Is bullfighting really a sport?

[Xipe Totec]

I mean, does that poor bull really have a chance?















:popcorn:

[LostinVA]

1. No, it's not

[Danger Mouse]

2. It's as much of a sport...

as teens getting together and beating up homeless people.

[noamnety]

36. good analogy

"sport" normally implies that all participants are there by choice.

[Danger Mouse]

45. bullfighting disgusts me.

so does beating up homeless people.

[Richard Steele]

3. No, it's ritual slaughter. When the bulls start winning 50% of the contests, I'll call it a sport.nm

[DarkTirade]

19. I'd say it's more of a sport than fishing... :)

[Danger Mouse]

44. at least with fishing...

the intent is to eat the fish.

[DarkTirade]

47. Not necessarily... some catch and release, and some catch in the hopes of stuffing it and putting it

on the mantle.

So fishing can go either way. But I was referring to the chances of the fish taking out the humans rather than vice versa. :)

[Danger Mouse]

48. Not if you fish for pirahna...

:P
Well, I think if you fish, you should eat the fish you catch.

[DarkTirade]

52. Hmm... that would only work if you fished while wading...

and I kinda like that idea... :evilgrin:

[Tian Zhuangzhuang]

4. It's a sport the way skiing is a sport.

They dress up and people watch them and sometimes something exciting happens and they have to have a funeral.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

5. Only in the picture you posted, is it a sport

About bullfighting....

I have been to them in Mexico and in Spain.

Both times against my wishes and better judgement. My feelings and thoughts are as follows:

It is one of the most bizarre things I have ever witnessed in this way - the audience reaction and how they are so into the viciousness of it. The people watching are the real show. They are possessed by it as they stand, screaming in some sort of hypnotic trance. As the bull is being Picadored to death the crowd raise fists into the air and roots for the bull. As the poor beast is weakened by loss of blood, the lust for the poor thing to die overtakes these crazy, wide-eyed observers who, for lack of better words, are pre-orgasmic - This has to be where the term "BLOOD-LUST" comes from.

Then the crowd throbs with ecstasy as the Torero beckons the bull to charge while he draws his sword to execute the cu de grace. The audience is a horde of clueless maniacs who are on their feet cheering as this poor bull is brought to his knees and then killed as the crowd screams and hollers - It is so disturbing that the images are forever etched in my psyche. The death of the bull is terrible but I will forever be disturbed by what I witnessed as I watched the sickness of the crowd.

btw, it is not a sport. It is sick.

(edit to fix dumb assed typo)

[Xipe Totec]

7. Bingo!

You get both ears, but he has no tail...

[pokerfan]

6. Win or lose

the bull still loses.

[Xipe Totec]

8. Not always, but mostly true

An exceptional bull will earn an "indulto", and will be allowed to retire to pasture as a stud.

But this is an extremely rare event.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Not unless cowardice in general is a sport.

[Xipe Totec]

10. Not that I approve of the sport,

but cowardice?

:shrug:

Although I disapprove of this blood sport on general principle, I would not call it cowardice.

There's a lot of pejoratives that can be piled on this "sport".

But cowardice is not one that comes immediately to mind.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Yah - Fighting a 1/2 dead bull with the crowd cheering your "manliness" is cowardice.

[Xipe Totec]

12. What's your definition of bravery then?

Just curious.

[BlooInBloo]

13. Don't pre-wound the bull.

[Xipe Totec]

38. If you can fight a bull under those conditions, then I'm impressed.

But the question still remains; what is your definition of bravery?

[Truthiness Inspector]

51. A man with a sword...against a bull with his natural weapons

And there is NO good reason for this fight at all.

YOU, with only your "balls" in a ring with a bull, where no one would leave alive, who would win?

Answer: Not YOU.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

14. yes -

it is cowardice.:nopity:

If the Bull had a gun and could pull the trigger then I would agree with you.

The way a bullfight is set up it is a sport for a coward. The bull has no clue and is really a dumb animal -- the whole thing is prepared by humans and is done in a human setting. A bull ring is not a place that a bull understands... The picadors ride in on horses and jab the bull until it is weak and dying. Then the bull fighter comes in and goes through his "dance." The picadors are there to distract the bull. It is not even fair.

I have seen it and it is pathetic.

