Will "Appearance" of Roaring Economy Re-Elect Bush? Think So?

[KoKo]

If by using every resource they have and every trick in the book, Dumbya & Associates manages to keep the appearance of a strong economy going into election day does it really matter? What if the Stock Market is roaring and euphoria reigns in the pages of the WSJ and our of the mouths of the hawkers and hypers on CNBC about Bush's wonderful "turn around" of America?

Did Al Gore get credit for eight years of Growth and Prosperity? For creating a Surplus out of the Mountains of US Deficit under the Repugs?

Where was the payback for Gore with a safe country, housing boom, almost full employment, chickens in more pots and a market and economy that, while just beginning to take a downturn, had still produced the biggest period of prosperity in decades?

I think if we can ignore the hype about Economy and Stock Markets as a factor in the next Election it might help us to figure out what REALLY will throw the Ursurper out.

I'm not really sure what it will be, and I have very gloomy feelings about the health of our economy and the fundamentals of the stock market, but I do believe that it won't be the "apparent" health and robustness of America's financial underpinnings that does it.

However, it could be a worsening Job Market (much worse than now before end of year) and Corporate Control over our lives that becomes the issue for the Average American. There will still be those who can afford to buy Gucci, plasma tv's, the latest hot car and the 10,000 square foot house with the Media Room in the suburbs. There will be many folks who will be still living that lifestyle at the top. But, there will be millions who will be losing the house they mortgaged to the hilt, the cars they bought with the homequity loans, and what little financial security or health insurance they had managed to hold onto after the bubble burst.

I think it will be the "other things." Just my 2 cents observation after having much holiday financial reading.

[molly]

1. Image helps LOTS

most people don't get to the bottom of reality.

[Benhurst]

2. Eight years of growth and prosperity probably did help Al Gore.

He got ELECTED, after all.

[drdigi420]

3. good point

and this was despite the constant attacks from the so-called 'liberal media'

[KoKo]

4. Yes, he was elected but it should have been HUGE! That's my point.

Then we wouldn't have had to worry about Florida. BUT! he didn't get credit for the "good stuff." Why will Bush? There were other things wrong in the country. It wasn't just the economy. If we Dems focus on the Economy like Carvil did with Clinton, we don't have a chance. We need to focus on what the Economy is Doing to US!!!!

[AromaticSocks]

9. No offense but have you noticed who is in the WH?

Last I looked it was not Gore and the staff seems to be a bit more off-message than a Gore staff would have been. It's been almost four years now and four more could be lame.

[wryter2000]

5. The personal misery index

I don't think most people give a good GD about GDP or even the stock market. What'll matter will be what I think of as the personal misery index -- how many people are unemployed, bankrupt or in debt up to their eyeballs and/or know people in this position.

[tom_paine]

6. I think it all comes back to Orwellian Double-Standards

Orwellian Double-Standards are not possible in a Free Society with a Vigorously Free Press.

We have neither in Imperial Amerika, but the various illusions of what we used to have (or maybe never had in the way we idealize it).

So, in the end, it is not reality that is bent, but the way in which reality is perceived. This, then is what Orwell prophesied so terrifyingly accurately and which the Busheviks have placed in total operation.

Lots of things are merely "apparent" in Imperial Amerika. In every case that didn't involve Canadian Figure Skaters, the Imperial Subjects cared NOTHING and passively sucked up Pravda.

Given the immense power and funding of the Soviet-style Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media combined with the Formerly Free Press' seeming inability to do anything besides follow lazily in the wake of wherever the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media wants it to go, anything seems possible.

Could the economy be in a shambles yet the Imperial Subjects' perception of it be terrific, even if they themselves are unemployed and suffering bad times?

Absolutely. You betcha.

Orwell was right, he just got the title wrong by 17 years.

[KoKo]

20. Tom Paine, I'm just reading Zinn's "History of America in 21st Century."

I actually have observed what he said in my lifetime, but it's great to have it verified! And, having always been a bit of a "radical" in my observations...it's all coming home to roost.

I totally understand your frustration and cynicism.......I do......trying to keep our "head and brains inside whole" is a major chore these days! :eyes:

[markus]

7. What Roaring Economy

Two questions for anyone who says this:

How much of your income this month is from your stock portfolio, and how much from your paycheck?

(If they have an answer for this question, encourage them to vote Republican. Hell, encournage them to relocate overseas to avoid all taxation and just don't vote at all. Good riddance).

Do you know what a "gain in productivity" means? Did you work more hours in 2003 than you did in 2002? Did you get paid for those extra hours? Did you get a raise or bonus--on top of any overtime you may have been paid--because of your increased productivity?

Remind people that, at least on local radio and TV, those "stock market quotes" at the end of the day are brought to you by your local stock broker, who works on commissions and gets paid whether you make or lose money.

The stock market is not the economy. It is a Big Casino where the already rich get richer, out of our pockets.

[KoKo]

8. Yes....indeed....WHAT Roaring Economy. If you read just DU's "Stock

Market Watch" post and thread in LBN here, (posted by Ozy) you will understand that our economy is sort of like Santa Claus. It's a myth we are perpetuating to give the "innocent" something to take into their later years.

[asjr]

25. The hype will

continue at least through the election. Then we will see a depression worse than the 30s. I fear that will happen no matter who wins. The only ones who are gaining in the market are the ones who got the biggest tax cut. My son-in-law who used to be a broker is not even looking at the market now. The players on the propaganda stage are many. For the first time in history I see that we have an administration that is there for their own greed and power and do not care about this country in the least.

[PSR40004]

10. 2 in my family alone....

Are planning to vote bush due the economy taking off, and these two voted Gore in the last.

[KoKo]

11. Well.....it's only January 2004.....Are their jobs secure? Houses?

Those are the questions. Do they have Credit Card Debt? Houses they've taken equity out of?

Or, if they are renting, do they have enough to get into a house at this point with House prices through the roof?

Or, are they just "rich Repugs?" Just asking....not trying to flame you here.....you didn't give much info on those two. :-)'s

[Kathy in Cambridge]

14. Good Point, Koko

My dad runs a credit union and said that people are farther in debt due to the stagnant economy.

[PSR40004]

23. Both retired with little debt...

Both are retired and own homes with little debt I assume. The whole Bush was going to destroy SSI got them fired up to vote last time, they aren't seeing SSI ending and are now thinking he's not such a bad guy LOL.

[KoKo]

24. I don't have any debt either, but OMG, I'm lucky.....but those after us

are the ones who need to know how they are being manipulated.

[Skittles]

15. those two

are very ignorant

[rumguy]

Well I know two people who voted for Bush in 2000 but now support Dean

So I guess that cancels out those two huh?

[TreasonousBastard]

12. I don't know...

what the typical American thinks is going on with the economy, but I'm a little nervous about it.

Most seem to be working, and if they are working harder, they just sorta take it in stride.

Their mortgages have been refinanced, and they can get 0% on a new car. Basic expenses like food, gas, clothes... aren't going up fast enough to bother them. They still bitch about taxes more than anything else, and they're still paying their bills.

Maybe they know a lot of people laid off, or the big plant in town just shut down. Maybe business is slower than last year, or two years ago.

Current account deficit, Federal debt, overall consumer debt, corporate finagling, economic indicators... All of these are foreign to most people, and when you seem to be doing OK, if not great, and your own job doesn't appear to be on the line, those are just abstact notions that don't mean much to you.

But, if they see a problem somewhere, "prosperity is just around the corner." That line's been used as lot in the past, and it feeds the fantasy people want to believe in, and not what they fear may be the truth.

Bullshit from the White House comforts everyone. Keep pouring out the good news, even if it's not so good, and hope everyone buys ito it. Most people will, unfortunately.

