Can any of you cat people help me out?

[two gun sid]

I've never had a cat before. I now have a neutered male stray. He's been to the vet regularly since I got him. He is about 3-4 yrs. old. Last week he quit urinating. I took him to the vet and had a cath inserted. It was touch and go for a couple of days. I got him home and he is urinating but not a lot. He does not have much appetite and is a little sluggish. He is on antibiotics. His kidneys were damaged but I have to take him back Friday to get bloodwork to see how they're doing.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can help him? Is this something that will happen again?(My vet said it could). Also, somebody got a good suggestion on giving a cat liquid medicine? I get more of it on him and me than in him.

Thanks.

[crispini]

1. Sounds like, what is it, FUS?

Feline Urological Syndrome?

The first thing you wanna do is put him on a very low-ash cat food, if that's what he has. I'm surprised your Dr. didn't recommend it. Probably science diet has one.

Liquid meds? good luck, I find pills much easier! :shrug:

[two gun sid]

4. I'm giving him canned with water added.

As much as he can stand. My vet said to do this. She also said to encourage him to drink. Yeah, like I can do that.


Thanks.

[Lars39]

7. Ice cubes in his water bowl might spark an interest.

Cats(or at least mine)like cold water, and the cubes give them hunting ideas. Hope your kitty gets to feeling better.

[two gun sid]

10. Thanks. I'll try it.

[crispini]

17. What *kind* of canned?

If he's got crystals forming in the bladder -- that is what FUS is -- then you need to look for canned that says "low ash" on the label. Most cat food has high ash content and that's not good for kitties with FUS.

[two gun sid]

36. He's not forming crystals.

I had the urine tested when they cathed him. I can't remember what kind of food it was I just threw the garbage out and I'll go to the store tomorrow. I'll make sure I check for ash content though.

Thanks.

[shraby]

2. Don't know anything about his sickness, but

if you take an eyedropper and put it at the edge of the corner of his mouth and squirt really slow, he'll lap and end up with more medicine in him than on you.

[two gun sid]

11. I tried that. The knucklehead fights me the whole time.

I thought liquid would be easier than pills. Guess I was wrong.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. Did they do an Xray? Bladder stones can cause this sort of trouble.

After removal a diet of Hill's C/D dry for cats is usually recommended. But I would ask for an xray if he hasn't already had one. This can kill an animal pretty quickly. :hi:

[two gun sid]

6. Had x-rays. Nothing unusual except his bladder....

was huge and pressing on kidneys. After they cathed him everything looked good.


Thanks.

[Richard Steele]

5. Our 'Colonel Thompson' had that problem...

We keep him on a special dry food to regulate his urinary Ph balance, no problems for 18 months now.

As far as giving him medicine, that's a battle of wills. Good luck!

[two gun sid]

9. What was the name of the food?

I've had Puppy-cat for 1 1/2 yrs. and he never did anything like this.

[Richard Steele]

13. hang on while I go look....

Ok, the bag is "IVD" brand (Innovative Veterinary Diets)

And it just says 'Control Formula'

We get it from the vet.
It's kinda pricey, but no more than some of the IAMS and 'Science Diet' varietys.

Our cat was about 2 or 2 1/2 yrs before this showed up.

Also, try giving him distilled water to drink instead of tapwater. It's all about the acid/alkaline balance in his system.

[two gun sid]

15. Thank-you. Thank-you.

I've always been a dog person but, I've got kinda attached to this punk.

[Richard Steele]

18. Yer very welcome

I hope Puppy-cat comes through OK!

[calico1]

8. I suggest you look into getting

him a drinking fountain like Drinkwell if you can. My cats all drink LOTS more water since I have had this then they did with a regular bowl.

[two gun sid]

12. That sounds like something that might work.

I'll look at them tomorrow at the local pet store. I would like him to drink more.

Thanks.

[uppityperson]

26. Running water

a small fountain, or even a fishtank water mover thing may be attractive enough to drink more. Knew some people who hooked up a small water mover thing from a fishtank in their laundryroom sink, dribbled water into a bowl in the sink that had the pump end of the fountain in it. Cats loved it. Mine drink from the fish filter all the time (saying me having to change the water, just add more). If you ever notice him squatting like he has to pee and just staying there for more than a minute, take him to the vet right away because his urethra may be plugged and he'll go into kidney failure and die within a day or 2.

[Lindacooks]

39. Yes, and a slowly running faucet is the best.

All of our cats love water dripping out of the faucet - one will stay there for a long time playing with the water and drinking it.

[ET Awful]

22. Quinn and Althea lover their Freshflow

which is kind of like a Drinkwell, but more of a waterfall than a fountain :).

They both drink out of it quite a bit (when they aren't drinking out of the toilet that is).

[benny05]

14. I would get him as hydrated as possible

The loss of appetite is not unusual. Feline k/d® - Dry or wet, if it encourages him to eat. The stuff makes them want to drink more water, and he needs to drink as often as possible.

When you take him back to the vet, if the blood turns out to be weak, see if your vet can hydrate him via IV for a couple of days.

My cat got into some ipuprofen when he was 3 years old--nearly 2 years ago. He was experiencing renal failure. We ended up putting him in the hospital for 5 days and had him hydrated with some anti-biotics. He was very tired for the first week. he didn't eat much, but I kept feeding the k/d him a little at a time. He made it through, and is very healthy today.

Good luck! And don't worry about the vet bills. It's only money, and you will make more of it and get it back. A sweet cat is worth every penny.

[two gun sid]

25. He was hydrated over the weekend.

The money doesn't matter. I'm lucky I have a good job.
I'm glad your cat made it.

Thanks.

[BrklynLiberal]

16. Seeif you can a syringe-like thingy to give him the liquid meds. I got

one from my vet. You fill it from the meds, up to the appropriate line, and then put it into the kitty's mouth..and push the plunger, and the meds should go right down the throat.

Low ash food is a great idea.

The water "fountain" is also supposed to encourage them to drink more. That is why some cats like to drink from the dripping faucet. Maybe if you let a faucet drip a little until you get the fountain..

PS Love his name!

[two gun sid]

27. Got a dropper. I just suck using it.

Thanks for your advice.

[khashka]

19. A Low Ash Diet

There are special foods available at the grocery store (so they are easy to get and particularly expensive) that are low ash. The vet should have told you that.

Cats often don't urinate a lot. Their bodies conserve water by concentrating to urine - a lot of waste products in a relatively small amount of water, which is why it smells so strongly.

Your description of him, well, he sounds ill. You might want to consult another vet if you are worried. The again he may may be just going through the recovery process and probably doesn't feel very good.

If it is FUS, which is very common, a low ash diet is essential.

Medication. Vets say mix it with food, but it's often very bitter and they refuse to eat the food. The vet should have given you some syringes (without needles). Take your cat and wrap him in a towel to keep him immobile. Put the syringe in the corner of his mouth, towards the back. And give him the medication. Rubbing his throat may well induce him to swallow. If you get it in his mouth but he won't swallow, hold his mouth closed while rubbing his throat. Do all this as gently as possible. It's not gonna be a lot of fun for you or him, but it usually works and gentleness is the key. Also when you do this, if the medication is very bitter, you can mix it with a little milk and (a very little) sugar. Just enough to cut the taste and make it easier to go down.


I hope some of that was helpful.

Khash.

[two gun sid]

28. Thanks for all the good info.

I think that towel method just might work. I'm afraid of hurting him cause I know he is sore and doesn't feel well. That low ash diet is what everyone is saying and I don't remember my vet saying anything about it. Just that I should feed him watered down canned.

[DustMolecule]

20. Poor little fella

For getting him to drink more water, you can try sitting with your cat (with a cup of water by your side) and dip your finger in the water then hold your finger by the cat's mouth - with some luck, he might lick some water from your fingers - a little bit of water in his system will be better than none. He also might take some water from the medicine dropper if you do it slowly/gently.

When I administer medicine to my cats, I kneel/sit on the floor with the cat between my legs facing outwards (they love to 'back-up', away from the medicine, but this way they can't). Gently hold the cats torso with one hand, while putting the dropper to his mouth. This generally gets more in the cat then on the owner.

Hope this helps and good luck with your little cat!

