So what political label do you use to describe yourself ?

[RagingInMiami]

Poll question: So what political label do you use to describe yourself ?

Me, I'm a liberal before anything. Then I'm a progressive.

I'm also a democrat because I've been registered with that party since I turned 18, but I would never rule out voting for a third progressive party, which is why I don't automatically label myself a dem.

[shenmue]

1. I almost said progressive

Then I picked lib. It's the one I use more often.

[Raine]

2. Democratic first

then maybe a progressive but I don't like to label myself cause I'm all over the map on stuff.

[Blue_In_AK]

3. Hi, Raging...

Merry Christmas to you. I think I'd call myself a progressive...or maybe Utopian. I always have this vision of how things SHOULD be, and how wonderful the world would be if people would just put aside their differences and work for the advancement of the whole human race -- after all, we are all in this together -- but I suppose that will never happen. If we haven't gotten it right after a million years of evolution, maybe we never will.

[RagingInMiami]

5. Hi Blue

Merry Christmas to you too. I don't think we will ever have a utopian society because everybody's definition of utopia is different, which is when the fighting starts.

[bluerum]

4. You will have to pry my liberal label from my cold dead hands. n/t

[Zensea]

6. Pataphysicist

or Abomunist or surrealist
:)

[laststeamtrain]

8. Abomunist Bob Kaufman was a great (but difficult) man n/t

[Zensea]

21. & a great poet as well

Some of my favorite lines of poetry were written or spoken by him.
Such a natural gift for deep image
for example -- "I put my eyes on a diet, my tears are gaining too much weight."

[laststeamtrain]

7. Social Democrat or more truly democratic socialist

'Mixed' economy (part capitalist, mostly socialist), cradle-to-grave social safety net, rights to all basic human needs without the mediation of parasitic Capitalist profit motive.
The several hundred households with annual incomes in excess of 200 million dollars should be 'soaked'.
Wealth comes from labor, not sitting poolside waiting for a dividend check.
It seems to me people who do important work in science and the arts would do what they do whether there's great profit in it or not.

[Paulie]

78. Amen!

[sweetheart]

9. human being

spits, messy, farts, eats, sweats, and scratches its skin cells off in
clouds after a shit. What bloom would have enjoyed a long hot crap on
that famous warm irish morning without any periods or letup except
the long famours tirade of the man indeed. messy.

[billbuckhead]

10. I'm a small (d) democrat who leans left on most issues

I'm frustrated by how our system skews so pro corporate. I wished we had more choices.

[MadisonProgressive]

18. I'll take your word for it!

:scared:

[kliljedahl]

23. That's a WHOLE LOT more information than I needed

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[sweetheart]

45. ulysses

Bloom's famous dump, and my feeble attempt
to reflect it drew ire in its day, and even today,
no matter the cadence, the onomatopea, it is "too
much info" that. ;-)

[nevergiveup]

11. I am a moderate who leans left

I am liberal on most things but there are a few issues where I am a centrist.

[...of J.Temperance]

60. I'm a Centrist-Moderate...I voted for the label Democrat

I'm liberal on the majority of social issues and I'm conservative on a number of economic issues.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. Walking Dem Man. nt.

[mrcheerful]

13. I'm swiss until 2008 at the earliest.

[sweetheart]

56. I thought about this

If someone is an american, then they are not swiss.
And are you REALLY swiss? Is it just flogging a passport?
Is it leaving the united states to find franchise? Is that
the implied statement, that amongst other peaceful nations,
though you speak in jest, beneath it are layered several
important frames.

There is the frame that you "can" change nationality, that
really, the country of your birth, though you may not live
there, "remains" your country... or does it?

There is the frame of losing your right to nationality, where
you are not represented by any government on earth, that to
claim switzerland, like a vicarious third party that represents
ones' politics.

So, say you had a swiss passport, and you were in new york.
Does that make you swiss, if you are not resident in switzerland?
So if citizenship is not about residency, then it is a virtual
cult, where each of us, chooses to endorse a virtual cultic religion
online, our "nationality". But what if there is no place on earth
with my politics? What if there is no franchise to flee to, no
"swotzerland"?

