Many of us on DU are getting Dixie-Chicked

[newsguyatl]

right here in our own backyard...

a perfect example is the post where someone posted a great piece by wayne madsen... http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen09182003.html



to all the truthseekers on here: stay strong and don't succumb to this playground bullying that has taken over DU.


i will get bashed and smeared and tarred for bringing this up, and that's fine, because i don't get intimidated, ESPECIALLY by schoolyard tactics... but for those who might, please stay STRONG and keep fighting the good fight!!!

[Skittles]

1. ever wondered

if maybe it's just a DIFFERENCE OF OPINION?

[meegbear]

2. "i don't get intimidated"?

Are you being physically threatened?

[disgruntella]

3. cue journey!

"don't stop... belieeevin'"...

[RandomKoolzip]

4. Dude, relax.

There is always going to be give and take here. Whether you want to call it an exchange of ideas, bullying, intimidation, or hardball discourse, it will alwys be here. Learn to live with it, 'cuz it will not go away. Frankly, I'd rather get into a heated argument with a fellow liberal than with a freakin nazi freeper anyday. At least at the end of the day, our goals are the same. Realize that. We are all in the same family, and you know how siblings act towards each other.

And we all realize the REAL enemy is the BFEE.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. We are not "Dixie Chicking" you!!!

We are demanding that all the candidates get an equal chance to proove themselves!

I see that you are a Dean supporter. Are you by any chance afraid that Clark will cut into his lead and maybe that is why you are posting this thread???

Dean is NOT my first choice! It is Clark right now then John Kerry!

[Evil_Dewers]

6. Great piece??

It was full of very biased opinions and unnamed sources.

I'm a Deanite, but the shit being thrown at Clark from the left and the right is getting quite ridiculous.

[whirlygigspin]

10. on being Dixie Chicked

I prefer the term Garafaloded or Garafaloed.

ex: "I wrote a post that some took as offensive
and boy, did I get Garafaloded!"

[Brian Sweat]

17. I would love to be Garafaloed.

[Pastiche423]

7. Ayup

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I am staying strong and true to myself.

[vi5]

8. Hmmm...I find this notion interesting...

Since one of the things that almost kept me away from being a Dean supporter was the incessant bullying and thuggish tactics used by a nice chunk(not not ALL) of his supporters on these here pages.

Luckily I was able to separate the man from his minions, and find myself able to support him based on his own merits and positions and not because of anything anyone on ehre did or didn't say. But still I find the irony of indignance now that the tables are turned to be rather amusing.

[Eloriel]

19. Oh, c'mon, vi5

Maybe you're not here enough to be able to differentiate the qualitative difference. Most -- not even many, but MOST -- of the Clarkies are way over the top in the bullying and thuggery categories. They're very aggressive, not assertive, but pugnaciously aggressive. Bullies.

If you don't see an enormous difference between them and Dean supporters as a group, then you're either not looking and paying attention, all "conflicted" discussion is painful for you, or you don't spend enough time here to see it.

Someone very bright told me that as a group they remind him of that little rent-a-mob that showed up in Palm Beach, FL in Nov. 2000, and I absolutely agree. Perfect analogy.

I don't think DU has been the same since the Clark invasion. And yes, some old-time DUers are Clark supporters, and some of THEM are more than a little thug-ish too.

BTW, in the last 2 days I notice some new members who are Clark supporters, and this new wave is the "kinder, gentler" Clark supporter. Much more refined and "reasonable-sounding" debate skills. Almost soothing. You might surmise I don't trust them either.

And before anyone jumps: no I'm NOT afraid Clark will take the nomination from Dean, not unless there are dirty tricks down the line which I don't rule out. At this point, my fear is that Clark will tarnish Dean by association. Dean was very generous in his remarks about Clark the other day. I hope those remarks won't come back and bite him, but I'm afraid they will.

Eloriel

[vi5]

24. Sorry, but I've read enough posts by both to know....

Nowhere did I say all Dean supporters were thuggish and all Clark supporters are angels.

