Remarriage: how long should we wait? how many times is too many?

[ForrestGump]

Poll question: Remarriage: how long should we wait? how many times is too many?

Just curious. I haven't finished with the first one, legally, but I can't help but wonder about the future.

Other of my family members have demonstrated a disturbing tendency to bounce from one marriage or relationship to another. I tend more toward the monastic and reclusive - songs like I Am A Rock were written for dudes like me - but I really would rather enjoy a spot of the old 'slap-and-tickle' again. And finding that elusive thing called 'love' - the romantic variant thereof - would be just dandy.

But I have to think that I'd be an idiot to get married again any time soon. If ever, for that matter. Maybe some people are just not meant to be married. And the more I think about it, the weirder marriage seems. I don't want to offend anyone who is happily married or who has extremely strong religious (or other) feelings about the inherent sanctity of marriage, but to those of us who do not honestly see it as a literal contract between a couple and a deity or church, but as a personal commitment, isn't it pretty much a matter of us asking for the State's blessing and permission to form a personal relationship? And then when it all goes wrong we can't just say "catch you later," but have to seek the State's permission to split and then pay lawyers to divide everything up and potentially create further discord. Maybe if I had children the equation would make more sense to me, and I'm obviously biased by disillusionment right now.

If I were someone other than me, and me asked me if I should get hitched again soon after a marriage ended, I'd tell me "no way, dude, and stop impersonating me." My reflex would be to just say that I'll never marry again, but I rarely see anything in black-and-white and I voted for the fifth choice below - I'm not discounting marriage, but I won't be kicking down any Vegas wedding chapel doors, either.

And marriage is basically a necessary thing, sometimes, like if one partner has an unwavering belief that they need to be married and you have no intention of letting him or her go (man, tough call) or - perhaps more realistically - if you lived in one country and they in another or if you're both of whatever nationalities and move to another country to live and work, a country in which your unmarried partner is unable to stay for longer than a tourist visa permits or to seek work. I've been there, and I know that some of our fellows - including (thanks to outmoded, stupid restrictions) sapphocrat and foreigncorrespondent - have faced or are facing similar dilemmas. The fact is, if you're involved in a long-term relationship that does not have the State's approval in the form of a marriage certificate, you may basically not able to live together if you end up out of your home country.

And the other thing I'm curious about - for no directly imminent reason (sorry, Salma) - is what kind of experiences DUers who've remarried have had in terms of cooling-off periods. I've actually been functionally single for a fair while now, though I am cursed by just enough respect for the fiery wreck that is my marriage that I won't act single until I've got the formalities taken care of. The thought of being at that point is a bit intimidating, the whole idea of being single again. I'll hopefully be nowhere near as terminally clueless and oblivious to the opposite sex's courtship displays and mating cues as I once was, but I anticipate perhaps still being basically scared s***less at first. I'd love to hear how it's been for others who've gone this way before me, even if you don't say "it'll be okay, dude...you'll be fine." But, please, feel free to say "it'll be okay, dude...you'll be fine."

Anyway, I'd like to hear what you think, both in terms of your feelings about marriage, about remarriage, and about the transition from divorced to swinging bachelor (or bachelorette) studmuffin (or wicked hot fox).

And if you're not yet married but have an opinion, or are currently happily (or otherwise, for that matter) married and have an opinion, or are unable to marry (e.g., you're gay and the laws are f***ed-up) and have an opinion, well, please come on down!

[Jack Rabbit]

1. How about. . .

Marriage was abolished with the Thirteenth Amendment?

[ForrestGump]

4. Dude!

That's the one about coveting thy neighbor's wife, right? :D

Actually, I think that Ashcroft is working with those Southern Heritage boys to overturn the Thirteenth Amendment...

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. Is there someone you care about now, Forrest?

If there is, then life is too short not to (excuse trite old beer commercial reference) go for the gold. If not, then wait for love to find you. Of course, you can work on it in the meantime.

[ForrestGump]

7. Thanks, great (nay, EXCELLENT) aunt

Just generically curious and thinking about this kind of thing as kind of emotional preparation for the next step. I like what you say, though - go for it, if it's there, but don't fall over yourself charging windmills if it's not. I've still got a lot of my life left, so no dire rush. :-)

Thanks! :loveya:

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. You are welcome, Forrest.

Sometimes things happen to you when you are least looking for them. Even if they don't work out.

Good luck.

[ForrestGump]

20. Thanks again...

:D

"greatauntoftriplets always did have a way of explaining things so I could understand them"



The old Zen truism: if you seek it will not find it. :-)

I already feel better. Future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!

Thanks!

[Clete]

3. Even though I am married, I really don't believe in the concept.

However, I will share this little tale with you about a girl I met in my travels. Actually, she was a deputy sheriff who lived in the same place that I did and we got to be friendly after an unpleasant encounter I had with an idiot, which she intervened in. So one day she mentioned that her husband was her seventh. Well this gal was barely thirty so my eyebrow must have involuntarily risen a twitch.

She, of course, noticed that and laughed saying, "Heck, until my last husband, no one had told me that you didn't have to marry them to have sex."

Not a good story, but true.

[Exultant Democracy]

6. rim shot

best story ever.

[ForrestGump]

10. Oh, yeah!

My goodness. I wonder what number she's going to stop at? She's outdone Elizabeth Taylor. Have to love her sense of humor, though. I mean, I hope she was being jocular (jillular?).

There's something about a woman in a uniform who totes a gun and her own baton, I have to say. And a Tazer, too. Oh - I'm feeling strangely warm inside... :o

[Clete]

14. She really did have a great sense of humor.

Also, she unfortunately some of those "life didn't hand me a box of chocolates" bad problems, too, with her children.

[ForrestGump]

16. Well, I could fix that for her

At least for the few minutes of joy that she'd get (from the chocolates, I mean...I've got to say that, pre-emptively, because DUers have such one-track minds):

[NaMeaHou]

5. I would have voted, but

I don't believe in polls anymore. Being married officially 4 times and now to someone else unofficially (to her, anyway) causes me much angst.

polls are skewed and screwed, dude!

:)

[ForrestGump]

11. What'd Polish people ever do to YOU?!

Oh...never mind.

Well, fifth time lucky, dude! I wish you many years of almost-semi-wedded bliss. May your angst fade like Bush Junior's approval statistics. :-)

[NaMeaHou]

13. That's the problem!

No one was Polish!!!!!!! Damn damn damn.
I KNEW I was doing something wrong!

I'm looking for a sweet Polish girl now, and that's it.

[ForrestGump]

21. How about Polka Salad Annie?

Okay...that was pretty dire, I admit. :D

Good luck with the search. Make sure to take a lot of consonants with you, dude, because you're going to need them (they need the vowels in Polynesia, so it works out quite well).

[seventhson]

9. Marriage is a contract

if you think doing business with strangers is complicated - try doing it with the one you love.

I oppose the institution of marriage as a state sanctioned legal contract.

Love should not be by contract.

Contracts do not work in romantic endeavours.

If you want to promise never to leave then do so. But entering a contract for which permission from someone you don't know is required in order to break the contract formally is INSANE.

Discrimination against people who want to enter social contracts as partners for money reasons (owning a house, for example) or having a baby etc. - to protect one's rights - is insane too. Just cause the state says your relationship is "approved" because you got "married' (got a piece of paper) does not mean it will survive or mean anything at all.

Love does not need a contract. But the state should let folks agree if they want what rights they WANT to share (inheritance, medical decisions, care of kids, etc.) and let ANYONE enter that relationship, gay or straight.

I worked in divorce court for years. I saw a guy come in who shot his wife nine times in the heart. I signed hundreds of divorce decrees as a clerk.

Marriage is really nothing but a highly emotional piece of paper. Half of marriages fail. It is a pretty meaningless institution.

[ForrestGump]

15. You make a lot of sense

Actually, you make total sense.

There are, or can be, other dimensions of marriage, but are they really any different than those inherent to any 'unofficial' declaration of love and fidelity that two people can make by themselves? I don't see how.

