"I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around

[Skip Intro]

anyhow"

Just sung on the grammys.

"Watergate did not bother me" too

Hey Lynrd Skynrd, this southern man says FU.

edit: misspelled lynrd skynrd

[NightTrain]

1. It's "Lynyrd Skynyrd."

Truth be told, "Sweet Home Alabama" is the one L.S. tune I can stand. That's mainly due to the third verse, which gives a big tip o' the hat to the Muscle Shoals soul music scene!

[Skip Intro]

5. yikes - fixed it

:D

[FlashHarry]

2. Alabama, you've got the rest of the Union to help you along...

...what's going wrong?

[solinvictus]

8. Ummm...

Skynyrd's from Florida, not Alabama.

[chookie]

21. a semi-personal note

I know how they got their start: they broke in my (then very young) ex's house and stole his guitar (Jacksonville). Everyone knew they done it. It was a joke that my (then young) ex had given them their start. He met them again after they were big and said -- "I helped you get started!" and they recognized him and they all laughed. There was no hard feelings, but always a good story.

(PS never like 'em one bit)

[Sgent]

32. He should have asked for

an autographed guitar in payment (autograph is interest).

[TyeDye75]

54. still a great line

[cry baby]

3. "There ain't nuthin' like a Skynard crowd"!

[MrSlayer]

4. Yes, a proud to be racist song.

How nice.

[ZoCrowes]

10. BULLSHIT!!!

The guys in Skynyrd were FAAAAR from racist. Go listen to the Ballad of Curtis Loew. They used to get the shit kicked out of them in Jax for having long hair and listening to black music (blues and Muscle Shoals R&B)

[MrSlayer]

31. That's how it comes off to me.

If Neil Young is saying in "Southern Man" that the way they treat blacks is deplorable and they turn around and tell him to butt out of their business it says to me that they don't want anyone to tell them that they shouldn't act that way. To me that's supporting the racist aspects of Southern society. Being that 70's rock isn't my area of expertise (outside of Zep and a few others) I could be wrong but that's the way it's always seemed to me.

How do you interpret it?

[Syrinx]

43. "Southern Man" and "Alabama"

Both of those songs painted with a very broad brush, and that is what RVZ was responding to. The thought of "Sweet Home Alabama" being a racist song honestly never crossed my mind, until I came to DU, and for some reason this topic comes up from time to time.

[Guaranteed]

56. "Southern man don't need him around, anyhow"

Translation: Hey, we tried to secede.

[Syrinx]

61. wrong

Translation: "Quit your condescending preaching; we get it, already."

[Radical Activist]

62. translation: we don't need you self righteous yankees to come south

and try to solve our race problems when you aren't even dealing with your own.

[Guaranteed]

57. I agree. Sounds like they're defending lynchings, to me.

Hey, screw you for being against lynchings, man!

[Syrinx]

12. where in the heck did you get that idea?

:shrug:

[ChoralScholar]

16. you do have to wonder about this verse:

You could infer a lot of things from this verse


In Birmingham they loved the Governor
We all did what we could do.
Watergate does not bother me,
Does your conscience bother you,
now tell the truth....

[ZoCrowes]

18. You forgot the most important part

BOO BOO BOO

[mitchum]

25. And "...THEY love the governor"...

certainly doesn't sound like "I" or "WE", does it?

[Sequoia]

53. Makes me think of the police w/ dogs and fire hose attacking

blacks during the Civil Rights movement in 1965.

[mitchum]

24. Man, that's an incredibly dumbass thing to say...

go back and really listen to the lyrics again.
And don't judge the original band's progressivism and genius by that travesty that is out there today

[MrSlayer]

45. See my above comment for explanation.

And see if my reasoning is "dumbassed". That's the way it's always come off to me. Tell me why I'm wrong.

[mitchum]

48. Because blanket indictments are wrong...

whether it's a blanket indictment that covers southerners, African Americans, women, or whoever (except maybe modern republicans :))
Ex: If I said all Canadians were self-righteous dipshits just because of this idiocy of Young's, I would be wrong.
And I'm really not going to get into how African American males of the south are also "Southern Men" because then I would be reasoning that obviously Young doesn't consider them men. And that would be wrong, but I could certainly "reason" that.
All that being said, I really like the majority of Young's work :)

Van Zant's response was a very pointed rejoinder to that type of thinking on Young's part. It really is all there in the lyrics to "Sweet Home Alabama" See some of my explication of the lyrics in posts lower in the thread.

My apologies, If I came off as considering you a dumbass. I don't.

peace,
mitchum

[Guaranteed]

58. But they give no admission to what actually was going on.

They don't say, "Hey, I know it's wrong, but I got nothing to do with it, AND in fact I'M DOING MY PART TO STOP IT."

They say, shut up, you Yankee bastard. We don't want you around.

[mitchum]

59. Maybe because if they had blatantly said that, it would have come off...

as didactic and preachy (like "Southern Man"), rather than artful.
Like Tennessee Williams and William Faulkner, Van Zant delighted in his mastery of the subtleties of language. Ex: It's not "don't WANT", but "don't NEED" There is a difference.
Maybe this facility with language and meaning is one of the reasons that southerners ruled 20th century American literature. Not bad for a bunch of ignorant inbred hicks, is it?

[ZoCrowes]

6. Was a response

to Neil's song "Alabama" which is a very preachy song condemning an entire state as racist. RVZ and Neil Young were actually friends from what I have read. It was a good natured tounge in cheek lobbied towards a friend

[mitchum]

28. You're right: "Southern Man" IS an incredibly preachy song...

not one of Young's finest moments.
However, I always crack up at:
"swear by god, I'm gonna cut him down"
Neil, are you personally going to cut him down? Or are you going to have a member of the crew do it?
The song would have been far better as an instrumental.

[John Q. Citizen]

42. Neil didn't get anywhere near as much flack for

"Southern Man" as he did for "A man needs a maid," which is kind of funny since the latter song drew ire and fire from some feminists who didn't bother to listen to the words and jumped to conclusions.

[mitchum]

A very good point

[madrchsod]

7. nice to hear some real fucking kick ass

rock and roll..that urban kid sounded like he can hold his own with those guys...

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Grandpa pissed his pants again,

He don't give a damn.
Brother Billy has both guns drawn,
he ain't been right since Vietnam

Sweet home Alabama,
play that dead band's song.
turn the speakers up full blast,
Play it all night long.
-W. Zevon (RIP)

[mitchum]

27. And Zevon himself told me that he considered Van Zant...

an incredibly gifted songwriter.

[John Q. Citizen]

33. Is that as in Townes Van Zandt?

I love his song "Flying Shoes."

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Oh, Ronnie.

I was never a huge LS fan, not that I had anything against them, only that I grew up on the West Coast and didn't really get all that exposed to LS on an intimate level.

[mitchum]

36. Nope, Ronnie Van Zant (singer and lyricist for LZ)...

but I imagine that Zevon also had a great deal of respect for Townes Van Zandt's abilities also. He was another brilliant songwriter.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

11. .

[benny05]

13. Southern Fried Rock

Served up nicely tonight..w/combos of Freeper partisans. Dickie Betts still knocked my socks off as he did 34 years ago with "Ramblin' Man"...still looking good beyond the Freeper perfomers, but still collaborators.." good thing. :beer:

[Bluzmann57]

14. Well this Midwestern man says

I like Skynyrd and don't give a damn what anyone else says. I like Neil Young too. Listen to "Things Goin' on" and Saturday Night Special" and "That smell" sometime and then maybe you all can come back and tell me about how fucked up they were just because they're southerners. As far as Rock and Roll music is concerned, the Southern U.S. cranked out some damn fine music, especially in the '70s. Long live the Freebird!

[Zensea]

15. FWIW billy talbot wore a lynryd skyrnd t-shirt on the live rust tour

on stage

I think Neil Young and Crazy Horse actually got along with the actual band fine.

[Liberal_Andy]

19. not only that, Ronnie VZ has a "Tonight's The Night" shirt on...

the cover of "Street Survivors"

[Zensea]

20. yeah it's in that article NSMA linked to

I was just looking at it. I didn't know that part of the story.
Has this interesting piece of info too

As for the rumor that Lynyrd Skynyrd recorded the Neil Young song Powderfinger (see for lyrics analysis), here's an interview with MOJO Magazine , where Young said:

"Lynyrd Skynyrd almost ended up recording Powderfinger before my version came out. We sent them an early demo of it because they wanted to do one of my songs.

Interviewer Q. Surprising, that. After all, Lynyrd Skynyrd put you down by name on Sweet Home Alabama, their first hit single....