But the fact is that before I got behind Dean I asked/raised a lot of fair, legitimate questions and made some observations that got a reaction from more than just a few people who were downright scary and threatening in their tone. And I saw this directed at a lot of other people as well. And although as I said these people were not the bulk of Dean supporters, I also didn't see a whole lot of the more rational Dean supporters come to my defense.

So now there are Clark defenders who are employing some of the same tactics and Dean supporters are either surprised or upset by this?

I just think it's a matter of what comes around goes around. I think it's pathetic when employed by both sides.

But the bottom line is that considering that rabid and vehement reaction many Dean supporters had when anyone would post or reprint any article or piece that was anything less than 100% full of praise for Dean, for them to not understand when Clark supporters get upset when they do the same thing is not fair play IMHO.

I just think all this petty BS has to stop.

[Eloriel]

43. Well, are you at least aware that there are a small handufl

of DUers who have made it their business -- posisbly even PAID business, they have been so "professional" about it -- to invade every single Dean thread and post lies, distortions, mischaracterizations, etc., etc., etc.? And they would continuously post the same lies, distortions, etc., etc., even after they had been soundly refuted and proven wrong?

I think the nefarious behavior of these several Kerry supporters definitely colored a lot of Dean supporters' attitudes toward what may have been more sincere questions and remarks.

In any case, I definitely see a substantive difference. So, I don't see the "worst" of the Dean supporters being anywhere near as bad as the worst of the Clark supporters. Sorry you do.

Eloriel

[Generic Other]

36. Would you be horrified at the idea of the two being running mates?

Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean. Toss a coin?

The way I try and judge is first by their words and deeds, and then by their "Q" factors. Both seem strong liberals to me. Dean lacks the "four star" sparkle, but he seems solid on issues. Can he win the support of the attention deficit disorder generation? Will they turn out the vote for him? A general seems like a flashier lure, in many ways, but maybe that's selling the electorate short. It's certainly the way Bush sees himself winning. He's running on emotional appeals not any substance. And damn, it works.

I apologize if I sound like a "thug" or "bully." I was really just thinking out loud. I will try to use the fairness doctrine in the next few months and think out loud about all the other democratic candidates.

[GiovanniC]

39. Some Dean Supporters

Who will remain nameless, completely turned me off from Dean. I had basically the same experience as you... asking real, honest questions and getting attacked by people who seemed so rabid I could imagine them wiping the spittle from their monitor after they got done posting.

Some Dean supporters have been absolutely, without a fault, respectful. But I saw WAY too many Dean supporters (not just on DU, actually) that acted positively insane and angry and bitter by the way they marketed their candidate. I was happy to see enthusiasm about ANY Democratic candidate, but I believed that the general attitude and disposition of many of these Dean supporters would turn off a lot of mainstream people the way they turned me off.

I agree with many of Dean's positions, and I consider myself a "liberal leftist". But I support Wesley Clark in the primary, and I contribute to his campaign and I will tell everyone I know -- in a very respectful way -- that I think Wesley Clark is the best candidate. I hope he wins the nomination. If he doesn't, I'll vote for whoever gets it.

[HFishbine]

9. "playground bullying"

You mean like sending these kinds of PMs?

-------------
you punkass
From: newsguyatl
Date: Sep 19th 2003
you're pathetic
--------------

[bicentennial_baby]

13. Oh snap

Talk about Gotcha!

[QC]

14. ROFLMAO!!!

[quinnox]

15. LOL

Oh man.

[sangh0]

28. Heeheeheee!

That's so funny, I'm giggling like a coed with a crush


Heeheehee

[sangh0]

11. You are not being "Dixie-Chicked"

"seventhsoned" maybe, but not "Dixie Chicked"

[seventhson]

12. I resemble that remark

but glad to be acknowledged as a target by the hO

[oasis]

23. Please put that genie back into the bottle.

oops, too late. :-)

[seventhson]

16. Clark is a NeoCon. In charge of the Southern Hemisphere in Panama???

Scary. He is a real inside pentagon boy

[Brian Sweat]

18. Yes, we are questioning your patriotism because you are

posting useless drivel. Get over yourself.

[Eloriel]

20. Glad you saw it.

I was going to PM you and make sure you didn't miss it.

Don't let these Neanderthals drag you down, newsguy.

Eloriel

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

21. So DUers are burning your CDs?

And calling you fat and ugly?

I had no idea.

[Pepperbelly]

31. LOL

Good one!

:toast:

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Dixie-Chicked?

I dunno.

Can you sing?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seventhson]

26. So Called Progressives

One said this:


"We are not "Dixie Chicking" you!!!"
Posted by PROGRESSIVE1
We are demanding that all the candidates get an equal chance to proove themselves!

I see that you are a Dean supporter. Are you by any chance afraid that Clark will cut into his lead and maybe that is why you are posting this thread???

Dean is NOT my first choice! It is Clark right now then John Kerry!"


I'm tellin' you we have GOT to get Clark's reord out in the light of day,

This article is a solid one with good info.

Clark is clearly an inside pentagon spook who has had his fingers in all kinds of bloody messes.

I see why they had him as a conmsultant --- but the only credential he has as far as I can tell is arrogance and might.

He looks very poorly and the reason we aree asking that his rt4ecord be vetted is that we need to know everything about this guy because the yipping and yapping of the rightist "dems" here is unbearable.

Like with Ford in 1976, the right wing KNEW that Ford would lose after the disaster that was watergate and the loss of the Vietnam war. So the right wing picked Carter whom they could use and manipulate. He was selected by David Rockefeller himself as the corporate casndidate because FORD WOULD NOT WIN!!!

Today the same thing has happened: The BFEE replacement for the tanking Bush was either Lieberman or Kerry (my $$$ was on Kerry as ther main BFEE plan).

But Lieberman and Kerry are tanking SOOOO -- they try to outDean Dean.

They flood this board with proClark lies about him being the cool antiwar general and then they drop him into the race.

there is NO CRIME in looking at Clark with a microiscope. We have done it to all the others and the only ones who really look okay and winnable are Dean and maybe Edwards (possibly Kucinich).

So the BFEE trots out their DEMOCRAT as the spoiler.

And the wolves in sheep's clothing here at DU howl and bleet to encourage him and fool the rest of us.

Very shrewd strategy but Clark is WAAAYYY to dirty for us to let him get away with this.

He IS the right wing.


I'm with newsguy on this one.

Fight ON!!!


I came to Dean by a process of elimination. Gore is out and so I have to go with the best man who is closest to my positions and has the best chance of beating Bush and Kerry and protecting America from the right wing.

Clark is one of the people we need protecting FROM.

Dean/Edwards is -- right now--- my best proposed ticket.

Kucinich can be in the cabinet. Clark can be defense secretary for all I care. He's a good killer, I suppose. A Euroamerican Colin Powell maybe even (although I think I would vote for Powell before Clark)

Keep digging folks and HELP me on the Haitian refugee story.

I need INFO.

Maybe someone in Miami can call the Haitrian Refugee project and just ask idf Clark was in control of their camps in the `1980's under Reagan.

[kodi]

30. calling clark right wing is like calling martin luther king an uncle tom

you have no credibility in intelligent debate. none.

calling those of us who demand substantiated facts before making conclusions wolves in sheep's clothing is a sign of terminal paranoia or congenital stupidity.

what are you, 16 years old? a grown up is supposed to be smarter than that.

since you want a dean/edwards ticket, show the rest of us how clark's statments or positions on the economy, national health care, civil rights, and foreign policies are right wing and so different than dean's or edwards or kerry's or gepthart's. and dont weasel out like others have by insisting that clark is a liar and what he says is not what he would do. because each candidate could just as reasonably be accused of that.

as to your preference of powell before clark, it shows your ignorance of historical facts. powell helped cover up the mi lai massacre while investigating it in viet nam. so i can just as well call you someone who would support a guy who hides baby killers.

attack with a sword, expect to get hacked with one. it works both ways. yours is not the only position which could proclaim to have god on their side.

recognizing that is SUPPOSED to be what separates us from the right wing.

not recognizing it is what produces folks like the taliban.

[stanwyck]

32. If you think this is solid journalism

then you must be a big Faux News fan.

[stanwyck]

27. Wayne Madsen is below our standards

you need to do your research on his articles. We're intelligent people. We don't swallow whatever is given to us. Consider the source. Always. This is tabloid stuff. It's a waste of everyone's time. You're not being "Dixie-chicked". You're being asked to not supply us with drivel.

[MSchreader]

33. And from where did you all get your journalism degrees?

Idle question.

Martin

[stanwyck]

34. University of Missouri

bachelors of journalism.

[seventhson]

45. I have a BA in investigative journalism and political science too!!!

And I think Madsen is pretty solid. So is Conason. I wonder about Cohen though in the counterpunch piece I linked earlier.

[Pepperbelly]

35. if you read the article and ...

possess even a modicum of critical thinking skills, perhaps you will notice that the author doesn't even pretend to provide evidence for his wild accusations and further, on the things that are less wild, he relies totally on one unnamed source.

Do you really think that a journalism degree is necessary to recognize shoddy work when one sees it? I am not a bricklayer but I can damned well tell when something isn't plumb and this boy Madsen's article is far from plumb.

[watercolors]

29. Get a life!

no one is dixie chicken you!!!

[ComerPerro]

37. Well, not a day goes by here

That I don't see you get bashed. At least lately.

Its a shame, too

[loudsue]

38. Newsguy, Eloriel, Seventhson.....so true. Whassup w/ that?

I'm with you...it is SO apparent what has transpired. Almost like clarkwork, er, uh, clockwork. It started as a rabid trickle, then quickly became a hurricaine. It came with clark.

I don't mind having him in the race, because it's one more voice to slam bush. But I really am fearful if he should be chosen as the one the corporations program into the voting machines to be the victor of the primaries &/or general election. Just a "kinder, gentler, (and helluvalot better looking and more articulate, charismatic) shrub".

I've been here since just a couple of months after the DU site went up. These things that are being said by the bullies are NOT the words of progressives...liberals. These are the people that are throwing around the term "leftists" and "socialists", and mocking posters by these terms. These are the things that neo-cons call progressives. And a majority of the bullies are strong Clark supporters.

In fact, Seventhson, like you, that's how I knew who clark was politically, even if I hadn't studied him in depth over a year ago. You can see what kind of people are FOR him...and the tactics.

And Eloriel, you're right, too...the real smooooothe ones are even a little spooky....I've noticed that, also.

It's hard to hang-tough, Newsguy. I get enough of the freep logic all over the airwaves and news stands. DU used to be a safe-haven for progressives...we were "underground", and could actually debate rationally (though sometimes hotly) among ourselves without the army of bullies. There were always a few bullies, who usually didn't last long. That DU is as long gone as the former America we knew.

I'll hang as long as I can. I still come in and check the BBV threads and find out the new links and print out the new reserch. But I'm visiting other threads less and less now...too many bullies...too little 'protection' from them, for serious progressives to carry on our activism.

I'm glad to see some real progressives are still here, and I thank you for this 'reminder' thread. I just regret our voices are being drowned out by these hyped-up, violent vigilanties.

:shrug: 'World peace' freaks being FOR a military general??? :wtf:
I ain't buyin' it.

:kick:

[zeemike]

40. I agree with you, Eloriel…

But I came here recently as a Dean supporter, (in fact Dean was the one that activated me to start posting here) and at first I did not notice any bullies. But a few days before the Clark entry it started big time and I was offended by them telling me that a general is the only one that could beat flight suit bush.
I have more faith in people than that. They are not that shallow and petty, and I think that it shows a social and maybe racial bias that is a little disturbing to me.

[CWebster]

41. Regular shock troops

Keep us posted newsguy and when the threads sink and the void between is filled with gushing and girlish giggling from jack-booted thugs, kick 'em up again. ;-)

[jonnyblitz]

42. ad my name to your list.

I still am considering Clark IN SPITE of his supporters.

[dsc]

44. You shouldn't be bullied

but this article is woeful. Counterpunch lies about Democrats. They lied about Gore (the repeated every right wing lie), about Dean (Nic posted their article a couple of times in P and C, they lied about Kerry, and now about Clark. Gee I am shocked (sarcasm)