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Did you know that PNAC is Michael Moore's link of the week?

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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:06 AM
Original message
Did you know that PNAC is Michael Moore's link of the week?





Wednesday, Dec. 7th, 2005
Project for the New American Century


The process of creating tomorrow's dominant force "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." -- PNAC, September, 2000



http://michaelmoore.com/
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good on him!
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:07 AM by proud2Blib
It's time to educate the masses.
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The Masses do not go to M. Moore's site
I'm just sayin'
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Masses don't go until it pisses off Ideo-dudes enough to chat it up...
Moore is crazy like a Faux ;)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Well the freepers go there
so maybe he will reach a few of them with this link.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. The masses need educating! Yeah, MM! nt
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. People who talk about "the masses" and categorize other people into a
big glob of undifferentiated peons need educating.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kicking for LunaC to see.
:)
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. THANK YOU!
I guess my reputation for being the resident PNAC fanatic is well-established, lol! Thanks for the heads up.....off to write to Michael Moore now!
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kicking for LunaC to see
:)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great, we've only been posting about it for almost three years
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Better late than never!
With Helen Thomas and Michael Moore saying "PNAC" out loud, it's a signal that our forum grumblings and outrage have a chance to seep into the public consciousness and someday be the subject of water cooler discussions. Most times we political junkies are a step ahead of the rest of the pack but as long as they eventually catch up, no harm/no foul.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. If we had a free press, the masses would already know
Thanks, MM. Do I hear a documentary in the works??
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. "The masses" may or may not be familiar with PNAC but there is strong
evidence that MOST Americans never trusted the Bush Cartel on the Iraq war. For instance, 58% of Americans opposed the Iraq war before the invasion (Feb. 03). 58%! Of that 58%, about half opposed the war outright, and the other half would only approve if it were a UN peacekeeping mission--i.e., world consensus--not a preemptive war by Bush.

This was across the board in all polls. Nearly 60%. That number dipped only once, for the few weeks of the invasion (with US troops at max risk) then went right back up to nearly 60%, where it stayed throughout the election. It's about 70% today.

I've been following the issue polls and you'd be amazed at what they show. For instance, 63% of Americans oppose torture "under any circumstances." Despite all the fearmongering and warmongering, MOST Americans are sticking to their sense of ethics and lawfulness and their progressive values.

I have a theory that the impression that we all get that Americans are uninformed "sheeple" and/or war yahoos is completely wrong. It is an ILLUSION created by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies who are giving the rightwing a BIG TRUMPET with which to promulgate their views, way out of proportion to their numbers.

Some of these are corporate news monopoly polls, so they are ignoring the evidence of their own polls--which go under-reported and are rarely talked about or analyzed, and which they use just to figure out what rightwing tripe they have to put on TV and radio, and fill their newspapers with, in order to COUNTER the views of the great progressive American MAJORITY.

So, unless you have proof that "the masses" haven't read PNAC, I will assume nothing about it. Maybe they have. But even if these so-called "masses" have not, their native good sense kicked in and told them Bush was full of crap.

Americans are NOT warmongers or uninformed "sheeple," in my opinion. What Americans are is disempowered and demoralized, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISED.

I think Americans have been signaling frantically for some time that they disapprove of Bush and his Middle East war (and literally EVERY Bush policy, foreign and domestic--so the issue polls show!), but no one listens to them, and they have almost no representation in DC, and no fair representation of their views in the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. In the 2004 election, for instance, the evidence shows that Kerry won by about a 4% to 5% margin (and if he'd been antiwar, he'd have won by an even bigger margin), but the vote got Diebolded. Two rightwing Bushite corporations--Diebold and ES&S--counted all the votes using "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY software and firmware, with virtually no audit/recount capability, in the new electronic voting systems that were installed in 2002-2004, as a result of a $4 billion boondoggle from Congress (the wrongly named "Help America Vote Act"). (--should have been "Help American Corporations Steal the Vote Act.) The war profiteering corporate news monopolies then DOCTORED their exit polls (same day polls of people who had just voted), late on election day, on everybody's TV screens, to MATCH the "results" produced by Diebold's and ES&S's secret, proprietary programming, thus hiding strong evidence of a Kerry win. (Kerry won the real, un-doctored exit polls--it was later established.)