Young: Oh, they didn't really put me down! But then again, maybe they did! (laughs) But not in a way that matters. Shit, I think Sweet Home Alabama is a great song. I've actually performed it live a couple of times myself. "

In addition to the song "Powderfinger", Young allegedly also gave the band the song “Sedan Delivery” to record.

It should also be noted that shortly after the band was involved in a fatal plane accident, Neil Young performed a rare live version of "Alabama" at Bicentennial Park, Miami, Florida on 11-12-1977 for Children's Hospital Charity with The Gone With The Wind Orchestra and he changed the lyric chorus from "Alabama" to "Sweet Home Alabama".

[mitchum]

37. He was also buried in a Neil Young t-shirt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Read about the song here

There's quite a bit of irony in Greg Lewis's essay about using Neil Young's "Southern Man" and Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" as a metaphor for the 2004 election between John Kerry and George Bush. Really, the essay is quite remarkable. Aside from the fact that Lewis can't even spell the band's or Ronnie Van Zant's name correctly, his misunderstanding of both Young's and Skynyrd's songs is way off the mark.

Much as the right fundamentally misunderstood Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" and Neil Young's "Rockin' in the Free World", again there is a wholesale mis-appropriation of both Skynyrd's and Young's message.

Thrasher could go into it all again. But it's already all been said before in this analysis of Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama".

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/archive/2004_11_01_thrasherswheat_archive.html

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/jammin/lynyrd.htm

The band campaigned for Carter...saluted the artists in Muscle Shoals and there is a bit of controveresy surrounding how people have interpreted it.

It's almost a slap to the people who own that song as their own today.

[mitchum]

22. Well, if you don't get the pointedness in RVZ's brilliant lyric...

you may be unintentionally portraying yourself as the dumb southerner of stereotype

-the institutional racism of the south was a product of its government
-the Watergate scandal was a product of the US government
-Ronnie Van Zant was both a southerner and an American citizen
-as an American, he felt no personal shame for Watergate (since he had nothing to do with it)
So, why should he as a southerner feel personal shame for the official monstrous actions of southern authorities?

Also: "In Birmingham, THEY love the governor...boo, boo, boo"
He sure didn't say "...WE love the governor"

And remember, It sure took a hell of a lot more balls to walk around Jacksonville, FLA with long hair in 69 than San Fransisco

Listen to the song again (with an open mind)

[Floogeldy]

23. Yea fuck you Lynyrd Skynyrd

[ZoCrowes]

26. non

wrong thread

[PopSixSquish]

29. Didn't We Just Go Through This Discussion on DU a Few Weeks Back?

and doesn't anyone do any research on anything before coming to DU to rant/post?

Google is your friend.

[mitchum]

30. But preconceived notions always trump actually listening and facts...

didn't you know that? :)

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Randy Nuemann knew that too,

I used his song "Rednecks" to help my mom conquer her regionalism against the South.

My mom loved all kinds of music, and was very liberal, but she had the annoying misconception that anyone with a Southern accent was an ignorant racist.

At first she denied it, then she tried to rationalize it, and finally she copped to it, examined her own prejudice and changed.

The last 15 or 20 years of her life, one of her closest friends was a very smart and liberal woman from Alabama with a very thick Southern accent.

[sundog]

34. yeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaawwwwwww

:eyes:

[Mr. Blonde]

38. From the Drive By Truckers who are keeping the Souther Rock flame alive

RONNIE AND NEIL
(Hood / DBT)

Church blew up in Birmingham
Four little black girls killed for no goddamn good reason
All this hate and violence can't come to no good end
A stain on the good name.
A whole lot of good people dragged threw the blood and glass
Blood stains on their good names and all of us take the blame

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Wilson Pickett comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Aretha Franklin comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound

And out in California, a rock star from Canada writes a couple of great songs about the
Bad shit that went down
"Southern Man" and "Alabama" certainly told some truth
But there were a lot of good folks down here and Neil Young wasn't around

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Lynyrd Skynyrd came to town
To record with Jimmy Johnson at Muscle Shoals Sound
And they met some real good people, not racist pieces of shit
And they wrote a song about it and that song became a hit

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil
Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking there minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

Now Ronnie and Neil became good friends their feud was just in song
Skynyrd was a bunch of Neil Young fans and Neil he loved that song
So He wrote "Powderfinger" for Skynyrd to record
But Ronnie ended up singing "Sweet Home Alabama" to the lord

And Neil helped carry Ronnie in his casket to the ground
And to my way of thinking, us southern men need both of them around

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil
Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking their minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

[John Q. Citizen]

46. A very nice post, thanks, I love good lyrics! n/t

[alarimer]

60. I love that group

They have a very good song about George Wallace, of all people. But my favorite is new, Carl Perkins's Cadillac.

