O'Donnel:"Prediction: at least three high level 'Bushies indicted

[dbeach]

"If Karl Rove's lawyer, Bob Luskin, is still as easy to read as he has been since I broke the story that his client was Matt Cooper's source, then we now know that Rove has received a target letter from Patrick Fitzgerald. How do we know it? Luskin refuses to deny it.


Fitzgerald does not have to send Rove or anyone else a target letter before indicting him. The only reason to send target letters now is that Fitzgerald believes one or more of his targets will flip and become a prosecution witness at the pre-indictment stage. A veteran prosecutor told me, "If Fitzgerald is sending target letters at the end of his investigation, those are just invitations to come in and work out a deal."

Prosecutors prefer pre-indictment plea bargaining to post-indictment because they have more to offer you, like not being indicted at all or downgrading your status to unindicted co-conspirator. And pre-indictment plea bargaining can greatly enrich the indictments that the prosecutor then obtains. If, for example, Fitzgerald has a weak case against, say, Scooter Libby, imagine how much Rove's cooperation might strengthen that case.

If no one RSVPs to Fitzgerald's invitations, look for indictments as early as next week. If anyone does sit down with Fitzgerald, he will probably have to move to extend the grand jury, which now has only thirteen working days left in its term.

Prediction: at least three high level Bush Administration personnel indicted and possibly one or more very high level unindicted co-conspirators."

[boardwalk]

1. AP says Rove never got a target letter according to Luskin today.

Rove offered in July to return to the grand jury for additional testimony and Fitzgerald accepted that offer Friday after taking grand jury testimony from the formerly jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller.

Before accepting the offer, Fitzgerald sent correspondence to Rove's legal team making clear that there was no guarantee he wouldn't be indicted at a later point as required by the rules.

Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, said Thursday he would not comment on any ongoing discussion he has had with Fitzgerald's office but that he has been assured no decisions on charges have been made. Rove would first have to receive what is known as a target letter if he is about to be indicted.

"I can say categorically that Karl has not received a target letter from the special counsel. The special counsel has confirmed that he has not made any charging decisions in respect to Karl," Luskin said.

He said that Rove "continues to be cooperative voluntarily" with the special counsel investigation and "beyond that, any communication I have or may have in the future are going to be treated as completely confidential."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[MidwestTransplant]

4. Probably got a call that one was on the way so he decided

to testify because he had nothing to lose. Probably won't say anything different from what he said. I just want to see this guy frog marched!

[louis-t]

7. AGGGGH! THAT'S L-O-S-E!

sorry.

[MidwestTransplant]

9. Um I have no idea what you are talking about

;)

[louis-t]

12. Heh-heh. Made me look.

And>>>>>:rofl:

[demobabe]

17. Weasel words

"'I can say categorically that Karl has not received a target letter from the special counsel. The special counsel has confirmed that he has not made any charging decisions in respect to Karl,' Luskin said."

So as I read this, you don't have to get a letter to be a target. They're just negotiating whether or not to charge Karl based on what he says when he "voluntarily testifies."

[Skittles]

45. link?

yeah, I'm sure Rove was just chomping at the bit to talk to the Grand Jury again

[mattclearing]

2. You reading that last line the way I am?

"Very high level unindicted co-conspirators" = Bush/Cheney

[Stand and Fight]

11. That's the way I read it, tasteblind.

I can only hope, but it seems they're going to get away with this.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. I've said it before and I'll say it again

Cheney will be named as an unindicted co-conspirator, with a report sent by Fitzgerald to the House to begin impeachment proceedings.

Rove's ass on the line only increases the probability.

[dbeach]

28. nice insight

I am too out there..now a lil fun after all this gloom and doom

they ain't in prison stripes yet BUT this is a rollickin good time.

NOW if Sauron Cheney nukes New England then we know bushco did it..

I admit that I do LOVE happy endings

[Tace]

3. Here's A Link To The O'Donnell Story On Hufftington Post

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/plamegate-the-next-step_b_8447.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. hmmm why is this giving a slightly ahem Nixonian odor?

Hmm wonder why?

Oh yes Nixon was also an un indicted co conspirator, no wonder george is reaching for the Jim Bean... oh and one more thing... who has the football? It is a fact that in the final days Kissinger placed a call to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, that if Nixon lost it, and ordered a nuclear attack... to ahem, call him first.

Does this administration have somebody willing to play the same role?

[Quixote1818]

6. If the 22 indictments holds true

that would be seven indictments a piece. That seems a bit much per person. I am thinking it will be more than three people.

[kestrel91316]

43. My instincts tell me it's seven people with 3 indictments each ...........

maybe perjury/conspiracy/espionage x 7, plus somebody gets an extra?

[Quixote1818]

47. That sounds about right

If it really is 22 indictments. If not then O'Donnell is probably right.

[louis-t]

8. " If, for example, Fitzgerald has a weak case against"

I sure hope they bargain to indict "up" instead of "down".

[henslee]

10. Happy Happy Joy Joy.

[seemslikeadream]

13. It's Fitzmas time in the city

Silver bells, silver bells
It's Fitzmas time in the city
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring
Soon it will be Fitzmas day

City courtroom, busy courtrooms
Dressed in judicial style
In the air
There's a feeling of Fitzmas

Du'ers laughing
Freepers passing
Meeting smile after smile
And on ev'ry street corner you'll hear

Silver bells, silver bells
It's Fitzmas time in the city
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring
Soon it will be Fitzmas day

Strings of street lights
Even stop lights
Blink a bright red and green
As the crooks rush to jail with their treason

Hear the traitors crunch
See the freepers in a bunch
This is Fitzgeralds big scene
And above all this bustle
You'll hear

Silver bells, silver bells
It's Fitzmas time in the city
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring
Soon it will be Fitzmas day

Silver bells, silver bells
It's Fitzmas time in the city
Ring-a-ling, hear them ring
Soon it will be Fitzmas day...

[marions ghost]

14. now

thats what I call confidence

[catmandu57]

16. Love it love it love it

Seemslikeadream you've made my afternoon.

[crispini]

18. ROFL! That's awesome!

[Duncan Grant]

20. LMAO!

:thumbsup: :rofl:

[Octafish]

23. Sniff.

Hear them sing.

[dbeach]

27. hear them sing.ring a ding

its Fitzmas time everywhere..

Dat some big fish ya got caught there lil one..

TASTY I BET!!!

[crispini]

29. Ok, you gave me the idea for this one.

It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas
Everywhere you go.
Who's gonna do five-or-ten?
We're thinking once again
Of handcuffs and of orange jumpsuits aglow.
It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas
Indictments on every score
But the prettiest sight to see
Is the scowl on Darth Cheney
At the slammer's front door.

A warrant or writ, a subpoena that fits
Is the wish of Barney and Ben;
The thought of Turdblossom hung up like a possum
Is the hope of Janice and Jen;
And Mom and Dad can hardly wait for court to start again.

It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas
Everywhere you go.
There's an defendant who doesn't want to tell;
One in the White House as well --
The felony kind that doesn't mind the law!
It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas
Soon the bells will start
And the thing that will make them ring
Is the indictment that we sing,
Right within our hearts!

[seemslikeadream]

30. Very Nice crispini!

I actually did the same song in another thread just a minute ago but like your version much much better. Kinda fun isn't it?

Thanks and Merry Fitzmas

[crispini]

32. It's totally catching.

We could go carolling! :rofl:

[seemslikeadream]

33. Can I repost yours?

I really like it, I'll give ya the credit.

It's really a nice Fitzmas Card

[crispini]

34. Sure. I did put it up in the Lounge already.

Do you have one thread going just for carols? If not, why don't you, that would be awesome!!!! :D

[seemslikeadream]

36. This is where it all started

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4988201

but let's do another thread soon, you start it if ya want, probably get some really good stuff

[dbeach]

39. He sees U when U are sleeping

he knows when U are awake
if knows if rover been bad or good and this time there will be no mistake
so ya beter watch out
ya better not pout
better not be shy
Im telling you why

Grand Jurys are coming to Washingtontown
and to a town near

Good to C all U kids enjoying the eternal joy of Fitzmas

do I have to go to school tomorrow.??
.don't be silly kiddo
its OCT ..the month of Fitzmas

[dbeach]

37. U ROCK!!!

10 OUT OF POSSIBLE 10 PTS

MY HEART IS SINGING!!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

[bunny planet]

40. Yeah Crispi. You've done the KOEB proud.

Brilliant dahling, simply brilliant.

[paineinthearse]

41. This deserves to be a stand-alone!

Both this one and seemslikeadream's version at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4992104&mesg_id=4992836

[paineinthearse]

15. Rove returning tomorrow to testify to grand jury FOR THE 4TH TIME

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4992104

Murray Waas is very close to this story, I believe what he blogs.

[emulatorloo]

19. O'Donnell has updated this -- Interesting speculation

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/update-plamegate-the-ne_b_8457.html

,snip.

This just in from the AP:

Federal prosecutors have accepted an offer from presidential adviser Karl Rove to give 11th-hour testimony in the case of a CIA officer's leaked identity but have warned they cannot guarantee he won't be indicted, according to people directly familiar with the investigation.
What this means is Rove's lawyer, Bob Luskin, believes his client is defintely going to be indicted.


So, Luskin is sending Rove back into the grand jury to try to get around the prosecutor and sell his innocence directly to the grand jurors. Legal defense work doesn't get more desperate than this. The prosecutor is happy to let Rove go under oath again--without his lawyer in the room--and try to wiggle out of the case. The prosecutor has every right to expect that Rove's final under-oath grilling will either add a count or two to the indictment or force Rove to flip and testify against someone else.

,snip

[opihimoimoi]

22. UUIUUUUUUUU Happy Days...the Rove going get the hot seat

[Octafish]

24. Isn't Treason a capital crime?

Heh heh heh.

[dbeach]

26. "Most wonderful" time of the yr"

give me a "T" for Texas
Give me a "T" for TREASON from the imposter from TEXAS.

BTW when do we get to prove that he cheated Gore???


how about when do we get to toss out the Patsy Act??
natl ID?
the SC decision on eminent domain.?
.WELL how about EEVRY law since the crooks did the coup in 2000.

and please pardon me BUT since 11/22/63???

WONDERFUL to hear from U.

[dbeach]

25. "sell his innocence directly "

its all too much..INNOCENCE from mass murderers and their cohorts...

GOOD HEADS UP!!
THANX!!

[RamboLiberal]

31. O' Donnell has an update since Rove returning News came out

<snip>

What this means is Rove's lawyer, Bob Luskin, believes his client is defintely going to be indicted.

So, Luskin is sending Rove back into the grand jury to try to get around the prosecutor and sell his innocence directly to the grand jurors. Legal defense work doesn't get more desperate than this. The prosecutor is happy to let Rove go under oath again--without his lawyer in the room--and try to wiggle out of the case. The prosecutor has every right to expect that Rove's final under-oath grilling will either add a count or two to the indictment or force Rove to flip and testify against someone else.

Also from the AP story, this Luskin quote:

"I can say categorically that Karl has not received a target letter from the special counsel. The special counsel has confirmed that he has not made any charging decisions in respect to Karl."

I love Luskin. I really do. He is the best legal curve ball pitcher in Washington. How is the AP reporter supposed to know that prosecutors do not have to send target letters to targets? Mafia lawyers are not sitting around waiting for target letters.

Fitzgerald could have told Luskin verbally that Rove is a target. And because Fitzgerald is not subpoening Rove to testify, he has no obligation to send him a target letter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-odonnell/update-plamegate-the-ne_b_8457.html

[tavalon]

35. This makes me nervous because

while I do want the mud to splash on Bush and Cheney, I don't want Rove to get out of this.

[Holly_Hobby]

38. Bring 'em on!

:bounce:

[paineinthearse]

42. Rove has a 4th appointment with Fitz this morning.

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4992104&mesg_id=4992104

[d-artignan]

44. kick

[dbeach]

46. "Indictment threatens Bush aide over CIA leak "

From RI forum

"The MSM are finally getting interested, but as is often the case the Guardian leads the way. This was published at five or six New York time. And Julian Borger has an excellent track record."




Indictment threatens Bush aide over CIA leak

Julian Borger in Washington
Friday October 7, 2005
The Guardian


"There were signs last night that a criminal investigation into an intelligence leak was closing in on the White House after a federal prosecutor refused to rule out criminal charges against President George Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove.
The special counsel in the inquiry, Patrick Fitzgerald, accepted Mr Rove's offer to give unexpected new testimony, just days before the expected conclusion of a two-year investigation into the leak of a clandestine CIA agent's identity.

However, before accepting the offer, Mr Fitzgerald sent a formal letter to Mr Rove's legal team, saying that he could not guarantee that the presidential aide would not be indicted, according to the Associated Press, quoting "people directly familiar with the investigation".
Under US court procedures, such warnings are required before a witness gives evidence to a grand jury if there is a possibility that the witness could be charged. No such caution was issued to Mr Rove before his three previous appearances to testify in the case.

His lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Mr Rove intended to testify voluntarily for a fourth time, but insisted that he had not received a "target letter" indicating that an indictment was imminent. "The special counsel has confirmed that he has not made any charging decisions in respect to Karl," Mr Luskin told the AP.

An indictment against Mr Rove would be an earthquake for the White House. He has been Mr Bush's closest political aide for more than 10 years, masterminding his election to the Texas governorship and then to the US presidency.

After the president hailed Mr Rove as "the architect" of his re-election last year, he was given the job of deputy chief of staff, with far-reaching power over the administration's policy as well as its political strategy.

The leak investigation was launched after the disclosure in July 2003 of the name of a CIA undercover official, Valerie Plame. Her husband, Joseph Wilson, a former US ambassador, claimed that her identity had been leaked by the Bush administration in retribution against him for publicly questioning the official justification for the Iraq war.

Matt Cooper, a journalist for Time magazine, told the grand jury in July that Mr Rove had told him on condition of anonymity that Mr Wilson's wife was a CIA agent and that she had been instrumental in sending her husband to Africa in 2002 to check claims that Iraq was buying uranium.

Judith Miller of the New York Times, last week named Lewis Libby, chief of staff to the vice-president, Dick Cheney, as her source for a similar story. Miller had spent 85 days in jail for refusing to cooperate with the investigation.

Both officials have said they did not disclose Ms Plame's name, and were not aware that she was working under cover."



www.guardian.co.uk/usa/st...75,00.html