Driving While Black: Do you think it's an important issue? What can we do?

[prolesunited]

I started this thread because a fellow DUer recently had this happen to him. It raised a lot of questions in my mind so I thought I would throw this out there for discussion.

Being a white woman, I've never had this happen to me. In fact, I've never even been asked to get out of the car when stopped, so I can't even imagine what this is like.

Do you have a story or someone else's tale to share? Is this something that happens more in the South than in other areas? Do police show a bias in their treatment of people when stopped? Is it justified for their own safety? How do you prove that this problem exist?

As starting points, here is a collection of stories from around the U.S.
http://archive.aclu.org/congress/dwbstories.html

The Stories, the Statistic and the Law: Why "Driving While Black" Matters
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/dwb01.htm

This is this outline for this article. Very enlightening reading.

I.THE COST OF GETTING STOPPED: FEAR, ANGER, AND HUMILIATION
II. THE STATISTICAL ANALYSIS
III. WHY IT MATTERS: THE CONNECTION OF DRIVING WHILE BLACK" TO OTHER ISSUES OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND RACE
A. The Impact on the Innocent
B. The Criminalization of Blackness
C. Rational Discrimination
D. The Distortion of the Legal System
E. Distortion of the Social World
F. The Undermining of Community-Based Policing
IV. THE LEGAL CONTEXT: HOW THE LAW ALLOWS AND ENCOURAGES "DRIVING WHILE BLACK" STOPS
V. WAYS TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM
A. The Traffic Stops Statistics Act
B. State Legislation
C. Local Action
D. Litigation
E. Search and Seizure Challenges Under State Constitutional Provisions, Case Law, and Statutes
VI. CONCLUSION

So, what are your thoughts on this issue?

[Punkingal]

1. I was stopped once on a Nevada highway....

with 2 African-American friends in the car with me. I am white. My best friend and her boyfriend were with me, and they asked if we had drugs, and could they search the car, etc. They really gave her boyfriend all kinds of shit, for no reason. If you've ever doubted they profile, don't, because they do. It was the most horrible thing I have ever witnessed. My friend is the nicest, most honest person in the world and to see her treated like that brings tears to my eyes to this day. (That was about 2 years ago.) I wish I had called the ACLU, but I didn't. We all agreed to just put it behind us. But that was wrong. We should have done something.

[prolesunited]

3. I'm sorry that happened

to you and your friends. It may have been even worse had you not been there. I do hope if that happens again that your friends would pursue it.

Unfortunately, they probably count on the pain and humiliation — as well as the hassle — to keep people from reporting it so they can continue to get away with it.

Thanks for sharing.

[AP]

2. There's a law professor at Yale who thinks that people...

...should have a cause of action against the government for violations of the 4th A.

His argument is that the only remedy for a 4th A violation is that you have evidence suppressed at trial. Ie, the remedy generally helps people who have committed a crime, or innocent people who are being railroaded (most innocent people would be found innocent becuase there wouldn't be the evindence needing suppression in the first place).

He says that the way to give the 4thA real bite would be to give innocent people a cause of action against governments who violate it.

Now, I suspect most driving while black stops would give rise to that kind of cause of action.

[prolesunited]

4. Well, judging by the response

posters evidently don't think it's an important issue. One last kick and I'll let this thread die from lack of interest. I really thought it would generate more interest.

:kick:

[Terwilliger]

6. Not as much interest is generated

because it's not about white people

If it were a popular issue right now more people might talk about it, but without any compelling reason, most would just let this issue pass.

[KG]

7. you dam skippy.

it don't happen to white people much, so it's not really a big problem.

oy.

[area51]

5. DWB

I think it's an important issue, but I don't have any solutions. And unfortunately, due to 9/11, there's also probably "driving while arab" too.

[prolesunited]

8. Actually, I think the term

has been modified to "driving while brown," but I didn't use that because people aren't as familiar with it.

[KG]

9. i'm waiting for some DUers

to show up and decry the DWB is just some manifestation of a 'victim mentality' or claim racism just isn't that bad in america anymore. :eyes:

[alarcojon]

15. I'm sure some DUers think that way, but

are aware that bringing it up here would be un-PC. I am Latino and have experienced a milder version of DWB - being referred to as "Chico" and "Jose" by traffic cops on two separate occasions. I should be happy I wasn't arrested or beaten!

I have on occasion discussed race with white people. They will generally get me to admit that racism isn't as bad as it used to be, and go from there to "it isn't that bad anymore". They typically don't like having that logical leap pointed out to them.

[prolesunited]

17. Thanks for sharing your story

And welcome to DU. :hi:

You certainly shouldn't have had to take that. Did you consider reporting them? Do you think it would have done any good if you had?

I think we should discuss race openly, even if it is a touchy subject. Unfortunately, racism is alive and well — people are just more subtle about it.

Besides the driving incidents, have you faced other types of racial discrimination?

[put out]

18. O.K, I think like that too.

I drive while blonde and middle-aged and I would have to do something very publicly illegal, or carry a flame-thrower to work, to be questioned. I have friends who request me to drive because they feel it keeps them safer. It is real for us.

[prolesunited]

19. I know

sometimes I feel guilty. I just got stopped for speeding the other day and I didn't have to get out of the car, be handcuffed, submit to a search or anything. In fact, he even offered me a seat belt violation in lieu of a speeding ticket. I don't think that would have if I were a brown male.

BTW, welcome to DU, put out! :hi:

[Mairead]

10. it's an INCREDIBLY important issue, as much for its symbolic value as

the practical one. It's a placeholder for all the shite that Black (and Brown) people *still* get in the good ol' 21st Century Yew Ess Of Ay.

But it's not important at DU because the DU population has been infiltrated by too many of the kind of people who commit the DWB harrassment. They might say 'oh yes it's bad', but they don't really care. It's not their issue. What they care about is ensuring that the status quo is maintained in every way that matters.

[KG]

11. yes, quite so.....

[nannygoat]

12. My Latino SO was arrested

for a fake license plate in Benson, NC even though I (I'm a white female) had had a slight fender-bender about six months earlier in the same car with the same license plate and with a state trooper investigating the accident. Guess he didn't run the license plate. It turns out that someone had stolen our license plate and put on one they had stolen from another city in NC. I NEVER noticed it even though we had probably put renewal stickers on the plates several times. I wound up having to go to court with him and showing the DA that we had continued to pay our registration fees and auto insurance continually even though we had this other person's plates on our car.

Driving while black or latino was a serious problem when I worked with farmworkers in eastern NC.

[TeeYiYi]

13. Discrimination is definitely a real issue for people of color and . . .

. . . the frustrating thing is that there is not a clear answer.

I have a friend who was treated horribly by the manager of a Chevron gas station.

My friend, one of the sharpest, most clean cut, well dressed, soft spoken good looking men I've ever had the priviledge to know. Nice car. Nice home. Good job. He also happens to be black.

He had just filled his gas tank which he paid for inside with his Chevron credit card and then returned to the car to find that he had locked himself out with the keys in the ignition and the car running. He went back in to the Chevron to use their phone and was turned down. The guy was an absolute jerk and my friend was totally humiliated. It was freezing cold outside and he was forced to walk a block to the Taco Bell down the street before finding a phone.

When my friend finally returned home after that nightmare, he called Chevron Corporate and in addition to filling them in on what had happened, promptly cancelled and cut up his Chevron credit card. Chevron headquarters called my friend numerous times to apologize and to tell him that they had fired the manager of that Chevron. The manager tried to call and apologize as well, before he got fired, but my friend wouldn't take the call.


TYY

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Google...

New Jersey Racial Profiling

and have some interesting reading. I don't know what other states have done about it, but here the shite really hit the fan. Daily coverage of the developments in the local fishwraps.

The head of the State Police was fired over it, two elections had it as a centerpiece, the state Attorney General's office and the state Supreme Court were slipping on banana peels over it, and there were large numbers of lawsuits, even by some minority state troopers.

Oh, it all started when some unarmed black kids were shot by the state cops during a traffic stop.

Ultimately, little was done. Records had been locked by the state police, or stonewalled if not blocked, and no one's been looking too closely at the 600 or so other police departments in the state. Except for the one guy who was fired, hardly anyone has been called to account. And, he only got fired for being stupid-- he said the profiling was a good idea and didn't know what all the fuss was about. After all, he said, we all know blacks are the drug dealers. Don't we? Whitman had to dump him for that. Since then, btw, the state cops have managed to kill the appointment of anyone who might have a chance of changing the culture. Local and county cops do whatever they feel like, and nobody asks any questions.

Investigations are yet ongoing, sort of, and everyone admits racial profiling did occur, which is a step more than in a lot of other places. Orders have been given to stop it, but enforcement of those orders is questionable.

I still see plenty of cops with their high beams on at night, allegedly looking for seatbelt violations... or terrorists...

[luckyluke]

16. I've never had a problem while driving...

...I'm brown, and I've never been pulled over in the last 10 years. It helps that I don't speed, or act suspicious.

Flying is different. Since 9/11 I always feel nervous because I could be taken to be an Arab (I'm not, but I look it) young male. I've never had any issues though.

-ll