[two gun sid]

29. Thanks.

I've got a couple of good ideas from you guys on giving meds. Thanks again.

[NV Whino]

21. Giving meds

My trick is to kneel on floor. Capture cat between legs with his back to you. Use left hand to drab upper jaw and pull open. With right hand insert med dropper into mouth and squirt meds down throat. (This assumes you are right handed, use opposite combination in left handed.) Make sure you shoot for the throat and not just the tongue. Don't try to be nice. Nice doesn't work. Nice is messy. Nice gets meds all over you and exterior of cat. Quick and fast is best. This works for pills, too, except you need to hold mouth closed and rub throat a bit to get them to swallow.

[two gun sid]

31. Thanks.

I've got to get better at this giving meds soon. I'm gettin' tired of fighting him.

[NV Whino]

43. There is also the "wrap him in a towel" method.

I've never found that to be effective myself. I always seem to need three hands and five arms to make that work. Plus takes more time and really pisses off the cat. I think speed is the real key. Get the odious job over with as quickly as you can.

[NYC]

23. If this is cystitis, ask the vet about giving him Vitamin C.

In addition to NEVER giving dry food, and be careful about wet food contents, my vet told me to give my neutered male cat with recurrent bouts of cystitis Vitamin C. (I can't remember the dose. It was a long time ago.)

The Vitamin C put acid in the urine which helped prevent the formation of crystals which blocked the urethra.

Please ask the vet about Vitamin C. My cat lived for years after that, and never had a recurrence.

[two gun sid]

33. I'll ask my vet about that.

Thanks.

[pansypoo53219]

24. is he a black male?

i learned from my uncle's girlfriend that way back when dry food could kill black males because of ash. luckily my black male REFUSED to touch dry. fucking smart boy.
wonder if this is a similar issue.

[NYC]

30. I had a black male cat who never had this problem.

He was almost 24 years old when he died.

The cat who did have the problem was a grey and white tuxedo design.

Male cats suffer more from this because they have narrower urethras. When the urethra is scarred, it narrows even more from the scar tissue.

Any urinary blockage can kill a cat (male or female) very quickly.

P.S. To the original poster:

Pills are easier than liquid. You push it down the throat, and you are assured that the cat got the full dose. Use the kneeling, prying mouth open directions given above for liquid medicine. Approach is the same.

Good luck.

[two gun sid]

34. He's a gray tiger.

Thanks.

[yo-yo-ma]

32. pushing lots of water isn't the solution

because it doesn't sound like a kidney problem

I mean - I don't know exactly but I'm a human doctor and have had many cats. From the xray you said that his bladder was grossly distended. This means that his kidneys are producing urine. Sounds loike he has urinary retention and filling him with IV or sub q fluids will only make that baldder fill faster. Most of the prior posts refer to the treatmetn kidney diseases in cats (rather common) different, I think, from whats going on with you.

It's unclear what's caused the urinary retention. It doesn't sound like the vet knows. It could be an infection, but, with the proper antibiotic, he should get better not worse. Other things that could cause it are stones (as mentioned above), if a stone lodges blocking the urethra, these tend to be quite painful. (Here is a situation where heavy hydration would work) Other things are neurological, the nerves to the bladder aren't functioning well (doesn't sense when its full - from something in the spinal cord)-- very very rare; or a growth or tumor inside of the bladder -- also very very rare and perhaps could have been seen on xray.

You need a diagnosis, and if the cat's getting worse, take him in. Tests that could help would be (and they might have done) - looking at the urine for both stones and infection, urine culture, blood tests for infection - a panel like that costs less than $50.

Bottom line - if he's drinking (normally - cats don't drink a lot, compared to dogs) but peeing less, he could easily still have urinary retention. Cathing the bladder just makes it go away temporarily. Then the urine accumulates and the bladder expands, until finally it can't grow any more and then it literally starts to spill over - which you see in small bits of urine.

Please take him in. And please don't force the water.

You're a good person to care -

It is very hard to read a sick animal.

Best of luck

[two gun sid]

35. Thanks Doc

I had some test done on the urine. My vet was looking for crystals. She didn't see any and she was not sure why he was retaining urine. I wondered about the kidneys being damaged but still producing urine. That didn't make sense but, I know nothing about taking care of cats.
I'll keep as close an eye on him as I can. He seems alright just sluggish. One more question. Could the antibiotic make him sluggish?

Thanks.

[yo-yo-ma]

40. antibiotics shouldn't make him sluggish

from what I understand, he's been on them for several days - in that period of time, most of the infection the medicine was intended to treat will have been wiped out (but you should continue the medicine until finished so as not to allow the few remaining to return with a drug Resistance). The antibiotics might also have been prescribed to prevent an infection from the catheterization and are not being given primarily to treat something.

All drugs have side effects and these are even harder to measure in animals. But, given the overall picture, I would assume that the sluggishness is related to the urinary retention and to whatever is causing that, rather than to think it's from the medicine. In either case, we still don't know what's behind this.

Trust your instincts - which you do - if something seems wrong, it probably is.

As for looking for crystals - crystals can form in certain processes in the kidneys which can be seen in the urine, but usually from more chronic things -- but the vet may have been also looking for stones. Stones can be hard to see - in humans we sometimes collects all urine and strain it - as not seeing a stone in a small bit of urine doesn't mean there isn't one there.


I agree with the post below - perhaps better to take him to a different vet.

[khashka]

37. As a person with a cat

Thank you for all the information.

You advise him to take the cat in. I agree. And I'll say again, that it might be a good idea to take him in to see a different vet. Vets are like doctors (or any other professional) some are better at their jobs than others. And sick animals are very hard to deal with medically, because they can't tell you their symptoms or how they feel. Some people read animals better than others.

I do worry about the fact that a bunch of nonprofessionals gave more advice than the vet about how to do things as simple as give medication. And that a doctor explained what could be wrong and how it could diagnosed better than the vet did.

If nothing else, a second opinion is in order. And make sure you choose your vet like you choose your doctor. He or she should know what they are doing - and the best way I know of judging that is if they can explain it to you. It just sounds like nothing was explained in this case. Not even helpful hints. And it bugs me.

Khash.
(I don't want anyone to think I'm slamming vets, I've met a lot of really amazing ones. My vet took care of one of my cats for 27 years! That she lived that long, healthily, was due in good measure to the vet. And when it came time to put her to sleep, the vet cried like a baby.)

[Eloriel]

38. has the vet counseled you about diet? also advice re administering

Re diet, there are some brands of dry cat food that are horrible on cat's urinary systems and basically shut them down, and there are some cats and breeds that are especially susceptible. I can't give you specifics (other than that Siamese seem to be one of the susceptible breeds, from our experience), because it's been a while since we had that problem.

The way I give liquid or non-liquid meds to cats is this. First of all, get a dropper or a plastic syringe (available from most drug stores) for the liquid stuff.

I set him on the kitchen counter or other suitable comfortable for me spot, wrap my left arm around him (which helps keep him in place) and use my left hand to grab his lower jaw and open his mouth and rather quickly spray the liquid stuff into said mouth. Sometimes (esp. with non liquids) I have to gently hold his mouth closed so he doesn't spit the pill out.

You might also ask your vet to demo how to give cats meds.

Good luck!

[two gun sid]

41. I got a lot of good diet info from y'all.

I think I got the medicine thing down. I gave him his evening dose a little while ago and didn't have trouble. I have race horses and we worm them ourselves but I think I was being too careful so I didn't hurt him. I got him medicated and didn't hurt him so now I'll just wait and see if he gets better. He sure acted like he wasn't hurtin' after he got his medicine. He took off like a cat outta hell.


Thanks.

[napi21]

42. Your vet can answer you about the urinating, but the food....

My cat (age 14) scared me last year when he hid under the middle of our waterbed and wouldn't eat or drink anything. I called my vet, and she suggested offering regular people canned tuna fish. Try the liquid first. Almost every cat loves it, and if anything is going to entice them, that will. It too several days, but my Garfield got better as fast as he got sick, and he did eat some of the tuna. The one big thing you have to worry about is dehydration, so your kitty has to get some liquid in him somehow.

I would also call your vet in the morning if you still feel he isn't urinating enough. It might be due to him not drinking anything, but I would check to be sure.