Then we are contained in pens, branded like jews, prepared for
judgement, rehabilitation and the ovens. Or, perhaps, we are
citizens of where our feet vote, and in that sense, the vicarious
right to citizenship is a falsity, a new concept new of an age
100 years since the invention of the passport. Previously,
residency and nationality were much more closely equated, and
perhaps wisely. But that would entail franchise, something
that a slave system does not allow, and if the world does not
vent the steam, the pressure cooker would boil over in to
civil war 2... but good the canadian and mexican borders are
open so that people can get out during this corporate tyrranny.

[mrcheerful]

63. None of the above

I'm swiss simply so I don't have to take credit for GW bing the embarrassment of my country. I'm embarrassed to death at what shrub and the neo cons have done to america. Home of the free and land of the brave? We are now the home of the intolerant and the land of the greedy.

[sweetheart]

84. honestly

Its not that shrub has done anything different than any other president,
its just that he has all the subtlety of a matador's drugged bull.

The united states has, under the excuse of spreading wealth and freedom and
democracy... spread a corporate imperialism for 100 years the very least,
where corporate citizens call up the armed forces at will, and the gold has
worn off over the last century, that underneath we realize taht this bare bonzes
capittalizm is gotta goe, its bad sheeiit.

But what is to be done, sigh, six billions is a lotta people, and the future of
every city is mexico shity. smog filled dung heap of 20 millions.

And then the future really is like in soylent green. But its always been the
land of the greedy, from the outset, and all the flag drapery is glorified self
interest, manifest desiny, royal perogative, WMD's, what ever.

[mtnsnake]

14. I use both Liberal & Democrat, but I chose Liberal. Just the mood I'm in

tonight after that other thread that suggests we should drop the word "liberal".

[Warpy]

15. Pinko

since I don't believe anything but a mixed socialist and capitalist economy can be both humane and competitive.

[MadisonProgressive]

16. In spite of my user name

I usually refer to myself as liberal. A lot of people seem to have a deer in the headlights look when you say you're a progressive.

[Mnemosyne]

17. I'm a liberal progressive, but

some call me a commie.
Identity crisis time! :evilgrin:

Peace in the new year!
V

[OffWithTheirHeads]

19. Flaming liberal was not a choice

so. I picked socialist. Suffice it to say that my family refers to me as "comrade"

[Maat]

34. Now THAT is funny!

Are you joking, or do they really?

:rofl:

I think that someone in your family has a sense of humor.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

73. Yeah, they really do.

All of em.

[Maat]

81. HeeHee.

:D

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. I've Always Said I'm Just Me. At the end of the day that's all I am.

I am a progressive, liberal, democrat not because of labels, cliques, or grouping, I am those things by default because when I explore my ideals, morals, values and personal perspective 99% of it falls into that category, so by default that's what I am.

But at the end of the day I'm just little old me. No labels, no sworn allegiance, just simply someone who wants the world to be more at peace, the needy helped out, healthcare consistent, racism abolished, unfair practices done away with, and a world in which honor and integrity rule :)

Ok ok, I'm a progressive liberal democrat :)

[Ksec]

22. Im a Labor Liberal

Im strong on workers rights and I hate corporate whores.

[kliljedahl]

67. Must not like the DLC much then

That's why I don't



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Eric J in MN]

24. I'm a liberal who made a 4 minute video titled "Liberal Values..."

..American Values."

http://www.moveleft.com/liberal_values_american_values.html

[kliljedahl]

25. Is this in response to the thread

by that poor guy that just got tombstoned? I can't figure out why that happened. I thought it was a good post.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Maat]

26. Was that the guy who started a thread on dropping the word, 'liberal'?

Hmmm ... tombstoned, huh?

[kliljedahl]

27. Yeah he was, I can't figure out why.

Admittedly I haven't read the thread clear through though.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[RagingInMiami]

28. you need to read through the whole thread to get the gist of it

[kliljedahl]

29. I've got it bookmarked for later, it was so damn long & I got there late

I'll finish it tomorrow



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[Maat]

30. Dang!

Do you have a link to the thread? I lost track of it.

[RagingInMiami]

31. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5687226

[Maat]

32. Thanks ... I could be studying ..

or talking with my family ... but this is FAR more important.

[Maat]

33. Thanks.

I, too, only read the first posts.

And, now that I look at it, I did not even see the objectionable parts of his initial post; I breezed by them, I guess.

And I'm horrible at spotting trolls.

What was he up to anyway? Doesn't he have anything better to do on Christmas?

On edit - I voted for 'progressive,' although the real answer is that I proudly wear both the 'liberal' and 'progressive' labels.

I agree with the poster who said, "I'm a liberal progressive Democrat,' or something like that.

Actually, I'm a 'progressive liberal Democrat' (I think).

Hmmm ... anyway, I'm a proud liberal to anyone who asks about it.

[uppityperson]

79. For me he lost it when he compared "Liberal" to "nigger"

then told me that it was condescending to stand up for blacks since they were capable of complaining on their own, after I said it was a poor comparison. Sort of deteriorated after that.

[kliljedahl]

82. I hadn't read that far when I posted, the OP

hadn't even been tombstoned yet. I thought that part of the OP was pretty stupid when I first read it, but overall I agreed with him. I still can't understand why the tombstone & why it took 236 posts to declare it flamebait. Any thoughts?



Keith’s Barbeque Central

[uppityperson]

83. email the moderators and ask them

happy today!

[PWRinNY]

35. George Washington was a liberal

"As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality." - George Washington

It's time we remind others that our Forefathers had a vision of a LIBERAL America. Rather than changing the word liberal to something else, maybe we should call a snake a snake - and point to the fact that the so-called Republicans aren't even conservative - they're backward. Liberal is a good thing, and it's time we remind everyone of that. Backward Neocons (otherwise known to them as Conservatives), on the other hand, well that's not something I'd ever want to be, and my guess is that the greater majority of Americans don't want to be called that either.

[RagingInMiami]

36. Welcome to DU

And I agree with what you say.

[PWRinNY]

77. Thank you RagingInMiami

:) Nice to be here!

[Tactical Progressive]

42. That is a 200-year old meme

Back at the creation of this country democratic liberties was a new concept. The term doesn't have anywhere near that resonance now. It's one thing to hitch your rhetorical wagon to 'liberty' back in 1790; it's a completely different thing when you are still trying to play on that meme two-hundred years later.

Liberty isn't now what it was when we broke free of the king. It isn't the defining concept behind the creation of a new type of country; it isn't democratic freedom from a king's control any more. You'll have a hard time telling people, who can drive anywhere in their car that they want to go and buy nearly whatever they want and come home and watch nearly anything that they want on TV or the internet, that they need 'freedom'. Freedom as a political concept today means freedom from societal responsibility as often as not. It's a libertarian meme in today's world.

Since then we've developed industrial societies, corporate hegemonies and financial empires, and what leftists have been doing in that time, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, which saw the rise of unbridled capitalism and its attendant economic vulgarity, was to CONTROL the rampant EXCESSES of liberty. To reign in the corrupting control of monopolies. To thwart the freedom to pollute to your heart's, and your bank account's, content. To limit the corrosive power of financial concentration and the destructive effects of laissez-faire economics. It is Republicans now, who want the freedom to ignore environmental, health and safety standards. To eliminate any obligation to the general well-being. To force the most popular religion down everyone's throat. And on and on. To do whatever those with power want to do to those without.

Times have changed and with them meanings have changed. History and industry have changed them. In the broad picture now, Conservatives want the freedom to rape and pillage at will, without restraint. That's what underlies almost everything we talk about in progressive circles. If anybody wants 'liberty' in the modern world, it is hegemons wanting it from society. If anyone wants to restrict the freedom of the powerful to control our lives, it is us.

