A little note from DU admin Skinner y'all should read...

WilliamPitt

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Mon Dec-12-05 01:45 PM
Original message

A little note from DU admin Skinner y'all should read...

...which appeared here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4866571&mesg_id=4869867

Skinner sez:

The more things change, the more Democratic Underground stays the same. Democratic Underground is not getting dumber or ruder or flamier or kookier or whatever. Democratic Underground is getting bigger.

All of the complaints in this thread are exactly the same complaints we have heard -- literally since day one:

There are too many trolls.
People flame too much.
All the good people are leaving.
We're not as intelligent as we used to be.
There's too much fighting.
There's too much name-calling.
There are too many kooks.
There is too much censorship.
I miss the old days.
There is too much Dem bashing.
There is too much lockstep Dem boot-licking.
Something has changed.
Etc, etc, etc.

I appreciate the fact that people care about Democratic Underground. And anything that will make all of our members think about their behavior and try to be positive DU citizens is a good thing. So, maybe, this thread might have a modest positive effect.

But I have to emphatically disagree with the underlying assumption of this thread, and every other thread like it: That there existed a time in the past when Democratic Underground was significantly "better" in any of these respects than it is now. That's just wrong.

There never was a DU Golden Age. Since the very first day of its existence, this place has always been filled with smart people and stupid people. Polite people and rude people. Oversensitive whiners and over-offensive haters. Group hugs and circular firing squads. Insightful analysis and kooky conspiracy theories.

All the good people have been leaving since January of 2001. And we keep getting new good people to fill their place. There is a natural ebb and flow, a cyclical nature to this place. People come and go. Problems flare up and fizzle out. DU is great when there's lots of news because we've all got a common purpose. It's usually a cesspool of flaming when there's no news, or when Dems are getting our asses kicked in the news, because our sense of common purpose is lost.

And through it all, people long for the mythical DU Golden Age, when the people were nicer and smarter, and there were hardly any trolls or flaming. LOL.

This place had basically no rules at all for the first year-and-a-half of its existence. You could call someone a "flaming mother-fucking asshole" and you wouldn't get your post deleted. We had flame wars all the time, barn-burners that were *way* uglier than the tea-parties we have now. You could post any ridiculous thing you wanted, and we'd let you do it. And that was perfectly fine back when the website was smaller. But the bigger it gets, the more we have to institute rules and enforcement to smooth out the rough edges. It sucks I know, but it seems to happen on just about every discussion forum.

The ratio of crap-to-quality on Democratic Underground is no worse than it ever was, and in many respects it is much better. But the absolute amount of crap is larger -- just like the absolute amount of quality is larger -- because the community is larger.

Here's why I think people will always believe the myth that there once was a DU Golden Age: 1) Because people are just like that, and always think "the grass is greener." And 2) because there is a natural change to perceptions after you spend time here. Allow me to explain.

When you first find Democratic Underground, the reaction is inevitably something like: "HALLELUJAH! I have found a community of like-minded people!" DU seems like a massive buffet of progressive opinion. You are so thrilled by all the good stuff here, you are so thrilled to have found a place unlike any other, that you can't help but feel good about it. It's that place you've been looking for all along. But spend enough time here, and that sense of novelty, of wonderment, of excitement will inevitably fade. You slowly realize that there are both smart people and dumb people here. You slowly realize that there are both nice people and rude people here. Your somewhat naive belief that building up your post count would buy you respect from everyone else turns out to be mistaken. You start to identify with the "who the hell are all these newbies?" crowd, and stop identifying with the newbies. You take the good for granted, and the bad just seems like an annoyance. And furthermore, when you try to lash out against the evil you perceive all around you, the moderators delete your posts. Democratic Underground inevitably loses some of its lustre. Some people get tired of all the bullcrap and leave. It's a normal process. But through it all, Democratic Underground doesn't change very much. Your perceptions change.

It is undeniable that DU is getting bigger, so there is more of the bad stuff. (But remember that there is also more of the good stuff, too.) It is undeniable that our rules are more stringent and there is more censorship than there used to be. (But remember that the point of the censorship -- AKA "moderating" -- is to get rid of the most disruptive stuff.) Overall, Democratic Underground has not changed that much. The percentage of postings that are stupid or rude is still roughly the same as it's always been. And the number of complaints and navel-gazing "what have we become?" threads about Democratic Underground itself stays relatively constant.

A word of advice for everyone reading this, which I'm sure nobody will take. The ignore feature is your friend. Use it. I wish I could.

Anyway, I've talked too long, and I'm sure nobody has even made it this far in my post. If you're still reading, you win a pony.

The good news is that we are always trying to come up with new ideas to encourage quality, and to help visitors separate the good stuff from the bad. We're working on some pretty cool changes right now. But I'll explain them in another thread sometime.