I have heard all the crap about the bull fighter being a hero... That is HYPE. He is a silly guy in real tight pants who is killing a half dead animal.

Don't make me say this shit again....:banghead:

[Momgonepostal]

15. yes, those bulls are ATHLETES I tell ya! nt

[lligrd]

16. No, The Running Of The Bulls

now, that is a sport.

[ashling]

17. You are asking the wrong individuals

You should be asking the Bulls . . . however, from that picture, it seems like the bull is about to have the matador stuffed and hung on the wall.
:rofl:

[Xipe Totec]

40. The bull can only keep the matador's ears and tail

and it looks like the matador has no tail left...

:rofl:

[Dr. Strange]

42. I asked a bull if he thought it was a sport.

He says, "A sport? That's PEOPLESHIT!"

[IndianaJones]

18. Bullfighters are athletes man.

They're athletes.

[mitchum]

26. They are foppish athletes wearing suits of light...to die for!

[WindRavenX]

20. Nope.

It's vulgar.

[MrScorpio]

21. I hate to say this, but this thread is a pretty good example of our cultural bias as Americans

Frankly, I'm a little disturbed at the tone of this thread.

Americans in general, abhor things that they do no understand, and some of us are no exception.

Bullfighting will never be a sport in this country, but is it necessary that we disdain the cultures of Spain and Mexico that see it as part of their nation psyches?

In a way, I see this as typical of how we take death and have turned it into some sort of alternate reality, best shown in the confines of action movies and video games.

In Spain and Mexico, the Bullfight is perceived as a spectacle of life and death seen close up and in person. How can one truly appreciate living without confronting the possibility of non-existence?

There is an element of Machismo that we lack in our society that is depicted in the Bullfight, of course that state of mind is generally not accepted here.

Frankly, one should read Hemmingway to get an insight to the sport, try Death In The Afternoon.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Hemingway

[bicentennial_baby]

22. When it comes to Animal and/or Human Rights, I don't

believe in cultural relativism. :shrug:

[WindRavenX]

23. Sorry dude, I've read almost all of his work...

...and his glorification of the spectacle is still just that: glorification of an event where an animal is literally bleeding it's life out and is in tremendous pain.

I don't care what culture it is, it's brutal. I've seen this argument about dog and cock fighting because of the heavy black and latino fanfare for it, but it doesn't make it right or any less cruel to the animal. And that's what it boils down to: it is cruelty to a living creature.

It's not a matter of culture.

[MrScorpio]

29. I think that because we don't allow it in this country that it matters. To us

The same goes for cock and dog fighting in this country. They're outlawed and I'm completely in agreement that they should never be allowed here.

But the issue is Bullfighting in Mexico and Spain. The whole point of it is a spectacle of life and death, and of course, there is an element of brutality to it. And how these things are accepted parts of their own culture.

In America, we have our own ways of manifesting brutality towards living creatures: factory farms, game hunting, sport fishing, Ultimate fighting, all legal and accepted as part of our culture.

Forgive, if I sense an element of hypocrisy here.

[PeaceNikki]

30. You make an interesting point.

I couldn't help thinking exactly what you said in regards to factory farms, game hunting, sport fishing and Ultimate fighting.

To other cultures (and many sub-cultures of our own - PETA, et al) these norms to us are abhorrent to them.

Interesting way of viewing it. I imagine you've been exposed to many more cultires that some of us here.

[MrScorpio]

32. That's my point exactly

I've been extremely fortunate to travel to both Asia and Europe.

I have to say, it's been a real eye opener.

[WindRavenX]

33. That's the thing: I'm not ever going to *force*, per say, Spain to have it outlawed

It would be gross hypocrisy on the part of the US to do so, for all the reasons you listed.

But it doesn't mean it's right either.

[Xipe Totec]

34. I was surprised by the tone too

This was supposed to be a lighthearted poke at the sport.

I would not have posted on DU lounge otherwise.

[noamnety]

35. There are things in all cultures that deserve to be critcized.

The "element of machismo" that embraces violence and torture as entertainment is one of them. That same culture of machismo defined as conquest is also a women's rights issue.

Mexico's laws have failed to make a dent in violence against women, psychologist Carla Moreno told IPS. Inter-American Development Bank (IDB) figures show that seven out of every 10 Mexican women have suffered some form of abusive treatment at some time in their lives.