Sure, liberty is still important, and it isn't fully realized. Women and minorities still get the short shrift, though I hesitate to call that a 'liberty' issue. True, gays don't have the freedom to marry, and marijuana smokers still get put in prison. Civil liberties are still important, no doubt, but it isn't the overriding, defining issue of progressive politics; it is ONE of our concerns, and again, not allowing the powerful the freedom to run roughshod over everyone else is closer to the defining sentiment of the left.

'Progressive' is a much, much broader term than 'liberal'. In fact, it encompasses that concept. It is additionally a much more accurate word to describe our politics and our beliefs. It's a better word just as words go, and finally it is nearly impossible to rhetorically demonize progress as I said in the other thread.


As an aside, I can't believe the moderators locked that other thread as flamebait. Besides agreeing with the original poster, the topic itself was certainly worthy of discussion, agree or not. They screwed up. There used to be a forum about the forums here, but I don't see it any more. Maybe it was too much effort to maintain. Whatever, I hope they don't lock this thread for that reason. It's not an unimportant point, what we call ourselves, and certainly more pertinent than alot of what we typically discuss around here. Bad move moderators. Please don't do it again. And you can dig up that tombstone while you're at it - the kid didn't seem like an infiltrator to me.

[RagingInMiami]

44. I think the other poster was an obvious troll

With obvious troll talking points.

[Tactical Progressive]

46. Based on what?

I read his op and about halfway through the thread and saw nothing trollish.

[RagingInMiami]

50. Not in the OP

But his response to me when I said he was being offensive to black people on DU by comparing the word "liberal" to the word "nigger". This is what he said.

"If any blacks were offended, they can take it up with me themselves
Edited on Sun Dec-25-05 09:03 PM by ProgressAlwaysWins
They don't need you to be a mouthpiece for them. I think it's pretty condescending that you feel YOU need to speak for them, like they can't do it themselves."

I've argued with enough right-wingers in my life to know that they always come up with the same talking points when it comes to race. Their main criticism about liberals or progressives or whatever you want to call us is that we "patronize" black people when we stand up for civil rights, if we don't happen to be be black ourselves.

Here is another post:

"If you got pissed off at my comment, then it's because you took it in the wrong manner. I stated plain and simple that I was using the word in a non-racist context, and if you still took it to be racist, then that's YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM. You might not be aware of this, but it IS possible to use a racist word in a hypothetical, non-racist context. And, as I said, if my comment (erroneously) offended any African-American people, then they are perfectly capable of confronting me themselves and telling me that. In fact, one did, and I responded by clarifing the tone of my earlier statement. I find it more offensive that YOU think you need to have a patronizing attitude toward any blacks that MIGHT have been offended, as if they need somebody else to get all righteous in their defense. I'm assuming you're not black, seeing as you would have told me if you were by this point. Blacks (or any other group of people which you do not belong to, for that matter) do not need you to step in and defend them from things that might offend them. They're adults, and they can do it for themselves. To think otherwise is insulting them far more than I ever did.

Guess what? Your inflammatory posts towards me were deleted, as I had predicted they would be. So, you WERE in the wrong. Isn't it funny how a noob like me can have a better understanding of the rules of the site than a supposedly elite experienced user such as yourself? You've got a pretty big ego there. I've played by the rules all along and haven't done anything to warrant this kind of abuse. Either disagree with me in a civil, respectful manner or piss off."


Fuck that guy, he was a fucking asshole. Good riddance.

[Tactical Progressive]

54. Oh, I see

In reading back over the thread I don't think he meant his remarks to be racist, but they sometimes are even when not intended as such, or mysogynst or sexist or whatever. It can be touchy stuff when somebody calls you a racist or a sexist.

But I agree with you that he had no right to tell you that you couldn't make that point. I happen to like it when whites defend minorities, men defend women's rights, straights stick up for gay rights, the rich support the social safety net, christians defend atheists, etc. It gives me a sense of well-being that, as progressives or liberals, we don't just support our own situations and comfort zones, as pretty much all right-wingers do.

