the Illusion that there's nothing we can do to stop the neocons

[mopaul]

it's like a shadow, it's there, but it really isn't. the illusion that we are powerless to stop the madmen fucking up our nation. whenever anyone mentions impeachment, it's instantly shot down as an impossibility and a waste of time.

so the illusion of impotence remains, we'll just have to wait until the elections, as if some magic event will suddenly change america's course. nothing to do but sit back and enjoy the rape for 3 more years and hope for the best.

what the fuck kind of a defeatist attitude is this? there has GOT to be a way to stop these assholes, and don't ask me how, i'm not too bright, and i'm just one schmuck.

we seem powerless to stop these illusions. the illusion that bush was elected twice, the illusion that we were attacked by osama, the illusion that saddam was in on it. the further illusions that bush is making us all safer, and that we will be victorious in iraq, and all those soldiers did not die for absolutely nothing.

our elected leaders are looking out for us? illusion. some candidate will come and save us like a messiah? illusion. the economy is sound? all illusions, and shadows and fog and dust.

i assume we've all been programmed to believe that we are powerless to stop tyranny in the 21st century. sure, our forefathers did it but that was millions of years ago, the neocons have figured out a way to prevent their own removal from our white house, illusion.

they hold sway over us because they KNOW it's all an illusion, they don't even believe it themselves, but we do. our own illusions make us slaves and pawns to these maniacs. 'you can't stop the u.s. government, it's impossible'. 'we can't stop bush's war, it's impossible'.

when i count to three, you will awaken, and you will see that this whole feeling of powerlessness was just an illusion, a cheap trick of the mind, the illusion that a king or leader will make all the right choices for us. you will no longer be fooled by lofty speeches and fat white men in 3,000 dollar suits. you have a will of your own, and you have the power and ability to stop the maniacs.

now think, how do we ACTUALLY stop these fuckers?

[applegrove]

1. Bin Laden did attack. You may loose people by stating he didn't attack

the USA. We all saw & witnessed 9/11. You may be loosing friends right there.

[mopaul]

3. respectfully, prove it.

it's the official white house story, so it's a lie.

[applegrove]

6. I'm not going to get into this. But if you discern that bin Laden did it.

And that we don't yet have smoking gun proof on exactly what was a lie and what was a delusion as to the invasion or Iraq - if you look at it from that point of view you may see that there isn't yet cause for impeachment.

[davekriss]

29. There are reasons to demand removal of Bush from office

Just the fact that 9-11 occurred. Whether you believe it's MIHOP, LIHOP, or in the Incompetence Theory, note that there is nothing positive on that continuum. We need to hold Bush accountable.

But if Bill Clinton can be impeached for dissembling over a slight sexual dalliance (albeit painful for Hillary, Bill, and Monica in a personal way) -- a dalliance that took a $70 million waste of taxpayer dollars to uncover -- then George Walker Bush can be impeached for dissembling over Saddam Bin Laden, the 16 words (actually much more than 16 misleading words) in the SOTU -- heck, for lying about the true cost of the Medicare prescription bill, DSM, Abu Graib, Guantanamo, renditions, nullification of treaties, for allowing no bid contracts to be awarded to Halliburton prior to the illegal and immoral attack on Iraq, any one of dozens of things that rise to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors" now that the Republicans have set the bar so low (with Clinton).

Demanding from Mopaul or any one of us exacting evidence sufficient for conviction (post impeachment) is a bit unfair, as we have neither the dollars nor the access to assemble the necessary evidence. But we have the patriotic right and duty to demand impeachment and, thus, the expenditure of time and effort by Congress to get to the bottom of the dozens of things I allude to above.

[Missy M]

4. We are not even positive who the actual hijackers were because.....

they all died in the attack. We were told Osama was behind it but there is no actual hard proof. It is another of the events we will never have an actual answer to.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Nine of the nineteen 'hijackers'

have been found to be alive and well. So who were the nine people that we misidentified? No one seems to know that answer.

[applegrove]

14. Well you must think that people in the arab culture have no repeats

as far as names go.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Do you have a link for that?

This is new to me. Thanks.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. The first report that some of the hijackers were still alive

came from the BBC on 9/23/01.

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well

23 September, 2001

Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

<snip>

Abdelaziz Al Omari 'lost his passport in Denver'.

Khalid Al-Midhar may also be alive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

Next is a link, that list the hijackers and links to other press reports about their wearabouts.

http://911review.org/Wget/members.fortunecity.com/911/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. If you think some arab

living in a cave in Afghanistan attached the US on 9-11, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell you.

[Atman]

20. Your certainty is part of the problem.

That is why the 9/11 incident was so perfect for the neocons. They knew full well it would unite many Americans. I agree with the op...prove Bin Laden attacked us. There is such a mountain of evidence that the entire thing was a sham, that quite frankly, you have absolutely no way of knowing what we witnessed on 9/11. You are relying entirely on the word of the very people you say we need to remove from office. They've been proven to have lied to us in so many areas related to the "attack," I actually find it amazing anyone could be so sure that Bin Laden had anything to do with it. I'm not in this to gain/make friends. I'm more concerned with my country.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Did Bin Laden ever openly admit doing it?

I'm inclined to the belief that he was involved. It is his financing and motivation that to me, is in doubt. Just whom was he in bed with?

[applegrove]

22. The list of countries Islamic extremists have attacked in the last few

year in major operations. Britain,plans for Belgium, plans for France, Spain, Thailand, Bangladesh (last week), Indonesia, the Phillipines, and the USA, Jordan, Kenya US embassy, Tanzania US Embassy.

Why make yourselves so speacial in the USA that you could not be attacked the same as everyone else in the Western world.

[Atman]

25. How many of those attacks involved anything more than bombs?

I don't deny Islamic extremists have launched lots of attacks -- especially since we whacked the hornet's nest in Iraq -- but can you please tell me how many of those attacks involved a couple dozen highly trained operatives flying airplanes in meticulously coordinated simultaneous attacks on widely dispersed major government and economic centers, as opposed to attacks by one or two guys with explosives strapped to there stomachs, or a carload of fertilizer? You don't see the difference? We had two of the supposed WTC attackers actually living among our own FBI men! The list of improbabilities is almost endless, and the type of attack on the U.S. bears little or no resemblence to a "simple" car bombing, which any zealot with an old Toyota could pull off. No one is saying we're so special we could not be attacked (except you). All we are saying is, something stinks bigtime when the president of the United States sits reading to children while the nation he supposedly leads is under attack, and then uses that attack to follow, virtually to the letter, a written plan put published by his staff nearly a decade prior. You put way too much faith in the word of the world's most notorious liar, George W. Bush, and his neo-con puppetmasters.

[applegrove]

31. Sorry you think America is such a magical place that it could never

be attacked by people who attack everyone.

[Atman]

32. How convenient to be able to brush off everything with a smug comment

about people believing America is a "magical place." No one said any such thing. The argument is the incredibly coindicental set of facts surrounding an administration which has lied about everything it has done, the "Pearl Harbor-type event" it's officials wished for -- in writing -- and the complete lack of evidence surrounding Bin Laden's involvement, or even his current whereabouts and the president's promise to smoke 'im out and bring the son of his father's business associate to justice.

I'd say, rather than you claiming we think America is a magical place, you might think about questioning what makes you think the mysterious cave-dwelling Bin Laden is so omnipotent as to be able to escape justice from the supposedly most powerful military and intelligence operations in the world?

[Swamp Rat]

33. Good morning

:D

[applegrove]

34. Bin Laden is hiding in a haystack? Get the pitch-forks. And thanks!

[applegrove]

35. He and other terrorists have hit countries all over Europe and Canada

too (Air India) for the last 30 years. Islamic extremists have hit many countries in the last 15. Why not you? It was waiting to happen.

[Beam Me Up]

26. They have lied about everything. Why would you believe them about Osama?

Less evidence was provided that bin Laden was behind 9/11 than Sadam had WMD. How can you believe anything they say is true after all the lies they've told? Where's the evidence to back it up?

The events of 9/11 are THE mother of all 'War on Terrorism' (tm) lies. 9/11 has mythic proportions and either we as a nation come to terms with it and expose it for precisely what it is (a monstrous false-flag psychological operation meat to terrorize an entire nation) or we and the world are doomed.

That's not hyperbole, that's the way it is gona go down.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Illusions are very powerful indeed...

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear..."

[WCGreen]

5. The deafest attitude is prevailing....

A lot of this has to do with the perception that the election was stolen so there is nothing we can do about it...

Everytime an election doesn't go as planned, bam... Blame it on Diebold....

[Disturbed]

8. We can all do our part of what we are cabable of.

In the meantime the RW is destroying itself. Dems and Greens need to work together to stop Corporatism of both major parties.

[punpirate]

7. You won't stop them...

... but simple economics will.

1932.

Worth remembering. The `pugs got thrown out because people were starving everywhere. When the middle class got jammed up, Hoover was just another piece-of-shit fatcat to toss in the dustbin.

The government is in the midst of a giant money-printing Ponzi scheme right now. It will collapse. When it does, religion won't fill the empty bellies of the faithful and they'll say, fuck this. Get somebody else, anybody else. The right-wing bigoted rednecks themselves will want to string up Dubya or his successor with anything they can find after the crash comes.

But, it won't happen until that crash. It won't. Right now, it's our generation's version of the Roarin' Twenties. Nobody believes it will ever end, so they'll go on whining about the culture wars that the `pugs have created. When they're starving, and Falwell says, "fuck you, eat cake," they'll figure it out, but not until then.

It's a nasty vision, yeah, I know. But, it's still going to have to play out before people come to their senses. May take ten or twenty years more. But, until most ordinary people really hurt in their bellies, they're going to wave flags and put everything on the credit card and whistle mañana.

Let's just put this in perspective. Half the country's stupid. The other half is scared. That's not a good combination to promote good governance.

[mopaul]

11. like the ending of "THX-1138" by george lucas

they chased thx-1138 for days and days until a voice came over the police radio, 'end the chase, it's no longer economically feasible'.

so, you're right, it will end over money, the stuff that says, 'in god we trust'

[punpirate]

12. And what does he find...

... when he finally escapes? A big bright sun and a new world. :)

[Swamp Rat]

15. I almost bought that DVD last night.

But then I realised I had not enough money. I wonder if my old, worn out VHS in New Orleans is still good? It is Lucas's best film, IMO, and a classic sci-fi.

[SkiGuy]

13. Has a Bush/war supporter ever

listened to you (plural) whenever you brought up these conspiracy theories? From my experience, they didn't. BUT, when I brought up the real conspiracy (PNAC) they paid a little more attention...especially after I show them who some of the authors are. This is just my opinion. There is enough evidence happening now before our very eyes where I think it is unnecessary to bring up the alleged conspiracies. No WMD's, Saddam is gone, torture prisons, etc. A question is asked here to prove Osama was responsible for 9-11. Well I have a question, prove, other than linking to left wing blogs or publications, that the hikackers are alive. Those planes were real passenger liners with real people on board. I will admit that some of the theories are worth questioning, but I would never bring them up to a Bush supporter.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Talk about PNAC a bit

this is something I just began hearing about. (I'm relatively new to politics.)

I know I can google it, and I have..but I'd like to hear a du'ers take on it.

[SkiGuy]

19. PNAC

I first learned if it about 2 months ago. Check out the document "Rebuilding America's Defenses" (download the PDF. It's about 90ish pages). It's where "new pearl harbor" is mentioned and it lays out the plans for the Middle East. Take out Saddam, then go into Syria or Iran next or something to that effect. I find it very scary in that it's theme seems to be about global military, governmental, and moral dominance (hmm, didn't Hitler want that??). I find it equally scary that there is very little, if any, mention of it in the MSM or by the politicians I have written. This http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/PNAC_101 is interesting and informative, but the author mentions a lot of conspiracy theories.

[LunaC]

28. I'm the author - What "conspiracy theories" are you talking about?

That piece is a timeline of actual events that are well-documented with mainstream and credible references to present a strong circumstantial case against the neocons for their apparent complicity in 911. Tell me one thing that isn't backed up with proof or doesn't ring true? Again, what "conspiracy theories" are you talking about?

(But thanks for passing it on! If it doesn't convince people, at least it gets them to start thinking that the Official version is full of holes.)

[JNelson6563]

18. Remedy: Hard work and plenty of it

We should all be working very hard RIGHT NOW to get organized.

Julie

[EFerrari]

23. Check it out: These bastards are doing our work for us.

No, it's not soon enough.

Yes, we will still be a horrible mess to clean up.

They've counted on getting away with everything, on our short national attention span, on their money to pave their way to whateverthefuck.

That's not reality.

In REALITY, a majority of American citizens distrust them and disapprove of them.

In REALITY, their crimes are slowly and surely being outed.

In REALITY, they are clawing to stay in power, and at every swipe, the Earth gives way under them.

MoPaul, listen up: They're toast. Watch. Bet me.

[LunaC]

27. TRUTH is the magic elixir

Speak it LOUD...speak it PROUD...speak it OFTEN...visit the link in my sig line then pass it along.

[texpatriot2004]

30. I Recommend this get more coverage. nm