Life ain't nothing but a blending up of all the ups and downs
Dammit Elvis, don't you know
You made your Mama so proud
Before you ever made that record, before there ever was a Sun
Before you ever lost that Cadillac that Carl Perkins won

Mr. Phillips found old Johnny Cash and he was high
High before he ever took those pills and he's still too proud to die
Mr. Phillips never said anything behind nobody's back
Like "Dammit Elvis, don't he know, he ain't no Johnny Cash"

If Mr. Phillips was the only man that Jerry Lee still would call sir
Then I guess Mr. Phillips did all of Y'all about as good as you deserve
He did just what he said he was gonna do and the money came in sacks
New contracts and Carl Perkins' Cadillac

I got friends in Nashville, or at least they're folks I know
Nashville is where you go to see if what they said is so
Carl drove his brand new Cadillac to Nashville and he went downtown
This time they promised him a Grammy
He turned his Cadillac around

Mr. Phillips never blew enough hot air to need a little gold plated paperweight
He promised him a Cadillac and put the wind in Carl's face
He did just what he said he was gonna do and the money came in sacks
New contracts and Carl Perkins' Cadillac

Dammit Elvis, I swear son I think it's time you came around
Making money you can't spend ain't what being dead's about
You gave me all but one good reason not to do all the things you did
Now Cadillacs are fiberglass, if you were me you'd call it quits

[chicagojoe]

65. Just recently got into that band. I LOVE 'EM.

[Zomby Woof]

39. Thank you mitchum, NSMA, ZoCrowes, and others

Stepping up with the FACTS. I argued about the merits of Skynyrd and this song in TWO threads a few weeks ago, and am sick of the shit, lol.

[mitchum]

40. You're welcome...

I just kept in mind...WWZD? :)
Really, how hard is it to actually listen to the lyrics of a song? Apparently, pretty fucking hard.

[ZoCrowes]

44. Zomby

you and I have always seen eye to eye on Skynyrd

[enigami]

47. uh oh, another southern vs everybody else thread

This will be the second thread tonight I was in that gets locked.

wtf is it just the thing at DU to alienate everyone from the south?

[DrGonzoLives]

55. A very good question

Makes you wonder...

[RagingInMiami]

49. We go through this same discussion every few weeks

It's so tiresome. Anybody who hates LS because they believe the band to have been racist is simply ignorant. You guys should keep that ignorance to yourselves, for your own benefit.

[AntiCoup2K4]

50. Just remember that Skynyrd also recorded "Saturday Night Special"

A surprisingly progressive message about handgun violence from a bunch of good ol' Southern boys.

I have no problems with the real Skynyrd, but I can't stand little brother and the tribute band continuing to milk the name.And don't get me started on their sudden shift to Busheep politics which has to have Ronnie doing some serious cartwheels in his grave.

[Toby109]

51. As a lifelong Skynyrd fan

and a liberal, I do not see any conflict of interest here. However, I must say that the heart and soul of Lynyrd Skynyrd WAS Ronnie Van Zant and he died in 1977.

[DinahMoeHum]

52. Agreed. Last night's version was a faint shadow of themselves.

n/t

[WilliamPitt]

63. Here we go again

Skynard were good Dems who campaigned for Carter. Ask ZombyWoof; he has the dossier...and yes, this has come up a few times in here.

[tcfrogs]

64. Will, it was refuted repeatedly last night

A Skynyrd love-fest, if you will...

You just found one of the early threads...

[Swamp Rat]

66. Lynyrd Skynyrd...

A great LIBERAL band from the South.

Listen. To. The. Lyrics. Goddammit.:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Here's My Lyric...

"Up In Canada Neil Young Supported Ronald Reagan"

"We all did what he could do"


"Now ole Neil's support doesn't bother me"


"Does your conscience bother you"


"Boo Hoo Hoo"