But that doesn't appear to be why the thread was closed. The moderator message indicated that the thread was locked because the subject was flamebait. Which I disagree with.

[nofurylike]

53. based on that we should EVER EVER define ourselves based on

whether repukes respect it or not.

coulter says...?!!?! :puke:

from that OP:
>I am SICK of hearing that harpy Coulter and that crackhead Limbaugh rant about "liberals are this, liberals are that". I am SICK of Republicans who think I'm an asshole calling me a liberal....
>

nothing awry there?

can you imagine us caring whether repukes think we're assholes?

i am a lesbian. should i skulk away and use a more closetty title so i don't get made all shame-face by those foul-mouthed filthy-minded hate-spewers?

i'm proud that i get so under their skin that they resort to such juvenile slop.

what should we call ourselves that repukes WOULDN'T call pukey names? well, "simpering cowards," for one.

right, let's just run away and act like we're as pitiful as they - including that poster - want to make us feel???

and you, please read the rules. you going at the moderators on the forum is against the rules. period.


sheesh

[Tactical Progressive]

Those two arguments conflict

How can changing names be running away, if they're going to call us names anyway?

I've simply never liked the term liberal, long before I saw it as being any kind of smear, which it has become, whether you like it or not. If it was a good word I'd just say stick with it. But it's a crappy word and non-descriptive to boot.

'Progressive' is simply a much better description, and more insightful to what we are. I haven't run away from liberal so much as move towards progressive. I see it as a better label in every single respect, from ideology to practicality. It's not even close.

I understand the sense of wanting to 'hold your ground'. It almost makes me not want to change, but not enough to not want to change to progressive which I see as far, far better terminology. And that's a one-time deal as far as I'm concerned. They can derogate 'progressive' all they want.



I looked for like five minutes up and down DU for the moderator policy discussion threads. Apparently they no longer exist. Since this thread was pretty much a sideways extension of the last thread, which was closed for no valid reason that I can see, it seemed like the best place to make the point, especially since if that thread was locked down as purported flamebait based on the "subject", which is essentially the same as this thread, then that means this thread is liable to be locked for the same reason. And I don't think it should be.

So sheesh yourself.

[nofurylike]

75. that is the point, why would cons' view of us ever cause us to change

our definitions of ourselves?
you were discussing the other poster, not your reasons for not using the title liberal for yourself. you could not see what was trolling about that other thread.


from the rules:

"Do not post messages attacking the moderators or administrators.

Do not publicly accuse the moderators or administrators of bias."

thank you


peace

[newyawker99]

64. Hi PWRin NY!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[PWRinNY]

76. Thanks newyawker99!

[Jamison]

37. Communist

Economically speaking.

[Selatius]

38. Libertarian Socialist (aka anarcho-socialist, anarchist, or liberal soc.)

I'm a registered as a Democrat, but I'm not too happy with Democrats with the corporate cash flowing around politics nowadays.

[proud patriot]

39. Liberal

[NMMNG]

40. Liberal

I'm a registered Democrat as of several months ago (previously "no party affiliation", though I never voted Republican). However I generally describe myself as a Liberal. I don't give a darn about the negative connotations ascribed to the term, as I consider the term "conservative" to be quite negative in return.

[BlueIris]

41. Liberal, goddamnit.

And proud. I won't call myself a Progressive unless I'm dealing with people who insist on using that term because it's more "inclusive." Then it's a "when in Rome" thing. But I don't like it. There's nothing wrong with 'liberal.' Nothing at all.

[RagingInMiami]

43. It's interesting that only ten percent of 136 voters

Refer to themselves mainly as democrats. I'm sure it's a reaction to the weak democrats we've been experiencing these last few years.

[Hissyspit]

47. I consider myself a secular humanist and consider that a political label

because ultimately, every value system is political. But I clicked on Liberal. FREEDOM OF THOUGHT.

[TheBaldyMan]

48. Anarcho-Syndicalist for donkey's years

My favourite wind-up to right-wingers (and union members) is explaining anarcho-syndicalist philospophy thus:

1/Unions should run the country
2/Members should run the unions

It usually results in hands being thrown up in horror and cries of "But that would be anarchy!"

[TheBaldyMan]

49. Anarcho-Syndicalist for donkey's years

My favourite wind-up to right-wingers (and union members) is explaining anarcho-syndicalist philospophy thus:

1/Unions should run the country
2/Members should run the unions

It usually results in hands being thrown up in horror and cries of "But that would be anarchy!"

[xultar]

51. Sexy as hell.

[RagingInMiami]

52. Any pictures?

[Justice Is Comin]

55. Sagittarius.

[leftchick]

57. George and I are PROUD LIBERALS.

:loveya:

[...of J.Temperance]

58. Darn...he's even sexier with a beard

:loveya:

[justabob]

59. other - populist nt

[meganmonkey]

61. Other: Independent

Labels have too much baggage. While I am liberal and progressive as I define those terms, there are too many assumptions that go along with that so I am independent first.

[baldguy]

62. Bleeding-heart Liberal

Just like Jesus

[expatriot]

65. a short history of my political leanings....

1994 - summer of 1996: freeper (was young and stupid, age 17-18.5 -- enamored by the "romance" of the militia movement (prior to the OKC bombing - the OKC bombing made me reconsider my loyalties - even though I did submit an column to my school newspaper that contained the line "Having a daycare center in the federal building is as irresponsible as having had a daycare center on the USS Arizona. Tensions have been increasing in the western states and the federal government should have had made precautions for such an attack." Needless to say, the column never saw print and I got a talking to.) My political conscious was very developmentally delayed, it was a fetus. - I was torn between voting for Buchanan or Keyes in the Iowa Republican caucus of 1996 -ended up voting for Keyes even though I knew I was an atheist at the time)
summer of 1996: transition time (first time I learned real value of internet and had unimpeded internet access via college computer lab...)
fall of 1996: Green (voted for Nader)
spring 97 - summer 98: global democrat (radical technocrat) (on edit: notice how I went from the fearing black helicopters to wishing they were here in less than a year.)
autumn 98 - spring 00: radical socialist with varying dogmatic loyalties
spring 00 - autumn 00: Green with socialist sympathies (voted for Nader again).
winter 01 - summer 02: reluctant Democrat
autumn 02 - present: yellow-dog liberal/progressive Democrat/ fight like hell for the lesser of two evils.

[LWolf]

66. Other.

I am a liberal:

1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

I am a progressive:

. 1. Moving forward; advancing.
2. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
3. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.
4. Of or relating to progressive education: a progressive school.
5. Increasing in rate as the taxable amount increases: a progressive income tax.
6. A person who actively favors or strives for progress toward better conditions, as in society or government.

I am independent:
1. Not governed by a outside power; self-governing.
2. Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant: an independent mind.
3. Not determined or influenced by someone or something else.
4. Affiliated with or loyal to no one political party or organization.
5. Not dependent on or affiliated with a larger or controlling entity.

While I'm a registered Democrat, my loyalty goes as far as the party does in word and deed to actualize liberal/progressive goals. The issues are always primary, and party secondary, with me.

[riderinthestorm]

68. Raging liberal tree hugging lefty

Those are the exact words I use when describing myself to virtually anyone who inquires about political labels.

Then I follow that up with the classic line: "if you aren't outraged, you aren't paying attention" in order to explain the "raging" part of my definition.

[il_lilac]

69. made me think- thanks

liberal is how I refer to myself although I believe progressive would get less negative response

[liberalnurse]

70. I call myself a Constitutional Democrat.

I didn't vote in the given poll since "other" was not an option.

[The Stranger]

71. Neo-Progressive

Or has that already been taken?

[hollowdweller]

72. Socialist Libertarian

I believe in maximum personal freedom and privacy but that the gov't should protect pensions, we should have healthcare.

[MissMarple]

74. If you support the Constitution, you are a liberal.

Beyond that, I'm progressive.

[meow2u3]

80. Populist