education - let's talk.

[ulysses]

I'm going to be up for a couple more hours working on presentations and final projects for my GA State and reading endorsement classes (slack-ass public school teacher that I am) anyway.

I get the sense that an anti-public-school sentiment is growing among nominal progressives. Are like minds to be found on the left and right in this? Does public ed in America have a future?

[KitchenWitch]

1. My beef with the public schools is probably due to lack of funding

Public schools seem to be aimed at teaching the bare minimums to the maximum amount of students.

My very bright son who blows the doors of most standardized tests in math, scores a little lower in language arts, therefore he was not allowed to participate in any of the gifted or enrichment opportunities in our district.

[ulysses]

2. that's a result of the political climate.

Public schools are under attack by the right wing via NCLB - they (we) *have* to aim at the bare minimum for the greatest number, or face state takeover of the school and the loss of a job for the teacher.

I'm sorry to hear about your son. That's wrong.

[KitchenWitch]

4. A lot of this happened before NCLB

I remember arguing with the principal (who was too busy getting her doctorate to really pay any attention to what was going on at her school), about how his scores in language arts would come up as a result of the challenge given him by the enrichment classes (I am not an educator, but I have read the results of some education studies). He was one percentile point from "qualifying" for the enrichment. At the time I did not know where to turn to get help in that area...(lack of internet, etc). I fought in circles with the school administrators, but got nowhere.

[ulysses]

9. that's indefensible.

Again, I'm sorry to hear that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. One percentile?

What a drag.

Sounds like you found out first hand how rigidly administrators stick to those idiotic percentile guidelines. :grr:

[Lex]

3. I don't have any kids but I'm happy to fund public education with my tax $

because it's for the greater good.

I get irritated when I see liberals and progressives with kids bailing out of even trying stay involved in making public schools work.

[ulysses]

10. thanks, Lex.

:)

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Can you clone yourself Lex?

We need lots more like you.
:yourock:

[serryjw]

5. It better

or we are all in trouble. Funding for PS has been the problem in middle/working class areas for many years. The schools in upper class neighborhoods are great. Troubled kids are a very big problems for the teachers, admins and the students that want to learn. My dad renewed a VERY old teaching certificate in 1971 to teach in the inner city.( LA) He was the only white teacher, students all minorities and he said one of the biggest problems were the kids never came to school. They were 10 babysitting for their younger siblings.

[ulysses]

12. ironically,

most of our kids (inner city Atlanta) never miss a day of school - they just tend to fall asleep a lot. This includes, of course, the pregnant 13-year-old in one of my classes...

[serryjw]

19. Can we find out the HS drop out

rate based on soci-economic/racial?


We are creating a bigger gap with the un/under educated minorites that will have no ability to make a sustainable living. A 13 year old pregnant is only contributing to the problem. Why are they all sleeping during class? Bored? I don't think everyone needs to go to college. BUT they do have to get a HS diploma and graduate from a trade school or they will be working in the service industry forever.

[ulysses]

20. here.

http://www.ed.gov/programs/dropout/dropoutprogram.html

A 1999 study titled Dropout Rates in the United States by the National Center on Education Statistics (NCES) reports the following event dropout rates*:
Hispanic students-7.8%
Black, non-Hispanic-6.5%
White, non-Hispanic students-4.0%.
In 1992, the U.S. Department of Education's Indian Nations at Risk Task Force reported the Native American dropout rate to be twice the national average.
Who is at risk of dropping out?

Several studies have found poor academic performance to be the strongest predictor of risk of dropping out (Hess, et al. 1987; Wood 1994).
Other students who are at higher risk of dropping out include those who
repeat one or more grades
are from low socioeconomic backgrounds
speak English as a second language
become pregnant
are frequently absent/truant

[serryjw]

21. At a very early age we know

whom will be on welfare or working minimum wage jobs.The need for MORE high tech education will be greater in the future. These kids will surely be left behind. In the past someone could work an assembly line and make a living wage, obviously, that is no longer possible.

[BattyDem]

6. I believe in public school

Every child should get a free education in this country. What I am against is the constant slashing of funds!

Funding education should be a top priority - it's an investment in our future. We need smaller classes, up-to-date books, computers and specialized classes that will nurture a child's specific talents. One child may be a math whiz, while another is a wonderful artist. Those talents should be developed and encouraged. There is no excuse for America not being able to afford these things - there's always plenty of money for weapons, tax cuts, Congressional pay raises, etc. :grr:

[ulysses]

13. but we can't throw money at the problem!

