O.K. I hate to be negative but my sympathy is minimal......

[vi5]

On edit: Before the flames come, I am speaking of personal experience here. People who I know who had family in the military who called me a saddam sympathizer and anti-american and every name in the book because I was against the war and didn't want their friends/family to have to go through that.. And this week I have had encounters with the same people who want to act like they never said those things to me.
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For the families of the military personnel who are complaining about their loved ones being over there and who are speaking out about it.

I don't want to generalize, but when any of us who were oppossed to the war were speaking out against it we were told how hard it was on the families of the soldiers to hear that knowing their loved ones were over there. We raised red flag after red flag after red flag and were shunned and told how we were saddam sympathizers and how we didn't support the troops and that we gave aid and comfort to the enemy. Many times it was these same family members of soldiers who chastized us.

NOW they want to complain? NOW after 5,000 plus dead Iraqi civilians they want us to equate supporting the troops with getting them the hell out of that place? NOW they expect us to weep for their plight?

I do sympathize with them to a certain degree but I sympathized with them BEFORE this war when they were the ones who could have helped us when we tried to do something about it. They could have stood there with us all and decried the rush to war. They could have waved their flags and held their pictures aloft. But with few exceptions they didn't. So I'm sorry if my sympathy is a little less so now that there is a country in rubble, with 5,000 innocent dead and an entire history gone up in flames.

Sorry if this is a dickish thing to say but its how I'm feeling right about now.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PretzelWarrior]

3. bullsh!t. I totally understand his feelings. who are you?

it's not like he/she hopes troops died. Hey, get this: military families are supposed to buck up and deal with troops gone.

Irony: Our troops are worst detractors of troops. They look pretty dam sappy. How long did citizen soldiers wander N. Africa, France, Pacific islands, etc. before they got to go home?

THis is perfect case that EVERYONE of young generation is spoiled--including military and their families. HELLO>>war has only started 4 months ago. Pretty sad.

[vi5]

7. Thank you...

I know what I said can seem cold but over the past so many months I hate to say but I have found myself hardened more and more to many things.

[jrthin]

21. I totally agree with you. And, no, you do

not sound cold. You sound like those of us who marched in the streets to prevent these kids from fighting in an unnecessary war. But many of these kids and their families were too caught up in patriotic madness.

[Pepperbelly]

2. I don't believe that it was the families who wrought that particular ...

jewel but the right-same politicians who are mangling our once great nation.

[Cheswick2.0]

16. I have personal experience that it was the families

my own sister spoke the same shit to me about all the patriotic and wonderful military folk where she lives in Virginia. My brother is in the Navy and is overseas and his wife and our sister think that they have the right to silence everyone when it comes to what is and is american,patiotic or good for the military.

[Pepperbelly]

20. that sucks ...

what does everyone do?

Let her?

Just curious.

[hlthe2b]

4. While I don't want to come across as condescending/patronizing...

I do think many of our enlisted suffer from considerable "brain-washing," which seems to have shaped their opinions prior to the war, support of rethuglicans, and their sense of "patriotism." While the truth is beginning to dawn on them, many of them were exploited into making the decision to go into the military to begin with, with promises of training, education, benefits they were not otherwise able to obtain... They are a cross section of American demographics and as we all know many Americans are ignorant of politics, history, and certainly world events.

I do have sympathy for the manner in which they were manipulated/exploited. I only wish they'd wised up earlier and listened to many of us...

[w13rd0]

5. All dissent has been marginalized and shouted down...

...since Bush stole office. Many of them were speaking out before the war, but no one heard them. No one was listening. We were a "focus group"...

[NNN0LHI]

6. Man that Bill Moyers is something. Oops. Wrong thread. Exit stage left n/t

[roguevalley]

8. it is dickish. But it is so because if we value human life as a protestor

for war, we MUST value theirs too. I wonder if there
would be the same grinding chorus if there had been a
draft. And when it comes, and it will, will the same
tune be playing?

[ferg]

9. not all the military supported the war

I don't know of any poll on the military on how many supported it, but it was certainly not 100%.

Not everyone in the military are freepers. And the military isn't supposed to speak out against their officers or against nutsos like Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush.

And they were told it would be a cakewalk with the freed Iraqis celebrating and sending roses. Yes, believing that was naive, but many of the soldiers are barely more than kids.

Better to put the blame where is belongs: with Bush and his merry band of insane neocons.

[ott]

10. I met military family members during protests

So, throwing a blanket over the whole thing isn't really fair. I do see your point though and your feelings are certainly valid. I also share them to a degree.

The past is the past though, and we have to welcome common sense with open arms no matter how long it took it to come around.

[vi5]

12. I agree 100% and anywhere other than DU I would never say this.....

Because my sympathy will take over in real life. And I do know that it wasn't 100% of the military families or the soliders that supported the war.

It's just one of these instances where I'm just feeling hopeless and negative and where better than this forum to vent.

[jody]

11. It could be you in Iraq. If drafted, will you serve, run, or go to jail?

It is very likely the draft will be implemented in the next few years. The question I pose regarding what you will do if drafted is important.

If you choose to run, then you're getting a free ride from society exactly like AWOL and his chicken hawk friends did in the 60s and 70s.

Its very costly, this thing called "freedom" that we talk about and march for. Are you ready to pay your part of the cost? :shrug:

[vi5]

13. I'm not following? I'm not talking about the troops themselves....

I'm really not. They always have had my sympathy. They are just doing a job they signed up for that got hijacked by a bunch of neocons.

I'm referring specifically to people I know who had family members in the military.

And to answer your question if the war was just I would fight if drafted. If not I would stay and face my punishment.

All of this is moot though since I am well over draft age and have enough medical conditions for 10 deferrments.

[jody]

18. I understand, but a military person doesn't have the option to choose

the wars in which they fight. To refuse to fight is punishable which could mean death. A refusal to be drafted also carries stiff penalties.

You attempt to separate people on active duty from their families, but that's impossible. A military family is a resilient, cohesive unit under adverse conditions, but what we have here is abnormal from a military perspective.

The best support we can give the military families is get our troops out of Iraq as soon as possible, but don't ignore the military families.

[vi5]

19. You're right. I do agree with you...

My post is basically an off the cuff reactive statement. I come from a family of military people including WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and Gulf 1 vets. So I am sympathetic.

[jody]

24. I'll drink to that.

:toast: Glad to meet you. :hi:

[Forkboy]

17. What a bunch of jingoistic hooey

What freedoms are they protecting right now in Iraq? The right to pump oil? The freedom to kill a bunch of innocent people whenever we want? :crazy:

And why try to call the posters patriotism into question at all?

[jody]

22. Because many who denigrate the military or military families would

run before they would be drafted.

The author of this thread explained to my satisfaction that he/she would fight in a just war and accept punishment if he/she refused to fight in an unjust war.

I admire and respect a person with such strength of conviction.

I don't like people who disparage our military or military families if they would run if their country drafted them into the military. Those people are just along for a "free ride" like AWOL and his chicken hawks.

[PretzelWarrior]

26. stupid stupid. my uncle went to prison during Vietnam

my dad narrowly missed prison. They refused to recognize him as consciencous objector...he got married young and had kids and they were still going after him.

If there was a real war worth fighting for our very territory and liberty...well that would be different. But I don't see that happening in my lifetime. We live in the empire.

I think you should be on the ass of these people who knew they were joining an ARMMYYYYY or that their husbands/wives were. They have to deal with their choice. Just like the Dixie Chicks gotta deal with theirs.

[jody]

28. I hope time will bless you with wisdom.

:hi:

[Cheswick2.0]

14. that is exactly how I feel

you are exactly right

[stanwyck]

15. I think we're seeing the symptoms

of our very self-involved society. Many of us did protest this "war"..actually, this invasion. War is overstating the opposition. We were against this illegal action from the start. Bush was wrong to say the "war" was over. More troops have now died than in the Gulf War. Nothing is over. Too many Americans lack empathy for the Iraqi people. Our bombs killed without discretion. Now our troops are in a horrible situation. Terrorists couldn't have planned a better setup: they can pick off our soldiers whever they want. An actual "war" was way beyond the Iraqi's capabilities. But daily strikes at our troops are easily accomplished. This is insanity. You're right. The families should have been opposed from the beginning. Too many people have some fantasy idea of what war and being a soldier is. So, when reality hits, it's painful. Now we're suffering as our victims have. Bush + Co. have given people very unrealistic expectations. "Shock and Awe". The amazing hubris of this administration.

[MaryBear]

23. This rings back to the Viet Nam war, where still

some people talk about the poor soldiers who came back to no cheering, no thank you's. On one level I can feel bad for those who live through such horror. On another level, I ask what they thought they were doing when they allowed themselves to be sent. Others say, well, it affects morale. All this discussion begs the issue that they should not be there in the first place, and, no, I will not be quiet about that, either, vi5.

[Rebellious Republican]

25. Take advantage of their change of hearts and minds, lets use ...

opportunity to turn one of Dubya's biggest support base's against him. Here is a chance to stop this war, and the killing. Contact this group http://www.mfso.org/

Military Families Speak Out is an organization of people who are opposed to war in Iraq and who have relatives or loved ones in the military. We were formed in November of 2002 and have contacts with military families throughout the United States, and in other countries around the world.

As people with family members and loved ones in the military, we have both a special need and a unique role to play in speaking out against war in Iraq. It is our loved ones who will be on the battlefront. It is our loved ones who will risk injury and death. It is our loved ones who will return scarred from having injured innocent Iraqi civilians.

If you have family members or loved ones in the military and you are opposed to this war, join us. Send us an e-mail at [email protected] .

:kick:

[Noordam]

27. The Military Vote in Florida was ONE major reason

Bush is in the WH not Gore.

They got what they voted for.