Should Duers use the forum to create new (false) propoganda

[salin]

Poll question: Should Duers use the forum to create new (false) propoganda

against democratic candidates? Should this be a forum that weaves new propoganda memes to be picked up across the internet elsewhere? If a poster believes the cause of discrediting a candidate (even falsely) is so important to the greater good... is this a legitimate technique? Just wondering how far we believe we as a community (not talking DU policy here - talking user norms) should go in promoting our candidates?

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. why the hell not

fight fire with fire

[RogueTrooper]

2. No

and not only is it inappropriate, it's a disgrace.

[eileen_d]

3. Other

I don't get it. One person's "false propaganda" is another person's proven fact.

[Zomby Woof]

4. your point lost me

When you used the dreaded phony "meme". I stop reading posts as soon as that awfully pretentious term shows up. Not you too!!!

[salin]

11. I rarely use the term

but in this case it fit. Refering to taking things far out of context - weaving phrases/words together - even though the source mention clearly says something very different.... throwing in a hotbutton word into it... and hoping that the "issue" and smear (thus propoganda) takes off. Thing different with this scenario - is it uses something that is not propoganda... and creates it HERE at DU - with the intention of spinning it into an issue (and it is intentionally misleading/eg it is false)... with the likely intent that folks here at DU - will carry the new message - elsewhere.

Cute.

[Zomby Woof]

my respect for you is beyond question

I think you should KNOW that I cannot fathom DU without your intellect, high ethical standards, sound thoughtful viewpoints, earnestness, and gentle good humor. Everyone looks up to you, and so do I.

I just didn't expect you to be bitten by that word, lol. I think political debate has survived for centuries just fine without it. I don't know, it just smacks of pop psychology or weak philosophy. Plus (and this isn't directed at you), it gets abused by people on here when trying to deflect what they perceive as the SLIGHTEST offense against their candidate. Honest criticism (for example, expressing disagreement with Dean's tax plan because you won't think it will balance the budget within 5 years) is shot down with, "That's just a Rove-planted meme!" The person has ducked the issue because they lacked a real counter-argument, and they lost all credibility. They hide behind the word because it makes them feel educated and 'with-it' regarding the latest jargon. I know YOU are above that, and are TRULY educated. You don't NEED the latest jargon.

I am glad you said you use it rarely, and it is true you weren't dismissing someone's valid argument with it. I just reflexively cringe and run away now when I see it. Shall I go back to my corner and sit on the metal chair some more? :-)

[salin]

20. no chair... as you resisted the urge

to say "'nuff said"...

[GOPisEvil]

5. Propaganda is not a good thing to create or perpetuate.

We should be a source for information, not outright propaganda. But, that line is so blurry as to be indistunguishable these days.

Ooooh...you used "meme". I'm telling Zomby on you! ;-) (Edit - ooops, you're in trouble now.)

[NewJeffCT]

6. Reps do it all the time

Didn't Bush* have his folks push-poll McCain by saying he had a black child, was gay, crazy, etc?

[salin]

12. Of course it is done... but should we be starting that

stuff here? Is that our role? To deceive each other about democratic candidates and try to spread the falsehoods via propoganda?

[PVnRT]

7. No

It is disgraceful and only serves to makes us look like a bunch of petulant little brats arguing over who gets the last cookie.

But, that won't stop people from posting bullshit, so what's the point?

[Walt Starr]

8. Goning negative on any Democratic Candidate is the wrong thing to do

Whomsoever is the target of such a malicious attack could end up as the nominee.

This sort of nonsense should be identified immediately for what it is.

[blm]

9. It's wrong. Absolutely wrong.

I despised it when SBNA supporters of another spread the meme that Kerry was a "corrupt Washington insider" and "Bushlite" but I would never spread a propaganda meme even to avenge that act.

Honesty should matter to democrats. It should be what defines us.

[salin]

14. While I think repeating that crap is bad

I think creating new crap to spread here and beyond is even worse.

[DinahMoeHum]

10. Remember Reagan's unofficial "11th Commandment". . .

and apply it to the Dems:

"Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow (Democrat)"


:kick:

[Gringo]

13. Skinner has been pretty fair about locking/deleting flamebait

But I don't think that there's much that can be done about people trying to start unflattering memes about a candidate (witness today's Dean/Star Wars tidbit) It's pretty difficult to draw the line between using an out-of-context quote to create an impression of a candidate as something other than what he portrays himself to be, and simply drawing attention to an as-yet unscrutinized area of the candidate's record.

I think the Dean/Star Wars bit (or the Clark as GOP trojan horse) is essentially deceptive, but you have to trust DUers' ability to see through that. Fortunately, most of us demand links and sources so that we may read and judge for ourselves. And most of us know an evil source (newsmax, Wash. TImes) when we see one.

[salin]

15. Interesting piece. wasn't it

didn't look anything like the article... indeed the article said the opposite... but the theme (or meme... for zomby) was already picked up by another... funny how that works...

[Gringo]

21. Things will be harmonious when we have a nominee

The passion of wanting your guy to win, especially when someone you're afraid may lose against Bush is ahead, can turn otherwise thoughtful and nice posters into disruptor-like fiends. I don't think they fit the classic definition of disruptor because they ARE democrats, they hate Bush, and they are terrified of a McGovern-style defeat, and will do anything to try and prevent it. I disagree with them, but I understand why they do it, and I'll just bite my lip annd endure it untill the nominee is picked. I have faith in the American people that they will reject Bush, so long as we provide a candidate who is enough of an ideological contrast, and a forceful enough personality. Clark may very well be that, and I would support him if he were the nominee. But I'm more certain that Dean is that, so I continue to support him.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. NO. I am still waiting to hear how Kerry is connected to the BFEE

except that he belonged to a fraternity.

[Zomby Woof]

19. and played hockey with some dude in college

I think he hides Rove-planted transmitters in that big head of hair!

[PVnRT]

22. A fraternity?! EVIL EVIL!!!!

Don't you know that all people in fraternities are rich white folk that use the fraternity to plot ways to rule the world? OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

[salin]

23. LOL

This really is how that particular little item is brought up, when it is brought up. It isn't a particularly effective piece of propoganda... but some folks keep pushing it :shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Yes Franklin Delano Roosevelt is your evidence of such

[Zomby Woof]

26. FRAT MEME!!! FRAT MEME!!!

Stigma Alpha Meme!! My favorite frat!

[salin]

27. Perhaps but I sorta also like

Stigma Eta Meme :D

[Eloriel]

17. There have never been more disruptors here

And it makes me ill that DU -- members and admin -- allow DU to be used that way. Some groups are laughing their asses off at all of us.

[Onward]

18. No: The Truth is our Ally

Let's not demean it

[AntiCoup2K4]

24. If I want to see lies, I can watch FAUX news.

I expect better from fellow progressive Democrats.