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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:03 AM
Original message
Unitarian Universalism
I just noticed they had a flaming chalice avatar in the list of avatars, and it made me wonder how many UUs there are here... I was raised UU and never strayed...I just love it. So, speak up UUs, make yourselves known.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've been there a couple of times
And I've been impressed that I come out of a church service that causes me to think and encourages me to grow and learn rather than just preach at me.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm a UU
and have been for over two years.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. UU spoken here
Though I gotta say the current Pres of the UUA is making me nervous.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah...
I don't much like what I'm hearing either...
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So would UU be a good place for a spiritual Atheist?
that's what I consider myself, a spirutal atheist, or maybe pantheist. But there aren't too many pantheist organizations around.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. absolutely.
there are many of us.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Givem a try
Keep in mind though each UU church has its own flavor. The UU church I started out at was ministered by the President of the American Humanist Association. If thats not a good sign for an atheist I don't know what is. Each church has its own feel. Thats what you get when you have no central dogma other than tolerance.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
48. Why making you nervous?
I ask because I attend a UU church often, and haven't been there in a couple months. (Spending my Sunday mornings ensconsed with a Washington Post, hot tea, and my new BF.) Hence, I've missed a lot of the denominational news.

So, whassup wit' him?

:hi:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Here's another one...
Born and raised Presbyterian, became a UU 6 years ago.

I love those people.

One problem we have in our church is how to get more people to come and experience UUism. UUs are loath to "evangelize", but how can we market what we are without making our congregation members shiver?

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Your avatar...
was what I noticed first...and what spurred this thread. Then, I had to copy off of you. :9
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. Ahhhh...I see now
From the dating thread.

Well, glad to see you found it!

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. My wife...
was raised half UU, half Presbyterian...they seem like UUs to me, only with all that Christian gobletygook.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. new marketing plan
major plan afoot to advertise UU.
the bumper sticker reads:

The Uncommon Denomination

nationwide billboards are planned after the pilot program in kansas city and somewhere else (i forget)... maybe boston.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. Hey, I like that!
I think that the congregation members could go with a low key approach like that.

Thanks!

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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. 25 year member
raised episcopalian.
was a UU and didn't know it.
have been pondering posting the seven principles here at DU.
what do you think?
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. I would like to see them, for what it's worth...
Edited on Thu Jul-10-03 09:46 AM by catpower2000
I have been interested in the UU church for some time, but have never attended a service. I'm an agnostic, turned off by organized religion from having been raised Catholic. I like the idea of going to a church to talk about ethics (rather than MORALS) and I like the community aspect of it. Are they constantly asking you for money?

Cat

edit: typo
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Any suggestion that UUism is organised
is just a dirty rumor. ;-)

UUism suffers from all the usual liberal org problems. Fortunately these problems are compensated by UUism having all the benefits of liberal orgs.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
52. Darn--you're good, Az
nm
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. annual canvass
they ask for cash once a year.
some people give $5.
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Totally reasonable...
so you give what you can afford and people don't give you dirty looks for it? Hmm, sounds very...democratic. :)

Cat
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
64. I left the local UU church when they started giving dirty looks.
They decided to publish a list of everyone who gave more than the median, and everyone who gave, but not above the median. Interestingly enough, the median was $700. Then the board and minister started attacking, ad hominem, the people who objected to the policy. I spoke out against it at a board meeting. After the minister ridiculed my (and other's) arguments that listing stratifying church members by donations seemed to run against a few of the core principles, the congregation's president said out loud, "what are these so-called principles that I keep hearing about?". The minister looked like he sat on a whoopie cushion, the past president looked like he was going to vomit, and the finance head whispered to him something about "those blue cards we used to pass out".

I'm still a UU, but that's the last time I went there. It's probably only in Texas that the UU's form country club churches, but that's where I'm stuck.
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barbaraann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
56. The joke goes
you give to the UU church 4%...of what you gave to your previous church.

Another joke: UU's pray "To Whom It May Concern"

Unitarian Universalism is great; I just live too far away from the ones we have here to be a regular.

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Take the quiz at www.beliefnet.org
Very insightful.

Never been asked, it is strictly voluntary in my organization.

Wonderful atmosphere and before/after is quite fun and interesting. My org has Wiccans, Christians, Jews, Hindus, even atheists (and these are the ones I know about).

A great place for those who are spiritually inclined and open-minded.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Should we tell the newbies about the real service
Its called coffee hour. While the "regular" services at a UU Church are very informative it is the Coffee hour that many show up for. A more productive exchange of ideas in the real world you will be hard pressed to find. Discussions on nearly any topic can crop up and do.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Ahhh...coffee,
the elixir of life... :)
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SPICYHOT Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
58. I must agree with you
I born catholic, but what I've seen is all about money, not morals, not believes but money.
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XNASA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Hey pengpong.
I take it from one of your earlier posts, I forget which one, that you're from the Chicago area. If so, me too.

