Evil Hillary

[BL611]

Just for fun I pulled up that shill Hillary's interest group ratings

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can-id=wny99268



A brief list of highlights

ADA- 95%

AFL-CIO-100%

American Public Health Assoiciation-100%

NARAL-100%

Stupid Hillary, I just pray she doesn't become President

This is FreeRepublic isn't it????(I just googled Hillary bashing and posted on the first thing that came up...)

[KingFlorez]

1. What an anti-american, anti-religion record!

We're headed towards communism if she's elected! :sarcasm:

[purduejake]

3. Those records are good...

But I don't like her for many other reasons such as doing little to nothing to protect our voting system and for her stance against gay equality. There are greater evils, but unfortunately for her and perhaps the Democratic party, the lesser of two evils is never getting my vote again.

[BL611]

6. Stance on gay equality...

Human Rights Campaign-88%.....

[purduejake]

14. Exactly...

Not exactly treating people equally, is she? Please tell me her stance on gay marriage for those of us who don't know.

edit: I realize some may think "88%! That's great!" Unfortunately, if you don't want gay marriage to exist, you are discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation. That means everything from adoption to making decisions for an ill loved one are at risk for gay people. Sorry, 88% is not a passing grade in this case.

[BL611]

22. 88% is not a passing grade

Your words, not mine, I'm sure President Romney will be much more sympathetic to your plight...

[purduejake]

26. I never backed away from my words.

And the scare tactics of having a worse evil don't work on me anymore. I voted for Kerry and he couldn't even fight for the presidency he won. I looked the other way on his disapproval of gay marriages. I still got screwed.

[firefox]

13. Yeap. Lost me at drug warrior.

But, what gets me is why is Hillary so special? We have not even had the 2006 elections and we have all of this Hillary crap over and over. But what bill has she introduced that made a statement for change besides 80,000 more troops for Iraq?

[BL611]

16. Nothing to protect our voting system...

S.405(109th session of congress)-A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.

Sponsor- Senator Clinton, Hillary Rodham

[purduejake]

21. I believe I said "...little to nothing..."

Did her vote cause any change to the voting system? Did she stand with Barbara Boxer when it counted? No.

[BL611]

27. No not her vote, the bill she SPONSORED...

I'm sorry if her magical powers could not get the bill passed, how many voting reform bills has Mrs. Boxer passed lets see..

[purduejake]

35. Did Hillary stand against the fraudulent vote or not?

Focus on the point please. I believe Senator Boxer was alone in the Senate when she refused to accept the results.

[BL611]

51. Alright if you are not going to vote for Hillary

because you think Kerry won Ohio I understand you may take your tinfoil hat elsewhere. If you want to talk about remedying inconsistency's, again Hillary WROTE a BILL to do just that...

[purduejake]

56. She did not oppose the fraudulent vote.

What do the motions of sponsoring something mean when you go ahead and support a vote you know is fraudulent?

And if you don't think there are serious inconsistencies with the votes, perhaps you need to spend more time here. The suggestion that people leave this board because you don't like what they have to say is wrong.

[longship]

2. Don't forget.

====> Wants to increase troop strength in Iraq. <====

[BL611]

4. OMG!!!!Someone call ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[longship]

37. Well, over 60% now oppose the war in Iraq

and over 50% say it was a mistake to go in there.

I would think that increasing US troop strength there might not be a good stance to take. The people in the US (and all over the rest of the world) are fairly plainly saying "get out as soon as possible".

Asking for more troops, or taking a stance to "win" in Iraq, is just too much like Viet Nam in 1967-68. It got a lot, lot worse there before we extricated ourselves. It was a position that ended up destroying two presidencies. If Hillary would go into office with this same position I cannot, and will not, support her.

[BL611]

66. If you want to get out ASAP

bringing in more troops now to get the region stabilized and train the Iraqi forces ASAP is a perfectly reasonable way to go, Vietnam was a different war, with a different situation...

[longship]

69. She hasn't fleshed out a position as of yet.

But increasing troop strength is not a good omen to me.

I could support her in a general election only if she describes such a plan as you describe in some detail. UN or arab involvement is called for here. Also, a deadline is manditory. Short of something along these lines I'm not sure I could even vote for her.

A good Iraq plan from Hillary could get me to vote for her in the general election, but I'd never vote for her, or even support her, in a primary. I don't at all like her. (N.B., I do not hate her, though.)

[BL611]

73. The odds are

Bush will have a "plan" in place by 2008, the war is probably not going to be a huge election issue by then. If you don't vote for her because your holding a grudge on the war position, who are you hurting?

[KingFlorez]

7. That's my biggest problem with her

[Selatius]

5. Her economic positions make me question her faith to the American worker

The DLC is all over this person, and I don't trust the DLC because of the unusually large amount of corporate special interest money that fuels the DLC. Free trade in its current form is just a race to the bottom for the workers of the world.

[BL611]

8. Yes after all her AFL-CIO rating

is a paltry 100%, clearly she is anti worker, who's next, this is fun!

[Selatius]

9. Yes, and the AFL-CIO isn't exactly doing so well

Notice that giant split several weeks back when several unions broke away?

[BL611]

11. I didn't know they broke over their support of Hillary

Thats very interesting, its too bad Hillary has been endorsed by SEIU and UNITE HERE though..Maybe the IWW doesn't like Hillary, her and her stupid collective bargining...

[Selatius]

17. Who here said they broke because of Hillary?

[BL611]

25. Well then what was the point of mentioning

the break up????Are you saying that the change to win coalition is against Hillary(which its not)????If not its irrelevant.

[Selatius]

33. Point is why should I rely on this organization's word...

That now only represents 10 percent of the work force?

[BL611]

45. Yes they are a republican front organization

I don't know what else to say, I see that chomsky has done you well...

[Selatius]

49. Nice facetious response

Thanks for not trying, and have a nice day. :)

[BL611]

12. Self Delete

Double Post, must have been Hillary and her corporate cronies trying to keep me down!!

[sadiesworld]

71. Hillary has been running for President since she first

stepped onto the Senate floor. Do you REALLY think she would oppose job killing trade agreements if elected/selected President? She does what is politically expedient. At least Kerry had the decency to admit that he would have voted for CAFTA if some provisions had been tweaked.

Hillary as a pro-labor progressive? :rofl:

[BL611]

72. I'm glad the AFL-CIO

amuse you so much, since you obviously are an expert at what goes on in Hillary's mind, and since you know everything she does is for "political expediency" maybe you would like to tell me why it would become less "expedient" for her to support the same labor initiative's shes been for her entire political career once she becomes President?

[sadiesworld]

79. As I said

Hillary has been running for POTUS since elected to the Senate-I don't find her votes to be particularly enlightening. I never accused the woman of being stupid. Now if you can find some documentation of her being at odds with her husband over free trade and/or an unequivocable statement that she opposes our current trade policies, I'm all ears.

I'll be waiting.

edit to add: Would that be "all eyes"? :shrug:

[BL611]

81. Nea on CAFTA

What else do you want? She (nor Bill) can go back in time and change NAFTA and quite honestly NAFTA hasn't done as much harm as people try to put on it. Being anti-free trade is pointless and futile trying, protectionism is not the answer structuring free trade in a way in which American workers can compete is, thats easier said then done, but here husband has had more ideas on how do it then most.

[KingFlorez]

10. The Freepers hate her with a passion

So that means she's doing something right

[purduejake]

29. So do some liberals. I think that counts for something.

[BL611]

34. Liberal....

Sounds vaguely familiar, you mean like new deal consensus building, attacking the far left with the same fervency that you attack the right, finletter group that type of thing?

[purduejake]

36. exactly

[leeroysphitz]

15. Here's one you missed...

CNN.com - Hillary Clinton: No regret on Iraq vote

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for Senator Clinton in a General Election but you must admit that this will be a HUGH black mark against her or any other candidate in 08'. It may be that an anti-war stance with a credible record to back it up will be a prerequisite in the next election. How will she overcome this? Don't flame me, I'd like to hear your answer.


sp

[purduejake]

18. Here we are again...

debating about voting for somebody who is Republican-lite. Maybe she's not quite that bad, but she does support some horrible things and I don't think of her as somebody who can even begin to turn this country around.

[BL611]

23. Please look at the OP

and tell me what about her is Republican lite???

[purduejake]

28. Uh, look at the post above mine...

she voted for war and wants more troops sent over. Sounds pretty republican to me.

[BL611]

30. So did John Kerry

another Republican obviously...

[purduejake]

31. Yea he did, and my vote for him was a mistake.

Look at the context... they voted with the republicans on those issues.

[LittleClarkie]

39. Who do you wish you'd voted for instead

I'm assuming that since you say your vote for Kerry was a mistake, then you wish you voted for (blank) instead. Or stayed home?

[purduejake]

40. Green Party - Cobb

[LittleClarkie]

42. I on the other hand am happy I voted for Kerry

and would do it again. I may not always agree with him. But I see a man of integrity there.

[purduejake]

48. I have nothing against people who voted for him...

even if they are glad they did. Most of them have their hearts in the right place... we just differ when it comes to the person we think can best reach goals we probably have in common.

[purduejake]

32. You going to respond to my rebuttals...

or keep ignoring them and bringing up another distraction for me to address?

[BL611]

41. Lets take a look at your "rebuttals"

and my "non responses"

Rebuttal:Hillary's anti gay
response: Hillary has an 88% rating from HRC
Rebuttal:88% is not good enough

Rebuttal:Hillary hasn't addressed voting reform
Response: Hillary sponsored a bill in the last session of congress that would address just that
Rebuttal: So? I like Barbra Boxer

Rebuttal: Hillary voted for the "war", which means she's a Republican
Response: The Democratic nominee for President voted for the "war" too...
Rebuttal:Yeah I'm sorry I voted for the Democrat he's a Republican too

:wtf:

[purduejake]

43. You're good at taking things out of context

edit:

To get to my point, please defend her position on gay marriages, her vote for the war, etc.

[BL611]

47. Explain what is out of context

Our exchanges are above for all to see....

[purduejake]

50. Defend her positions...

my request is above for all to see.

[BL611]

53. I did...

as is also above for all to see. If you have anything more specific to ask, go ahead.

[purduejake]

54. No you didn't.

Why is it okay to discriminate against GLBT people and have an 88% rating?

[BL611]

57. Well if you think she is discriminating against GLBT

when the predominate GLBT organization gives her an 88% rating, what do you want me to say?

[purduejake]

58. That I am right.

I believe a 100% rating is for people who DON'T discriminate.

edit: for those who don't get it, if somebody does not have 100% it means they support something that is discriminatory against GLBT people.

[BL611]

61. BREAKING: BARBARA BOXER IS A HOMOPHOBE!!!!

Boxer HRC rating 88%!!!!!!She's just as hateful as Clinton!!!!!

[purduejake]

62. Really? Did she support a fraudulent vote?

Again, you lost focus on the point. Instead of defending a position, you changed the subject to Boxer.

[BL611]

63. Umm no

we were discussing Hillary's 88%HRC rating, you said people who don't discriminate get a 100%, so I'm asking you does Boxer discriminate against GLBT, if you will concede she does we will consider that issue solved and we can then move on to the voting fraud issue.

[purduejake]

64. It is not a concession...

because I never argued that Boxer did not discriminate. Obviously she does if she only has an 88%.

I am not going to debate with somebody who keeps on changing the subject and then acting like I said stuff I didn't. It's nothing but a distraction from the points you cannot defend. It's frustrating, counterproductive, and not what I am here for. I'd be more than happy to debate with you in another discussion, but I've had it for tonight. Take care.

[BL611]

65. Have a nice night.

[LittleClarkie]

19. Here's an interesting paragraph from that article

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

[leeroysphitz]

44. She sounds like she's sincerely doing her best

to ride the fence. I would just like a candidate that could unequivocally denounce the war as well as a myriad of other criminal RW policies. I'm not saying Senator Clinton doesn't have a lot of credibility on a wide range of issues but I'm telling you that when it comes time to vote in the primaries a lot of people just might remember who voted for what and we all KNOW that the repukes aren't going to forget either... (they've already got the talking points drafted.)

[BL611]

46. Unequivocally denoucing the war

doesn't do shit, you can ethier look at what candidates rhetoric gives you the most emotional satisfaction, or whose ACTUAL VOTES are doing the most to try to actually HELP PEOPLE.

[purduejake]

52. I believe her ACTUAL VOTE

Sent a lot of people into harms way.

[BL611]

55. No

Bush not allowing the inspectors to finish their job sent a lot of people into harms way, if you would like to get the records for the Senate hearings and see what she actually advocated as a process for dealing with Iraq, please....

[purduejake]

59. I agree that ultimately it falls on his shoulders...

But I knew better than to trust him. Why didn't Hillary?

[BL611]

67. She had to make a difficult decision

Saddam was not letting the inspectors do their job, Hillary decided she needed to give Bush the power to go to the UN backed by Congressional power, her vote had the desired effect, the inspectors got back in, Bush then abused the power he was given. You disagree with the vote, fine. not your first choice for president, fine too. Its the "she's a republican lite" BS I have the problem with (not saying that is what you said, but it is the attitude of many around here, including on this thread).

[leeroysphitz]

70. Senator Clinton's vote has sure "helped" 2000 soldiers

and their families.

[BL611]

20. OK

I think John Kerry did a very good job of articulating the position on why someone would vote for the war. If you think it is a political liability, are you expecting the Republicans to run an anti war candidate?

[purduejake]

24. I think the problem we have is...

That an incredible number of Americans think the war was a BAD idea and that we shouldn't have gone in. That's where the liability is. What would inspire a democratic somebody to go out and vote for somebody who helped get the country into the situation it is today?

[leeroysphitz]

38. No I'm PRAYING that the democrats will....

And without such glaring liabilities as having VOTED FOR THE WAR. Nothing I've heard or read in any way mitigates that irrefutable little factoid.

I and many others want an ANTI-WAR candidate. I voted for John Kerry. I supported him but I never considered him to be an ANTI-WAR candidate (not in 2004 anyhow) and I'm just wondering how Senator Clinton could hope to be seen as one.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. DLCHillary still supports the war she voted for.

Hopefully, the progressives of NY will throw her out in 2006.

[BL611]

68. Yes Progressives for Pirro...

[marions ghost]

74. Right-wingers want Hillary to run

because they know they can beat her. I'm not a Hillary basher, but practically speaking she's just not a viable candidate in the current climate. Fugeddaboutit.

[BL611]

75. Which RWers??

NR's current issue is a cover story trying to tear her down, that doesn't seem like them wanting her to run....

[marions ghost]

80. the RW Manipulators want her to run

so they can tear her down even more and solidify the base to defeat her. Hillary = Satan. Gotta rally to defeat Satan. Where's the contradiction?

[HughBeaumont]

76. Praise her all you want, she wouldn't turn a DAMNED red state . . .

and the criminals wouldn't even need to vote-fraud her either like they did with Gore and Kerry.

She's also pro-offshoring. Pro offshoring isn't pro-worker, last I checked.

End the political monarchies already.

[golfaddict]

77. She scares me...

I feel she will say one thing to a group of constituents, and then turn around and tell another to a different group. Not a true flip flop like Kerry was accused of, but playing to the audience.

[Beelzebud]

78. Sorry. But I want Change. 2 families for 20 years is unacceptable.