And, yeah, when you look at the stats of marriage failure, they don't really inspire confidence. People break up all the time, of course, but the fact of marriage makes that break-up far more complex, costly, and probably personally devastating, and I'd bet that a lot of people stay in bad relationships - to the detriment of both partners and any children they have - far longer than is healthy solely (or, at least, partly) because of those additional hoops that have to be jumped through. What am I saying - many of the people I know, myself included, basically have done just that.

I'd obviously agree to disagree if I were strongly for the institution of marriage by virtue of a religious or other strong conviction. I'm not, though, and I have to say that - looking at it for what it really is - I think you make good points.

The idea of marriage that most people probably have is all very nice, and I'm sure that few ever think of it (until divorce time or other crises) as a contract with the government. I didn't think about it at all. Not just that aspect, but what marriage really was...or anything. I found myself all dressed up and standing in front of a bunch of people - many of whom I had never seen before - and had absolutely no idea how I ended up there. Heck, maybe I was drugged or kidnapped by aliens...it sounds a lot better than just not being able to explain how I drifted into matrimony.

I admit that I have been known to bear an almost frightening resemblance, in some ways, to Hugh Grant's character from Four Weddings And A Funeral, right down to the impossibly tortuous David Cassidy "I love you" speech, and - as it turned out - I'd have been better off taking a swift punch from an abandoned bride on that day than the series of unerringly-aimed kicks in the gonadal zone that have followed.

I wish someone had pointed out to me the mere fact that marriage, for someone with no deep conventional religious belief, is as you described it above. Heck, I went all these years without ever even realizing it until a couple of years ago, and then only because I read something pretty much like you wrote. In fact, I may well have read it here on DU when I was still lurking. It was a revelation: "Dude, marriage is asking the government if it's okay that you form a personal relationship with someone."

And what's really weird about marriage is that, considering the turmoil, hassle, and upheaval attendant to its dissolution (and with some people we're talking millions or even billions of dollars thrown into the mix), pretty much anybody can officiate at a wedding. I wouldn't even have to go for my captain's certificate to marry people...I could just be ordained in some spurious church, or some New Age church-like group (I know people who run a couple of those and could probably walk in and come right out as the Reverend Forrest) and hitch people. Strange.

I guess I'm still not giving up entirely on marriage (and there are, because the official world does not see things as you do, some practical reasosn why it could be appropriate...which, of course, is inane) but, you're right, as a state-sanctioned contract it is just plain odd in terms of also being an expression of deep and (hopefully) abiding love.

[Nikia]

12. My mom's been married three times

She dated for a number of years(6 or 7 I think) before marrying my evil stepfather after divorcing my dad. She was rather young then though, having married the day after her 17th birthday the first time. After dating the evil guy for too long, she finally divorced. She started dating her third husband before she was officially divorced from her second husband because the divorce drug on over stupid stuff like who got which movie video. Now she is somewhat happy because she married to the nice nerdy guy that does whatever she tells him. She has children from each of the three.
Myself, I have been married for three years and intend to continue our marriage. If my husband left me tomarrow, I probably would remarry after trying to figure out what went wrong if it was a problem with me. If I had children, I probably wouldn't remarry. I wouldn't want a man to come between my children and I.

[ForrestGump]

22. Thanks, Nikia

I can see how children would definitelt change the options' relative merits, too. Even today, with changed and changing attitudes and norms, there are practical considerations that may make marriage more or less desirable when children are involved.

Your mother's journey sounds a lot like those of some of my family members. I'm happy that she at least has some stability in that respect now. And I wish you well in your marriage! :D

[arwalden]

17. Third Time Is The Charm With Me

Nine years for the first one. Three years for the second one. Nine years (so far) for this one.

People learn from their mistakes. I did.

-- Allen

[ForrestGump]

24. Wow

You have more longevity in each of yours than most people do in their on and only! Good going, dude.

Yes, people who don't learn from their mistakes are probably going to repeat at least some of those patterns. I've had lots of time for introspection since things hit the rotating blades, but the longer I have the better prepared I'll be for Round Two.

Thanks, Allen - I'll take a cue from you and channel the power of the duck in my aid. :D

[Wickerman]

18. Married twice

the first time sucked - took me years to feel better about anything afterwards. Got better, stopped looking for a relationship, and, of course, one plopped in my lap. Love being married this time out, love family life, love being part of a community. Good luck Forrest.