I think mismanaging the economy is a terrifying problem, and should be on the top of the list again. But, I betcha Bush tries his best to defuse it and make the election over terrorism and gay marriage. I hope whever is runing against him keeps up the "Are you better off now than four years ago?" refrain.

And makes it stick.

[KoKo]

16. Treasonous, Your Post is Excellent! That's what I was trying to get at!

How do we convince Voters that what they hear about "Prosperity is Just Around the Corner," that it's MYTH......that we can't sustain this debt?

But, that they see George Bush/Repugs as the folks who are "Making them Safe" against CNN's BinLanden Terror Attacks (when Clinton was weak on defense) and yet there's HUGE Credit Card/Home Equity Debits/ and HYPE about Markets rise which hasn't given back us "oldies" our investments we lost prior to the Bubble Burst, is why I said: DEMS Cannot run on the ECONOMY! It's HYPE!

We have to point out the Corporate/Mutual Fund/Merger/Acquisitions/Job Losses to India/China/Singapore/Bangaladesh/Viet-Nam..etc!

Just ask them to read the tags on their Clothing purchases. No matter whether it's from Walmart or Gucci...or the Best High Price Dept Store in their town/city.....it comes from what used to be called "THIRD WORLD!"

AMERICANS are BECOMING a NEW THIRD WORLD.....but how long before we get the "Cheap, Low Priced, Non-Unionized Jobs here in America when the World Economy does it's big 360 degree circle?

Not in MY Lifetime!

[KoKo]

17. BTW....please read my answer above.....I took awhile in posting it...thank

you. I really feel this is such an important issue.....I don't want it to die or be corrupted by the Repugs and "spun out of sight."

[TreasonousBastard]

30. Beats me how...

to get the word out. If I knew, I wouldn't be sitting posting on DU in the wee hours . I'd be out kicking some ass about it.

I have a hat I bought 30 years ago that I still wear and looks pretty good. I love that hat, and it didn't cost me much. It has a union label in it, and I doubt a similar Chinese hat will last me 30 years. Sometimes, I use that hat as an example when bitching about our modern business practices. It's a pretty good symbol. Means more than pissing about Enron accounting or WalMart purchasing and labor practices.

Having spent a few years in sales, I've learned a couple of things. The main one is that you can't teach people anything. They have to learn it themsleves. What I mean is-- you can't make any headway telling them things they don't want to hear. The message has to be one they are receptive to. I used to just let them talk, and would hear of a problem they had that I could solve. Casually, I drew them into the idea that their problems had solutions, and then a sale was almost guaranteed.

That's the way advertising, propaganda, and memes work. Find a hook that people are receptive to, and they will respond. But the most important thing is that there be an answer to the problem.

If people are worried about losing their jobs, we have to have an answer to that. If they are worried about the resale value of their homes, we have to answer that. Right now, we have insufficient realistic answers to the personal economic problems people fear.

We don't even need exact answers. We need comfort food. We need assurance that whoever is in the White House next year will make it his business to put a team together to get the good jobs back, and not spend half the year on "working vacations" while the rest of us are looking for jobs.

Down here at ground level, we have to keep up the heat on the media to stop cheerleading phony good news. We have to keep up the little asides at the water cooler to get the point across. Things like "I have my job this week, at least" "I hope I have a job when the next payment is due" bumper stickers.

Stay angry, just don't talk angry-- that turns people off unless they paid to hear a speech.

It ain't gonna be easy, but we can do it.

(Sorry if I've ranted and rampbled. It's 4:30 AM here, and I'm back on the road in a half hour after no sleep tonight. I'm fried.)

[AromaticSocks]

19. I'm with your here but may I ask a question?

Are you working fulltme or more and paying a mortgage and rasing kids? I am.

I only ask because or your use of "they" often in your text.

Sick is relative to the pain at hand and I'm very sick.

[KoKo]

27. Until "treasonous" get's back to you "Aromatic" I think the post was using

they from a perspective of what folks might be feeling. DU has Oldies, Middles and Youngies on this Board. All of us have different perspectives given what we've lived through.