(snip)

The latest abuse scandal in Mexico was the beating and repeated rape of 13 women at the hands of 20 soldiers who were guarding ballot boxes from the Jul. 2 national elections, in the northern state of Coahuila, on the border with the United States.

"Mexican women are often seen as objects to be used and discarded, to be thrown on the rubbish heap, as literally happens in Ciudad Juárez. This has got to change, but no visible improvement is on the horizon," Deputy Eliana García, of the leftwing Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD) and a member of the commission, told IPS.

Ciudad Juárez, a city of 1.3 million people just across the border from El Paso, Texas, has the dubious distinction of being known as "the femicide capital" because of the constant disappearances and murders of women since 1993, many of whom had been raped. Human rights organisations say the total number of murders could surpass 4,000.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34338

[MrScorpio]

37. And as these elements pervade our own culture, we should deal with them in our own way

As a human rights issue, the implications are clear: The standards are universal.

Some things need to be changed.

[ElizabethDC]

50. I've lived in Spain and most Spaniards I know view bullfighting as something inhumane

they see it as something for the tourists. I've never been to a bullfight, but my (American) friends who have been to them tell me that there are always loads of protesters outside, with signs such as "La tortura no es nuestra cultura" (torture isn't our culture).

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

24. No, the bull is at a big disadvantage.

A ring, a bull, a matador. That's the romantic fantasy, the fearless against the to-be-feared.

But, the reality: Before the matador steps in, the picadors come into the ring on mattress-padded horses. As the name sort-of implies, the picadors have pikes, or spears, to weaken the bull. The bull attacks the picadors, hitting the horse in the mattress, softly slamming it against the wall. The bull's reward? Stabbed some more with the pike.

Finally, half-dead and totally exhausted, the bull stands in the ring while the picadors exit. Bring on the matador, fresh as a daisy, to face a bull that can barely stand. The bull can muster a few good charges, but weak ones compared to the forced used to hit the mattressed horses of the picadors. The outcome is almost certain. The bull is put down with a few stabs in the back.

Eliminate the picadors, let the matador face a fresh bull. Then I might call it sport.

This was my view of a bullfight, many years ago on Mallorca.

[Kajsa]

25. Nope, it's glorified slaughter.

n/t

[mitchum]

27. It's slaughter as ritual and spectacle

[Kajsa]

28. Check it out.

This bull had other plans.
( found it through Google)

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=9024458

I think he got to live.
;-)

[Xipe Totec]

31. Hilarious!

:rofl:

[Kajsa]

41. I just love his expression at the end.

" Hey- I just stripped this guy of everything from the waist down"
"I'm wearing his undies as a trophy!"

:rofl:

[Zomby Woof]

39. It never was a sport

It's an art. More akin to opera than soccer, by far.

[Taverner]

43. Systematic Torture from our Roman Days

They just replaced one of the Gladiators with a bull.

Just as bloodthirsty.

[Pacifist Patriot]

46. I attended bull fights in Madrid once.

I frankly found it boring and pointless. Outcome is a foregone conclusion. I'd rather be shopping and I detest shopping. We host a Spanish exchange student in the summer. 50% love it. 50% hate it. I find that fascinating. I don't know why.

[Truthiness Inspector]

49. Bullfighting is NOT a sport. It's an exercise for cowards.

I don't want to hear any cultural bullshit on animal cruelty either.

It is barbaric and unworthy of valor.

[TreasonousBastard]

53. There is a small restaurant next to the Corrida in Madrid...

I don't remember the name, but they specialize in bulls from the previous day's events.

The meat is, as one would assume, tough and stringy and needs a lot of work to get it to an edible state, although a few people seem to like it that way. One night I was in there and the table next to me had a plate with two large round things on it, and the patrons seemdd to be enjoying a tender meal.

I asked the waiter what it was, since it didn't seem to be on the menu. "Dos Huevos del Toro" he explained, and there were, of course, only 8 portions a day served, since there were 8 bullfights a day. It had to be reserved in advance.

So, I reserved mine for a few days later and went back. My plate arrived with two tiny little medallions on it and I immediately complained about the portion size.

"Oh, Senor, the bull-- he does not always lose."