[ForrestGump]

25. Thanks, lunabush!

I'm happy that you are doing infinitely better this second time around - well, first time, where it counts, because it's a different relationship with a different person, thank goodness. :D

That does seem to happen, doesn't it...that principle of things (all sorts of things - anything) coming to you right after you finally let them go. I like that. And I'm happy to see the bright side of marriage has struck.

I wish you continued happiness, lunabush!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Why get married again when you can cruise with me and pick up women?

:shrug:

On the more serious side, I once knew a guy who had been married 7 times. The beautiful thing about him was that he never gave up and wife number 7 was a charm!

I also knew a woman who had been married five times and was getting a divorce...she sighed and said "maybe I just wasn't meant to be married" to which I responded "maybe you were just meant to be married lots of times."

She is on husband number six now and it has lasted over a decade so..so far, so good.

[ForrestGump]

26. That's an offer I cannot refuse!

Let's roll... :D

Bad connotation?

Okay...rock'n' roll, then. Lookin' for love in all the wong pwaces wrong places!

I really can't help but appreciate that man's persistence - I mean, that's really holding out with a lot of faith - and I think you nailed it with that woman's husband count. Serial matrimonialists! It'd have been really cool - high concept, it'd sell - if they'd found each other for the lasting marriage. Still, I wish them well with their current matches.

All right, NSMA - got the NSMAmobile fuelled up and nicely polished...let's go get 'em!

[Guaranteed]

23. Yeah, I've never been married...

I'm still pretty young. But I'm sure that when I do get married, it's for good. I'm not playing around. And I'm telling my potential wife this, too. I'm going to make it known to her in no uncertain that I'm deadly serious before the fact.

[ForrestGump]

27. Yes, please don't rush into anything

Or be like me and just sorta find yourself there. You never know what will happen, ever, but a little patient observation, self-assessment, and self-knowledge will go a long way. the only good thing about all these divorces going on is that there ar eplenty of cautionary tales to learn from. I hope that you find the perfect woman, at the perfect time. The rest is up to you, and you write its story as you go along.

Good luck!

[SOteric]

28. How about a compromise?

I think many, -perhaps even most- marriages are patently silly unions of patently silly people who are busy being amazingly silly about one another.

Even setting aside my parents extraordinarily long-lived love affair, however, I have known people whose marriages were not merely healthy, and working, but were heavenly and thriving. So I'm not a complete cynic or misanthrope about the idea of two people finding happiness and fulfillment in one another's company.

I'm convinced that much of society and a great many individuals have strange notions about what marriage is and should be.

As for me personally, I'm more than a bit of a commitmentphobe. It's been hellish enough making sufficient terms with a deceased lover to allow myself to date and then to love again. I'm in no hurry for a trip to the alter to pledge my devotion.

If the most ideal, the most extraordinary, the most wonderful man should come to the conclusion that marriage with me was his goal in life, I would be open to negotiation. I wouldn't be an 'easy sell.'

[supernova]

29. My 2 cents

For what it's worth, I'm in the "I've done it once, but would procede with extreme caution for the future" category. It's a miracle I'm not totally turned off to the idea of a relationship, much less marriage. If you had asked me 1-3 years out from the time I left if I wanted another relationship, I would have said "Hell NO!"

I was married for nine years, from 86-95. Our divorce was final in May of 97. We were together 10 years. It was a tough slog. In many ways we were compatible, sharing some interests such as politics, international relations, similar socio-economic and religious backgrounds. Similar tastes in the arts and so forth. We were also the same age. He was born in April, I was born in July. Seemed like a good fit. I thought.

I didn't care or notice at the time that he had an impossible temper, no clue about dealing with money, or earning it, or that he wanted to blame everybody else for his problems in life. Ask me how long it took to get the sound of his screaming out of my head, telling me I'd never amount to anything. Or the way it felt to be shoved to the ground simply for voicing my opinion.

The answer is it took years.