I've been thinking about attending some UU functions locally. There's a UU church in Park Forest. That wouldn't happen to be where you attend, is it?
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Nope, I'm from Oklahoma...
I just have an afinity for Chicago...particularly the music scene, due in part to my strong love for Stereolab (thus, my name). I recommend you try out the UU church though...I suspect you will like. :)
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
16. the UU seven principles
We, the member congregations of the Unitarian Universalist Association, covenant to affirm and promote

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Nice...
:)
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. May I ask a few questions?
Do they talk about God in the service?

Do they have some sort of communion ritual?

How are the services set up? Is there a minister, one person who leads, or is it more like a Quaker meeting, where everyone talks?

If there are ministers, how do they choose them? Are they all Christians?

Do they have any problem with people practicing other religions at the same time--say, buddhism?

Are the people there cool?

Cat
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. all things being equal...
god is the subject of some sermons, but, unless it concerns a specific reference to the god of abraham, the definition of god is usually left to the listener.
no communion ritual, other than the occasional potluck.
the ministers all have doctorates and must graduate from either harvard, meade lombard, or one other school (i forget).
the congregations and their boards host prospective ministers for a weekend and vote.
buddhists, wiccans, xtians... you name it.
the best part about the sermons is that you feel like you should take notes. (you feel like there should be a test! haha!)usually great philosophical subjects!
the music is always superb, too!
truly cool people! you will find your niche quickly.
each congregation has some sort of social action committee, too.
and they are always looking for new, energetic members.
enjoy!
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Excellent, thanks very much!
I think I'll check it out this weekend. :)

Cat
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. One point on communion
We have a Flower Communion every Easter.

People bring flowers from their gardens, yards, etc., and at some point during the service we all go up and pick a different flower.

It's a symbol of spring thing for us.

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. We...
do a flower communion too. :)
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. That's really beautiful...
I love flowers. :) What a nice way to share your caring for one another.

Cat
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Answers
The UU church is not godcentric. God may come up depending on the personality of the individuals churches but it is not a dogmatic part of the structure. There are some old UU jokes (my former roomie is the author of the book The Church Where People Laugh, a collection of UU jokes). Here are a few.
----------------------
A UU service was going on. In the middle of it a guy stood up and shouted Praise The Lord. The entire congregation turned and stared at the man who then proceeded to say he was joyous cuz he Got Religion. Someone in the congregation replied "Well you didn't get it here".

Last time I heard Jesus' name at the UU church was when the Janitor fell down the stairs.
----------------------

There is no communion in a UU church. Some churches may partake in various cerimonies such as the lighting of the chalice (the Chalice is the UU symbol). But there are no wafers, wine, etc. Well there often is wine at UU retreats as well as hot tubs.

Churches are assigned a minister by the UUA if the church has signed on with them. The congregation is able to decide whether to keep the minister or request a new one. Some churchs have actually sought out their own minster and petitioned the UUA to ordain them.

UU churchs are generally filled with hyphens. UU-Pagan, UU-Buddhist, UU-Atheist, UU-Christian, UU-Discordian. So yes they allow nearly any other belief within their doors. The stained glass window of the first UU Church I went to had repesentation of 5 different religions represented in it.

Keep in mind however that the pressing of one belief as the only true way will be frowned on by the congregation. A UU church is a gathering of similar minded people. Not identical minded people.

Cool people? Well that depends on your definition of cool. I found myself gushing about the coolness factor when I first realised that one of the major members of the church (later to become a good friend of mine) was running around the sanctuary wearing a leather miniskirt. It wasn't so much the miniskirt as it was the freedom to express herself as she saw fit. You will find an honest cross setion of humanity represented there. Unfiltered by dogmatic expectations of how they are supposed to be. One of the Churchs I attended had an auction every year and one of the items for bid was a motorcycle ride to Hell and back. The ministers husband was the motorcycle owner and yes we did go to Hell Michigan. This event became an ever increasingly demanded one and more motorcycle owners volunteered for it eventually it included an old Model T in the trip as well. So I would have to say in balance that yes the people are cool.
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catpower2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Sounds very cool to me!!
Being agnostic, imposing my beliefs on others won't be a problem, since I don't have any. :)

I want to bid on the motorcycle ride to Hell! Sounds like a blast!


Thanks for the answers, I think I'm going to go this weekend and check it out--shockingly, we actually have a UU church in Fredericksburg, VA! :wtf:

Cat
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. almost
I'm actually working on a project with my local UU's. I've been to their services a few times, and been very impressed. It's spirituality with a social consience. There are so many beliefs among UU's - it's a very welcoming, warm place to be.

I have a UU friend who identifies as a Christian, and one who very determinedly does not. I understand the new president is making some people very nervous.
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clyrc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
21. I've been attending UU churches for 4 years now
but I never got around to joining. When I get overseas and settled, I'm definitely joining my kids and myself up with the church of the larger fellowship. What a pleasure it was to find the UU church. The philosophy fits me perfectly.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. I gave this speech to the UU Church on Nantucket
about two weeks ago. Maybe 100 people. Big ovation when I was done. Beautiful church with members willing to hear the truth.

----

Good morning. Before I begin my remarks, I have some important introductions to make. These are people you need to know.

His name was Antanacio Haromarin, and he was from Baldwin Park, California. Haromarin was an American soldier manning a checkpoint in Iraq. His unit came under fire from rocket-propelled grenades and small arms. Haromarin was killed in this exchange on June 3. He was 27 years old.

His name was Branden Oberleitner, and he was from Worthington, Ohio. Oberleitner was an American soldier returning from a patrol in Iraq when he was fired upon by a rifle-propelled grenade. Oberleitner died of his wounds on June 5. He was 20 years old.

His name was Doyle Bollinger, Jr., and he was from Poteau, Oklahoma. Bollinger was an American soldier on a work detail in Iraq when a piece of unexploded ordnance detonated and killed him on June 6. Bollinger was 21 years old.

His name was Jesse Halling, and he was from Indianapolis, Indiana. Halling was an American soldier at a military police station in Iraq which came under fire from rifle-propelled grenades and small arms fire. Halling was fatally shot in this exchange on June 7. He was 19 years old.

His name was Michael Dooley, and he was from Pulaski, Virginia. Dooley was an American soldier who was manning a traffic control point in Iraq when he was ambushed by two individuals who drove up requesting medical assistance. They shot him to death on June 8. He was 23 years old.

His name was Gavin Neighbor, and he was from Somerset, Ohio. Neighbor was an American soldier who was resting in a bus after guard duty in Iraq when an attacker fired a rocket-propelled grenade at him from a nearby house. Neighbor died of his wounds on June 10. He was 20 years old.

His name was Shawn Pahnke, and he was from Shelbyville, Indiana. Pahnke was an American soldier on patrol in Iraq when he was fatally shot on June 16. He was 25 years old.

His name was Robert Frantz, and he was from San Antonio, Texas. Frantz was an American soldier on guard duty in Iraq when someone threw a hand grenade over a wall at him. Frantz died of his injuries on June 17. He was 19 years old.

His name was William Latham, and he was from Kingman, Arizona. Latham was an American soldier who participated in a raid at a suspected arms market in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, on May 19. He was hit with shrapnel. Latham was evacuated back to the United States where he died of his wounds in Walter Reed Army Medical Center on June 18. He was 29 years old.

His name was Michael Deuel, and he was from Nemo, South Dakota. Deuel was an American soldier ordered to guard a propane distribution center in Iraq. He was shot on June 18 while performing this guard duty and died of his wounds. He was 21 years old.

His name was Paul Nakamura, and he was from Santa Fe Springs, California. Nakamura was an American soldier, part of an ambulance crew in Iraq transporting an injured soldier for medical attention on June 19 when the ambulance was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. Nakamura was killed in this attack. He was 21 years old.

His name was Orenthial Smith, and he was from Allendale, South Carolina. Smith was an American soldier whose convoy was ambushed by small arms fire in Iraq. He died of his wounds on June 22. He was 21 years old.

These are the American combat casualties in Iraq from June 1 to June 22. Added to this list for that period are Michael Tosto (age 24), Andrew Pokorny (age 30), Joseph Suell (age 24), John Klinesmith, Jr. (age 25), Ryan Cox (age 19), Travis Burkhardt (age 26), Cedric Lennon (age 32) and Jonathan Lambert (age 28), who were killed in Iraq by non-combat related mishaps like car wrecks and accidental weapons discharges.

In the last few days, at least five more American soldiers have died in Iraq, along with six British soldiers. Two American soldiers have gone missing, possibly abducted, possibly dead. This averages out to more than one US soldier killed a day. If this rate keeps up, we can expect 228 more dead American troops by Christmas.

Why?

Donald Rumsfeld was asked this question on a March 24 edition of the CBS news program 'Face the Nation.' He said, "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established."

That is a profoundly specified statement. Not only did Rumsfeld claim that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons, not only were those weapons in place to be used on the battlefield, not only were those poisons weaponized for maximum lethal effect. Rumsfeld stated bluntly that he knew of one case where permission to use these weapons against American troops had already been given.

This was nothing new. For seven months to that point, Rumsfeld had been in good company making claims of this nature. Every day since September of 2002, we heard from Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Fleischer, Rice, Powell, and several times from George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, that Iraq's weapons program represented an immediate and severe danger to the American people. The shadow of September 11 loomed long and dark over these statements, and the approval ratings for combat indicated that Americans were willing to believe these Bush administration claims rather than accept even the most remote possibility that Iraqi weapons could be used on the home front.

It has become agonizingly clear that the Bush administration deliberately trumped up dire stories of Iraq's weapons capabilities in order to galvanize the American people behind war. They lied every day for months. Worse, the Bush administration deliberately used the horror of September 11 to justify war against a nation that posed no threat to American security.

On June 15, former NATO Supreme Commander General Wesley Clark appeared on 'Meet the Press' with Tim Russert. A wretchedly revealing exchange came from the interview:

GEN. CLARK: I think there was a certain amount of hype in the intelligence, and I think the information that's come out thus far does indicate that there was a sort of selective reading of the intelligence in the sense of sort of building a case.

MR. RUSSERT: Hyped by whom? The CIA, or the president or vice president? Secretary of Defense, who?

GEN. CLARK: I think it was an effort to convince the American people to do something, and I think there was an immediate determination right after 9/11 that Saddam Hussein was one of the keys to winning the war on terror. Whether it was the need just to strike out or whether he was a linchpin in this, there was a concerted effort during the fall of 2001 starting immediately after 9/11 to pin 9/11 and the terrorism problem on Saddam Hussein.

MR. RUSSERT: By who? Who did that?

GEN. CLARK: Well, it came from the White House, it came from people around the White House. It came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, "You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein." I said, "But-I'm willing to say it but what's your evidence?" And I never got any evidence.

Mr. Russert, predictably, did not follow up on this astounding claim during the interview. The import of these statements, however, is clear. General Clark was asked by the White House, and by those working for and with the White House, to connect Saddam Hussein and Iraq to the attacks of September 11. He was asked to do so on that terrible day, while people were still dying and while the buildings were still burning.

The tactic was effective. A poll by CBS and the New York Times taken just before the war began showed that 45% of the American people believed Saddam Hussein was "personally involved" in the attacks of September 11. A previous poll taken by Princeton Survey Research Associates showed that 50% of the American people believed that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqis.

In a country with a news media that can provide data in an unrelenting stream 24 hours a day, millions of Americans believed in a connection that was completely and totally wrong. How can such a gap in comprehension be explained? Simply put, the Bush administration put forth a staggering array of lies and exaggerations, and the American media chose to repeat them ad nauseam instead of verifying the veracity of the claims. These poll numbers must be factored into those taken during and after the war which appeared to show American support for the attack.

It also begs the question: If the rationales for attacking Iraq were so strong, as Bush and his administration claim, why was it necessary to manufacture evidence to support the war?

It has been almost three months since Baghdad fell to American forces. The United States military has invested virtually every corner of Iraq in that time. No evidence of chemical or biological weapons has been found. No evidence that these weapons had been dispersed for combat usage has been found. Nothing weaponized has been found. No evidence that command and control orders were given has been found. No connection between Iraq, Hussein and the 9/11 terrorists has been even minutely established.

The best they have come up with? Two ‘Mobile Weapons Labs’ labeled by Colin Powell as “Winnebagoes of Death,” which were in fact platforms for the filling and launching of weather balloons, which were in fact sold to the Iraqis by the British. That, and they found a ‘gas centrifuge’ buried under a rose bush that purportedly indicates an Iraqi nuclear program. Never mind that the thing was buried there twelve years ago. Never mind that centrifuges become metal paperweights if they get dust in them, much less dirt and condensation and rust from being buried under a shrub.

That’s it. That’s everything.

After roughly 280 days worth of fearful descriptions of the formidable Iraqi arsenal, coming on the heels of seven years of UNSCOM weapons inspections, four years of surveillance, months of UNMOVIC weapons inspections, the investiture of an entire nation by American and British forces, after which said forces searched "everywhere" per the words of the Marine commander over there and "found nothing," after interrogating dozens of the scientists and officers who have nothing to hide anymore because Hussein is gone, after finding out that the dreaded 'mobile labs' were weather balloon platforms sold to Iraq by the British, George W. Bush and his people suddenly have a few things to answer for.

You may recall this instance where a bombastic claim was made by Bush. During his constitutionally-mandated State of the Union address on January 28, 2003, Mr. Bush said, "Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." Nearly five months later, those 500 tons are nowhere to be found. A few seconds with a calculator can help us understand exactly what this means.

500 tons of gas equals one million pounds. After UNSCOM, after UNMOVIC, after the war, after the US Army inspectors, after all the satellite surveillance, it is difficult in the extreme to imagine how one million pounds of anything could refuse to be located. Bear in mind, also, that this one million pounds is but a small part of the Iraqi weapons arsenal described by Bush and his administration.

Balloon labs and decrepit remnant technology from a nuclear program long since destroyed is not good enough. Not by a long chalk.

Along with the Americans who died at the altar of these terrible lies were thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilians. The Associated Press attempted to do an accounting of the civilian dead after the war, and came up with 3,240 killed. This number, however, only represents casualties that took place between March 20 and April 20, and depends upon records from hospitals that were badly overwhelmed by the carnage. A variety of groups from around the world that are also evaluating the data put the casualty numbers closer to 7,000 killed, and some estimate that the number of dead is actually in the neighborhood of 10,000.

His name was Brandon Sloan, and he was from Cleveland, Ohio. Sloan was an American soldier who was killed March 23 after his convoy came under attack in Iraq. He was 19 years old. He was not the first to die, and he was not the last.

When a man or woman puts on the uniform of the United States military and swears the oath, they are taking a leap of faith that their lives will not be used and disposed of by those who would deceive them into combat. There can be no worse crime perpetrated against them, against us, against this nation, than if a leader sends them off to die in the service of a lie.

George W. Bush and his administration owe an explanation to the family of Brandon Sloan, and to the families of all the other troops who have fallen and will fall in this war. They owe an explanation to the American people and to the world for the carnage they caused with their lies and exaggerations. There must be a reckoning.

When you stare into the obsidian darkness of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington DC, it stares back at you. The stone of the monument is jet black, but polished so that you must face your own reflected eyes should you dare to read the names inscribed there. You are not alone in that place. You stand shoulder to shoulder with the dead, and when those names shine out around and above and below the person you see in that stone, you become their graveyard. Your responsibility to those names, simply, is to remember. Such an awful lesson was learned in the forging of that place, not in abstractions of military theory, but in blood and tissue and life.

Consider the man himself, George W. Bush. He successfully parlayed 9/11, the worst intelligence failure in the history of the world, into a war that cost, and continues to cost, thousands of lives. The terrorism fears surrounding al Qaeda connections to Iraq and Hussein's vast stockpiles of deadly weapons played directly upon the memory of collapsing Towers and massive death that is now the collective heritage of every American. Bush used that terrible image against his own people by lying repeatedly about the threat posed by Iraq, to bring about a war that served little purpose to anyone but those who stand to profit from it.

He, and the rest of us, appear poised to be forced to relearn the terrible lessons of Vietnam.

The war itself obscured, yet again, the disastrous missteps and policy decisions which opened America to the 9/11 attacks in the first place, and furthermore has pushed to the back burner the fact that the administration has adamantly refused to release a detailed report on what happened on that terrible day. To date he has gotten away with these lies and rank omissions. The ability to pull off a stunt like that without being called to account for it might make a man believe himself capable of any lie, any fabrication, any act the mind can conceive of.

The Bush administration has opened two wars that are now far from concluded, and appears to have begun preparing for third against Iran. They have done so while actively suppressing the intelligence report on the 9/11 attacks, and while manufacturing evidence to justify their actions in Iraq. The aftereffects of these actions - a dynamic increase in terrorist attacks and recruitment, chaos in Iraq, rising chaos in Afghanistan, skyrocketing American casualties, an America that is more wide open than ever to assault - will be felt for many years to come.

When you stare into the obsidian darkness of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, it stares back at you. It demands that you shout the names of the lost into the wind, where they will be carried on a slipstream of memory into the farthest reaches of time. The darkness demands that you do not forget, that you do not let leaders lie their way into butchery and failure. To this point, we as a nation have failed to fulfill that responsibility. This must change.

But we are bombarded each day with the seeming reality that people don’t care. People are willing to accept lies from this administration which result in massive death. People are willing to be lulled by brave words about protecting America, and do not care or even wish to care that the protection they hear about is actually the sword of Damocles, hanging by one hair above their bared necks.

I think people do care. I think people do not like being lied to, do not like American soldiers dying by the lot.

I think people do care. I just think people don’t know. They rely on the vapid wasteland of television news to be informed, they listen to conservative talk radio which tells them weapons have already been found in Iraq.

You have to tell them. You. Every day, as clearly as you can, you have to take up the banner of fact and carry it with you. Even a small rock makes ripples when it hits the water. Enough rocks in the water makes a big, big wave.

Is it a daunting task to consider? Of course. I find myself every day seeking inspiration, seeking hope, seeking a reason to keep shouting into the maelstrom. I have two memories that sustain me. One is of climbing through a huge cave in Arizona. There was a rock that had been worn down smoothly into a bowl in there, and I asked the guide what did that. She said it was caused by a drop of water that had fallen from the ceiling once a day for millennia. I think about that, about time, about the strength of rock against the weakness of water. I think about which prevailed.

I also remember standing with my grandmother on a beach in Florida to watch the shuttle take off. When they lit the candle, the ground beneath my small feet trembled so much I felt the vibration in my chest. As the ship paved a road of fire through the sky, I remember standing there with my mouth open thinking, “People did that. People can do anything.”

In a lot of ways, the space race itself is something that always brings to me a sense of awe and inspiration, because it is greatness and nobility forged from terrible circumstances. It began, in truth, as a byproduct of both Nazi rocket ingenuity and as yet another field of battle in the Cold War. When the governments of the United States and the Soviet Union first set their eyes to the stars, they did not have dreams of exploration in their hearts. Both wished to beat the other to that high ground for purely strategic reasons, and both used the propulsion wisdom developed by expatriated Third Reich scientists to do it.

When the Soviets launched the satellite, Sputnik, into orbit above Earth in 1957, the race began in earnest. The ante was raised in 1961 when Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin became the first human being to pierce the veil of our atmosphere and enter the oceanic emptiness of the universe. Less than a month later, American astronaut Alan Shepard followed the trail of Gegarin, strapped into the nosecone of a missile that a lot of NASA officials sincerely believed might blow up on the launch pad.

A year later, John Glenn orbited the Earth. In 1965, Soviet cosmonaut Alexi Leonov and American astronaut Ed White took the first 'walks' in space. By 1968, America had finally outstripped the Soviet racketeers, who had been repeatedly embarrassing them, when astronauts Frank Borman, Jim Lovell and Bill Anders orbited the moon. In July of 1969, the entire planet was stilled in wondrous awe as Neil Armstrong became the first human being to set foot on another celestial body.

Somewhere along the way, it became about much more than a race for Cold War supremacy in the skies. When President John F. Kennedy gathered the cause of space exploration to himself, applying his unique gifts for rhetoric and inspirational speech, the contest for space became about far more than beating the Soviets. "But why, some say, the moon?" asked Kennedy in 1962. "Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest mountain?"

Perhaps it was the headiness of the very idea, torn from the pages of pulp science fiction, that made our slow reach into the universe about so much more than mean gamesmanship between nations. A moment's consideration of the possibilities - some of which have already been realized with our unmanned trips to Mars and the outer planets, and our placement of the Hubble Telescope in the skies above Earth - boggles the mind.

Knowing the essence of humanity, however, it is a mission that always seemed unavoidable. As Gemini and Apollo astronaut Michael Collins said, "It's human nature to stretch, to go, to see, to understand. Exploration is not a choice, really; it's an imperative."

This, perhaps, is the rub. In this boiling cauldron of fallible human frailty and ignorance, we cast our eyes to the heavens and wondered what was there. We decided to do the impossible, to break free of the dead weight of gravity, to land our ships and our easily damaged bodies on a rock above that was utterly inhospitable to life, and we did it. We wanted to see what was on Mars, our closest planetary brother, and so our physicists executed the most extraordinary galactic corner-pocket pool shot in history by placing a probe dead-center-perfect on the surface of that red sphere.

We wanted to see what was at the farthest reaches, and so we put the Hubble Telescope into space and found that we could take pictures not only of the farthest reaches of measurable distance, but of time itself. Not so long ago, we took a picture with the Hubble called the ‘Deep Field.’ It was a snapshot of a moment in time not so far removed from that second when God snapped His fingers and said, "Let there be light."

It was good.

The challenge of space has always been a dangerous undertaking. On January 27, 1967, American astronauts Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chafee burned to death during a launch rehearsal, when a spark ignited the pure oxygen environment of their capsule. On April 11, 1970, Apollo 13 was launched. Days into their mission to the moon, an explosion crippled the ship, and only a series of small miracles coupled with the incredible professionalism of the astronauts on board and the NASA technicians back home brought the ship safely back to Earth.

In 1981 the first Space Shuttle was launched, and five years later the world watched on January 28 when the shuttle Challenger exploded seconds into its flight. Seven astronauts, including teacher Christa McAuliffe, died.

We returned, in February, to the shroud. Seven astronauts - Rick Husband, Kalpana Chawla, William McCool, David Brown, Laurel Clark, Michael Anderson and Ilan Ramon - died when the shuttle Colombia came apart while attempting to return home. The cause of the accident is unknown at this time. We are left only with the image of a new star in the sky, streaking towards Earth in a blaze of woe.

Proverbs 29:18 reads, "Where there is no vision, the people perish." It seems so often today that the world has lost that vision, and roils itself in conflict and hatred and fear. The seven astronauts who perished aboard Columbia, and those who lived and died before them, remind us of the greatness that dwells uniquely in this shabby human vessel. Such vision always comes to cost us all in blood, but it is blood shed for a cause beyond territory or resources or narrow and isolated ideologies. When men and women die in the pursuit of what is greatest about humanity, it is both a tragedy and a glorious statement of what is best in all of us. We mourn them in the deepest well of our souls, and stand in wonder that such magnificence and bravery could have ever been at all.

There is a lesson in this, I think, for all of us to ponder today. The space race began as an extension of a military death struggle. It continues in the same vein today to no small degree. Somewhere in between, however, it also became a statement about what we can become, and what we can accomplish, when we set our minds to it.

