If I was a believer in say, astrology or tarot cards...

[Yollam]

...I would not constantly expect everybody to kowtow to my beliefs and be all offended when the government failed to impose them all on everybody via monuments and the public schools. I would understand that my beliefs had no basis in empirical science or logic and would understand why others scoffed at them

But because they are in the majority in this country, and have been in the majority for hundreds of years, many Christians are totally unable to look upon their own superstition systems with that kind of perspective.

I understand the emotional need for an afterlife, and the comfort people get from the fantasy of a loving or protective creator, or even the self-importance that can come from a belief system that tells you that only you, and people who think like you are chosen and will be saved. I understand it all perfectly. They all spring from our human fears and frailties. But I see no reason why I should respect people who expect everybody else to tiptoe around for fear of upsetting their little apple cart.

For people who are saved, whose faith is supposedly SOOO strong, it's amazing how little it takes to make them feel threatened or offended. It's like they're terrified that they're going to come across that last bit of evidence that will make their world of faith collapse like a house of cards.

As an atheist, I don't live in terror that one of the endless parade of proselytizers is going to finally convince me that their religion is the way, and I don't waste time being offended by the fact that atheists are the MOST discriminated-against "religious group" in this country by far, and in fact are constantly being called immoral, etc. for no reason whatsoever.

So religious folks, with their brittle egos and their righteous indignation over imagined slights need to really get a grip and take it elsewhere.

[waiting for hope]

1. The bad thing is....

most of the religious nut job organizations have a lot of cash and they are pumping it into the repug party...if we can stop the flow of cash, then perhaps the agenda will take a nose dive...

[norml]

2. Leaving out instruction in Kabalah, Tarot, and Astrology, denies the

Indo/Sumerian/Egyptian foundations of our civilization.

[norml]

3. Oh well, at least the magik crowd got this.

[Yollam]

4. Sorry...

I wish I had a response to your last post, but I must plead ignorance.

I have so little interest in "the supernatural" that it's not even funny.

My wife's a Buddhist, believes in ghosts, etc. She says I must be part robot... :shrug:

[norml]

5. I was being silly, however if I must be serious, it has to do with

coincidence, the oneness of Universe, and the interconnectivity of all things.

Have you ever read anything by Carl Jung? You might enjoy his writing.

As for your original post, I agree entirely.

[AmyDeLune]

6. Personally, I prefer Goblin Prognostication Toast

It says "yes" on one side and "no" on the other and if you don't like the answer, you just pick it up and toss it until it comes up with the answer you want.:D

I agree with your most excellent post, I've never understood the insecurity of those who believe themselves to be God's Favorites.

[jbnow]

7. No you don't "understand it all perfectly"

We never do understand the whole of any group or person perfectly.

I am not Christian but God means a lot to me and I always wonder how people can think it is comfort to be a believer. Shit, it was much more comfortable being an agnostic, the world made sense to me.

The world is filled with pain and injustice that completely clashes with a God who is Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent and Loving.

Belief in an afterlife helps a little when you lose someone, but it doesn't make you miss their smile and touch and hugs less. And when I think of myself going on and on, shit, that is a big responsibility, more of a weight then a relief. Not that I think we go on just as we are, but still to not be able to get rid of yourself ever is hardly a comfort.

Thinking "only you, and people who think like you are chosen and will be saved" isn't close to my belief. I don't think we are judged by our beliefs and further if we don't believe we are further ahead to simply not believe then to pretend to.

Spirit is not a cloak we put on from the outside.
Like I said being agnostic was much simpler. I liked it. It fit my logical sensibilities.

Faith in the supernatural is irrational unless you clearly and repeatedly experience the supernatural. Then it would be irrational not to believe in the supernatural and it isn't even about faith. It's knowing what you can't unknow.

But even if I wasn't one of the people you think you perfectly understand I would have to say still you do not perfectly understand.

[Yollam]

10. I said I understand the emotions that pull people towards religion.

And you're right. Understanding the emotional drive to religion is not the same as understanding the entire mythology, or the experiences people use to convince themselves of their veracity.

I'm glad you're not a judgmental jerk, like all fundamentalists and a lot of mainstream Christians are. But if you think the big problem in this country is atheists bashing Christians, I think you're lacking some perspective. We are a tiny minority with no voice, with the exception of progressive sites like this one, and even here, we are hectored for explaining our ideas, because so many Christians make a freaking avocation out of being offended.

[knitter4democracy]

8. In the immortal words of brian k. reese:

I'm sick and tired of whiny Christians!!!

That was a main motto at our evangelical college after he yelled it out in a lit class that was getting censored by whiny Christians.

You have it right: if our faith can't handle a few slings and arrows, what good is it?

Peace to you in this hectic, expensive season.

[tjdee]

9. This is exactly the kind of "holier than thou" (natch!) thing I love to

read.

:thumbsup: