Al From: "I have no quarrel with the war."

[BurtWorm]

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/03/sp_politics_from072903.htm

Washington, D.C.: The DLC was openly supportive of the war in Iraq. Now that the tide is turning, do you feel that your organization is facing the same predicament that Richard Gephardt is currently faced with? Can you attack Bush for something that you supported? Likewise, how can you justify the DLC's support of the war as anything other than blatant populism in an effort to make inroads into GOP voting coalition?

Al From: I thought the war was right before we went to war. I'm proud of the way our military conducted it - a military built by Bill Clinton, I might add. I still support the war. America and the world are safer without Saddam Hussein and his two sons. So I have no quarrel with the war. But I'm not so pleased with the way the Administration was unprepared for victory. We also need to win the peace. So as we support the war, we've been critical of the Bush diplomatic and post-war efforts. America is and will be the strongest nation and the greatest force for good in the world. I'd like to be that and have some friends, too.

[Cha]

1. Murderer!

[Iverson]

2. not murderer: appeaser

Note that the ethics of pre-emptive invasion are not on the table for discussion. Ta ta, Geneva Convention! It sure was swell to know ya.

[Mel]

3. disgusting

I think this link deserves to be posted here. Please check this out if you haven't already.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=378&mesg_id=378&listing_type=search
DagmarK
Corporate Takeover of US Govt: Mirrors the Kiwis from late 80s
***I ran across an interesting few posts in a Guardian talk group in the international forum under a thread entitled Calling All Americans VIII.

There is a chap (or lassie?) named mmuskin who is posting some important notes from a thread on DU from mid-October. I think we ALL need to read it. So I copy it here. (or the parts that mmuskin has already posted thus far).

This info is written by a New Zealander, and I wonder if that person is still posting here? I would SURE like to talk to him/her! The similarities in NZ’s handling of the corporate takeover of THEIR govt in the late 80s and what we see here are ASTOUNDING! And, to be fair to the dems (esp GBNC!) who say they will NOT vote for any bushlite dem even if that bushlite got the nomination, well……after reading about how NZ eradicated their cancerous corporate takeover, I tend to agree. It’s time we got radical and cleaned house in our govt and do it NOW. Not just elect some dems to do it for us sometime after Nov 2004!

To be fair, mmuskin lists some of the responders as: in a thread started by hedda_foil. Other posters' names included Mr_SmokesTooMuch, NewYorkerFromMass, jiacinto, ithacan, nothingshocksmeanymore, charlie, KoKo01, NYC, TahitiNut, bornskeptic, StlMo, Armstead, Classical_Liberal, Tinoire, WhoDoYouTrust, Merlin, TheSocialist2002, Tigermoose, LiberalLibra, BeHereNow, Pocho, Tigerlily, David Zephyr, and bpilgrim. I wish I knew who the (New Zealander) author was but I saved the entire thread and am only now attempting to render it readable from the saved HTML.

The most chilling quote in the WHOLE thing is this one, which I excerpted:

“So my only connection to the US is the knowledge that the US is the most powerful nation on the planet, and if these corporates get control of its military then we will ALL be screwed.”</snip>

[hedda_foil]

16. Mel, thank you for linking to DagmarK's VERY important thread.

I hope everyone who's reading this thread clicks on it. It's in the Bush, Conservatives and Conservatism forum, so many of you may have missed it.

[Brotherjohn]

4. No matter what the DLC says, the Iraq War is THE issue!

This election will be won or lost on it. It is not just 16 words. It is not just whether they exaggerated or lied us into an unjustified war. It is the entire concept of preventive warfare and the fact that we have trashed decades-old alliances and destroyed our credibility in the world to pursue this doctrine.

Sure, there are other issues which Bush can and should be challenged on. I mean, his record is pathetic! But Election 2004 can and should be about, more that anything else, the Iraq War.

[BurtWorm]

11. Yes. Why can't Democrats say this loud and clear?

Does this DLC really want us to shut up about Bush's complete ineptitude at foreign policy? His alienation of the whole world from our side in just 18 months? Do they really want us to pretend that we're just like Bush, only better?

[whoYaCallinAlib]

5. You can disagree but he reflects the mindset of a majority

of Americans. Obviously, he's pandering to the middle. Look, we need the middle and the left to win this election. I don't have a problem if he wants to strengthen our party's image on national defense. We can argue ideology AFTER we win back the WH.

[tinnypriv]

8. What part of *attacking* is "defense"?

Is it "defense" to not pony up the dough for anti-terrorist measures like defending ports?

Is it "defense" to go on a months vacation when you'd just been warned Bin Laden is probably gonna hijack some planes?

Is it "defense" to attack a country that is no threat to you and piss off all of your traditional allies?

Is it "defense" to be in bed with Saudi Arabia?

Is it "defense" to say to heck with cutting down dependency on oil and instead pretending global warming doesn't exist?

Is it "defense" to abandon Clinton diplomacy over North Korea and start calling their leader a pigmy?

Is it "defense" to destroy the social bonds of America while pouring more money into the corporate trough?

The Republicans ARE NOT STRONG ON DEFENSE. Why would you want to be like them?

[BurtWorm]

10. Three cheers, tinnypriv!

What you say seems ultimately commonsensical. Why shouldn't exactly what you've said be the Democrats' message on "security?"

[oasis]

12. Excellent points tinnypriv. No beating around the Bush.

:thumbsup:

[stickdog]

15. You mean he's siding with the 72% who think Iraq was actively supplying

al Qaeda with weapons of mass destruction?

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he should let those folks in on the little secret the rest of the world knows instead?

[primavera]

6. Yawn

Of course he has no quarrel with the piracy against Iraq: DLC only quarrels with Democrats, they've made that abundantly clear. What baffles me is that the Post is still willing to squander valuable paper reporting the irrelevent, obsequious views of the administration's walking toilet paper. :shrug:

[GainesT1958]

7. The DLC would do very well to dump its current leadership...

Evan Bayh REEKS of arrogance and obnoxiousness, and Al From is a little curmudgeon--and acts the part more every day! x(

Plus, anyone who supports pre-emptive war based upon a blatant LIE, as well as tax cuts busting the budget that Al From's favorite president, Bill Clinton, led the way in turning around to a surplus, well, all I can say is that I USED to consider myself a DLC-type Democrat, and still may on some issues. BUT...this rampant appeasement of Dub & Co. by the current DLC leadership won't win us any popularity contests, let alone any elections.

I don't take my marching orders from two oafs who (never went to war themselves, and yet) think that two American soldiers getting killed a day in a quagmire is just fine and dandy! :mad:

Al Gore gave 'em exactly what they deserved last year--a first-class SNUBBING--and I was proud of him for doing it!:D

As far as I'm concerned, they're fast re-making themselves from a powerful political force into an IRRELEVANT political force! :thumbsdown:

B-)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. The Democratic party would do very good to dump the DLC

"Damned Load of Conservatives"

[LondonReign2]

9. His reply

Al From: We think President Bush is pretty great, and we agree with almost everything he has said and done; he's done a fine job leading this country. But there are a few little things--nothing major, mind you, just maybe 1% of things--where we slightly, but not totally, disagree with him.

So if you think President Bush is doing a great job too, but occasionally make a very minor, hardly even noticable mistake, then vote for us!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. A good translation of DLCthought

and DLC "principles". When are they going to quit calling themselves moderate "Democrats" and admit to being what they are? Fuzzy Republicans.