hi:

RL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC