Shake & Bake : White Phosphorous...NYTimes

[spanone]

Shame on us.

~snip~ In fact, one of the many crimes ascribed to Saddam Hussein was dropping white phosphorus on Kurdish rebels and civilians in 1991.




http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/opinion/29tue1.html?hp

[Double T]

1. It is OK for the US to use chemical weapons but if anyone else does.......

it is an atrocity against humanity. EVERYONE in this country should be OUTRAGED!!!!!!!! bushco should be on trial sitting in the 'playpens' next to Saddam, their is no difference. Torture, chemical weapons-- WTF???

[Squatch]

2. WP is not considered a chemical weapon

[Double T]

4. It is a chemical used as a weapon. Therefore, it is a chemical weapon.

I don't give a shit how the DOD classifies it, it is what it is!!!!!!

[Squatch]

6. Well, then...so is TNT .

It's a chemical used as a weapon.

"I don't give a shit how the DOD classifies it, it is what it is!!!!!!"

OOooookay.....:freak:

[Double T]

7. You might want to read the NY TIMES article referenced......

in this thread. "It also rains balls of flaming chemicals, which cling to anything they touch and burn until the oxygen supply is cut off. They can burn for hours inside a human body." The TNT reference takes the real point I am trying to make to the absurd.

[Squatch]

9. Since when did the NY Times become international law?

"The use of flame weapons, such as Fougasse, the M202A1 Flash, white phosphorous, thermobaric, and other incendiary agents, against military targets is not a violation of current international law."

[Double T]

10. I have seen the horrific aftermath of white phosphorous used by the US....

which killed innocent civilians in Iraq. The fact that you appear to condone the use of such CHEMICAL agents against ANY human being, regardless of whether it is or is not a violation of international law, is in itself a disgrace. I am sorry, have we lost ALL decency and regard for our fellow man?????

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. The US Military has its doubts

(4) Burster Type White phosphorus (WP M110A2) rounds burn with intense heat and emit dense white smoke. They may be used as the initial rounds in the smokescreen to rapidly create smoke or against material targets, such as Class V sites or logistic sites. It is against the law of land warfare to employ WP against personnel targets.

US Army Battle Book ST 100-3 July 1999

(Apologies for capitals - they're in the original)

. IRAQ'S POSSIBLE EMPLOYMENT OF PHOSPHOROUS CHEMICAL
WEAPONS -- IN LATE FEBRUARY 1991, FOLLOWING THE COALITION FORCES'
OVERWHELMING VICTORY OVER IRAQ, KURDISH REBELS STEPPED UP THEIR
STRUGGLE AGAINST IRAQI FORCES IN NORTHERN IRAQ. DURING THE BRUTAL
CRACKDOWN THAT FOLLOWED THE KURDISH UPRISING, IRAQI FORCES LOYAL
TO
PRESIDENT SADDAM ((HUSSEIN)) MAY HAVE POSSIBLY USED WHITE
PHOSPHOROUS (WP) CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST KURDISH REBELS AND THE
POPULACE IN ERBIL (GEOCOORD:3412N/04401E) (VICINITY OF IRANIAN
BORDER) AND DOHUK (GEOCOORD:3652N/04301E) (VICINITY OF IRAQI
BORDER) PROVINCES, IRAQ. THE WP CHEMICAL WAS DELIVERED BY
ARTILLERY ROUNDS AND HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS (NO FURTHER INFORMATION
AT
THIS TIME).

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/declassdocs/dia/19950901/950901_22431050_91r.html

[godai]

13. When Saddam used it, it was described as a chemical weapon

I can guarantee you that he won't be charged with that now.

[jmowreader]

8. It was when Saddam was using it

There are six basic kinds of chemical warfare agents: blister, blood, nerve, choking, psychotomimetic and incendiary.

Blister agents burn the skin and any exposed mucous membranes like eyes and lungs. Mustard gas is a blister agent.

Blood agents halt cellular respiration. The cyanides are all blood agents. Of all the chemical warfare agents, blood agents are the worst to deploy because they break down protective mask filters.

Nerve agents interfere with the enzyme cholinesterase, which is used in nerve transmission. In nerve signaling, the sending nerve transmits acetylcholine to the receiving nerve when it wishes to start transmission and cholinesterase when it wishes to stop. By destroying the cholinesterase, the body overloads which is why the classic symptom of nerve agent intoxication is the victim lying on the ground jerking violently. VX is a nerve agent.

Choking agents dissolve your lungs. Blister agents do the same thing but choking agents are targeted at the lungs. Phosgene is a choking agent.

Psychotomimetic agents make you freak out. PCP and LSD are psychotomimetic agents. (Please don't ask me to type that non-word again...)

Incendiary agents start fires. This is the most commonly-used form of chemical warfare. Napalm, white phosphorus, thermite, just dumping five gallons of diesel on the ground and throwing a match in...

[godai]

12. Yes it is. DOD classified it as such in 1999.

As I've posted before.

[peacetalksforall]

3. Yep - Rumsfeld found the wmds and pocketed them for his own use.

Wolfkowitz, Bremer, Franks = nice 'lil devils, aren't they. Will Ramsey Clark agree to defend them also?

Why? Why? Why? Do they do these things?

Or - why haven't they tried to blame it on the Iranians and Syrians, yet.

[Loonman]

5. Bingo

Good catch.