CSPAN - MARCH ON WASHINGTON (on Now and again at 8pm)

[Dover]

CSPAN - LIVE : MARCH ON WASHINGTON

At 11 A.M. ET (Now) and again at 8 P.M.

http://www.c-span.org/

[Q]

1. So many protestors that you can't see the FReeper rally...

...there will be many speakers today...including Sharpton, Clark (not Wesley) and others.

- What other Democrats will show up? My guess in....none.

[Terwilliger]

7. which Clark?

not Wesley? Susan?

by the way...Dennis Kucinich is supposed to speak at one of the rallies (I think)

[Dover]

11. Ramsey Clark................n/t

..

[Some Moran]

22. :(

Not a guy I'm crazy about. He supports Quebec's draconian language laws for some odd reason.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

103. Kucinich is in NH today but he sent someone to speak for him

[Tripper11]

2. You beat me to it Dover....

Cheers mate!!!

Watching now on computer while perusing DU!

[PunkinPi]

3. thanks for the reminder :) eom

[Q]

4. Military Families Speak Out...

...is represented at the 'March'.

- People are still arriving.

[La_Serpiente]

5. Wow, it sounds so powerful

Kind of inspiring don't you think

[Q]

6. Look at all those people- Americans...

...against this illegal war/invasion/occupation in Iraq!

- Makes me proud.

[messiah]

8. I'll bet

there will be complaining about how those speaking at the rally will turn people off to the movement.

[Q]

10. Only Republicans and NeoDems will complain...

...but...THIS is what Democracy is all about...

[bluedog]

9. proud YES

considering that bush only "won" by 537 votes...the military families now will vote against this ahole

[rasputin1952]

12. I wish I was there!!!!!!!!...

My brother is there, and it looks COLD! Hope I get to see him.

Hope they show the 20+ Freepers that show up! ROFLMAO...I bet there are less than the last one !


:bounce:

[rocktivity]

64. Yes, Rasputin, I remember it well

rocknation

[Mari333]

13. This song is making me cry

.

[tridim]

14. Did you catch the names of the singers?

I was just listening, not watching.

[Tripper11]

15. Camera just panned the crowd...

I know it's early, but looks like a pretty good turn out so far, and that camera angle was from the middle area of the stage and didn't get the other side.
I couldn't guesstimate a population though.

Anyword on the freep rally and the "thousands" there?

[Tripper11]

16. UH oh....

the Raging Grannies!!!!! Don't mess with them!!! Geat song!!!!

[Q]

17. Georgie Porgie, you're all wrong, bombs are not the answer...

...the Grannies were great.

[KoKo]

18. The "Raging Grannies" are Great! Hope they make the nightly news!

This is the kind of thing we need to see more of!

[burrowowl]

25. Loved the Raging Grannies

the crowd did too!

[Darranar]

19. Direct link:

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspanradio.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CSR&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=

[hedda_foil]

20. The crowd looks thin. Have the busses been delayed?

There should be substantially more people there by now.

[Q]

21. This is George Bush's* America...

...and many Democrats are afraid to show up for fear of being called 'unPatriotic' or 'anti-Bush'. Remember...much of the Dem party is FOR this war.

- Sharpton is probably the only high-profile Dem that will show up today.

[Spazito]

24. They announced that all the buses should be there by 1:30 pm...

so there will be many more by then.

[eleny]

23. "How many gallons of blood does he need...

to fill his tank?"

This dad was the powerful speaker I've seen so far.

[Q]

26. kick...

...erino

[tinanator]

27. what time does Howard Dean speak?

He's there, right? He organized the event probably, right? He's down with it, right? AIPAC is all about the peace movement, right?
Cant wait to hear his inspirational words of encouragement and support.

[ShaneGR]

28. Why would any of the Dem candidates be there?

Its an ANSWER event, or whatever the organizer is. They aren't just talking about Iraq either. It's all over the place. Speakers talking about a WIDE range of material, most I agree with and some I don't. It's not all about Iraq or Aschroft either, as there have been a quite a few speeches talking about South America as well.

The point is that this event isn't exactly something a Presidential candidate goes to.

[Tinoire]

29. Dean? At an anti-war march? The man isn't anti-war!

He's not even anti "this" war. Why on earth would he attend?

The only two who have ever appeared at anti-war marches and put their money where their mouth and principles are are Kucinich and Sharpton.

=====

Howard Dean the liberal, anti-war candidate? The laughter rings most loudly in Vermont. As Dean's candidacy caught fire over the summer, a number of articles have appeared on the net examining his history and current stance on important national and international issues. They all point to a Clintonesque Republicrat whose stances are not far from that of the current administration.

Foreign Policy

Although he publicly opposed attacking Iraq -- a smart political move setting him apart from the other Democratic candidates -- Dean recently declared in a Washington Post interview that he is now opposed to a pullout of US troops from Iraq. According to the interview, he now feels we must stay as a matter of national security, and not allow another anti-American regime to develop. Of course, events on the ground seem to indicate that the occupation itself is what is creating anti-Americanism in Iraq, but most politicians wont acknowledge that. Deans basic objection to the war was to the Bush administrations unilateral approach, without UN approval. But what about Washington-driven wars that are not unilateral? What if the Security Council were arm-twisted into support? What about multilateral wars like the war on Iraq in 1991, or the ones on Yugoslavia and Afghanistan? Plain and simple--Dean supported them.

Although he would likely be more sparing in its application, Dean has endorsed the Bush doctrine of preventive war, saying that he would not rule out using military force to disarm either North Korea or Iran. Dean has never voiced an objection to the notion that it is Washington's prerogative to decide which countries may have nuclear weapons, or its right to forcefully disarm those who do not do so voluntarily. In addition, Dean does not support cutting the defense budget, either for routine military expenditures, now at over one billion dollars/day, nor the extra supplementary appropriations to support the Iraq occupation, currently at four billion dollars/month.

Dean's notion about the causes of anti-US belligerence echoes that of the current administration. He has gone on record saying as much: "I think our freedom is what they find so threatening, our freedom and the power that I think results from that freedom." This analysis can not honestly address the real issues behind the antagonism the United States currently incurs, and will consequently require ever greater military funding to handle the global consequences. Sounding very much like Bush, Dean has charged that Iran (along with Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Libya) are "funding Palestinian terrorists and fueling terrorism throughout the world." Do we need four more years of this?

When it comes to Israel and Palestine, Dean thinks the US should become more involved, but beyond that have no fundamental objections to the Bush administration policies in the region. He calls for an end to Palestinian violence against Israeli civilians, but not for a cessation of Israeli violence against Palestinian, nor an end to the Israeli occupation. He ignores Israeli defiance of UN Security Council resolutions and the Geneva Accords, and has been silent concerning withdrawal from Israel's illegal settlements in the occupied territories or even concerning a freeze on the new construction.

<snip>

http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html

[0007]

47. Where in the hell is your head tinanator?

Please! This is not the time.

[tinanator]

115. up my ass, where else?

only safe place to keep it while I worry about sheeple being led astray by their lying exploiters who find it such easy work these days.

[WilliamPitt]

30. Is your candidate there?

[tinanator]

105. thought he would be (in SF), but I wasnt so cant say

Foolish me, too busy prepping and serving food for the homeless to go marchin today. Sorry.

[matcom]

31. this is FUCKING SICK!

how DARE you turn an anti-war rally thread (a massive march on washington and san fran) into a Dean (OR ANY OTHER CANDIDATE) BASHING THREAD!

perverted.

twisted.

:puke:

[Tatiana]

33. Agreed.

The thread should be for the purposes of encouraging and celebrating our constitutional right to dissent.

Bless the marchers, organizers, and bless those wonderful Grannies!

[WilliamPitt]

35. Perverted. Twisted. Typical.

:eyes:

[revcarol]

96. So, ,,,,,,,,,,Sharpton is there....

Dean doesn't dare show his face at real anti-war rallies, just for his supporters. HMMMMM, remind you of anyone?

[goobergunch]

98. *points to post #31* (n/t)

[tinanator]

106. thanks! thats me to a "T"!

Now, if you can direct some of that anger at the wolf in Dean's clothing who has the prosthetic balls to claim he is the only anti-war (as if he is even one) candidate in the race, who has the boldfaced temerity to break his first campaign pledge to commit to matching funds (whoops, the moneys too good for his word to matter).
A party which has NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER in a democratic process
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nyt/20031025/ts_nyt/somedemocratichopefulsquestionvalueofdebates
and the single candidate who shines with real light and peace has to withstand the phony slings and arrows of posters who make laughable proclamations about "electability" "polling results" and any other red herrings they can toss to interfere with a legitimate anti-war candidacy, the only one that can or will truly oppose the Bush Machina and whip him in any fight, fair or unfair. Well, shame on me for taking things too seriously right now.

[dmr]

40. tinanator

I don't know who you are, but from this point forward, when I see any of your posts, I will remember that you take cheap shots.

An opportunist whose goal is to divide during the unity of a pro-peace march.

Twisted.

[tinanator]

107. or

you might get the facts. your choice.
love those who are repelled by Mumia and Palestinian issues.
Yeah, Im divisive! lofl.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Factual question

One of the speakers referred to Ashcroft messing with the Philadelphia elections.

What's that about?