Set your mind to the task at hand. Be strong, be true, go forth with love in your hearts. Never let them see you sweat. If you do these things, and if you do them faithfully, you will save the world.

I promise.

Thank you.

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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Very nice...
Thanks for sharing that.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
27. the Social Concerns Committee
is very cool. Every UU church has one. It's just as it sounds. I'm working with my UU's SSC right now. We're cosponsoring a forum on the Patriot Act in a couple of weeks. Opposing views - we have a great speaker from the NH ACLU and a guy from the US Attorney's office. It should be a thought provoking evening in northern NH. :hi:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. This UU wants a report!
It would be great if we could see a transcript, maybe?

Wish I could be there, it sounds very thought-provoking.
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. okay, report
will be forthcoming, blondeatlast! A transcript may be too much to ask for, but I'll be able to report in at least. NHPR may broadcast it - but I'm not sure about that yet. The moderator for the forum is from NHPR.

The forum is happening on July 29, in Tamworth,NH if anyone is interested in more detail, pm me. I don't know how close other DU'ers are to the White Mountains of NH.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Depends on what you mean by "close"...
I'm supposed to be heading up to Lake George, NY the end of this month, and to St. Albans, VT. the end of August.

I used to drive to Boston and Philadephia once or twice a week, and DC a couple of times a month.

So, what's another 6 hour drive from NJ?

(Probably can't make it, though, but will see)

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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. c'mon by TreasonousBastard
I'd be thrilled to see you. :hi:

I'll be the tall woman with very red hair.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. Close...
I was raised Lutheran, but left them long ago. During the spiritual journey I headed toward the mystical, or at least less doctrinaire, religions and it came down to a choice between UU and the Quakers, or possibly Buddhism, and I chose the Quakers for my own reasons. Deep sprituality without dogma works for me, and an unprogrammed Quaker meeting is as undogmatic as it gets. It's a group meditation, not a church service.

I should drop in on some local UU's more often, though. Or any other group that agrees that the afterlife will pretty much take care of itself and the real job is to properly deal with the present life.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. I feel at home with the Quakers as well--
in fact the last time I took the Beliefnet survey I turned out to be 100% Quaker.

Your afterlife/present life comment is brilliant, my feelings EXACTLY.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. 100% Quaker?
Even Quakers don't make it to 100% Quaker on that test. Of course, a lot depends on what kind of Quaker.

IIRC, the last time I took it, the top ten included unprogrammed Quaker, UU, and Reformed Jew.

Go figure...

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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
41. I used to attend the UU Church in Harrisburg....
I really enjoyed it. I don't consider myself to be religious, but I'm really glad I spent time at that church. After the first few times I went there, I was shocked. I couldn't believe that there were churches that were not preachy, but rather informative. They even taught sex-ed there. I thought of the sermons more as like a college level course on theology.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. UU makes me crazy
I don't know why.

I tried Unitarian Universalism a long time ago, when I was young student at a big university, but I never fit. I still wouldn't. I am much more comfortable celebrating whatever tarnished "spirtuality" I have with the Quakers and "left-wing" Catholics.

These days I'm mostly Catholic, but I don't think I would be if I lived in a diocese that didn't have a strong tradition of pacifism and social activism.

(And, heh, you should see some of the contortions I go through when giving the Church money! )

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
44. Quite possibly the world's only lapsed UU here
pretty much the end of the religious road...

An important point to remember is that Unitarians and Universalists were separate denominations until 1961. Seminal 19th-century UU figure Thomas Starr King quipped that "the one (Universalists) believes that God is too good to damn them, and the other (Unitarians) believe they are too good to be damned by God." Some places still maintain two congregations; even if one is named "First Unitarian Church of Springfield", the phrase "A Unitarian Universalist Congregation" will appear below the name.

The congregation in New Haven where I discovered UU about ten years ago is historically Universalist. The only one on O'ahu (in all Hawai'i, for that matter) is basically Unitarian in nature, has a very haole congregation with many Mainland expats (its population increases noticeably in winter!), and is a 45-minute bus ride from home to boot. Hence, the world's first lapsed UU. (Does that mean I found my faith? :-) )

The three UU seminaries are Andover Newton in MA (affiliated with Harvard), Meadville-Lombard in Chicago, and Starr King in Berkeley, a few blocks from the north (quiet) side of UC. Most ministers are Christian, but by no means all. A retired one here has been known to host a "Feast of Mithras" at the holidays!

UU humor: What do you get when you cross a UU with a Jehovah's Witness?

