Lou asks "Should boys and girls be taught in separate classrooms?"

[snowbear]

Can't believe freeps are saying yes!

Help Lou out FAST .. he swore everyone would vote NO! http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

[DoYouEverWonder]

I went to an all girl school

and I'm glad I did. It was a lot easier to be yourself when you aren't being distracted and worried about impressing the boys.

[snowbear]

3. But don't you think it should be a choice?

:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. I somehow doubt that they would ever be able

to implement something like that across the board.

[Realityhack]

19. Actualy, I if a public school did it you might have no choice...

unless you moved to a diffrent district.

Not sure but its definately posible.

Also the stupid poll question is 100% one way or the other... See my rant in another post.

[TimeChaser]

6. I didn't give a damn what the boys thought.

I'd have felt alone if I was stuck with all girls, the guys were the ones I got along with better.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Outside of school

I mostly hung out with guys too. However, no matter what your POV is, it has been proven that women in single sex schools come out with better leadership skills and participate in class more because there were no males to dominate the class, or biased teachers who tend to call on boys more.

[Realityhack]

17. Sorry but...

thats agragate data, you can't use it to predict individual data points. It means absolutely nothing for a given individual, thats the nature of such data.

For SOME people its the best thing, for SOME its worse. On average its better...in that way... if those studies are correct (I have no reason to doubt them - just trying to be accurate).

[Realityhack]

26. Forgot as well...

Most of that data is from private schools or college/university. In both cases there is no reason to beleive it can be generalized to a normal public k-12 school.
There are also problems with diffrences in school quality. Studies like that are VERY difficult to get sound data out of and are often mis-applied such as predicting elementery school trends from university data. Or comairing general pop. data to private school data.

[kennetha]

22. Boys don't dominate in most circumstances

Ever watch a bunch of elementary school kids?

The boys lag behind the girls. The girls are much more likely to be on task, much more likely to be stroked by the teacher.

You're thinking of colleges and universities, I think, where the male "failures" are screened out. Take the system as a whole, look all around the industrialized world. It's striking how much better girls and women are doing in school as a whole than boys are.

[IndyOp]

48. Actually, boys begin dominating girls at around 18-months of

age and it remains that way for interpersonal interactions for all age groups - on average males are a lot more commanding and demanding in all age groups. In the adult world of work: Male bosses tell people what to do; female bosses tend to make requests and suggestions. Employees snap to attention when a male boss makes a demand because male bosses are more likely than female bosses to fire someone.

Differences between boys and girls show up in elementary school classrooms: Boys are more likely to be called on than girls (because they raise their hands more and talk out of turn to volunteer answers more often). Boys do also get more negative attention as you noted - they more likely to get in trouble, more likely to think teachers hate them.

[TimeChaser]

24. Sorry, but

I'd have gone insane if I was at an all girls school. The girls alienated me and treated me like shit. If you want to send your daughter to a private school, that's fine. But to separate in public school? No.

[Cleita]

50. That's too bad that you don't care to socialize with other

women. I find that I became a feminist because there weren't any boys around to carry the load. In all girls schools we did all the work, setting up the auditorium for assemblies for one and a lot of the heavy lifting the boys would do in a mixed sex situation.

I think it forged good friendships with other women although I am sure I would have preferred a mixed sex education. It just seems more balanced to me.

[TimeChaser]

54. I'd have been friends with them if they'd have let me

There were some girls who wouldn't touch me or go near me. Fortunatly, I met some girls in high school who were the outsiders like I was.

[Cleita]

58. You made the first step.

You are only outsiders if you think you are. The fact that you connected with girls who were also "outsiders" means you made friends with the girls who count.

I was never in the in crowd myself, but I connected with the girls whom I had interests in common. Some have remained friends with me to this day and I am sixty-five years old. I don't know what happened with the in-crowd. I assume they grew old like me.

[Clark2008]

36. But, don't you think, as in sports, that the boys schools

would get all the money and support, while the girls get slim pickings from Title X-type programs?

That's what I'd worry about - and I have a boy.

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. Aren't most sports

segregated already?

[Realityhack]

39. isn't that title IX?

anyway, the thing is IMO its a false dichotomy. If all schools were single sex, it would probobly be a problem... definately for some people but there is a good chance of general issues similar to 'seprate but equal'.
If you ban public single sex ed... well thats not good for a lot of people too.

Its not an either or thing nor is it a good for everyone thing even if the classes are perfect.
It just isn't and its stupid to poll it like it is.

[Clark2008]

43. Yeah.. typo... but you got what I meant.

I realize it's not all good or all bad; however, I would worry that a corporation-driven government hell-bent on cutting funding for everything but the military industrial complex would cut funding for all-girls' schools and not all boys because "bread winning" and "fighting wars" are more important than "home making." I think they would still define men and women that way if we totally separated the sexes.

[lakemonster11]

40. The weird thing is that in my coed public school

the student elected officials were almost entirely female. The president always was. I don't think any of the teachers tended to call on boys more or preferred them in any way. We did have one female teacher who seemed to dislike boys, but no one could ever prove anything.

I know a lot of people who went to single-sex high schools, and they seemed to like it (particularly the girls), but I'm glad I went to a coed school.

[no_hypocrisy]

46. There IS a difference, but it should be a choice, not a mandate.

I went to an independent all-women's liberal arts college in Virginia. I was encouraged to participate and I did get my voice after a couple of semesters. My ideas were academically challenged or appreciated from both classmates and professors.

Versus

Law school. Co-ed. I tried the college tradition of class participation. A couple of times, I knew an answer that nobody else did. When I was recognized, I heard a testerone-powered "Oooooooooh ..." from the back row in mock awe. I didn't get my panties in a bunch, but I did note the difference in the classrooms.

[Cleita]

49. So did I, but I never found the classroom challenging until

I had to compete with the boys in college. This was back in the fifties and believe me they were very chauvinistic as well as chivalrous at times. I wished I had taken those math and science classes with boys in high school. I feel we were cheated because they didn't expect us girls to do anything with math and science so they made them easy for us. I had to work very hard to catch up. This is where the boys were chivalrous. They helped me a lot to get through my freshman year.

[Nobody]

65. This is exactly what I hope doesn't happen

if same-sex classrooms become the norm. Separate but equal usually isn't.

There are some truly excellent same-sex schools out there, but if I had my education to do over again, I wouldn't go to one. The world includes both sexes, we need to acknowledge that.

Incidentally, my own education waspretty bizarre in junior high. My sex ed class especially. Being the only female meant that I was getting the male side of things. Imagine a sex ed class where the only other students are Beavis and Butthead.

[snowbear]

1. BUMP... Lou is counting on you!

:(

[Massacure]

2. Why exactly is it a bad thing?

[Realityhack]

25. because its not right for everyone... only some...

the argument against it is basicaly that it should not be manditory. I don't see anyone calling for never haveing it as an option.

[Massacure]

37. Not being mandatory seems like a simple enough accommodation to me

I agree that kids should have the option. It shouldn't be banned though.

[TimeChaser]

45. ...

*Pokes your avatar*

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Yes and no.

Nothing should be taught in absolutes. We should have variety in this country. Every child develops in their own way.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Lou must be getting bored n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. What, no outsourcing to report on? Has that very real and very pressing

problem been fixed?

[Mend]

8. I voted yes....I am a woman who went to an all women's

college, majoring in chemistry and math, and then onto medical school. I liked having women professors, esp. in science.

[Realityhack]

30. Can we assume you support both options?

Or are you saying everyone should be taught seprately.

Also are you talking college or k-12 as well?

[Mend]

47. I support all options but for me, who wanted to be a

physician in 1964 when it was almost impossible for women to get into a US medical school, a women's college made my majors a lot easier than if I was with more aggressive men. In medical school, I was the only woman in the entire school and did just fine. They told me not to even bother trying to be a vet, that's the way it was in the good old days for women.

[LSdemocrat]

I think it should be an option for people

I could imagine that some people would thrive in a same-sex environment, while others wouldn't.

[Realityhack]

29. Ding!!

Thats what the data would indicate.

See my rant on false dichotomies below.

[LSK]

9. why would he ask that?

[kennetha]

10. Not Dark ages.

Actually, I think it's BOYS who suffer more, especially in elementary school years, when boys and girls are taught together.

Boys way underperform girls in elementary, high school and even colleges. This is happening around the industrialized world. Significantly more boys drop out. Significantly more boys repeat grades. Repeating a grade in elementary school is the single biggest predictor of whether a kid will finish high school Repeat one grade, and you increase your chances of dropping out by 20%. Repeat 2 grades and you double your chances of dropping out. And again, it's mostly boys who suffer. Elementary school as currently taught in this country is mostly made for girls. So I think all boys schools that taught to the distinctive learning styles of boys would save lots of boys.

Again, look at the colleges and universities around the industrialized world. Boys are falling way behind. What seems to blind people to this fact is the fact that the boys who do well end up doing very well. But that's letting the top speak for the whole.

[Realityhack]

16. Some of that is social factors as well.

Yes they have diffrent larning styles but there are also very diffrent social preasures etc.

[Sandpiper]

31. Women now account for 57% of College Students nationwide

Despite the fact that there are more males age 18-24 (15 million) than females (14.2 million).

And at the public school level, girls consistently outperform boys in reading and writing at the elementary, middle school, and high school level.

So, I'm with you. If this was ever done, it should be for the sake of the boys, who are increasingly on the short end of a widening achievement gap.

[longship]

11. Up to the school, not the district, not the state, not the Feds.

nt

[Realityhack]

14. IMO...

if a school decides to do that (public) the parents should have the option of a diffrent school if they so chose.

Just my opinion but I don't think being in a certain school district should dictate that.

I can understand the alternate argument though as that would make it quite hard and you could say... well what about all the other choices, etc.

But I still feel that particular choice should not be something you can't easily opt out of.

For private schools... well obviously its up to them. This can be a good or bad thing depending upon the student and lots of other factors. Its by no means a universal.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Do you think that should work both ways?

Should parents be able to opt for a single-sex public school instead of a mixed one?

It seems to me fairly self evident that there are pros and cons to either approach, and that legally prohibiting either is absurd.

[Realityhack]

27. I wouldn't legaly prohibit either...

but I do not think you should force every comunity to start a seperate all girls and all boys program.

If they want to they should have every right to. But again I don't think they should be able to make it your only coice.

That would also alivate some of the conserns people have with 'seprate but equal' issues.

If a school system wants to have an 'art magnet school' I say go for it... if they wan't to make it the only choice... not sure (a lot depends upon exact details obviously).
I am kindof thinking the same thing here. I think makeing it manditory for all is a very dangerous step and open to a HUGE factor of posible corruption by less than savory infulences.

[Realityhack]

12. As usual sound bite retarded false dichotomies...

screw the debate completely.

Frankly anyone with a clue is going to tell you its good for some and not for others. A lot depends upon the individuals personality and learning style etc. There will also be diffrences at diffrent ages for some individuals as to wither it is the best choice based on 'where they are' at any given time.

This is like asking should children be home-schoold
yes
no

Its a false dicotomy from the start so nothing based on it can ever be logicaly sound. This is probobly the most pervasant logical error in main stream political discussions. It seems to me that our system must at some point be severely failing in teaching this concept. There are questions that are dichotomys but most political questions are not and deliberately frameing them as such is simply intelectualy bankrupt at best and often is often an intentional underhanded and intelectualy dishonest political tactic.
</rant>

[nini]

15. Where the hell did this come from?

These freaking people are really going insane.. or just showing it.

[geniph]

18. Sure, separate but equal works SO WELL

when it's mandated.

:sarcasm:

Look, it's cool to have some single-sex classes/schools, what have you - what would be bad is to mandate that ALL schools be single-sex. Firstly, some kids actually do better when exposed to conditions closer to actual society, and secondly, someone would inevitably end up with substandard schools and teachers.

Separate but equal doesn't work too well with humans.

[kennetha]

32. Blinders on

think you've got ideological blinders on. I think they prevent you from seeing that boys, taken as a whole, are not thriving.

I'm a feminist. Don't get me wrong. But you shouldn't let your feminism blind you to the reality of life for boys (and men) but right now I'm just talking about boys. Boys who succeed do very well. But lots and lots of boys don't succeed in school. A hugely disproportionate share of school failures are boys.

We haven't really given that very much thought. I think partly because we've been much more concerned with making progress for women and girls.

But the two things aren't incompatible. We can look both at the particular situations of boys and men and at the particular situations of girls and women and try to address both.

[Realityhack]

34. There are definate dangers to making it the only option

If it was manditory it could result quite easily in abuse.

If its optional it could be a great thing for many people. Its not right for everyone... just like everything else.

[kennetha]

35. I agree Reality Check

I agree with you. People are too into false dichotomies. I think ideology often blinds people to data -- both people on the left and the right suffer this malady

[Realityhack]

42. Thanks! Its good to know I am not the only one.

IMO this is a huge problem on both sides. It limmits the debate and makes it imposible to come to a reasonable conseses or make informed decisions.

False dichotomies are one of my largest pet peives.

Gota take off now. But thanks again. I really hate feeling like I am the only one who spots that kind of thing, a lot of people here do and that makes me feel much better.

[countingbluecars]

21. Just great!

And next it will be separate schools for boys and girls. Then watch how already limited resources are doled out.

[pennylane100]

28. I think that voluntary separate classes may be OK

It might help girls bridge the gap in science and technology.

I would like to see equal numbers of male and female students in all the engineering and computer classes in colleges. These are the careers that offer the best paid jobs and and women should get a share of them. If it takes seperating the sexes through school, I think it would be worth it.

[texpatriot2004]

33. keep it up nm

[Enraged_Ape]

41. Oh, PUH-LEEZE, this is freakin' RIDICULOUS

I first fell in love on the first day of first grade, with the girl that sat right in front of me. Oh, man, she was beautiful. For at least two years, she was the SOLE reason I ever wanted to come to class!!

By segregating students by sex, does Lou take into account the desires of the little homosexual boys and girls who might be "distracted" by those in their same gender group?

This is all so completely idiotic. Is Bush in such trouble that television "news" has been reduced to this?

[mandyky]

62. First of all the school mentioned in the report

did not wanna "segregate" the entire school, just certain classes that required more concentration. It wasn't a whole school, just certain ages - I would assume this was middle or high school age children.

The report was actually newsworthy.

[laureloak]

44. Yes. The kids will love it that way. n/t

[Walt Starr]

51. I voted yes because I believe they should be seperated

My reasoning?

I'm in process to adopt a girl from China and studies have shown that all other things being equal, in a class of mixed sexes regardless of the sex of the teacher, boys get more attention than girls.

I'd rather my daughter get a quality education.

[BlueIris]

59. Walt Starr! Congratulations on your expanding family!

As a woman, I would have preferred that I be protected from immature, sexist young men harassing me in particularly math and science classes. I went to an excellent public high school and was in advanced courses for everything--but our teachers declined to "interfere" in abusive interpersonal situations among students for various reasons. Single sex classrooms would have been a nice, reasonably safe haven for me to study in peace.

[Walt Starr]

64. I think, though, that there should be one class where it's mixed

But few people would be up for a Citizenship class.

[FreedomAngel82]

52. I can't believe he's even asking this nonsense

Yes 42%

1166 votes
No 58%

1590 votes
Total: 2756 votes at 9:42pm est

[Mikimouse]

53. Interesting tha the Freeps support this now, as they were ...

shrieking about the same issue when Mary Daly did it at BC. Just sayin'.

[PassingFair]

55. And I thought that Brown vs. Board of Education

settled all of this "separate but equal" bullshit!

I notice that all of the stunning success stories of women of same-sex schools are FROM women of same-sex schools! Quel surprise!

Parochial school graduates say the same thing about their "superior" education vs. public school.

Parents who can afford to send their kids to private schools have better achieving kids, period.

[BlueIris]

56. Lou Dobbs has lost his mind.

Seriously. And I use to be a fan. And I still believe that every once in a while, he makes a valid point about a social or public policy issue which is insightful and informative. But this? Is insane. These kinds of extreme statements have been coming out of his mouth for months. The man needs a sabatical. Possibly an intervention.

[mandyky]

63. Did you actually see the report?

We wasn't advocating anything, although it was obvious he thought it was dumb to separate by gender. This policy is actually happening in a school here in the good old US of A.

[carolinalady]

57. Even though I went to public school--I do not think that might be

a bad idea. Maybe it would eliminate some stereo-typing and each sex would get more encouragement in areas they are traditionally ignored.
Also- currently being the volunteer coordinator in a middle school, I see alot of intense boyfriend girlfriend stuff going on that is definitely distracting to the learning environment. At any rate wouldn't it be great if our public system offered different types of schools and parents got to pick? I am not dissing the ps system- 3 generations of teachers in my family, but I wish we would be more innovative.

[Raiden]

60. What about the homosexual students??

I think it's a bad idea and it sounds like segregation

[NMMNG]

61. But won't separating them lead to *gasp* HOMOSEXUALITY???

I mean, if girls and boys aren't able to develop romantic feelings for each other in a mixed-gender classroom, they will necessarily turn to the same gender to assuage their raging hormones. :eyes: :rofl:


BTW, the poll is now 60%no, 40% yes.