My Current Pet Peeve: People who say "You GUYS -- " even when

[Radio_Lady]

speaking to a room full of WOMEN. This is getting to me, if you know what I mean.

What's your pet peeve -- linguistically, that is?

[OnionPatch]

1. Mine is

when people say "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less."

As for the "you guys" thing.....we all say that in the midwest and yes, we say it to women, even if it is a group of ALL women. I had a hard time with that when I lived and worked in Texas for awhile. I had to start saying "y'all" instead. :eyes:

[Patiod]

70. Well, it beats "youse"

I tend to say "you guys" all the time, and I conduct focus groups, many of which are all-female.

[Left Is Write]

2. I tend to think of "you guys" in a generic sense in that context.

It doesn't bother me.

My biggest peeve? "I seen."

[Richard Steele]

68. I use 'guys' that way on purpose.

ENGLISH needs more non-gender-specific pronouns, and I'm doing my bit to help.

[RetroLounge]

3. Women calling each other Dude

GGGGRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

RL

[melnjones]

6. hahahahahahahah,

I just did that about ten minutes ago in another thread:evilgrin:

[RetroLounge]

10. AAAArrrrrarrgggggghhhhh

:spank:

RL

[Radio_Lady]

9. Yes, that's pretty annoying. What are we supposed to call each other?

Let's think...

If you use "lady" it's too British.

"Girl" sounds too black... and it's what we fought against when a "Negro" man was caled "boy" back in Florida in the 50s.

"Woman" is too -- I don't know what.

Yes, dude is definitely reserved for the male sex.


PS: Oh, I love Alec Baldwin. I even liked him in "Cat in the Hat" in his purple suit. I think he's the cutest Baldwin brother -- don't you?

[Borgnine]

12. The feminine version of dude is dudette.

That term has really fallen by the wayside in the last ten years though.

[Radio_Lady]

13. How about "dudess"? On second thought, that's a DUD...

[curse10]

77. and thanfully so- it sounds stupid and silly

"hey dudette!" :puke: Gross.

[short bus president]

55. Hee! Get with the program!

RetroLounge is the cutest Baldwin BY FAR!

[Maddy McCall]

18. "Dudette" is all the rage around here.

I can't stand it, either.

[NorthernSpy]

33. "dudette" does sound pretty silly...

But I am kind of surprised that people would be bugged by "guys", "dude", "folks, etc.

:shrug:

[Radio_Lady]

43. The whole thing would go away if we just said, "All of you..."

(followed by the rest of the sentence)

"Thanks to all of you, I've been invited here today for a lecture."

"I want to compliment all of you for a job well done."

"It was a great performance. You are all to be commended."


Simple. Gender neutral. Specific enough without being cloying or insufferable -- or regional.


(And, no -- I won't accept "all of you all..................." for those of you who think of it.)

[Goldmund]

20. I dig it when they do that.

I sure call women "dude" all the time.

[curse10]

76. I don't see why this bothers anyone- "dude" became asexual a long time ago

:shrug:

[melnjones]

4. "A whole nother"

instead of saying "another whole"...sad thing is, I sometimes catch even myself saying it:banghead:

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. Actually sometimes....

the real intent is "a whole other"

Interestingly, a similar linguistic trick resulted in our modern word "apron" accordingly to something I read somewhere. In Old or Middle English, the word was "napron" but "a napron" gradually shifted to "an apron."

[frylock]

5. people who say "at the same token"..

heard Coach Thompson say it earlier tonight while watching the Sonics-Spurs game.

[Roland99]

7. Man, what's wrong with you?

:P

[Jean Louise Finch]

59. See now

I call everybody man.

[Roland99]

67. Me, too. Ever since I was a kid I've used that word.

[dxstone]

8. When I lived in Portland, OR a few years back...

All the club kids would call each other DUDE all the time... ESPECIALLY the girls.
It seemed kinda cute at first, but fast became kinda dumb/annoying...

What I hate most now is when people fail to address me as "Your Excellent Excellency"... they always screw it up; they either they forget a word or add an extra Excellent in there accidentally... and let's face it, Your Excellent Excellent Excellency is just a bit too ostentatious for me...

[DS1]

11. I hate being called "folks". I've equated it with Rush

so it makes me do a little facial tick when I hear or read it

[Radio_Lady]

15. Yes, one of our local weatherman here in Portland -- says "folks"

in about every sentence. I wish someone would call him on it.