[Bozita]

39. FBI bugged the mayor's office. Bitter, partisan mayoral election is ongoin

google: FBI Philadelphia mayor bug

[burrowowl]

34. It looks like

more people are getting there.
There is a thread to tahnk C-Span, good idea!
Can't wait for DUers who are there to come home and report.

[La_Serpiente]

36. Al Sharpton is on

I am looking forward to this

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. Go Al !!!

Are any other candidates speaking there today???

[seventhson]

38. My 14 year old daughter is there with a Take Back the Media.com sign

wave to her if you see her. She's there with her dreadlocked Mom.

[dweller]

82. My 16 yr old daughter is there also

with her grandmother, one of the raging grannies. she was able to get a bus ticket at the last moment yesterday. I'm glad to see they made it there.
i'll have to check out the video on cspan.
dp

[Imajika]

41. Nothing about this rally..

...will have any positive influence whatsoever on mainstream Americans. This event simply looks nothing like a popular uprising of Americans against war, it appears more like a collection of far left groups screaming and yelling for media attention.

Just listening to the speeches and looking at the signs I think average Americans seeing this rally would gravitate away from the anti-war cause and not towards it.

Bush is a Nazi shirts, Palestinian Flags, Socialist Worker signs, US hands off Cuba speeches...... I'm sorry but this is the kind of stuff that turns off the majority of Americans.

I am sure the "free Mumia" folks will be speaking soon enough (if they haven't already). Nothing excites America more than a few thousand people cheering for a cop killer.

Imajika

[Spazito]

43. Hmmmm, like they didn't work during the Vietnam war?

*

[Imajika]

51. No....

..the anti-war rallies during the Vietnam war appeared largely made up of average Americans, not partisan ideologues. The anti-war movement during that time may have indeed started with "radicals", but most of those arrving at the bigger protests just wanted the US to get the hell out of Vietnam because they were fed up with the lies and a war it was obvious America was never going to win - the people were not supporting socialism, or advocating freeing convicted cop killers, or screaming about the evils of the US economic system.

This rally is not a single issue event drawing thousands upon thousands of average Americans who are otherwise not very political, but whom are fed up with war enough to protest it. Instead, this is a gathering of special interest groups yelling and screaming about how terrible America is and waving banners for causes average Americans would in no way support.

A majority of the American public, if they even bother to watch any of this at all, would in no way relate to most of these speakers or much of the audience.

It would be much better if they held rallies like this and stuck to the main point instead of yammering on about Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, freeing cop killers and the evils of the American capitalist system.

This rally simply will not have a positive influence on most Americans. Infact, I believe that people who bother to watch would be more inclined to turn away from the movement.

Just my opinion.

Imajika

[eleny]

60. The difference between now and the Vietnam Era is the draft

Even back then, the movement built very slowly over years. As the war escalated, so did the protests gather middle America to it. I don't have a problem with many of the smaller interest groups since their concerns are knit together by our foreign and domestic policies.

If the military doesn't meet it's enlistment goal, then there will some day be a draft and all hell will break loose across the country. I'm afraid that will happen sooner than later.

Frankly, I'm not motivated to speak against how this rally and march was organized since I'm sitting here in the cushy comfort of my house and not there in chilly, windy D.C. Nor did I participate in organizing anything.

[ShaneGR]

61. Agreed

It's a shame too, because the organizers do have their hearts in it. The vet stuff and whatnot.

The problem is that a LOT of these speakers are simply the head of one website or another. And a lot of their speeches end with stuff like:

Go to freemumia.com

Make sure to visit CIAisthedevil.org.

Hurry over to peaceforlatinamerica.org.

Like I said before, I loved the raging grannies.

[eleny]

97. "And a lot of their speeches end with stuff like:...

Go to freemumia.com"

I don't doubt what you heard. I was watching for a couple of hours and didn't hear anyone mention Mumia. Perhaps they did before I turned on the set. Most everyone I saw ended with something about bringing the troops home.

I agree, though, that if a large nuber of speakers spoke out for Mumia, an anti war rally is not the place for it.

[ShaneGR]

46. Yeah, I had to switch it off

It's just a little too radical. My main complaint is the lack of coherent strategy. The speakers are all over the place.

I did love the Raging Grannies though!

EDIT: I turned it back on for a bit, I had no idea there was a Phillipines resistance group! Hey, didn't we save the Philipines from the Japanese?

[Mari333]

50. I would like to see at the rallies

more Vets onstage, soldiers onstage, parents of soldiers onstage, middle class americans who lost their jobs onstage, people who voted for Bush and wont do it again onstage.
That would reach Middle America. I am glad, however, that Bring the Troops Home is the main theme in the banner behind the speakers.

[Imajika]

52. Bingo.....and great post

"I would like to see at the rallies more Vets onstage, soldiers onstage, parents of soldiers onstage, middle class americans who lost their jobs onstage, people who voted for Bush and wont do it again onstage. That would reach Middle America."

Precisely.

Imajika

[ShaneGR]

58. I have NO problem with what you said!

more Vets onstage, soldiers onstage, parents of soldiers onstage, middle class americans who lost their jobs onstage, people who voted for Bush and wont do it again onstage.
That would reach Middle America. I am glad, however, that Bring the Troops Home is the main theme in the banner behind the speakers.

Get rid of everything else. FOCUS on what is important. If some middle-american turns on CSPAN and sees the Phillipino resistance, they switch it off.

If they turn it on and see any of what you just said, they watch.

[Pastiche423]

63. If some middle-American

turns on C-Span, they may get an education about what is happening in the Phillipines.

How terrible would it be to inform Americans about what is being done in our name around the world?

[bearfartinthewoods]

53. i have a complaint

someone needs to tell the speakers that there is a system for amplification of their voices. there is no need to constantly scream.

if every word from every speaker is yelled, the message is dulled.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

55. We fucking killed 600,000 of them

Good christ almighty, educate yourself before you post idiotic stuff.

[tinanator]

108. might as well hold your breath

Im sure theres more where that came from

[Blitz]

56. Did you see the speaker calling for the end to U.S. "occupation"

of South Korea? Who knew? I'm sure she'll get a lot of support for that position back at Seoul. And of course, there was the obligatory Mumia speech captioned "from death row" even though he hasn't been "on death row" in some time.

Sharpton did take some very pointed shots at Dean, Clark, et al. (everyone but Kucinich, I believe). That was pretty interesting. And the grannies were amusing.
Anyway, I'm in San Francisco, so I'm off to the Red Bull Flugtag at Pier 30.

[tinanator]

109. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

but dont let that stop you. Its INFUCKINGCREDIBLE the ludicrous garbage that "Mumia commentators" post in these parts. What sad sights.

[Imajika]

57. Ya....

"I turned it back on for a bit, I had no idea there was a Phillipines resistance group! Hey, didn't we save the Philipines from the Japanese?"

..that's what Americans care about. Philippines resistance groups.

I had to stop watching, but it's almost a no-brainer that it is probably some communist group screaming about Imperial America.

You just can't excite normal Americans with this kind of message.

At some point, if the ANSWER rallies hold to form, some student group supporting North Korea is bound to be given speaking time. How can average Americans take seriously a demonstration with advocates of North Korea giving speeches? I mean, even the dullest of Americans know that the North Korean communists are perhaps the most horrific, backwards, repressive government in the world.

The anti-war movement will not have any success reaching average Americans with these kinds of demonstrations. They just won't.

Imajika

[DisgustipatedinCA]

66. Why don't you turn off your TV and get off your ass

and quit bitching. If you don't like it, go do what you feel WILL appeal to mainstream America. If all you can do is moan and whine about what you don't like about this rally, then quit watching it. Maybe some people don't give a good goddamn whether or not this appeals to DLC'ers or to people who can't decide whether or not to vote for Bush. Maybe they just want to exercist thier First Amendment rights, even if YOU think they look like radicals. Maybe it doesn't much matter what you think. You're not helping anyone, sitting around bitching when you should be out doing something about it.

And yes, before you ask, I'm getting ready to go to a rally in my town.

Edited to let you know that it's spelled "yeah".

[bearfartinthewoods]

69. ease off

this is a discussion board and people get to express their opinions.

if you don't agree with someones opinion you can say so without throwing a hissy fit.

btw...did i just hear a speaker call for solidarity with NORTH korea?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

73. What's wrong with solidarity with North Korea?

I'm talking people, just like the speaker was. Not the government of North Korea. What do you have against the people of North Korea?

Ease off? Why, when the poster has nothing to do but bitch and moan about what they don't like about the rally? The poster could turn off the TV, you know. And you're right, this is a discussion board. Here I am discussing what I think, and so is the other poster, and if I'm not mistaken, you're complaining about people speaking too loudly.

I'm so goddamned sick and tired of centerist, milquetoast, DLC-types complaining about what they don't like about the left. These are typically the same people who accuse Greens of supporting Bush. Guess where the Greens are today? They're out DOING something, marching, rallying, speaking. The DLC-types are sitting at home and trying to figure out how we can be more like the Republicans in hopes that voters will feel sorry for them and give them the vote they intended to cast for Bush.

Hissy fit? Your words, not mine, but I can and will reserve the right to argue with someone who just wants to complain, on this day of action.

[bearfartinthewoods]

93. you have every right but the board calls for us to be civil

and i have every right to say this was just another mish-mash, focusless, ultra-left whineing, screamfest, masguarading as an anti-war rally.

the reason the numbers at the speeches look so pitiful is because people opt out and just march which really should give the organizers a clue.

salute! to the marchers...

[goodhue]

118. amen n/t

[drdon326]

74. Agree

Now there is a rapper.....

this is getting a little embarrassing.

[LittleApple81]

62. The history of the Phillipines is a complicated one. But the US

played an ugly role in it for a long time. During the second war the Phillipines was an American "colony", wasn't it?

Read this article, it is very good:

From Baghdad to Manila
Another lousy analogy for the occupation of Iraq.
By Fred Kaplan
Snip…
The comparison between Iraq and the Philippines may be more accurate than the one between Iraq and West Germany, but it is hardly more comforting. In fact, it is so discomfiting—it implies such a dismal forecast for America's occupation in Iraq over the next several years (for that matter, the next few decades)—that it's hard to imagine Bush would have made such a remark if he'd understood its full implications.
It is true, as Bush noted, that the Filipinos endured 300 years of Spanish rule and that they achieved independence in 1946. But Spain ended its rule in 1898. What happened during the 48-year unmentioned interregnum? Nothing pleasant, if the point of the inquiry is to seek parallels with Iraq after Saddam.
The Spanish empire ceded the Philippines to U.S. control in 1898 after losing that "splendid little war" in the Caribbean. The American military then invaded the Philippines and took over the capital, Manila, in fairly short order. Then, as now, the troubles began. Here's how Max Boot described the ensuing conflict in his book The Savage Wars of Peace: "hough successive U.S. generals proclaimed victory at hand, American soldiers kept dying in ambushes, telegraph lines kept getting cut, and army convoys kept getting attacked."

Over the next three and a half years, until July 1902, when the Filipino guerrillas were finally subdued, the U.S. Army lost 4,234 soldiers. Another 2,818 were wounded. (By the Army's own estimate, 69,000 Filipino combatants were killed, along with nearly 200,000 civilians.) The American war effort was marked by much burning, pillaging, and torturing, and the commanders finally achieved victory through a strategy of isolating the guerrillas. They did this by forcing the civilian population out of towns and into "protected zones"; able-bodied men found outside the zones without a pass were arrested or shot.

Snip…
The notion spread through popular culture. Rudyard Kipling's famous poem "The White Man's Burden" was subtitled, "The United States and the Philippine Islands."
More…
http://slate.msn.com/id/2090114/

[seventhson]

54. Nothing about your negativism...

can tke away the fact that MILLIONS of Americans agree in principle with the position that the troops should be brought home immediately.

No one who really cares about the failed Bush policies will be put off by these speeches.

The reality is that mainstream america and even the pentagon and cia is sick of Bush and his egocentric failures.

But the fact is also that it takes those with both courage and conviction to stand up to Bush and to speak out fearlessly.

These folks have their organizational agendas and an agenda that billions globally will agree on. They also have some many of us may disagree on.

But your negativity is so unproductive.

At LEAST there are poeople willing to stand up and be counted to exercise democracy and the right to assemble to protest.

The fact that most americans are NOT activists and rather have their mtv, dvd and suv than cspan is LOST on you.

You see the glass as not even half full.

It looks FULL to me.

My wife and daughter are in that crowd. They travelled all night to get there. THEY are the backbone of America.

Where are the Unions. Where are the democratic candidates? Where are the organized democrats???

No -- it takes those who are PASSIONATE to lead this march.

They are courageous and your comments are simply bourgeois grumbling, it seems to me.

[Neecy]

70. I'd guess.....

Where are the Unions. Where are the democratic candidates? Where are the organized democrats???

...that no democratic candidate would get within 500 yards of this. Notice that there isn't a single member of congress at this march?

I don't disagree with most of the speakers, but I do recognize that much of this is completely out of step with the mainstream. Much of it, to be honest, is shrill anti-Americanism voiced by those who aren't Americans (Cubans, Nicaraguans, Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians, et al). This doesn't go over big in congressional districts. The Republicans would have a field day with the footage - especially the militant solidarity with the Iraqi resistance movement, which is currently killing our soldiers. And yes, I understand the distinction, but I doubt that middle America would.

[Imajika]

72. seventhson

"But your negativity is so unproductive."

I'm sorry you don't like my negativism, but I call em' as I see em'.

"You see the glass as not even half full."

This is true. I like to think I am realist, but I probably am more of a pessimist than anything.

"It looks FULL to me."

Disagree here. I think the anti-war movement is floundering and will probably never garner majority support.

My concern is that it will have the total support of the most active primary voters in the Democratic party, and we will wind up with a bonified anti-war candidate, with stances that will be impossible to moderate, taking on Bush so soon after 9-11. I personally think that well could spell total defeat for us.

I suspect that while the American public may be grumbling about Iraq now, when it comes election day a majority of Americans will err on the side of a candidate being too aggressive in taking on perceived bad guys, rather than one whose stands are more geared towards understanding and multilateralism. In a post 9-11 world, my feeling is that national security will be the defining issue, even when average people tell pollsters it is the economy they most worry about. If our candidate appears in any way weak and or unwilling to use force against "enemies", I think Americans will stick with Bush.

Saying that, if the anti-war in Iraq message were to really catch on, with frequent and growing demonstrations that focused ONLY on Iraq and crowds of average Americans with no political axe to grind in attendence, then the political situation would be different. I just don't see that happening unless we suffer several "Beirut" style attacks in Iraq, and organizers of these protests get smarter about how they present the movement.

Imajika

[dmr]

42. I saw a close up shot of an old co-worker of mine from Miami!

A pharmacist in the reserve, and always on the right wing side of things. I am totally flabergasted, impressed and elated to see him and his wife at this rally! Miracles can and do happen!

[matcom]

44. RAMSEY UP NOW

LOVED his speech last year!

:bounce:

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Clark said

Bush will start another war if he thinks it will win him the election! Holy Cow!

Bush is the greatest threat to our peace and security! He's GREAT!

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Impeach Bush! Impeach Bush!

I WISH!

[La_Serpiente]

49. I am happy that they are talking about Cuba

The extremists have really gone too far.

Does anyone know how the marieletos feel about the extremists or are they the extremists themselves?

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. What happened???

He threw out T-Shirts and.....?????? Why was he not going to be allowed to speak? I'm so confused! Was he not scheduled to speak? Or what? He's Viggo Mortensen...actor.

[RebelOne]

65. I guess he wasn't allowed to do that.

But he did speak.

[ShaneGR]

67. I think this guy just called for some sort of peace Jihad

He screamed for about 5 minutes and then sat down. He was like:


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Then he sat down.

[drfemoe]

94. that's

how I feel when I see that photo you post . over and over .. I'm really rather sick of it . but don't mind me .. just expressing ..

[goobergunch]

95. You can turn off sig lines by going to "Options",

clicking "Edit your preferences", and selecting "No" under "Display signatures?".

You can also turn off images at the same page by selecting "Yes" under "Hide avatars and other images?".

[La_Serpiente]

68. I find it amazing

that Condi and the gang uses parallels of nation building between Germany and Japan to Iraq.

Sure, the US left their economies in tact, but they had to kill thousands of people in the process. This also occured in the Phillipines.

When Bush said the US will repair Iraq like the Phillipines, my eyes went WIDE OPEN!!! I was like, "What the F#$k? Are you loco?"

This guy is a crazy wingnut. Seriously.

[ShaneGR]

71. Eh?

Sure, the US left their economies in tact, but they had to kill thousands of people in the process. This also occured in the Phillipines.

Nazis were aggressors in part 1.

Japanese were aggressors in part 2.

I find it equally amazing that you think Americans will somehow view WWII as a bad thing for America.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

75. Who was the aggressor in the Spanish-American War?

In the Philippines? Who was the aggressor? Who came damned close to genocide? Do they have the right to still be angry about that? You're a student of political science, if I'm not mistaken. You should be up on all this stuff. Tell me about it.

[goobergunch]

78. What does the Spanish-American War have to do with Iraq? (n/t)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

84. Plenty

George W Bush, in the Philippines last week, cited the Philippines as a model for what we want to do in Iraq. Yes, he really did. And since almost NO ONE seems to know about the damn-near genocide we committed there, well, they need to know. I doubt W even has a clue.

Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. And you can be sure that we're repeating the worst parts of our history.

Counter-question: I was responding to SGR talking about how we were the good guys to the Philippines in WW2. What, then, does WW2 have to do with Iraq?

Finally, the groups that put this rally together have the right to speak on whatever topics they wish to speak on, despite what you, me, or anyone else thinks about it.

Thanks.

[goobergunch]

86. Thanks for the information

As long as there's a nexus between the topic at hand and Iraq, it's okay with me.

I would agree that the groups that put the rally together have the right to select the speakers. However, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

89. Agreed

And I don't agree with everything that everyone said.

I guess I'm in an angry mood...if I directed any of that toward you, I apologize. We're on the same side. But I really and truly feel that America as we know it is being destroyed by these right-wingers, day by day. I'm angry about it, and I feel solidarity with all of those who are speaking.

And I am impatient with some of those who are so worried about what middle America will think of this. There's too much "massaging" the message, too much spin, too much pragmatism sometimes.

So I'm off to rally, off to try to make my voice heard, along with lots of others.

I bid you peace, and have a great day.

[La_Serpiente]

83. I'm not a student of political science

The Philipinos were fighting the US for decades. A lot of them. The US destroyed the landscape there and treated them as "dirty Asians", mainly because of their skin color.

Perhaps at the time they didn't want the US there. However, the US killed thousands of Philippinos in the process of reconstruction, even though they didn't want them there.

I'm sure the Philipinos respected the US for getting the Spanish out. However, just like the Iraquis, they probably want sovereignty themselves.

[La_Serpiente]

77. Could this be the same for Iraq?

Will they have to fight an enemy for a long time??? Will they have to kill thousands of people just like they did in the Phillipines?

The Philipinos didn't want them there. Could this be the same for the Iraquis? Possibly if their resources are exploited.

I'm trying to draw a parallel here.

If Halliburton and the rest of the gang are going to exploit Iraqui's oil, the IRaquis could get mad. Look at the Bolivians. They are getting pissed they won't see the results of the Natural Gas pipeline to Chile.

I'm not saying the reconstruction project during WW II were bad. I am just drawing a comparison that in post-war Japan and Germany, they had to kill hundreds, if not thousands of people.

[RebelOne]

76. Camera just showed the mounted police

Is there any head count of how many people are there? Looks like thousands.

[drdon326]

79. IS THIS THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT HAS BECOME??

Rappers?

mumia?

cuban solidarity?

israel bashing?

"f**k george bush"?

North korean solidarity??


i can feel mid america really warming up.

[goobergunch]

80. It's ANSWER

They're great at organizing. However, they also get to have their people speak.

:shrug:

[CWebster]

85. You mean shriek?

Yes, they are great at organizing but they are polarizing. No one needs to marginalize them, they marginalize themselves. I wish they would get a clue.

[CivilRightsNow]

110. Or maybe they could get them to NOT speak

That would be better. Atleast the message wouldnt be so diluted even this hardcore hippie liberal is turned off.

[tinanator]

112. hardcore as in fascism?

I so love it when those old softie liberals want nothing more than to silence others. Civilrightsnowforwho?

[CivilRightsNow]

116. Old?

Im 25.

I dont want to silence others. I simply wish the rally was what it was billed as. Not an Anti Israel and free mumia fest. Ive talked to a great deal of disillusioned people who returned from there after walking away from the speakers because they couldnt believe that they were wasting time listening to a diluted message when they could be out there marching, singing.. drum circling, etc.

This was a wet dream for freepers. Congrats.

There is a time for everything. And this was not the time for alot of this shit.

[tinanator]

117. you have a lot to learn

besides getting over yourself and a slight hypocrisy issue. You arent old enough to know what a hippy is, Im afraid.
Justice for all, buddy. and nobody deserves that more than Mumia.
If you can seperate Israel and Palestine from Anti-war peace issues, youre a clever SOB. Hate to say it, but its all one big ball of wax, and you cant fix a part of the problem and call it a day.
FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!FREE MUMIA!
und so weiter.

[CivilRightsNow]

119. Okey dokey, all knowing one

You are entitled to your opinions. I know my life and my roots. You have no idea of who I am or how I was raised or how I live my life. Evidently you dont even know the definition of what a hippie is.. here, let me help you: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hippie

I could give two shakes of a rat's ass about Mumia. Until we free America, I'll keep focusing on the BIG PICTURE. Not some insignificant part of it. He is one man. There are hundreds at Ginto Bay, thousands in Iraq. If you are so short sighted then perhaps you need to get some glasses.

If you cant seperate Israel and Palestine from Unemployment, Globalization, Corporatization and the trampling of our rights here at home, I dont consider you a clever anything.

We must fix OUR government and OUR Foriegn policy. Until we do that you can protest your ass off about the poor palestinians.. I love where that has gotten them.

[tinanator]

120. you have given more than enough info

its all about you, right? screw the other guys and gals, its what you need that matters. Best of luck, but all the luck in the world wont raise the Titanic.

one more thing, Einstein. Israel and Palestine ARE our foreign policy at work, and if the lies are to be believed, at the root of terrorist attacks like 9-11-01. The first clue is free. What you do with it is your own business.

[CivilRightsNow]

121. You should put down the crack pipe.

And get cohesive. It's what I need? Oh, I forget.. and the world needs Mumia to be freed more then the folks in Ginto. Yeah, okey.

Go back to your conspiracy theories. I bet you saw Israelis dancing on NYC rooftops too, eh?

They are part of the picture. Not the big picture. Duh.

Im done wasting my time on you.

[tinanator]

122. lucky me

I get the "crack pipe" racist commentary, AND the "Im done wasting my time on you" retort! Oh Happy Day! Oh my lucky stars and garters.
Thank you sir, may I have another gift of wit and wisdom, Albert?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

87. I feel it too

It feels great, doesn't it, having an outlet to express our First Amendment rights?

[goobergunch]

88. post deleted (n/t)

[CWebster]

81. WHAT WAS THAT?????

Did I just hear the Kucinich spokesperson just claim that none of the other Democratic candidates were represented at the rally?

I missed Sharpton's speech earlier but I understand he was there...Maybe Sharpton should look for someone to whine at since he was actually there---and Kucinich?

[ShaneGR]

99. Thank god there wasn't any Dem candidates there (other than Al)

You know its extreme when Kucinich doesn't show up to speak.

[CivilRightsNow]

111. True.

If I was a democratic nominee, I wouldnt set foot anywhere near this.

Unless of course, I was Al Sharpton. He is so over the top most of the time that this was pretty mellow for him.

He actually gave a good speech.

[RebelOne]

90. This march is awesome

from children to senior citizens. How will the bush administration ignore this?

[Imajika]

100. That's funny

"from children to senior citizens. How will the bush administration ignore this?"

Ha! Easily. Do you actually think they pay even the slightest bit of attention to these rallies?

They will have no problem ignoring this.

Actually, from the speeches I heard today, they probably wish more Americans watched it. Middle America would not support the positions of most of the speakers I saw. I'd bet the Bush administration and their neo-con allies would love to have the average American associate anti-war Americans with International ANSWER. There is virtually nothing ANSWER has to say that mainstream US citizens would support. The whole demonstration makes the anti-war movement look bad.

Imajika

[livinontheedge]

101. GOP prays for demonstrations just like this.

Talk about giving help to the enemy . . . Karl Rove could not have scripted a better event to convince middle americans that the anti-war movement is being driven by a bunch of hysterical hippy appeasers.

We need our most credible people, like General Clark, to push our anti-war case to sway public opinion . . . not a bunch of emotional extremists. What is with all that anti-Israel bullshit, anyway???? That will really help us win more Jewish voters in Florida, won't it?

[Q]

102. Yeah...we need all the...

...white middle class consumer clones to have a rally. What's that you say? They're busy watching teevee and drinking another six pack?

- The thousands of people at this rally represent all the voices the American media does their best to ignore while they promote fascist George's insane policies while the Democrats SIT ON THEIR ASSES and do nothing about it.

- Big deal...so some in the permanent Democratic minority don't like all those brown and black faces talking about issues not relevant to THEM. But these issues ARE relevant to many around the world...those countries we invade and oppress and exploit.

- The NeoDems don't have a clue.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

104. livinontheedge seems you know the "enemy" agenda quite well...and where

to spread their talking points of fear....

[tinanator]

114. some values

you seem to desire a kowtowing, vote stealing, softspoken do nothing approach. Hmmm, Karl Rove wouldnt like that, would he?
Clark's credible? What, exactly, is YOUR anti-war case? The ones Im familiar with dont seem to jibe with your strategery.

[Dover]

91. D.C. Schedule of Protests and Events (Indymedia)

October 25 Schedule of Protests and Events

INDYMEDIA - http://dc.indymedia.org/

9am-12noon: Great Black Peace March & Mini Festival - Malcolm X Park (Meridian Hill)
10:30am: Radical/Syndicalist Labor - Ellipse, under Black Cat banner
11am: Washington DC Teacher Union - new Convention Center
11am: "Peace for Palestine" Feeder March - Farragut Square (K & Connecticut, NW)

11am: Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation Feeder March - Farragut Square, 17th & K, NW
11am: United for Peace & Justice/ANSWER Rally & March - Washington Monument, 17th & Constitution
11:30am: Anti-Capitalist Call to Action! - 7th & P st, NW
11:30am: Self-Determination for DC and Iraq! Percussion Protest and Feeder March - Euclid & 15th St corner of Malcolm X Park (Meridian Hill Park)
12noon: Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender Straight Allies Rally for Peace - 15th and Constitution
12:30pm: Art Bloc, Harmonicas Against the War, Poets Against War Convergence - 17th & Constitution, Ellipse side
12:30ish pm: Bike Bloc in Support of Mass March - Dupont Circle
4-9pm: The Washington Conference on Civil Liberties in America - UDC, Main Auditorium Bldg 46 West, Connecticut Ave & Van Ness St., NW
6pm: International Solidarity Movement Benefit Show #2 - St. Aloysious Church, 19 Eye St NW at North Capitol (Union Station metro)
8pm: radio cpr cabaret - La Casa, 3166 Mt. Pleasant St. NW

Media Kit for Out-of-town Journalists | Listen to WPFW Live | Watch on C-span | SFC IMC
Supporting the IMC
2nd Anniversary of Patriot Act | "Anti-Terrorism" and Civil Liberties

[Dover]

92. San Francisco Indymedia homepage link

http://sf.indymedia.org/

Has anybody reported in from San Francisco yet?

[JohnKleeb]

113. LiberalHistorian and her son were shown I know for fact

Now not sure about me and the others, but man oh man were those raging grannies funny. "panser"