This transformation of the election system into a FRAUDULENT, non-transparent election system happened too fast--and way under the radar--for most Americans to catch up with it in time. I suspect that most Americans are relying on informal, word of mouth, SLOWER types of communication--and on the internet--for real information. They are "reading between the lines" of Bush propaganda in the news media, and not buying most of what is foisted upon them as news and opinion, but the electronic voting thing was SO under the radar, there wasn't time to get word of it, understand it and act to correct it. Now that they are finding out about it (and Bush getting "re-elected" made them suspicious), there are movements all over the country to reform the election system, but it's an open question whether or not this fascist coup that has seized power CAN be dislodged, given their control of the election system.* Stay tuned.


-------------------

Recently, in Ohio, four ELECTION REFORM initiatives were predicted to win by 60/40, but on election day LOST by 60/40--an audacious flipover of the vote. It appears that the machines and their masters are PREVENTING election reform--a chilling Orwellian twist.

See Bob Koehler's article on the Ohio initiatives:
http://www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?custid=67&catid=1824


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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. The "under privileged" are the first to notice
when the government does not see to the interests of the people.

"The masses" may not know most of the details, but many of them - regardless of political inclination - have long since come to the conclusion that politics stinks to high heaven.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. well, sadly
more and more of us are fitting that description. I've always said that evil needs to hit home somehow to be seen for what it is. As more and more of us are struggling, more and more will wake up and fight.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. Been trying to spread this around for a few years now
My friend, the NYTimes reader said: "You cannot trust the internet"
"BUT THAT"S THEIR SELF DESCRIPTION!!!!"
"Nah....."
And that was NOT a freeper. She opposed the war - it's just that if Ny Times didn't acknowledge it, it didn't exist.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. "You cannot trust the internet" is like saying "You cannot trust paper"
internet is just a medium, a carrier of information.

In the case of the PNAC website the source it PNAC, unless the website is a hoax. It isn't that hard to check out and verify the contact information on the website. Presumably PNAC also has an off-line presence - in fact the documents they produce can be used as reference.

Would your friend deny that the folks at PNAC ever wrote that letter to president Clinton, and deny they wrote "Rebuilding America's Defenses"?

A quick search shows that "Rebuilding America's Defenses" is referenced by amongst others, the BBC, The Guardian, The Telegraph, economist.com and New York Daily News."

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. The Baltimore Chronicle acknowledges PNAC's existence
as do a bunch of smaller-but-still-mainstream news outlets.

see google news

It may be worth it to pursue this for anyone who will probably be convinced "if only you had compelling evidence".
Probably the least you'll accomplish is that it's harder for your friend to deny.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Maybe if Kerry or Edwards would have mentioned its existence...
maybe if they had the balls and honesty of Charlie Rangle and a few others...but like on other subjects, they failed both the truth test, and they failed their constituents. I now know the corporate news are liars and cover-up vehicles, but I will forever resent Kerry for not bringing this up.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Wes Clark was talking about PNAC non-stop - part of why I supported him
I remember that - at least in the beginning - all it got him on the DU was the conclusion that...he was part of them (kinda like Krugman and Enron). Topic was on the table during the primaries .
As for Charlie Rangel - maybe that's why he was one of Clark's drafters too.
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RBHam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. Moore might finally be seeing the truth behind 9-11
Maybe, he read this...

Memo notes U.S. feared jet attack prior to 9/11
NBC: U.S. told Saudi Arabia bin Laden could strike with civilian plane

Dec. 9: More than three years before 9/11, U.S. officials warned Saudi Arabia that Osama bin Laden might target a civilian aircraft, according to a declassified memo released Friday. NBC's Bob Windrem reports.
MSNBC


The U.S. government warned Saudi Arabia more than three years before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden might use civilian airplanes in terror attacks, according to a memo released Friday by the National Security Archive, NBC News reported.

The June 1998 note says bin Laden “might take the course of least resistance and turn to a civilian target.”

The warning came from a U.S. regional security officer, diplomatic officials and a civil aviation official in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. It was based on a public threat from bin Laden against “military passenger aircraft.” The memo, however, said that bin Laden did “not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians,” NBC News’ Robert Windrem reported.

more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10398375/from/RS.4
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. I wonder what master Mike has planned for '06.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thank you Michael Moore nm
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