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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:48 PM
Original message
We need a Goth forum or group
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 04:49 PM by RedXIII
because i was looking in the lifestyle area of this site but it seems you don't have a place to discuss Alchemy-gothic carta-LLC stuff or anything like Hot Topic.


Anyone agrees there should be a group,What say you.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd like one
because I teach a lot of kinds who identify themselves as Goth and I like to learn about stuff like that.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Will we discuss the sacking of Rome?
and the latest fashions in chainmail? Or the further adventures of Beowolf?
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. LMAO!
nice :)
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Qibing Zero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Got a good laugh out of that one - thanks! nt
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givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. You really need to consider this...
Edited on Sun Nov-20-05 05:22 PM by givemebackmycountry
There are a lot of groups that started out because a couple of people said "hey we really need a this group or a that group".

These groups started with the best of intentions, but then it was realized that no, I guess we really didn't need a group.

Look at the number of groups that have little or no activity.

That's because the question was never asked.

80,000 members.
How many are into THIS or are into THAT.

If you can't answer at least 15% than you don't need a group.

But then again, what the hell do I know.

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LeighAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. A nearby suburb got $300,000 from the gov't to combat Gothism
They ended up having to give it back, though.

I support your idea and would like to see such a forum. When my son was 13 I came under a lot of fire for buying him white makeup and black nail polish. He's 21 now, but he's not a Goth anymore, now he's a Juggalo.

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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Geez...
...why do people have such a problem with Goths? Most of them are pretty harmless, & there are always nutcases in every group, not just Goths. Goths are also usually intelligent. And most eventually outgrow it & move onto something else. I went to school with Goths, punk rockers, heavy metal fans...I've seen it all.

Tammy
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Somawas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Visigoths, Ostrogoths or Gepid?
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lady raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. What kind of Goth?
I was an 80s "old school" goth- velvet, lace, black hair, poetry, The Cure, Dead Can Dance, etc. That is not even in the same zip code with what kids call Goth nowadays.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. What are Goth's anyway (in the modern sense of the word)?
I know what they dress like and all the external stuff, but is there anything deeper than that - a philosophy or something - behind the image?
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darkmaestro019 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'd like one. : )
And I'm digging your screen name. My anti-slavery sort of Hojo-hate always made me rename him Nanaki, though. : )

and get AC if you haven't. Orgasmic.
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. ....
BUMP
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. We need a new group where we can say we need a new group.
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. ..
OOPS! that was supposed to read Alchemy Gothic of England.
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. BTTT
BUMP
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Where is everyone? ):
;;bump;;
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. ....
bump
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. bump the list if you're feeling happy.
bump the list if you're feeling happy. Come on, just bump the list.
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. definition of what is Goth,not written by me but i think best describes it
Edited on Wed Nov-23-05 07:54 PM by RedXIII
From Goth net:
This is probably the hardest question any goth could try and answer, one may as well ask 'what is society?' as it has so many facets it defies any definitive explanation.

Goth in its simplest form, is a subculture. A group of people who feel comfortable within each others company. There is no specific thing that defines what you need to do or be to fit into the goth scene (except of course the implied black clothing). People in the goth scene all have different musical tastes, follow different religions, have different occupations, hobbies, and fashion sense.

Why do people become goths?
Most goths become goths because they have been spurned by 'normal' society because the way they want to live their lives does not fit in with how most people are told to live theirs. Goths are free thinkers, people who do not accept the moral rules of society because they're told 'This is just how it is' or 'This is what God says!'. Rather goths tend to listen to what you have to say, and make up their own mind. This kind of free thinking and rejection of dogma earns only rejection in todays society.

However because of this rejection from 'normal' society, goths have banded together to associate with other free thinkers. This has a beneficial effect on both the individual and society as a whole. For the individual they have a sense of belonging, and friends they can associate with. For society it removes one more misfit filled with rage from society's streets.

This of course is not the case for all goths. Many goths today are goths for a variety of other reasons. They like the music, or the clubs are better, they have goth friends and joined in with them, or they just like staying up late nights and goths are the only ones awake to talk to.

The gothic stereotype
Many stereotypes of goths exist these days. It seems everyone has their own way to define 'what is goth'. From the stereotypes based on clothing to music right up to the stereotypes of all goths being satanists or part of some kind of cult. Categorically, all of these are false.

The goth scene is just as widely varied as society in general. There are many different professions represented in the scene, from highly skilled professionals like doctors and lawyers, to tradesman, to technically minded people to clerical workers. Many different musical tastes exist (and not all of them goth, there is a HUGE 80's following in the goth scene for some reason). The fashion varies vastly from goth to goth from the traditional flowing victorian style garments to the buckled and studded style regalia (also called industrial style, which is often closely related with goths, and have come to an understanding of co-existance, if uneasily at times).

How do I get into goth?
This is the simplest part of the page. Go check out our Community section over on the left, and use it to find out whats going on in your local area. Goths tend to be accepting and open minded. Just turn up to a club or event wearing all black and your already in the goth scene. You'll pick it up as you go along (just a hint though, lay off the vampire comments!).

The gothic sense of humour is highly developed, and often leans toward the satirical. Quietly laughing at the more idiotic and less tolerant factions of society that seem to think yelling out of cars at us makes them cooler. Goths have learned to laugh at themselves and see society in a much different light. They have had to, and it is a trait most would not give up.

Goths have for the most part (not unanimously of course, but mostly) dropped all forms of prejudice. Noone is afraid within the goth scene to come out as being gay, and noone has to hide their religion for fear of scorn from their peers or zealots wanting to convert them from the arms of Satan. In fact because of these facts (and the general lack of prejudice) the goth scene has a large proportion of gays/bisexuals, and followers of non-mainstream religions and views. This of course is the most important aspect of gothdom, and why most goths became goths in the first place, tolerance.

But they think weird!
Ah, but this is the beauty of goths. Most subjects that are taboo in 'normal' society are freely discussed and debated about. Death, religion, magick, mysticism, and many other topics that are only roached carefully outside of the gothic community. Most goths have realised that fear is only a reaction instilled in us by dogmatic propaganda, and once you realise there is nothing to fear from the topic, whats to stop you discussing it?

Goths often revel in the fear given to them by society as a whole. Often the behavior exhibited by society to them based on society's perception of them from stereotypes, rumour, etc are a constant source of entertainment. Of course, most of the rumours are totally unfounded, goths are people like everyone else, however when you already have a reputation, going for the shock factor is often far too tempting to see how much society at large is willing to believe (or deduce) with only a little encouragement.

This does not totally fall away once you get inside the scene unfortunately, and goths are all too often tempted to try for the shock factor within the scene (which turns out more tacky than shocking). Goths when you get down to it can be a rather pretentious bunch, trying for those extra 'goth points' on the gothier than thou scale, but it adds to the enjoyment.

History of Goth
Modern goth (ignoring where the name itself originally comes from) started in the early 80's as part of the punk subculture (which is itself was a rejection of most societal values, and anything considered part of the 'norm'). The phrase was coined by the band manager of Joy Division, Anthony H. Wilson, who described the band as 'Gothic compared with the pop mainstream'. The term stuck, and as punk eventually died, Goth survived and became its own subculture. The punk clothing and hairstyles mellowed, and the core 'rejection of society' attitude alone lived on in the gothic subculture. Over time this itself has been modified to be more of a 'no more blind acceptance of society's values' as opposed to rejection because it was there to be rejected (and because you could get away with it!).

Movies such as The Crow, and bands such as the Bauhaus helped establish the gothic image as dark, depressing, and even evil. As more and more 'dark' movies came out, numbers in the gothic subculture expanded, and there is now a gothic community in almost every major city around the world, and quite a number of towns have their own representative contingent. Nowdays there are more goth bands around than ever, and it has turned from an 80's phenomenon into a 90's way of life for many people. Unlike the punk subculture that it spawned from, there even exists a class of mature goths, still following the scene around even past their 20's and into their 30's and beyond.

-- PreZ


Please note that the above is the opinion of the author, and that there is no definitive answer to the question "What is Goth?", so opinions and answers will vary.

© 2000,2001 Preston A. Elder

END quote
Give all credit to the people who deserve it.
I did not write this, but I believe it
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. So you're calling for a 'dogma-free' forum?
Because that seems to be what defines 'Goth' in that piece (apart from black clothing, but who cares about clothing online?) I'd have thought the Lounge would fit perfectly.
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antigone382 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yeah, I might be into that.
I'm not goth myself, but I have a lot of friends that are.

It's funny to me that people get so much shit because they dress goth--well, not so much because they dress goth, as because they're normal people who happen to dress goth. People expect you to be some deep and expressive poet or philosopher or artist, just because you choose to dress a certain way; and if you don't act or think the way they think that you should, they laugh at you and call you a hypocrite, or a kid who's just trying to get attention. It's asinine.

Yeah, some "goths" are just as superficial and hypocritical as anyone else...why shouldn't they be? Some of them are really moody, and some of them are really cheerful. And believe it or not, some teenage goths are confused and attention-seeking--maybe it's not because they're goth; maybe it's because they're, umm, teenagers. That's just humanity--they're just people, and it's just clothes. Why does it have to be such a big deal?
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. As an old Hippie, we had the same problem growing up.
The long hair, tie dye shirts, sandals, bell bottom jeans, wild hair....people thought we were freaks. :hippie: Don't worry. BE HAPPY! Wear whatever you feel like wearing and feel comfortable in. It's CLOTH.
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rolleitreks Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-21-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yeah, along with animal rights and gun control, that'll help in'08 n/t
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Goths are more likely to be Republicans
Devil worship you know. Goths are often accused of it. Republicans often do it. So...
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. well actually i consider myself
as independent with some democrat viewpoints,like that women,People of color,and gays should have equal rights.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I just thought, you know, if you were into devil worship, the GOP
... is the obvious place to go. Lots of normal, scared, essentially ignorant people there, of course. But a whole damned bunch of them are on their knees for Satan and fixin' to go to Hell when the Big G starts asking them how they lived.

But you're an independent, so forget it...
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RedXIII Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. well that belief about Goths being demon worshipers
is the oldest stereotype in the book, because many goths are of different religions like Jewish goths,Buddhist goths,Xian goths,or no religion at all.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Oh yeah, it's not true about Goths. I'm talking about Republicans...
People tend to stereotype Goths, but Republicans, a large number of whom actually do worship Satan, get off Scot free. No offense intended to Goths. I even actually feel sorry for a lot of the damned Republicans. I don't think the truly benighted Republicans even know they are worshiping Satan. But, you know, if something quacks like a Satan worshiper, what the heck do you call it?

No. Not a duck.
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