CNN has turned into the Catholic News Network

[Sannum]

[Tektonik]

1. A much welcomed reprieve from...

the Communist News Network :P

[arcos]

2. For once this amount of coverage IS justified...

As I've said, I am not a Catholic but over a billion people on Earth are. Nearly 70% of my country and 25% of Americans are Catholic. It is absolutely justified.

[Sannum]

3. I realize that

The coverage is most certanly justified, unlike TerriWatch. I am learning some things I did not know about the man.

I was just trying to lighten the mood. These weeks on DU have been very heavy.

[Chovexani]

7. Hasn't it been weird as hell lately on DU?

Even the Lounge hasn't been the same. :(

[Sannum]

11. I know...

People have been very defensive and easily offended. I did not mean anything negative in my message about the Pope...

[jonnyblitz]

41. yup., first the easily offended lashed out and then the backlash

against the easily offended occured.

[arcos]

16. I agree on all counts...

Unlike TerriTV, this will affect lots of people around the world... and since John Paul II was elected a year before I was born, he's the only Pope I've known. The whole process is very interesting to me and I want to learn about it.

And yes, sadly everything has been heavy for a while now... x(

[pres2032]

4. eaxctly

no matter you're feelings for the man, his death is affects over a billion people, they're coverage is very justified.

[AuntiBush]

22. Pope DID NOT like BUSH at ALL citing MSNBC

Moments ago, MSNBC noted the 2004 Bush visit, citing Chimp & the Pope had words. The Pope let Bush know he was against the Iraq invasion, torture, etc., and went on to state that the Pope & Chimp had to pass that conversation on.

Obviously, even the Pope couldn't get thru Chimp's empty-skull.

[onager]

9. I doubt that.

I constantly see Catholic DU'ers brag about "1.1 billion Catholics worldwide!" and "60 million American Catholics!"

You guys sound like McDonald's.

Of course, those figures come from the Catholic Church itself. The "60 million Americans" has been used for decades now...probably since the 1940's.

If that's true, then why are dioceses consolidating and churches closing in Boston--one of the most Catholic cities in America? And why are we constantly hearing about the critical shortage of nuns and priests?

Those numbers are based on all the people baptized Catholic...when they were helpless infants and couldn't do anything about it.

[arcos]

25. Did you miss where I said I was not a Catholic?

Nearly 70% of the people in my country consider themselves Catholics. This is not the amount of people who were baptized as Catholics, this is what people say their religious faith is in polls.

Also, in exit polls in the US, usually around 25% of voters consider themselves Catholics... is that a figure coming from the Church itself? Sure, maybe Catholics vote in large numbers... but still I doubt very much they are less than 20% of the US population.

[onager]

54. No. Did you miss my other questions?

I'm still waiting for an explanation of the Incredible Shrinking Dioceses. And the numbers of American Catholic churches closing. And the "critical" shortage of nuns and priests.

The actual numbers are probably closer to David Carlin's figures in his book The Decline and Fall of Roman Catholicism in America. Carlin estimated the real number of American Catholics at about 20 to 25 million.

And people are not exactly lining up to serve the corporation, according to those agnostics and troublemakers over at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Though the Conference touts the "60 million American Catholics" number and does a lot of cheerleading about "growing numbers of members," it also has a report online entitled The Study of the Impact of Fewer Priests on the Pastoral Ministry:

http://www.usccb.org/plm/summary.htm

The ratio of priests to people in 1900 was approximately 1 in 900. In 1950 the ratio was approximately 1:650. In 1999 the ratio was approximately 1:1200...

There are 433 priests over the age of 90 and 298 priests under the age of 30...

In terms of ethnic diversity today's priests are overwhelmingly Caucasian. One percent of all priests are African American; 3 percent of all priests are Hispanic/Latino; 2 percent of all priests are Asian/Pacific Islanders. All of these reflect increases over the past 5 years.

With 1.1 billion members all over the world, you'd think they could find at least a few more non-Caucasians, too.

Maybe it's one of those miracle things that us atheists always have trouble following.

[arcos]

56. So? I never said the Catholic Church is growing...

And I personally think it is good its influence is shrinking.

Still... according to exit polls, in the 2004 elections 27% of voters were Catholic. Do you really think Catholics turn out to vote in much bigger numbers than people of other religions?

I think that's a fairly safe indicator... sure, maybe 27% of Americans are not Catholic, but it would be hard for that number to be less than 20%. How many of them are involved with the church is another matter entirely... certainly fewer people are interested in being involved as priests or nuns.

If you didn't miss when I said I was not Catholic, I'm even more puzzled by your "you guys" comment, like I was one. It doesn't make any sense at all.

[saracat]

5. The Pope is a A HEAD OF STATE! He is an international

peacemaker as well as the leader of the worlds oldest Christian religion. His death is always newsworthy as well as are his diplomatic efforts. No other pontiff has done as much for ME peace. What part of news maker don't people get? He was more important to the fall of communism than Regan! and much more important internationally. He deserves recognition!

[JVS]

8. He is not the leader of Orthodoxy.

[saracat]

13. And that is relevant how?

[JVS]

15. You claimed he was head of the oldest Christian religion, he's not.

[saracat]

17. Yes. He is. As a matter of historical fact. He is decended "from the chair

of Peter"

[JohnKleeb]

18. I believe actually that Orthodoxy iis the second

Rome and Constanipole had their schism in 1054 I believe.

[pres2032]

20. about that

the Catholic Church is definitely the oldest, goes back to Peter.

[JohnKleeb]

21. Yeah I thought so

Orthodoxy is the second.

[pres2032]

23. right, the Catholic Church is the original christian church

all the others broke off of us.

[JohnKleeb]

27. indeed, I believe the first christian country was Armenia

Not sure if they're still Catholic though.

[pres2032]

28. the first christian country was the Roman Empire

though possibly Greece

[JohnKleeb]

29. Are you sure? I thought it was Armenia

Wait my bad, I think they were the first one to make it their main religion.

[pres2032]

31. did Armenia do it before 300 AD?

remember, Christianity was started in the Roman Empire. almost every where the first christians went was Roman territory.

[JVS]

43. You were right

[JohnKleeb]

47. I thought so, I remember that always being a trick question on tests

most people think oh Rome, but its Armenia I think. Wasnt the first country to have christianity it of course but they accepted it first I guess.

[JVS]

38. Aremenia was the 1st officially Christian country

The Roman Empire was still persecuting while Armenia was Christian

[JVS]

36. They were always Orthodox and remain so to this day

[JVS]

34. That is just what the Western schismatics tell themselves as justification

[JVS]

30. Rome is the one that broke away from Orthodoxy

"Due to a variety of complex circumstances, the Western church, known today as the "Roman Catholic Church," split from the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchates of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch in the 11th century. Roman Catholics, however, see it from the opposite perspective, namely that the Orthodox Church broke communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

We Orthodox believe that we are the continuation of the ancient Orthodox Christian Church, that we trace our history back to Christ and the apostles, and that the Church was "formally" established on the day of Pentecost. The Roman Catholic Church placed itself outside of this fellowship when it broke off communion with us in the 11th century.

This is a very brief outline; a thorough treatment of the issue would fill volumes, and there are many resources readily available should you wish to research the history of this further. For more information I would recommend that you check links on Church history. Or you may wish to read the book by Bishop Kallistos Ware called "The Orthodox Church," which gives the historical background in detail."

http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=26&SID=3

[pres2032]

33. so it's a matter of opinion

or a matter of point of view.

either way, the Pope ascends from Peter the Apostle.

[JVS]

39. Not really, since the Orthodox have less councils that alter the faith

[pres2032]

44. so then how do you reconcile all the orthodox churches?

all which have variations in their practice?

[JVS]

48. The same way you can reconcile Roman Catholic with the Maronites...

and the Uniate Church that formed in Ukraine in the mid ages (aka Byzantine Catholic)

[pres2032]

49. ok, fair enough

so getting back to your original post, are you saying that because he's not the leader of the "oldest" church, does that mean he doesn't deserve all this attention? in your defense of orthodoxy, i'm assuming you're practicing? so couldn't you sympathize with all that's going on?

[JVS]

58. I'm just correcting a factual error

[JohnKleeb]

35. So you're telling me that England was considered Orthodox until 1054

[JVS]

42. England was part of the Western church that had been drifting from...

Orthodoxy for several hundred years. 1054 is when the ever increasing claims of authority of the bishop of Rome not being recognized finally angered him to the point of breaking away and excommunicating the 4 Eastern patriarchs

[JohnKleeb]

Gotcha

[Sanity Claws]

40. Thanks for the summary

Actually aren't there two major lines of orthodoxy? There was a split in or around the 5th century, resulting in a line that includes the Coptic Christians and another line that includes the Greek and Russian orthodox churches. Which one is considered to be older or more faithful to the original teachings?
Also, do you know whether the Orthodox version of the New Testament is different from the Catholic version?

[JohnKleeb]

45. Yeah I think so

There's something called Greek Catholicism or something like that in which the followers consider themselves Catholic but have their holidays as if they were Orthodox. That is what my grandmother was before she converted to Roman Catholicism.

[Sanity Claws]

50. Not familiar with Greek Catholics

I was thinking about a separate line of orthodox churches. The one we hear less about here in the west include the Egyptian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox and several others in the Middle East area. I don't know very much about them.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Neither was I until I found out that my grandma wasnt always RC

[NoPasaran]

53. That line includes the Uniate Church of Western Ukraine

Which acknowledges the authority of the Pope but otherwise follows Orthodox rite including celebrating holidays according to the Julian Calender. This church owes its origins to the division of Ukraine between Poland and Russia some centuries ago... the Eastern Ukraine (which was under the tsars) was Orthodox.

[Dutch]

52. matter of perspective i think

Both churches trace their origins to the apostles, both regard each other as schismatic: put painfully simplistically the Catholics see the Orthodox as a breakaway and the Orthodox see the Roman Chruch as a patriarchate of orthodoxy that got pretensions above its station and tried to impose itself over the rest. But of course many Protestant groups believe their practises to be far more in line with primitve, NT-era Christianity. Then of course there are Uniates....

[Swede]

24. The Catholic church was started by the apostles.

So I guess that would make it the oldest Christian religion.

[JVS]

32. The orthodox church was founded by the apostles

what is more, it made less alterations to the faith

[Swede]

46. Well I guess we'll have to disagree.

nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Redstone]

37. How nice of you to share your thoughts...

And I certainly hope that when someone who you admire and have strong feelings for is dying, that people are as kind to you as you are to the Catholics in their time of grief.

Didn't your mama raise you to have any manners?

Redstone

[Sanity Claws]

6. You should have heard what CNN radio said

I was listening to Air America earlier today and CNN radio news comes on at the half hour and hour. The CNN announcer actually said that this pope was the first non-CATHOLIC pope in three centuries. What fucking idiots! He is very Catholic; however, he is the first non-ITALIAN to serve as pope in a very long time.
Can you imagine something that basic slipped by the writer, the editor and the newsreader? CNN is definitely run by "morans."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

12. Next they'll say bears don't shit in the trees. (nt)

[AuntiBush]

14. Non-Catholic Pope?!? CNN = IDIOTIC MEDIA WHORES!

A-holes!

[Sequoia]

19. He's from a small town in Poland that has the original Black Madonna

[AuntiBush]

10. MSNBC must be a close second.

[catbert836]

55. The pope happens to be a VERY important man

For example, would you justify 24-hour coverage if Bill Clinton was on death's door? Or would CNN be "Clinton News Network"? See? The Pope is a very important head of state, and he at least deserves some respect as he is on death's door. He's the spiritual leader of 1/6 of the earth's population. Yes, I think this amount of coverage is certainly justified.

[redsoxliberal]

57. agree strongly.