[Maddy McCall]

17. OMG!

I didn't even read your post when I posted. Look below at my post. :D

[caledesi]

14. "member when" ...meaning remember when. nt

[Maddy McCall]

16. People who start a post with "People" or "Folks"

As in "People, you've got to hear this," or "Folks, we know where it's headed."

Both grate on my nerves.

[Radio_Lady]

19. A few years ago, I started using "Gentlepeople" as a greeting in

formal letters instead of "Gentlemen" or "Gentlewomen" -- I received a lot of interesting responses to that opening.

[Maddy McCall]

30. 'nuff said.

Drives me crazy. As if *your* word is the final word.

[DS1]

27. I've put people on ignore for that

I really hate seeing it, I'm not your fucking "folk" :nuke:

[NorthernSpy]

31. folk you!

It's a perfectly good Anglo-Saxon word.

[Nevernose]

21. I think of it as a gender-neutral term.

And therefore, in my brain at least, it's neither sexist nor incorrect. Then again, I never use the term in front of a group solely consisting of women, only mixed-gender groups, and then only in a familiar context (the Spanish equivalent might be "vosotros"). Is that the same thing? Can't the defintions and applications of words change over time, so that a word like "guys" becomes gender-neutral?

[Radio_Lady]

45. IMHO, Folks is too... well... too folksy for a more formal talk...

Think of how much George Bush uses the word! You could just puke!

[curse10]

78. yes- I'd say "guys" is pretty gender neutral at this point

put the singular, "guy," is not - IMHO

[jukes]

22. it's difficult

to avoid gender identifiers in english. "you women" or "you ladies" sounds patronizing when pronounced by a man. "you people" is stilted and can sound condescending. "you folks" is a little too, well, "folksy".

i use "you guys" generically, because i really see little difference between the sexes except for sexual preference, and that is often blurred. unless discussing childbirth, i think "you guys" is relaxed, inclusive, and often the least objectional form of address.

sorry if it offends you personally, but i'll probably continue unless a full consensus is expressed.

[Radio_Lady]

48. See my post #43. I don't expect a full consensus -- this is just between

you and me!

[Dukkha]

24. Remember The Electric Company?

When Rita Moreno would scream HEY YOU GUYS!

[Southsideirish]

25. You are so correct -I prefer "youse guys", being a south sider.

[TheProphetess]

26. This is a habit I've been trying to break

but I have been having difficulty. I'm trying to speak with nonsexist language but it's very tough to unlearn old habits. I'm trying! :)

My pet peeve, though, is in written form. When my students (college students, mind you) use "there," "their," and "they're" as if they were the same term and could be used interchangeably. Uggh!! :banghead:

[Cannikin]

28. Say yall like we do down south.

[youthere]

29. "like umm"

Like umm you know when people like umm say like umm all the time?

[bleedingheart]

32. Yinz Guyz are just so particular...

hee hee...had to throw a little "pittsburghese" in there.

[Shell Beau]

34. That is why in the south we say "ya'll". We're too lazy to say "you all".

Why say "you all" when you don't have to?:shrug: :crazy:

[Hand]

35. "I'm like... and he's like... and then she's like... and I'm like..."

I

HATE

that! It's the supreme idiocy of this ghastly age... well, short of the current administration. "Nucular" is a close second.
:grr: :nuke:

[Radio_Lady]

40. Yes, my seven-year-old granddaughter has this speech corruption...

When I correct her, she says, "All the kids say it in my class!"

I told her, "I know. It's everywhere. But I love the English language and it's the worst corrupting word I've ever heard."

Well, maybe "you know" is worse! Now I'm not sure.

[Hand]

64. It bothers me more...

when educated adults use this, um, alleged form of speech. Morans.

[Shell Beau]

36. I hate when people say " I aint got no_________" It sounds absolutely

horrendous. It makes me cringe.

[Radio_Lady]

41. This phrase was common in the South -- but just in people who were

truly deprived of proper language education.

[Shell Beau]

72. Well I am in the South and you'd be surprised

at how many very well educated people say it. It's kind of like slang. People don't realize they are saying it. It's really just laziness.

[johnnie]

37. "You guys" is a regional phrase

Everyone around here says it, men and women. It is just the way we talk.

[Radio_Lady]

42. Well, I'm in the Northwest, and I've heard it here -- sad to say --

it seems to me this "regionalism" has captured the nation.

[SOteric]

38. "You Guys" is the northern equivalent of the South's "Y'all."

It's not meant to be a gender-specific identifier.

[Radio_Lady]

49. See my post #43. I don't expect a full consensus -- this is just between

the two of us!!!!!!

[Crazy Guggenheim]

39. Hey man! Be cool!

:hide:

[Radio_Lady]

50. OK, Crazy! If you say so... but I'm concerned that you're called...

Crazy for good reason!

[MrSlayer]

44. By it's definition there is nothing wrong with the phrase.

guy2

n.

1. Informal. A man; a fellow.
2. guys Informal. Persons of either sex.
3. Chiefly British. A person of odd or grotesque appearance or dress.
4. often Guy An effigy of Guy Fawkes paraded through the streets of English towns and burned on Guy Fawkes Day.

You never heard that Nantucket Nectars commercial?

[Radio_Lady]

52. I'm OK with the definitions. But let's get together on "its" ---

"its" is possessive, or belonging to. I know... it doesn't follow the rules.

"it's" is NOT possessive. It's a contraction between "it" and "is" -- and one of the most common English mistakes. I see it in books, on walls, and framed with the error staring me right in the face.

[MrSlayer]

58. Thanks.

Seriously. Consider us together on the use of "its" and "it's".

[ronnykmarshall]

46. I prefer "Hey you whores"

at least that's what all my homegirls say to me.

[Radio_Lady]

53. For special audiences, that works for me -- {{{{irony goes here}}}

[Mrs_Beastman]

47. Tooken

This is not a word

ie... "I should have tooken the bus."

Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...that is the worst. But, like it has already been said, that is a regional ,midwest thing. Even I use it here in Cleveland.

[Radio_Lady]

54. Speaking of regionalisms, here's a tongue twister that stops some cold...

especially if they live near Boston or even elsewhere in New England.

Say it several times in succession:

"A SAWHORSE on HAWTHORNE STREET"

My husband, born in Brockton, Mass., just can't say it. He struggles and struggles -- but he's great with Peter Piper, etc.

[Mrs_Beastman]

57. You are right

I screwed it up the 2nd time I said it

[MissMarple]

51. I think it's a colloquial thing. I use it all the time.

More with men and kids, but sometimes with women.

[Radio_Lady]

56. "All of you have contributed to this forum. I give you my thanks."

I made it to 1,000 posts.

I contributed $50.00 to this effort tonight.

Thanks to each and every one of you for brightening my days and nights!

[usedtobesick]

60. isn't it Uz Guyz

I grew up in Philly and I think you are not getting the accent correct. And I think it is always preceded by Hey... uz guyz....

[Patiod]

73. Not "hey", in Phila ---- it's "Yo! Guys!"

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. "You guys"--a linguist's point of view

Having had linguistic training, I see "you guys" filling a gap in modern English.

In the old days, "you" was plural or honorific. One used it when talking to more than one person or to a high ranking person. "You should all go join that crusade" or "You look splendid in that ermine robe." The singular was "thou," as in "Thou art an ass. I hate thee."

It was like the difference between "tu" and "vous" in French, "du" and "Sie" in German, or "ty" and "vy" in Russian.

Gradually, "thou/thee" fell out of use and was replaced by "you" all around.

However, we still feel the need for a plural "you" on occasion. In Southern American, "y'all" fills the bill. In parts of the Northeast, it's "youse," as in "I'll be wit' youse in a moment."

But General Standard American has had no plural "you," at least not until the middle of the twentieth century, when "you guys" became popular.

It fills a niche, so it's likely to stay.

By the way, Hawaiian English goes even farther with "guys." If someone said, "Lydia guys," that would mean "Lydia and the people who are somehow associated with her. Lydia and all those people."


Now MY personal linguistic pet peeves are:

1. Confusing "lie" and "lay." I've almost given up on this one.

2. Saying "between you and I," "for he and I," or any other such phrase in which a preposition is followed by the nominative form. You wouldn't see "for he" or "for I," would you? It's "between you and me," "for him and me."

3. Using past tenses instead of past participles, as in "I have went," "I have ate," "I have came," "I have drank." The worst example was a headline in the Portland paper (I used to live there, too, Radio Lady :hi:), when a murder suspect was quoted as saying, "I ain't did nothing."

[fudge stripe cookays]

71. Ha!

Lydia, you are always a font of wisdom. You and my junior high English teacher would have been fast friends, I can tell. A very proper lady from Boston teaching at my Catholic School. We all loved her....diagramming multitudinous sentences aside.

That woman was a marvel to me, and through her, I learned every possible grammar rule I think you can learn. I forget every once in awhile when I'm hurrying, but I think I'm one of the few people around anymore who still knows the difference between lie and lay.

She had a huge chart up on her blackboard of words we weren't allowed to use, including "Thing" and "stuff". We weren't allowed to start a sentence with "I" or end a sentence with a preposition.

Thanks Mrs. O'Hearne! :toast:

FSC

[Patiod]

75. Thanks, Lydia

That was interesting, especially the Hawaiian form "Lydia guys"

I have to publically confess: I don't know the lay/lie thing.

One night my senior year in college, my boyfriend bought a new car with a moonroof, and we went out for a drive in it. We put the seats back, and spent time quietly looking at the stars.

Me: I could just lay here all night.
Him: Lie.
Me: I'm not lying - I like it here.
Him: No - you could just lie here all night.
Me: Oh, that's right, Mr. Romantic, I forgot your dad is an English professor.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. Okay, here's the Reader's Digest condensed version of "lie/lay."

"Lie" means to recline, to be in a horizontal position.

As the book of Luke says, "They found the babe lying in a manger."

You tell your dog to "lie down." And I usually lie down when I take a nap, except when I nod off in a chair. As one essayist commented, "to lay down" means to spread feathers. More about that later.

Personally, I have never liked to lie out in the sun.

And if you're planning an ambush, you lie in wait for your opponent.

There's a dictionary lying on the table.

"Lay" means to put something into a reclining or horizontal position.

It is therefore okay to say "lay the baby down for a nap" or "Lay myself down."

"Lay out" is okay if you're laying out a corpse or if you're assuming the position of that name in gymnastics.

You can also lay a dictionary on a table.

Are you with me so far?

Okay, here's where the confusion comes in.

The past tense of "lie" is "lay."

The babe lay in a manger.

I lay down for nap. The dog whimpered and lay down next to my bed.

I'm all sunburned because I lay out in the sun too long.

The soldiers lay in wait for the enemy.

The dictionary lay on the table. I picked it up.

The past tense of "lay" is "laid."

"I laid the baby down for a nap." "I laid myself down for a nap."

"They laid out the corpse."

"I laid the dictionary on the table."

The past participle of "lie" is "lain."

The injured dog had lain there whimpering for hours before someone found it.

I had just lain down for a nap when the phone rang.

The past participle of "lay" is "laid."

I have already laid out the cold food for the buffet.

I have just laid the baby down for a nap.

By the way, some people scoff at this distinction and say that it's just a relic of the old days when teachers tried to make English fit Latin grammar. On the contrary, the equivalent of the "lie/lay" distinction is found in all the Germanic languages, and very ordinary people were mostly able to maintain it until the early 1970s. I blame a rash of songs such as "Lay Lady Lay," "Lay Down Lay Down," and "Won't You Lay With Me in a Field of Stone" for messing up people's minds. (However, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face" uses the verb correctly: "The first time ever I lay with you.")

This grammar lesson is brought to you free of charge by Lydia "Lie vs. Lay" Leftcoast.

:hi:

[bearfan454]

62. I do that.

It's a yankee thing.

[Radical Activist]

63. come with?

That's not a sentence!!! If you use that phase then I'm not coming with YOU and you can't come with ME.

[Kerrytravelers]

65. 'K guys, here's what I hate. Listen up, people.!

:P


I absolutely hate it when someone starts a post with:

Um... no
Um... nope
Um... you're wrong



Even though they may not follow it up with anything snarky, when I see this in the subject line, I get my Irish up and feel defensive before reading any further. I feel like I"m been spoken too as if I'm an idiot, a child or *- none of which I like.

But I don't have a complex or anything. ;)

[thecai]

66. Sorry You Guys...

...and Gals.

[bertha katzenengel]

69. That is my best friend's pet peeve, too. He always corrects the waitron...

whenever we dine together and the waitron says, "How you guys doing tonight?" My friend will say, "Well, I'm fine, and she is a woman, not a guy..." :loveya: Dale, whattaguy. ;)

[Deep13]

74. so tacky

Everyone around here does that. It is really irritating. My wife is not a guy. It is part of the imposed familiarization of our culture. Everyone is on a first-name basis, if not to say a nick-name basis. Outside of friends and family, it is rude as hell.

[leftofthedial]

79. you guys and your pet peeves!

sheesh

;-)

[Hugin]

80. Mine is the great "effect" vs. "affect" debate.

Also, to, two, too abuse.

and loose vs. lose.