;-) Thanks!

[spacelady]

7. Too much teaching to the tests where I live. Our daughter's district has

revived quarterly criteria tests after an absence of 25 yrs.; the tests given for NCLB; and Stanford Achievement Tests don't leave much time for just school. South Alabama

[WindRavenX]

11. bingo

Tests are being used in place of teaching critical thinking skills--though we all know neo-cons don't like thinking, educated people in the population.

[ulysses]

14. it's oversimplified,

and they like it that way.

[WindRavenX]

17. No time to teach kids *anything*

Except how to fill in A,B,C, or D :(

Very depressing.

[rucky]

24. If the tests are an accurate measure of learning...

they are worth teaching to. The Stat 9's are a bunch of bull, but State benchmarks tend to be well-thought out and pretty comprehensive. Of course I'm speaking of the states I know about, I'm sure it's different everywhere.

I go back and forth with this issue, and I'm okay with standardized learning goals. It's a way for everybody to measure a class/grade/school with the same stick. Where I draw the line (as in Texas) is when they start micormanaging the classroom. Tell me (teacher) what targets to hit and I'll do my darndest to deliver good scores - but don't tell me HOW I should teach.

The way they're doing it now, it is really annoying to take away classtime. Oregon at least is adapting portfolio assessment and work sample submission to achieve the same goals as the fill-in-the bubble tests. That way we don't have to take from instruction time - just turn in what's already been assigned in class for a new set of eyes to examine.

I can live with that.

[mcctatas]

8. Personally, being a mother to two kids in public school, I think that

anyone who buys in to the anti-public school sentiment is bending over for the grover norquist "drown government in a bathtub and privatize everything" assholes that run our country. If public schools were properly and EQUITABLY funded they would be amazing. I almost feel guilty that I live in a good school district when so many others are being cheated by an unfair funding structure. Kudos to you for doing a job that is underpaid, under valued, and perhaps the most important that someone can do:)

[ulysses]

15. no need for guilt on your part.

Be glad for your kids. :)

And thanks!

[bbgrunt]

22. This trend has been going on for a long time--

since the 70's at least. Disrespect for teachers was rampant in the press. Teachers' unions became the boogeyman blamed for all ills.

Their goal is to provide such tension about bad education and bad teachers and bad environments, that those with any respect for the intellectual process would turn to private schools or home schooling.

Thus, the whole movement is towards a self-fulfilling prophecy as those who have respect for an intellectual process will gradually start finding alternatives to public schools. Ultimately private corporations will then take over the dregs of public education and milk profits from the property tax payer for baby-sitting or, even better, preparing those who depend on public schools for their ultimate destiny--prison labor.

[justabob]

23. I resisted the public schools for a while and now I regret it

My son started at our neighborhood school this year (3rd grade) after going to private school the last 3 years. He was miserable at his old school, particularly last year, really miserable. What is so maddening about that is that the class had 8 kids in it and the teacher still couldn't cope. The parents of all but one or two students were told that their kids were ADD/ADHD and needed to talk to their doctors (read: be medicated). I ultimately gave in and had my son tested because the teacher and principal were so unpleasant to me....and he does have ADHD. Their first question after we got the results was: "So when do you start on meds and which one are you going with?" I was so pissed I could have strangled them both right there. No other solution was acceptable for them. (on edit: I should make clear that I have very serious issues with kids being medicated when other options are available. I know for some, meds are the only answer, but our situation was not that dire) And private schools don't have to provide anything extra for kids who might need a little help. If I could have pulled him out of the school I would have.(we hadn't paid the fee for tuition refund if we left)

Now, at our public school we have an awesome teacher. She teaches a class of 25, most(90%) of the kids are ESOL, and some surely have ADD or whatever plus the school is like 80%, whats the term they use? finacially disadvantaged(?). I spoke with her the first week of school to see if my son was being disruptive or having trouble paying attention and explained about the testing and the results. HER first question, sharply stated was: "He's not on meds is he?" I almost died. She went on to say that "that stuff makes them zombies". She had noticed my son's issues and put him at the front of the class, and also engaged him by having him help another student who has even more problems and it has worked out well. He doesn't have screaming fits about going to school, his homework gets done without agony(for either of us) and he has blossomed. She nominated him for the TAG program which he started a few weeks ago and he loves it too. Life is good. I wish I had given the DISD a chance before I had wasted several thousand dollars for the pleasure of being tortured.