Someone who knocks on your door over and over again for no reason. :-)

I'm hearing all these ominous words about the new president on Beacon St.; what gives? Don't tell me the Repukes are taking US over! (I asked you not to tell me that...)
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. The new UUA pres
Apparently he is a lapsed atheist (hey, its my point of view ;-) ). He has been making suggestions that more mention of god should be pushed into the congregations. Including changing the wording of various positions to include god.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. My father,...
a UU minister in Texas, got his degree at Meadville-Lombard.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. You're not alone in being lapsed.
My sister and I were raised half-assed UU. We went to church two months straight and then took a break for five years. She ended up a fundamentalist, I'm sort of a buddhist. (My mother and I look at her, and wonder where we went wrong with her.) I tend to like most UUs, though I recently found myself walking around a stone labyrinth with a gaggle of them while some lady rubbed a finger around the rim of a huge goblet, making a long soothing note. Very druidic. I wasn't really with that program, I'm not into group meditation, so I drifted back to the house for refreshments.

This local bunch of UUs here in Cookeville has some great people, but I've never been all that excited by organized religion. I should go back because the people are cool. Heck, here in middle TN we even have a small buddhist temple, though I understand the couple who live there are rather the more severe type of Tibetan school. Too tough for me.

As to the difference between the Unitarians and the Universalists, my take is that god is just too damn good to me. :D
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
51. Is THAT what that is!!
Edited on Thu Jul-10-03 01:19 PM by Capn Sunshine
I knew it was UU but never realized it was a flaming chalice. Looks like a guy with his head on fire to me.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
53. UU sympathizer
Currently a CINO- Catholic In Name Only. Prefer to stay Catholic but I think UU is the best Christianity for me and love what you all do.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Some call UU
A featherbed for falling Catholics. :-)
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I dunno could be but I am happy where I am now but I like y'all
I call myself LQUC which means Liberal Quaker Uniteran Catholic. I love the Quaker pursuit of peace, Uniterians for doing it all, and Catholics on social justice and all of these do their fair share. I like the Catholic church I respect the pope I dont agree with him on all though but I got a question where did UU start? IMO its a great thing and I think my aunt's boyfriend could be a minister I dont know I dont know him hes a liberal christian minister.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. UU A brief history
Unitarian Universalism is the result of a combining of two religions.

Unitarianism was the result of Arias disputing the claims of the trinity. The Catholic Church was attempting to force the issue of whether the Father, Son, and Holy ghost were one or seperate. Arias insisted that the trinity issue was nonsense. He was excommunicated for his trouble. He did not stop there. He essentially started the Unitarian religion.

Universalism was a later development. Its principles were founded on the notion that Jesus died for everyones sins. Period. End of story. There is no faith requirement. There are no conditions. Gods love is so great that Hell was abolished.

Over time the orthodox churchs spread due to various factors. The two sects found themself in rural communities serving as more of a nondemenational congregation. There association with farming communities is reflected in the fact that many churchs do not meet over the summer months.

The two sects often found themselves sharing the same buildings or lending a hand to each other. Even so individually they were fading relative to the mainstream churches. Thus in the mid 1960's they decided to join together and form the Unitarian Universalist Church. Some denominations still favor one name over the other and may reverse the title or even leave one off.

When these two churches came together they decided to open their doors to anyone that cared to join. They dropped their dogma and were quickly embraced by those that fell outside the mainstream. Throughout the sixties they were very active in the civil rights marches and though I can't recall the source there was one quote by a marcher along the lines of "UUs, weren't they those crazy white folk in the back of the bus with us?" UUs continue to be a very active and vocal part of social activism.

Modern day UU churchs as still the place for those that fall outside the mainstream. UUs as seen as gadflies or worse by some of the more fundimentalist churchs. Supporting the rights of those others would demonize. UUs came to the support in the recent fight over the Boy Scouts rejecting gays and atheists. The UUs renounced their association with the BSA until such a time as they rethought their prejudices.
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clyrc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. I'm a former Southern Baptist myself
but I recently found out a good friend from high school who used to be very Catholic is now a UU, and it made me think about how many former Catholics I've met in the UU Church.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. I had a UU friend
who sent his daughter to Catholic school. His daughter was a big girl. Tall. Sturdy. Apparently this school had a daily prosession of the cross. The bearer of the cross is selected from the students. She was of course frequently called on for the honors. One day the school photographer was snapping some shots of the prossesion and afterwards the head of the school asked my friends daughter if she was a proud Catholic to be carrying the cross. She replied she wasn't a catholic, she was a Unitarian Universalist. It took the preist a while to return to his normal coloration.
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MaryBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-10-03 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
62. In UU churches, you will find a lot of former
everything. It is a place of tolerance. When I've participated, the atheists seemed the least tolerant.
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-03 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
65. what's ironic
One of the only Unitarian Universalist members serving in Congress - - Nancy Johnson of Connecticut - - is a Republican.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-11-03 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
66. I'm not, my sister is
My sister just joined the UUs this year. I've been to the services,
and have thought about joining, but I live far away from any UU church.

My sister said that in one recent "sermon" (or whatever you call them in UU), someone read a Bush speech (or maybe a collection of malapropisms) as a joke.
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