I think what you say about what you're going through isn't different from what "Treasonous" uses as they...it's just a different perspective?

I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe I didn't get what you meant and the poster will reply to you.

:shrug:

[TreasonousBastard]

31. Just little 'ol me in my cave, now...

and I keep my expenses low, but my income is by no means guaranteed. I have no idea from week to week what I'll be making, and am often a check or two away from homelessness.

Sorry if there's some confusion in word usage, but I used mostly the third person because I'm not talking about anyone here, but that vast, amorphous crowd out there that will decide things.

The American population is incredibly diverse, and makes its living in thousands of ways, but all pretty much share one goal-- to do a little better next year, and have their kids do even better than they do.

That ain't happening for a lot of us, and the real, gnawing, fear is that there is little we can do about it.

I share your pain, as does much of the country. Perhaps, just perhaps, we may be able to do something about it after all.

Keep fighting. Stay angry. When the pain does go away, remember how it started and vow to let no one else feel it.

[David Zephyr]

13. The Coming "Triple Dip Recession"

The weak dollar has driven international investments away from the dollar and into gold.

The recent small increases seen in the U.S. stock market are a reflection of the devalued dollar against international currencies.

Factor in the 35% decrease in value of the dollar against the Euro and then look at where the NYSE and the NASDAQ truly are in VALUE.

Also, keep in mind that the "increase" of a few hundred points in the NASDAQ to 2,000 is still a VERY LONG WAY DOWN from its high at over 5,000 three years ago.

November showed shocking decline in durable goods orders.

Foreclosures are rising, not dropping.

Bankruptcies are at an all time high.

And the real truth is that there are no jobs being created. CBS recently showed that the actual jobless rate is 9.5% when one factors in those who no longer qualify for "unemployment", those who have completely given up and those who are working at one or two "part time" jobs, but looking for full time jobs.

Now that the Christmas/Holiday season is over, watch for a significant rise in the unemployment numbers.

And...you heard it here first, look for America's first

TRIPLE DIP RECESSION.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. Foreclosures, Bankruptcies Highest Since The Great Depression

More people are entering the workforce than jobs being created.

You're comments are right on the money, David.

[DinahMoeHum]

21. Where are the jobs? Where are the jobs?

Ask 'em that question every time. See what happens.

If the economy is improving, where are the jobs?

:kick:

[KoKo]

22. Just my sense, but "Jobless Recovery" or "Low Wage Recovery" could be

a "hook" we Dems...need to be watching for. Right now there's euphoria and yet things are not back to where they were in most folks 401k's in 1999. Many young DU'ers don't have a grasp on what some of us are trying to say....they have years ahead, so the "immediate" is what they are thinking about...and rightfully so.

But, a huge portion of America is very worried...they just don't know who to blame. We Dems must put the blame where it lies. Back to Poppy and Reagan. And anyone whose been on DU for over a year, understands what that's all about.

The Media Whores can rant about "Recovery" and "Supply Side" and Tax cuts until the "Mad Cows come home to chow at the barn."

But, the Mad Cows have come home. It's up to us to put it into context for the clueless........:-(

[bvar22]

26. The bush* economy is just peachy....

...if you are in the top 1%. For the rest of us, it's just more bush*/republican lies and empty promises.

[Poiuyt]

28. Economy only looks good on paper

But not to the average American worker.

The large corporations have laid off half the workforce and are forcing the remainder to take up the slack. Fewer people working for the same amount of work...looks good on the bottom line. Send jobs to China or India at 1/5th the cost of having American labor do it...looks good for the stockholders.

But what about the workers who have been laid off from their nice middle class jobs? They're working at MacDonalds or WalMart.

The balance sheets look good for the corporations and Bush can crow about the economy taking off, but we are quickly losing the middle class in America.

[blm]

29. No kidding.

I expect lots of headlines for the next year that will be cheerleading the economy and Bush's triumphs till the votes are in.

Great post, KoKo.