Lest you think I'm dumping on him here, for my own part in this mess, I was stupid also. I kept myself under the illusion that he would "grow out of it." The he would "come to his senses!" That I could endure it all. How wrong I was.

I've spent the last 5 years reclaiming myself. Some days I'm more sucessful than others. But at least I have a peaceful life, now. I am ready to date again, oddly enough. I would like to have another relationship. I see others on the street or watch other family members and it makes me smile. I know what a healthy relationship looks like (and that's progress of a kind), but I haven't experienced it myself. Maybe someday I will.

So I guess the answer to your question is that with time things do change. Mercifully.

[Buns_of_Fire]

30. I've been told that the general rule of thumb

is that it usually takes about one year for every five you were married to recover emotionally. I'm now about ten years out of a 20-year marriage (with two children -- both married now), so I figure I'm finally Ready to Take a Chance Again*. The first five years were getting over the guilt. My ex handled it a lot better than I did -- she remarried within about a year (and happily so, from what I can tell).

Will the stars align for me again? Maybe, maybe not. After three rather disastrous affairs (one left a note on my answering machine telling me she was getting married and moving cross-country, followed by a *click*) and one online relationship where I thought I'd found my soulmate and she simply just disappeared into the ether one day (I hope she's well), I've basically given up on actively finding anyone. So I'm taking the Zen approach, now: if I search very, very hard for it, odds are I'll never, ever find it. If it is to happen, it'll happen (and at a time and place I'd least expect it).

(On the other hand... Cheryl Teigs, if you're reading this, I'm available! ;-) )

*My apologies to Barry Manilow and Will Pitt, who's going to send out hit men for me if I reference Barry Manilow too often. :-)

[tsakshaug]

31. How long? who knows

After 20 years and two kids my ex decided she wanted out really the last five years of the marrage were non-marrage, we shared a house and bed, but that was her side, this was mine.

About two months out, a friend decided it was time for me to "get out there" she set me up with a succession of friends of hers. One sort of worked, but not well. But at dinner one night with the sort of working one, I met her best friend. I have been married to her best friend for three years now. Yes, they are still best friends.

I was divorced for less than a year before getting married. I did not plan on getting married soon, it just happened.

Is marrage a stupid instution? Sure, but it seems right this time.

[sendero]

32. Marriage...

... is for some people and not others. Myself, I *like* being married and when my last one ended I didn't waste much time looking for a new partner. It took me about 18 months to be "reattached" (not yet married, that came later to the woman I was reattached to), and I had one helluva good time during a year of those 18 months (the first 6 were for grieving and reassessing myself).

To me, if you want to have a "permanent" (and of course nothing in this universe is permanant so that is a an absolute yet relative term :)) partner - one is out there waiting - you just have to put your energy into finding her/him. The old saw about "wait, it will happen" is one I put absolutely no creedence in.

There are few things in life more satisfying than being with a committed partner who you trust completely. IMHO :) (Can ya tell I'm happily married? :))

[VOX]

33. 1st marriage = hell; 2nd = heaven; 18 years of purgatory in between...

First time out, I got married *way* too young. Was very immature (both of us were, actually).

Lived and loved the single life as a bit of an ascetic, with occasional dips and plunges into the pool of serial monogamy, but no knot-tying.

After 18 years (give or take a month) of this pattern, I fell crazy in love with a woman who was/is frighteningly terrific in the reciprocity department. We worked in the same office together (but a big office), and got to know each other over some time. (I always thought she was extemely beautiful and intelligent and talented, but, I'm a slow plugger.) Being a bit older and more mature actually helped us both to be closer -- we'd outgrown of some of those adolescent behaviors that tend to tank relationships, like a quarrel pursued for its own sake, or having to be "right" -- the usual corrosive stuff.

We'd been together for a few years before we actually "jumped the broom" -- the second marriage for each of us. We'd talked about it for awhile, but we finally reached a point where we wanted to honor our relationship with that level of public declaration. It just felt so right all around.

So, not only will I step up to the microphone and unequivocally say, "it'll be okay, dude -- you'll be fine," but I'll you one farther, and say, "it'll be great."

Hang in there, FG -- with your highly developed wit and smarts, I can't get too worried about your future!

:toast: