Manner's question - how badly did I frack up - lunch with fundies.

[DanCa]

Okay everybody this happened two hours ago but I am still angry.
As you may or may not know every monday wenseday and Friday I go for physical therapy for parkinson's . Since I can't drive my mom usually takes me. Anyhow I guess she decided it would be nice to treat my sister selene and her priest to lunch.
So after the lunch begins with a loud saying of grace, selene and the preacher start hammering Dems. They start saying things so terrible i dont want to repeat it. And of course Senator Clinton bashng was among them. So I just kept my mouth shut trying not to get caught up in all the bs when at the end of the meal they start going on how disability checks should be repealled and people should be able to pull themselves up by the boot straps.
Amyhow as they leave the table (without paying mind you) I said tell me father, "How christian is it to out a cia agent?" Both of them just looked at me and walked away. Then I just got yelled at for interfering in other peoples conversation and not respecting religious by my mom. Note my is a life long democrat.
Anyhow I was wondering if I am totally in the wrong, and how do you guys handle it when people in public start trashin our party. I really wish I was in a postion to leave, I hate being dependent on people for transportation. Anyhow thanks for letting me vent, DU, you guys are the best.
:hug:

[LiberalVoice]

1. Dont listen to anyone when they tell you not to speak up.

Fuck being nice. If someone is a hypocrite you shouldn't be made to feel bad about telling them that to their face. You did the right thing and kudos to you. :) Hope you are feeling well.

LV

[stepnw1f]

2. Hiding Behind Religion

A disgusting ploy... You had every right to get pissed. It's a good thing I wasn't there.

[tk2kewl]

3. If anyone was impolite I think it was your sister and the hypocrite

[Sanity Claws]

4. Amazing that you remained quiet as long as you did

Their remark about disability checks is amazingly insensitive and aimed at hurting you. (I assume they know that you have Parkinson's) Maybe the good part of the confrontation is that you will be spared having lunch with those two again.

[DanCa]

5. Thanks, I really try to stay out of other peoples conversations

But I felt that several comments were aimmed at me directly. Hopefuuly this wont happen again..

[northzax]

6. simply say "I'm sorry, I prefer not to discuss politics or religion

in the presence of ladies, as both are impolite."

[Plaid Adder]

7. In matters such as these, I calculate the ST:SR ratio.

I came up with this as a way of dealing with fights with my mother, but it applies equally well to a situation in which you are trapped in a social interaction with people who are being idiots:

ST:SR stands for Stand Taken: Shit Received. If the ST value is greater than the SR value, then you speak up. If not, you suck it up, or if you are religious, offer it up, and save your energy to rant another day. The ST value is determined by thinking about what you gain by speaking up; the SR value is determined by thinking about what you will have to put up with if you do. At this point in the Bush administration's self-immolation, I think the ST value is pretty high, and the SR value is dropping, so I would say the ratio was favorable for you.

BUT, remember: etiquette is a two-way street. That crack about disability checks was unbelievably crass in front of someone who has a debilitating and incurable medical condition. Someone who has no respect for your feelings does not deserve to have their own respected, whether they are your mother or a priest or whatever. If I had been in your situation and the priest had started down the homophobia track, I probably would ahve gotten into it with him, with probably unpleasant results.

Good luck,

The Plaid Adder

[Greybnk48]

8. Way to go DanCa!!

Don't give these creeps a pass. We did that for too long and look where we are today. You were not rude. They were rude for having that converstion at lunch to begin with. Especially with someone at the table that may need financial help. How awful, and good for you for not taking it.

[swimboy]

9. You were a model of restraint, if you ask me.

If you are having lunch at a table for four and the understanding is that one member of the party is not to join the discussion they are very much in the wrong to enforce your exclusion. I've seen this sort of thing in my family. The most important thing is to seem agreeable: therefore, the person who speaks first cannot be engaged on their topic, let alone contradicted.

Have you heard of ITTYTWIT? It stands for I think that you think what I think. That's how stupid people are able to make loud declarations as fact and then be taken aback to the point of offense when someone offers even the meekest response.

Be polite, be respectful as you can, but it's either conversation or it's not. If it is conversation, all are equally entitled to participate. If it's a lecture or speaking event, let someone know you didn't buy a ticket and you want to get out of there.

And it was a little fuckin' late for your mother to play the religion card!

Peace and strength, man. And courage to speak up as you did! :yourock: :headbang:

[onecent]

10. I'm proud of you. I'm going to speak up more and more because

I realized there were times (in my job) that I didn't speak up when the elections were going on...NOW I am not as quiet. IF I think someone is for * I purposely speak up against *....(although still in a nice way....still toooo nice)..but I am getting bolder...and I like the new bold me.

Keep up the good work. These 'evangelist' type really get me going the most. I have a neighbor across the street with 3 college age sons. I just wanted to keep asking him when all 3 were going to enlist.

[peacetalksforall]

11. Pardon my cynicism, but it could have been worse - they could have

gone into a rant about the horror of using stem cells to cure dieseases. (I hope you get a tiny laugh from their ridiculousness). I'm so sorry you had to put up with it. I hope I won't cross lines if I say that you were subjected to two very crass and inconsiderate people, even if one of them is your sister.

IMO, no priest should be entering into politics to that degree.

I think you should talk to your Mom and tell her that the fair thing to do is to respect your opposing opinions by making arrangements not to talk politics in similar situations. Ask her for her cooperation in steering the conversations away from it. Ask her if she will help. Try to get her to say yes.

I think a lot of people only want to enter into the conversations for the audience. We are too set in our beliefs by now. However, when they are forced to listen only as in listening to the radio or tv, they learn more. Unfortunately, msm only feeds them. MSM can be considered the right wing's greatest success and the country's worst disaster.

Hopefully, events to come will convert even more of them. The pseudo religious will be the last to wake up, however.

Stay strong and brave. Thanks for sharing with us.

[DanCa]

14. Thank you all for your thoughtful replies

Usually she blows up at me once a month this was something new.
It's nice knowing that you guys have my back. :toast:

[choicevoice]

12. I remained politely silent when faced with stupidity/ignorance too long

I have found that saying nothing gives them license to continue to spew their ignorance and or stupidity with increasing arrogance and a holier than thou attitude all the while thinking they are morally superior. The key for me in these situations, and there are many, is to very calmly and politely state my views and objections to their statements with facts that they are welcome to try to disprove or refute. Never allow them to ruffle your feathers. Remain calm with an smile on your face and an expression that shows pity for their lack of knowledge on the subject. This usually pisses them off to the point that their heads explode and they make an ass out of themselves. Any onlookers see me calm and concerned and the other asshole ranting and usually getting up and leaving in a huff.

[MadHound]

13. Frankly I think that you showed great restraint friend

I would have been all over them like a pit bull on raw meat within a minute of their starting this crap, especially when they started harping on pulling disability checks. I'm polite, quiet and don't yell, but I let fools like that have it with both barrels.

[spuddonna]

15. You showed a lot more restraint than I would have!!

Your sister and the priest were GUESTS of your mom and how did they behave as said guests? By going off on political rants and making thinly veiled cracks at you and other disabled people! :grr:

Not only were they callous and rude, but your mom is sadly mistaken. You don't 'disrespect' priests by disagreeing with them; they aren't the Pope, and they sure as heck aren't infallible!

And as for 'interfering in their conversation', if you are at the same table as they were, and you add your two cents, how does that qualify as 'interfering'?! It's not like they were having a secret conversation in their own booth!

The only disrespect shown today was towards you and your mother. :(

[Cha]

16. Was that the same priest who

was smoking and you had an encounter with him?

THey are the rude ones..who are totally delusional, by the way.

It's really treason to out an undercover CIA agent and the company Jennings Brewster.

[rucky]

17. they can go fuck themselves

[Book Lover]

18. An RC priest said that disability checks should be stopped?

He should turn in his collar.