How was the election stolen?

[ProSense]

Is there enough proof that Kerry won?

[Higans]

1. Is there any Proof that Bush won?

www.votergate.tv

[Dances with Cats]

2. Diebold

and a failure on the part of that fucking Kerry to fight.

[jazzjunkysue]

3. They rigged the tally computers. Simple.

[ProSense]

8. Is this provable?

In your opinion.

[niyad]

11. have you not been paying ANY attention to what is continuing to go on in

ohio? did you miss wally o'dell's (ceo of diebold, and a massive repuke donor) swearing in june of last year that he "would deliver ohio for george bush"? have you missed all the problems in florida, for example? or the county out here in the west, with 300 registered voters, which registered THREE THOUSAND votes for bush?

or did you not see a little piece from barbara harris of blackboxvoting.org, that showed that the tallies can be changed in a matter of seconds, provided one has access to the central tallying computer?

[ProSense]

12. I read all about it

Aren't there a lot of lawyers talking about this? Is there enough evidence to prove it in court?

[blm]

31. I think they mean how do you prove it when there's no evidence available

because machines that are rigged are set up for one time use and then erased immediately. No evidence.

Machines need to be examined, exposed and secured before elections, because after is too late.

[jazzjunkysue]

35. We watched them do it in the ohio recount. Right in front of us, in person

we saw them format the recount tally computer. I heard someone hack into it right on the radio. Plus, the numbers make no sense at all in the black areas. Kerry got no votes, but the third party candidates matched Bush. It's insane. It's dreadfully obvious. But the media is complicit, and so doesn't investigate or report.

[Higans]

4. www.votergate.tv

[ProSense]

5. Anymore proof? n/t

[Balbus]

6. What more proof do you need?

Haven't you heard about all the indictments, the convictions, the resignations, the trials that are a result of that proof??

Neither have I.

[ProSense]

7. I wish! n/t

[BanzaiBonnie]

9. The report from the GAO

There are two lawsuits that I know of: one in Washington state and one in New Mexico.

I haven't heard anything this week, but there was news last week about how they are proceeding.

[tx_dem41]

20. The GAO report contains...

no proof that there was fraud.

[Higans]

27. The question that should be asked:

Is ther any proof that there was no fraud?

[Balbus]

29. In the society that we live in...

It's up to the party that claims malfeasance to provide the proof. That whole silly "innocent until proven guilty" thing can be a drag sometime...

[Chi]

30. We don't live in that society anymore.

Heya Balbus (nice nic)
If voting machines are altering votes....
how do you get the proof, if you are not allowed to examine the voting machines?
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002008.htm

Read this, if you're truly interested.....
http://hamburgsteak.sandwich.net/mirrors/EyeOnOhio/

[Balbus]

33. Sum it up for me...

If there was enough reason to believe that the voting machines were "rigged" why is it so difficult to get a search warrant to examine the voting machines? With all this so-called evidence I'd expect there'd be at least 100 judges out there that would enthusiastically issue search warrants in regards to this... If there was sufficient evidence, that is. :shrug:

[Chi]

34. Summing

You said .."It's up to the party that claims malfeasance to provide the proof."

I asked .."how do you get the proof, if you are not allowed to examine the voting machines?"

Then I supplied a link to an article that says this...
"In the past week, two New Mexico election officials refused to allow the voter plaintiffs in the case of Patricia Rosas Lopategui v. Rebecca Vigil-Giron, et al. to conduct meaningful inspections of their electronic voting machines."
AND
"What comes next? The attorneys for the plaintiffs will ask the court to order the defendants to permit full inspections of the voting machines."

There are at least three current litigations looking to get access to the machines (Washington, New Mexico, and Ohio). It's been almost a year since they all began, they are still not able to investigate the programing.

In short, people are trying to investigate the voting machines, but they are being denied.
There is sufficient evidence to warrent a case, because none of these cases have been thrown out or dismissed after a year.

[Balbus]

36. But if there were search warrents issued the New Mexico election

officials would have no right to deny the voter plaintiffs access to the voting machines. Why isn't their a search warrent?

[Chi]

37. You have to file suite, you can't just 'apply' for a warrant.

They are running their course (law suites), and eventually will get access (if there's any justice in the world).
But not getting a 'search warrant' or subpoena does not prove there is a lack of evidence.
The wheels of justice turn slow, way too slow.

Which brings me back to the question...
how do you get the proof, if you are not allowed to examine the voting machines?
It's a catch22

Do you advocate non-transparent elections?
They had means, motive, and opportunity....tie that in with the blatant voter suppression and the huge WPE and you have plenty of reason to investigate.

[Amaryllis]

26. there is also a lawsuit in Ohio.

[dmkinsey]

10. simple, restricted the number of voting machines in Ohio

but only in Democratic precincts.
There's no need to rig the tally if our votes don't even get cast.

[MH1]

17. BINGO. n/t

[driver8]

22. People waiting in line for 8 hours or more to vote, the Ohio Sec.

of State just happened to be involved with the Bush/Cheney re-election campaign, the CEO of Diebold promising to deliver Ohio to Bush, suspicious lock down of voting machines...

Hell...sounds like a fair election to me!

[journalist3072]

13. Voter suppression

I don't think it's any coincidence that in majority Democratic (and African-American) neighborhoods in Ohio, there were not enough voting machines.

Here is this particular excerpt from a Washington Post article that i think is really very telling:

Several Factors Contributed to 'Lost' Voters in Ohio

By Michael Powell and Peter Slevin

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Tanya Thivener's is a tale of two voting precincts
in Franklin County. In her city neighborhood, which is vastly
Democratic and majority black, the 38-year-old mortgage broker found a line
snaking out of the precinct door.

She stood in line for four hours -- one hour in the rain -- and
watched dozens of potential voters mutter in disgust and walk away without
casting a ballot. Afterward, Thivener hopped in her car and drove to her
mother's house, in the vastly Republican and majority white suburb of
Harrisburg. How long, she asked, did it take her to vote?

Fifteen minutes, her mother replied.

[Kansas Wyatt]

14. I still do not understand a legitimate recount can take place,

In accordance with election laws, by just re-tabulating a computer.

[niyad]

18. that's the point, a legitimate recount CANNOT be made, without a paper

trail that the diebold and ess machines do not have. once the calculator has done its work, there is no trace.

[journalist3072]

15. I also think that

We need to keep throwing the words of Dick Morris right back in the Rethug's face.

Dick Morris had this to say on the accuracy of exit polls:

"Exit polls are almost never wrong. They eliminate the two major potential fallacies in survey research by correctly separating actual voters from those who pretend they will cast ballots but never do and by substituting actual observation for guesswork in judging the relative turnout of different parts of the state.

So reliable are the surveys that actually tap voters as they leave the polling places that they are used as guides to the relative honesty of elections in Third World countries. When I worked on Vicente Fox’s campaign in Mexico, for example, I was so fearful that the governing PRI would steal the election that I had the campaign commission two U.S. firms to conduct exit polls to be released immediately after the polls closed to foreclose the possibility of finagling with the returns. When the polls announced a seven-point Fox victory, mobs thronged the streets in a joyous celebration within minutes that made fraud in the actual counting impossible."


I don't think it is any coincidence that the exit polls in the afternoon of election day, showed John Kerry leading nationwide by like 3%, and then the so-called "final" results were the exact opposite of that.

Also, why is it that we keep having reports about the problems with touch screens? And it almost always involves people trying to vote for a Democratic candidate, saying that the touch screen is showing them casting their vote for the Republican?

On election day in Virginia just last month, there were reports that some voters intending to vote for the Democratic candidate for Governor, saying that their touch screen was telling them they were actually casting their vote for the Republican candidate.

[kansasblue]

16. Hey Prosense, read here , lots of stuff (link)

http://www.truthisall.net/

[ProSense]

23. Thanks

Is it hard to prove?

[OnTheOtherHand]

40. depends on what you mean by "it"

If "it" is that Kerry won the 'real' popular vote, then I personally think that not only is it hard to prove, but it is probably untrue. A lot of other bad stuff is provable.

TruthIsAll has a lot to say about polls, but doesn't know all that much about them, which is a problem IMHO. Most people who do know about polls don't agree with him (which of course doesn't prove that Bush won the popular vote!). You have to sort through the evidence carefully.

[Amaryllis]

24. Here:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/
Lots of stuff

[Amaryllis]

25. And here:

www.oregonvrc.org
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1556
http://chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm
http://chuckherrin.com/ConservativeEmpathy.htm

[johnaries]

19. Try posting this in the Election Reform forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

Your eyes will be opened.

[ProSense]

21. Thanks

This is a general questions.

[rman]

28. electionS - plural

Read all about it on the DU election reform forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203


The short version:
- in virtually all cases where exit polls deviated significantly from election results, it was in favor of Bush.
- in virtually all cases where there was a shortage of voting machines, it was in democratic districts.

[mod mom]

32. Here is a little summary of 1 High Dem Ohio County:

I start with a section on Tom Noe, Bush Pioneer, and indicted for laundering $ in b/c '04 because he would meet with Rove and his wife was Chair of the Lucas County (Toledo, high Dem) BOE-which was so tainted with problems that Blackwell was forced to investigate it and issue a scathing report which results in massive firings:

By the early nineties, Tom W. Noe had a net worth of 2.4 million dollars and his coin business had sales over $6.4 million. Then the Blade reports:

By 1992, a year after his business had suffered what he called “a huge loss,” he figured he was more than $16,500 in debt.
As Mr. Noe tried to support a lifestyle that didn’t match his income, the financial strain was crushing
“I was liquidating assets as quickly as I could to appease banks so they wouldn’t foreclose on myself and my business,” he testified during divorce proceedings.

Despite the tough times, he continued to find money to give to politicians and others.
In 1991 and 1992 combined, court records show, Mr. Noe sent $29,200 to GOP politicians or the Republican Party and nearly $11,000 to charities.

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050515/NEWS24/505150404/0/NEWS10

Tom Noe is under federal investigation regarding the loss of $ 12 million rare coins from the $ 50 million dollar investment by the Ohio Bureau of Workmens Comp (BWC).Bernadette Noe and Tom Noe both have links to the Lucas County BOE. Ms Noe was Chairperson of the Lucas County BOE during the past election. I hope you have taken the time to read the SOS's Investigation of Lucas county following the election:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/elections/lucas.htm


This report includes the fact that REPUBLICAN VOLUNTEERS were allowed UNSUPERVISED ACCESS to UNSECURED BALLOTS prior to the election, as well as this list:

*failure to maintain ballot security
*Inability to implement and maintain a trackable system for voter ballot reconciliation .
*failure to prepare and develop a plan for the processing of the voluminous amount of voter registration forms received.
*issuance and acceptance of incorrect absentee ballot forms.
*manipulation of the process involving the 3% recount.
*disjointed implementation of the Directive regarding the removal of Nader and Camejo from the ballot .
*failure to properly issue hospital ballots in accordance with statutory requirements.
*failure to maintain the security of poll books during the official canvass
*failure to examine campaign finance reports in a timely manner.
*failure to guard and protect public documents.
*failure to guard and protect public documents ....etc.


-One-half of the ballots printed and used in the 2004 general election in Lucas county were stored in an open space on the fhird floor of the county warehouse with no security measures in place.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation on Lucas County BOE page 4



-Live ballots were delivered to polling locations a week in advance of the election. Although the ballots were retrieved, one board employee who was assigned to the warehouse informed the SOS staff that he did not believe all the ballots were successfully retrieved.
SOURCE; SOS Investigation, page 5



-Lucas County BOE failed to record or retrieve ballot stub numbers of absentee voters’ ballots as required by statute OH Revised Code 3505.23. It was reported by an elector that her mother had received not one, but three absentee voter ballots. there was no way to determine if similar incidents occurred and if so how many.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, page 7




-October 4, 2004 was filing deadline for new voter registrations. At that point there were approximately 20,000 unprocessed voter registration applications with less than a month before the election. One mail tray containing 4,500-7,000 (estimates vary) unprocessed “Project Voter” registrations were discovered on or about October 18,2004.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 10

***Of interest here is information obtained from the SOS website entitled ElectionsVoter/results 2003 and 2004 which show the # of registered voters number change from ‘03-’04 was 11,947 in Lucas County: reg voters 2003 in Lucas=288,190 ; registered voter in 2004=300,137.



-In late September or early October an employee of the Ohio Republican Party contacted Sam Thurber (*involved with politician wife Maggie Thurber in Noe scandal.) wanting to inspect and have copies made of all recently returned voter registrations, Ohio Republican Party offered to furnish volunteers to assist with copying postcards. No one at the Lucas County BOE can confirm that anyone was assigned to supervise Republican volunteers. On their second day of copying, a BOE employee, Jennifer Bernath, Democratic Booth Official) saw republican party volunteers peeling off the yellow return stickers applied by the post office. (Violation of RC 149.43 (B) (I) , and agruably a violation of 149.351.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, pgs 18-19

*Among those whose donations have caught the attention of investigators are:

City Councilman Betty Shultz; former state representative Sally Perz, her husband, Joe, and her daughter, Allison; former county elections director Joe Kidd; county Auditor Larry Kaczala and his wife, Gina; County Commissioner Maggie Thurber and her husband, Sam; and two of Mr. Noe’s co-workers at Vintage Coins and Collectibles, partner Tim Lapointe and executive assistant Susan Metzger. Mr. Lapointe’s wife, Linda, also donated.

All of the above gave the campaign $2,000 except the Thurbers; each of them gave $1,950 to the campaign. The $23,900 in donations were made between Oct. 30 and Nov. 5, 2003.

Path of donations At issue is whether Mr. Noe gave people money in order for them to give to the Bush campaign, allowing Mr. Noe to exceed federal spending limits, law-enforcement sources said.
Source:
Toledo Blade - FBI Raids GOP Donor Noe's Condo
Friday, April 29, 2005




-The Swanton 3 poll book turned up missing and has never been recovered.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 16


-The number of precincts in Lucas County for the November 2003 election was 530 precincts, at the time of the November 2, 2004 election there were 495 precincts.


Tom W. Noe served as the Chairman of the Lucas County Republican Party from 1992-1995 as well as on the board of the Lucas County Board of Election from 1993-2003. He was also appointed to the Ohio Board of regents in 1995.

http://www.regents.state.oh.us/people/noe.html


(Although he did not possess a college degree, in fact he dropped out in his first year of college)



It was during his tenure on the BOE that Diebold machines were brought into Lucas County.

"TOLEDO, Ohio, May 10, 2002 ¯ Just about every county in the nation is rushing to update their voting technology, but no county to date has done it faster than Lucas County."
<snip>
"Lucas County Board of Elections Acting Chairman Tom Noe, who was present to observe the May 7th election, was pleased with the outcome. "I don't think there is another county in the nation that has implemented touch screen voting as quickly as Lucas County did for this trial run in a primary election," Noe said. "The people of Lucas County and of Ohio in general can be proud of this achievement.""
http://www.sequoiavote.com/mediadetail.php?id=57

http://www.diebold.com/news/newsdisp.asp?id=2997

Also Mr. Noe intervened with Blackwell in a court case:

Thomas W. Noe files to intervene in Democrat court Case v. BlackwellEdited on Fri May-27-05 05:57 PM by phoebe
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/docs/sandusky/doc5...

Also, please be aware of this information on Democratic Underground, which includes many interesting links:

</www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=371800&mesg_id=371800>

There were so many problems concerning the election in Lucas County, including with the Diebold machines. Here is a report from an observer of the re-count in Lucas County:

December 22, 2004
 
Report from Recount Observer, Lucas County, Ohio
Emailed report from Lucas County, Ohio, Recount Observer:

i was a witness for the testing of the optiscan machines on tuesday the 14th.

what is puzzling to me, after the tests of the scanners were finished, the witnesses were not allowed to compare the hand count results to the printed results from the scanners. the ballots, the hand count sheets and the printed tapes were all taken away, to another room, out of sight of any witnesses and about 40 minutes later, the director comes out and tells us everything checks out.

we go to lunch and when we come back, we find ourselves waiting in the lobby. why? we were waiting for diebold to reprogram the scanners. what? didn't they just verify that everything was on the up and up? what is the need to reprogram the scanners?

also, during the testing process, one precinct, sylvania 3, continuously had the test ballots spit back out at least 3 times for approximatley 50% of them. during the election, how many times did this occur and what poll worker is going to stand there and continuosly feed the scanner to get it to scan 1 ballot? therefore, how many of the ballots were put in the spoiled pile that were really not spoiled?

another thing that was very interesting was the two people that i was witnessing actually did not know how to run the scanner. are they the type of people that were the normal who were overseeing the election? am i crazy? what is wrong with this picture?

after witnessing the fiasco of a test recount being conducted at the lucas county government center, i am definitely for scrapping this election and having a re- vote. there isn't any other way we are going to get a legitimate election.

Please also visit "Ohio Election 2004" athttp://ohioelection2004.com.

It was during his tenure on the BOE that Diebold machines were brought into Lucas County.

"TOLEDO, Ohio, May 10, 2002 ¯ Just about every county in the nation is rushing to update their voting technology, but no county to date has done it faster than Lucas County."
<snip>
"Lucas County Board of Elections Acting Chairman Tom Noe, who was present to observe the May 7th election, was pleased with the outcome. "I don't think there is another county in the nation that has implemented touch screen voting as quickly as Lucas County did for this trial run in a primary election," Noe said. "The people of Lucas County and of Ohio in general can be proud of this achievement.""
http://www.sequoiavote.com/mediadetail.php?id=57

http://www.diebold.com/news/newsdisp.asp?id=2997


RIGGING THE VOTE IN LUCAS COUNTY

Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D.
Revised December 24, 2004

-snip-

The very first thing we all noticed when examining the precinct
canvass records for Lucas County was the distribution of turnout.
The range is striking, and turnout is distinctly higher in the
Bush precincts than in the Kerry precincts. In some precincts
the reported turnout is too high to be credible.


PRECINCTS WITH HIGHEST TURNOUT, TOLEDO SUBURBS

Precinct Turnout Bush Kerry

MONCLOVA TOWNSHIP 10 92.67 217 161
MONCLOVA TOWNSHIP 11 92.46 424 298
SYLVANIA TOWNSHIP J 91.97 84 40
OREGON 16 89.46 186 210
MAUMEE 18 89.44 205 190
MONCLOVA TOWNSHIP 7 87.78 285 151
MONCLOVA TOWNSHIP 9 87.58 195 78
RICHFIELD TOWNSHIP 2 86.76 105 83
SYLVANIA TOWNSHIP K 86.74 338 177
SYLVANIA TOWNSHIP I 86.48 270 184
SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP 25 86.17 230 116
OREGON 5 86.09 382 390
MONCLOVA TOWNSHIP 5 85.96 365 181
MAUMEE 12 85.48 197 262
WATERVILLE TOWNSHIP 7 85.36 328 189
OREGON 15 85.23 189 287
YLVANIA CITY 18 85.05 434 214
SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP 9 84.98 297 147
SYLVANIA CITY 10 84.87 254 157
SYLVANIA CITY 21 84.87 516 295
SYLVANIA TOWNSHIP H 84.85 211 122
WATERVILLE TOWNSHIP 3 84.56 356 304
WATERVILLE TOWNSHIP 6 84.48 293 183
WATERVILLE TOWNSHIP 9 84.31 542 260
SYLVANIA TOWNSHIP CC 84.21 262 194


Turnout above 90% is almost unheard of. I have examined the
canvass records in eight other Ohio counties and have seen
reported turnout above 90% only in two precincts in Miami County
where, in my professional opinion, the election was hacked.
Miami and Lucas counties are also the only two counties whose
records I have examined that used optical scanning machines, as
confirmed by the map posted at

verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map.php?&topic_string=5std&state=Ohio



Altogether there were 63 precincts in Toledo with less than 60%
reported turnout. All of them were won overwhelmingly by John
Kerry. The vote in the aggregate was 19,353 to 4,247, more than
4.5 to 1. But look at the distribution, or more precisely, the
concentration. Of the 8 precincts with less than 50% reported
turnout, 4 are located in 2 wards. Of the 29 precincts with less
than 55% reported turnout, 20 are located in 4 wards, and 24 are
located in 6 wards. Of the 63 precincts with less than 60%
reported turnout, 34 are located in 4 wards, 39 are located in
5 wards, and 43 are located in 6 wards.




TOLEDO PRECINCTS WITH LOWEST REPORTED TURNOUT

Precinct Turnout Bush Kerry

TOLEDO 8-I 39.18 100 328
TOLEDO 18-C 44.01 28 280
TOLEDO 2-D 46.18 50 388
TOLEDO 2-A 47.40 68 275
TOLEDO 8-J 47.50 48 315
TOLEDO 19-C 49.07 117 404
TOLEDO 24-B 49.41 142 191
TOLEDO 2-I 49.91 28 237
TOLEDO 19-D 50.35 45 167
TOLEDO 17-I 50.63 78 283
TOLEDO 2-H 51.47 57 335
TOLEDO 2-G 51.63 59 346
TOLEDO 2-F 52.24 28 294
TOLEDO 18-B 52.32 47 196
TOLEDO 17-C 52.53 34 171
TOLEDO 15-J 52.61 80 271
TOLEDO 4-N 52.69 52 396
TOLEDO 7-B 52.85 72 367
TOLEDO 17-J 53.15 110 343
TOLEDO 17-F 53.46 111 475
TOLEDO 2-C 53.47 70 236
TOLEDO 15-A 53.92 84 209
TOLEDO 8-M 53.98 31 125
TOLEDO 17-H 54.22 89 286
TOLEDO 10-A 54.41 52 424
TOLEDO 6-K 54.48 20 124
TOLEDO 19-B 54.57 101 251
TOLEDO 8-F 54.65 11 222
TOLEDO 19-A 54.89 77 294
TOLEDO 24-D 55.12 206 283
TOLEDO 17-D 55.14 48 145
TOLEDO 14-F 55.42 8 216
TOLEDO 24-E 55.73 112 191
TOLEDO 19-F 55.82 91 230
TOLEDO 18-A 56.22 75 266
TOLEDO 19-E 56.25 55 188
TOLEDO 8-H 56.47 17 221
TOLEDO 6-M 56.51 77 252
TOLEDO 8-C 56.57 9 417
TOLEDO 12-E 56.81 144 291
TOLEDO 17-G 56.87 103 370
TOLEDO 19-H 56.91 75 237
TOLEDO 3-I 57.07 86 253
TOLEDO 4-E 57.14 37 254
TOLEDO 8-K 57.32 33 611
TOLEDO 20-A 57.48 62 292
TOLEDO 14-E 57.77 11 411
TOLEDO 8-L 58.02 20 515
TOLEDO 17-E 58.02 23 70
TOLEDO 8-G 58.29 13 320
TOLEDO 18-G 58.67 80 237
TOLEDO 4-H 58.75 24 278
TOLEDO 13-E 58.78 13 401
TOLEDO 6-F 58.81 167 242
TOLEDO 4-C 59.23 74 380
TOLEDO 18-I 59.56 58 261
TOLEDO 2-B 59.64 60 430
TOLEDO 10-G 59.68 9 289
TOLEDO 19-G 59.70 135 340
TOLEDO 20-I 59.78 34 127
TOLEDO 13-G 59.83 18 259
TOLEDO 13-A 59.84 11 207
TOLEDO 3-C 59.94 82 308


Altogether there were 63 precincts in Toledo with less than 60%
reported turnout. All of them were won overwhelmingly by John
Kerry. The vote in the aggregate was 19,353 to 4,247, more than
4.5 to 1. But look at the distribution, or more precisely, the
concentration. Of the 8 precincts with less than 50% reported
turnout, 4 are located in 2 wards. Of the 29 precincts with less
than 55% reported turnout, 20 are located in 4 wards, and 24 are
located in 6 wards. Of the 63 precincts with less than 60%
reported turnout, 34 are located in 4 wards, 39 are located in
5 wards, and 43 are located in 6 wards.

/web.northnet.org/minstrel/toledo.htm
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/toledo.htm

Lucas County Democratic headquarters burglarized


A Toledo police officer leaves the scene of a burglary at Democratic Headquarters in Toledo today.
( THE BLADE/LORI KING )



The Lucas County Democratic Headquarters was burglarized overnight, and three computers, including the party’s main system, were stolen.
The computers contained highly sensitive information, including the party’s financial information, names and personal phone numbers of hundreds of party members, candidates, and volunteers.
The computers also stored e-mails from candidates that included discussion about campaign strategy.

A second computer, belonging to an attorney-volunteer working to ensure voters’ rights, also was taken, officials said. The headquarters on 1817 Madison Avenue does have an alarm system that volunteers believed they set late Monday when they left.
However, it apparently wasn’t tripped during the night. Workers arriving about 7:30 a.m. yesterday noticed the back window had been shattered and called police.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041012/NEWS03/41012016




December 22, 2004
 
Report from Recount Observer, Lucas County, Ohio
Emailed report from Lucas County, Ohio, Recount Observer:

i was a witness for the testing of the optiscan machines on tuesday the 14th.

what is puzzling to me, after the tests of the scanners were finished, the witnesses were not allowed to compare the hand count results to the printed results from the scanners. the ballots, the hand count sheets and the printed tapes were all taken away, to another room, out of sight of any witnesses and about 40 minutes later, the director comes out and tells us everything checks out.

we go to lunch and when we come back, we find ourselves waiting in the lobby. why? we were waiting for diebold to reprogram the scanners. what? didn't they just verify that everything was on the up and up? what is the need to reprogram the scanners?

also, during the testing process, one precinct, sylvania 3, continuously had the test ballots spit back out at least 3 times for approximatley 50% of them. during the election, how many times did this occur and what poll worker is going to stand there and continuosly feed the scanner to get it to scan 1 ballot? therefore, how many of the ballots were put in the spoiled pile that were really not spoiled?

another thing that was very interesting was the two people that i was witnessing actually did not know how to run the scanner. are they the type of people that were the normal who were overseeing the election? am i crazy? what is wrong with this picture?

after witnessing the fiasco of a test recount being conducted at the lucas county government center, i am definitely for scrapping this election and having a re- vote. there isn't any other way we are going to get a legitimate election.

Please also visit "Ohio Election 2004" athttp://ohioelection2004.com.


Looking at the GEMS official results (from Lucas County BOE discs obtained through a public records request) I noticed a weird discrepancy:

First, Presidential results from Lucas:

Badnarik 294
bu$h 87,106 (39.56%)
Kerry 132,537 (60.19%)
Cobb 8
Schriner 2

TOTAL VOTES: 220,190 with 495 precinct in Lucas

Now.. there are 2 congressional districts in Lucas County: District 9 and District 5

Here are the results for DISTRICT 9 CONGRESSIONAL SEAT(which obviously includes Toledo):

Kaczala (R) 60,949
Kaptur (D) 145,998

TOTAL VOTES: 206,947 with 478 precincts

DISTRICT 5 CONGRESSIONAL SEAT:

Gillmor (R) 5,497
Weirsuch(D) 3,277

TOTAL VOTES: 8,774 with 17 precincts

********
Total Votes in the County for PRESIDENT=220,190
Total Votes for the county for CONGRESS=215,721

Now it is understandable that more people might vote for president while leaving a congress vote blank, but...

Total Dem Votes in County for President = 132,537 while
Total Dem Votes in County for Congress = 149,275

that equates to 16,738 more dem votes for congress than dem votes for president AND

Marcy KAPTUR IN DISTRICT 9 (WITH 478 PRECINCTS AND A TOTAL OF 206,947 POSSIBLE VOTES) HAD 13,461 MORE VOTES THAN KERRY!

[DavidBowman]

38. No

There isn't any proof that Kerry won. Not a shred. There's some circumstantial evidence that things weren't what they should be, but no proof of any tampering at all.

Try this in a courtroom and see what happens.

[Chi]

39. Try reading sometime...it's educational.

It is in the courtroom, buy a clue.

Go here and pick a couple of counties...
http://www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/ohio_reports/
(Cuyahoga, warren, and clermont make for some fun reading)

Then repeat your statement "but no proof of any tampering at all."