Lay off Recruiters!

[greblc]

I don't mean to say they aren't the moral equivalent of a used car salesman or worse but there are people who wish to join the military. Recruiters are there to find them.

Keeping them out of High Schools & College wont solve the problems of war.
It may prevent the nuisance caused by annoying recruiters but It will only transfer the burden to every family in the form of a Military Draft.

Be careful what you ask for.

I don't like the war either but our Military and its recruitment needs will not just go away. Like them or not Recruiters are preventing yong men and women from being drafted.

[havocmom]

1. Sorry, when they prey on young people behind parents' backs, they have

some serious opposition coming.

[Pepperbelly]

33. would you rather see a draft? nt

[greblc]

36. I'm not sure...

A draft in theory would spread the burden of war over social classes.
So in that regard it would be a good thing. I think it would also end the war quicker. When Chicken Hawks & Children of Chicken Hawks start dying the war may not seem like such a good idea to them.

The war should have never happened in the first place.

As a society Americans are very complacent and will do little or nothing until situations affect us directly.

The movement behind Cindy Shehan is a perfect example. Where were "we" when the Congress and Senate were giving the President the power to wage war on Iraq? Now our Children are dying. "We" let this happen.

Our lesson as a Nation should be:
It's easier to prevent a war than end one.

[Pepperbelly]

37. of course ...

very true.

[teknomanzer]

61. I call bullcrap...

The movement behind Cindy Shehan is a perfect example. Where were "we" when the Congress and Senate were giving the President the power to wage war on Iraq? Now our Children are dying. "We" let this happen.

Before the war there were world wide protests. But Bush was not going to listen to "focus groups."

"We", which includes me, are not responsible for the war. The establishment is. "We" made it abundantly clear that this war was not an option. "We" were ignored.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

69. Excuse me,

but I do not understand the reason behind a draft. EVER. PERIOD.

I will gladly dodge the draft if the time comes. In no way in hell am I ever going to war. EVER.

[BrendaStarr]

79. Well said greblc

on that latest post.

But then again, do you really think with their ability to steal elections that people opposing a war even with big numbers would help.

Next stop Iran.

[havocmom]

43. Probably would, actually. It is more dircect and honest.

This business of recruiters courting kids on the sly behind parents' backs at a time when many families naturally have some issues (adolesence is not easy) is not right. Recruiters who work on kids natural need to rebel a little then hand them papers to sign on their 18th birthday are preditors just like pedophiles.

We the People should be able to expect agents of OUR government to respect our governance over our own children, so long as we are taking care of them and not abusing them.

We the People should be able to expect the leaders of our government to respect the importance of our particapation in our democracy. For that to happen, we have to get honest information from them, not the lies this administration/junta propagated to sell the invasion of an innocent counrty.

We the People should be able to protect our children from preditors who would use them as fuel for warfare which is neither noble nor justified but which makes wealth for those propagating said war.

We the People have the right/duty to oversee the mechanism of policy and ultimately, life and death for our children.

We the People have every right to fight lies and macinations, ESPECIALLY when the future welfare of our children is at stake.

Lay off the recruiters? Not while crooks and liars throw away the futures and lives of our young. NO FUCKING WAY!

[Imagevision]

73. Scrw the recruiters ans especially they're bosses...! got it?!!

[Imagevision]

74. Screw the recruiters ans especially they're bosses...! got it?!!

[stevedeshazer]

2. Do you think I was laying on them too hard?

I don't.

[niyad]

3. I won't lay off them as long as they are allowed free rein in our schools

and as long as they LIE. instead of terrorizing us with the thought of the draft (which we all know is coming) how about getting off your duff and demanding that our politicians do something sensible and find solutions other than war?

[mike_c]

4. they're predators, recruiting cannon fodder for an immoral war....

They wouldn't be having such difficulty if folks weren't beginning to get the clue. Yes, we need a military, and recruiters serve a legitimate need in staffing it. But when young people's lives are simply being thrown away like yesterday's trash to stoke the vanity of a POS like Bush-- fuck that! Recruiters are keeping the meat grinder supplied.

[Dharma_Bum]

5. Their there to find kids with...

...information provided them by public schools, behind parent's backs.

[Walt Starr]

6. I disagree comletely. I WANT them to be hassled endlessly

Sorry, the only way this nation is ever going to stop having wars that put money into the pockets of a very few who buy and sell politicians is if all members of society are subject to fighting in those wars.

[tabasco]

11. I agree. Universal service, implemented during peacetime.

Strict deferment policy. Civil and military service options.

Seems to work in Europe.

[damntexdem]

22. Not with the Bushistas in power.

So long as they rule, any draft must be met with a ferocious antidraft movement.

[havocmom]

25. And no escape routes for Fortunate Sons with party hearty life styles

and friends to pull strings so going AWOL doesn't get punished

[July]

49. Which European countries have universal service? nt

[tabasco]

71. Germany, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Poland, Austria,

Switzerland, Slovakia, Greece, Russia, Denmark, maybe forgot some.

Compulsory male service for varying terms and voluntary female service for most.

My German girlfriend's family is pretty rich but her two brothers had to do 18 months, one in the army and one in the navy.

on edit: Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Macedonia, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine.

[Berserker]

15. Walt I understand your point

But.....you know as well as I do that the rich and privileged still won't have to fight in wars no matter if there is a draft or not. A few people on this administration come to mind.
Fighting to protect your country and fighting this illegal war are two very different things.
I do not have any feelings for the poor recruiters and there service records if they don't meet there quota. They should think about what they are doing and not blindly follow for the benefit of there careers.

[leetrisck]

65. When one is assigned to military recruiter, the

career is over and the military person knows it. A recruitment assignment is the kiss of death in the military. I don't think any business or organization should be allowed to recruit in high school. All the same arguments apply to them that apply to recruiters.

[YouthInAsia]

51. draft. its the only way to keep it fair. And no way to get out like in Nam

[CBGLuthier]

7. Their tactics of late

Make used-car salesmen seem ethical.

Let's see; they told one guy he would be arrested if he did not report to the recruiter.

They told other people how to fake a GED and get around other restrictions.

Sure they have needs. But I will not lay off them until the military starts kicking out the clowns that cross the line.

And god help them if they call MY house looking for MY children. We opted out and I would cut my kid's trigger fingers off before I would allow them to serve under the Bush regime.

[mike_c]

12. hell, I was recruited by a Navy recruiter in the mid 70's...

...who told me to simply lie about some, ahem, pending legal matters and a most impressive history of drug abuse for one so young. Needless to say, the Navy found out before I got out of Great Lakes basic.

on edit-- in fairness, I was unemployed and I walked into his office. But he still told me to just lie on the enlistment forms.

[BlueCaliDem]

60. LOL!! "...Pending legal matters and a....

...most impressive history of drug abuse for one so young."??

Hey, it was the 70's, so I guess they were desperate and had as much difficulty enlisting people on the whole as today! :hippie:

[William769]

8. Young people are at an impressionable age

Fuck the recruiters! They are preying on them.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. I Understand Where You're Comin' From...

...but the fact is, Recruiters in our high schools and colleges go ONLY to those high schools and colleges in less affluent areas of our society.

This I know for a FACT.

Military Recruiters are rampid on the campus of our local high schools with JROTC programs--surprise! surprise!--as part of our high school's curriculum where you can earn 5 points towards your graduation credits (my son went to this high school), while in the neighboring high school, in a more affluent city, they are void on the high school campuses (I had my daughter transferred there just this school year).

It's just a known fact that high schools in more affluent cities and districts aren't bothered by military recruiters--just those schools in less, to far less, affluent cities.

This is wrong, unfair, and unconscienable <sp?>, since the majority of people who're all "gung-ho" for wars no matter what (the MOST
"Support Our Troops", and "W-04" bumperstickers are found on SUVs and luxury sedans in that neighboring city), are those found in those more affluent cities.

The premise of your argument is good, but unfortunately, in reality, it comes down to class warfare once again, and as we all know by now, there IS class warfare raging on in America, only, the less affluent are the ones losing BIG TIME--again, as always.

And those are the facts.

[greblc]

19. Your right. Recruiters go to schools and colleges where they...

have had repeated success. It would be great if people of means would send their children to war. It's never happened, I doubt it will.

I'd like to add I've seen many Career Military People step up in Class because of the benefits of Military Service. Peace time service isn't a bad choice for young people. It's Politicians and needless wars that make it a poor choice for anybody at the moment.

[damntexdem]

23. But it can't just be about peacetime or wartime.

For example, in WWII, we needed a military, including a draft.

It has to be about those in charge. With a corrupt boob like Dubya as commander in chief, no one should be advised to enter the military.

[BlueCaliDem]

58. "People of Means" and their Offspring Consider Themselves

...the "privileged" within our society, and even IF they talk their kids into military service, you can bet on it they want them to at least have a four year college/university education before they do, so that they'll get the privileged TOP positions in the military--and NOT become "cannon fodder" for wars we DON'T need to make.

My last surviving, younger sister is currently serving her first (and hopefully ONLY) tour in Iraq, and is set to come home in about a month. It was she who advised my son, that should he choose to enlist (something that's NOT going to happen as long as I have any say in it), he should first get at least four years of college/university under his belt so that he won't have to start out as a grunt, but will quickly rise in ranks where it's safest.

If you ever had any doubt that the neo-aristocrats in the United States today are ensuring that their own offspring keep well away from enlisting unless promised (if not guaranteed through connections) they'll get a safe position high in the ranks, think about Cheney when he got his five deferments; remained in the country sharpening his skills at fleecing Federal monies, and blatantly said that he "had other priorities"--ONE of which, was to suddenly get Lynn pregnant when no more deferments were available to him!

Yes, SOME rise in class after entering military service, but it would be advisable to do more research on just HOW they did. As my younger sister said, who had entered the army in 1993, and who only rose one or two ranks for her over 10 year service, "it's harder to rise in rank without four years of college/university education. We get stepped over by incompetent people just because they have a college degree."

In the military, it's no different than in the civilian world: without a college education, it's going to take longer, and it's going to be harder to be promoted, and it's who you know, not what you know that can mean the difference.

[October]

52. Actually, that's not true

I've seen them in wealthy suburbs, too.

They offer big scholarship awards...and they have a physical presence...it may not be "huge," but they're here.

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Actually, I Believe You and I are Both Right...

...that there is a recruiting military presence at more affluent school and college campuses, and I'm glad you added the "...it may not be "huge", but they're here." part because fact is, in the high school our town where my son went, they were in your face and had nearly unlimited, unfettered access to the campus, and the students' time; parking their huge macho, camouflaged dressed tanks right smack in the center of the school with sign-up stands scattered everywhere else so as to avoid any chance of NOT being seen; having JROTC programs as part of the high school curriculum with credits; bringing in crisp uniformed recruiters looking good enough to eat to entice the impressionable senses of tough boys and girls...

In the more affluent city just neighboring our small town, the recruiters are limited in their socializing with students (it is, after all, a place for academics)and the staff work hard to inform parents about their rights regarding your child, and the military recruitment activities, plus they are kept strategically away from that part of the campus where Freshmen, Sophomores, and Juniors tread.

Funny also, that the majority of the school's faculty of this more affluent high school, are liberals, while in our town, the majority are "conservatives".

Hmm...

[October]

77. Indeed

In our district, their presence is somewhat more subtle...or insidious...but just down the road (30 minutes away)they had military helicopters and everything on "Career Day." Still...it appears in both town papers. In fact, it prompted me into writing a letter to the editor in response to a columnist's piece (local) being all pro-military and slamming parents.

I had a lot of positive feedback on that letter.

[boston bean]

10. There must be thousands of them, why don't they go to Iraq? nt

[BlueJac]

16. No shit.........

get off their dead asses and go to Iraq.

[TomInTib]

13. If kids want to join they will find the recruiters, I did

and have regretted it for 35 years.

Keep 'em out of the damned schools where they can be exposed to impressionable kids of all ages.
There has been way too much infiltration (Chucky Cheez) already.

[Solly Mack]

14. Only when they stop lying to potential recruits

I've always thought recruiters that lie should be jailed.


Now, if they want to recruit, then do it honestly and above board - if that doesn't work - perhaps America should take the hint.


If you're going to ask someone to go die - the very least you can do is be honest with them.


If recruiters find making quota is too hard if they're honest, then perhaps the problem is with the military itself. Maybe it's time for the military to change it's recruiting practices and the demands it makes on recruiters. It's the recruiter's superiors making life hard for the recruiters - not public opinion.

[cornermouse]

17. Having gone through my son's high school years BEFORE

they were allowed to go into schools behind parent's backs and being forced to field far too many phone calls to the point that I felt mildly harrassed (I'm sure its much worse now), I can find very little sympathy for them.

From a mother's point of view, they were out hunting and my child was their potential future prey. I reacted accordingly.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. You could help the recruiters satisfy their quotas by finding one....

...and signing up for service in the branch of your choice.

[greblc]

28. Been there ,done that.

<------ See the Marine Corps emblem?

I'm not for the war. But when I come across someone who is I suggest they enlist or their children enlist.

The words "I was going to join but..." or "John Jr. has asthma. " usually follow.

[ret5hd]

20. They ARE NOT the moral equivalent of a used car salesman...

They are the moral equivalent of a crack dealer...or a con man.

They sell death, and call it adventure.
They lie.

YOU, of all people, should know this.
YOU, of all people, should know this is wrong.

[damntexdem]

21. I am the faculty mentor for a campus anti-recruitment group.

My intent is to counter the recruiters any time they are on campus. I WILL NOT lay off recruiters -- the only call to 'lay off recruiters' that I will support is one to put them out of their jobs. The job of recruiters is to get young people to join the military. At the current time, that amounts to an attempt to entrap young people into something that may kill them to no purpose, and in any case will underpay them and renege on its promises to them.

And recruiters are not keeping young people from being drafted. What is keeping young people from being drafted is constituted of a number of things: (1) the lack of a law allowing them to be drafted; (2) the fact that few politicians of any party dare mention passing such a law; (3) the bad taste of the draft in the mouths of the American; (4) the fact that were a draft in place, the antiwar movement would be ten times the size it is now; and (5) the implacable opposition to the draft of millions of people like myself, who will fight any attempt to revive it.

Sure, there is a place for a military, so for young people in a military. But I do not support the entry of a single person into a military with Dubya, or anyone else like him, as its commander in chief. There will be a fine place for military recruiting when the current criminal gang is chased from leadership of this country. Until then, we should all dedicate ourselves to oppose military recruiting in any venue whatsoever.

[Akoto]

24. Strongly agree.

The military draft, especially in the current atmosphere, would be nothing less than political suicide. Bush gets away with what he does because his actions are carried out in the shadows. A lot of it does affect us, but not in ways that most people are aware of. It's hard to NOT be aware of your kids being forced into the death roulette that is Iraq. Once something tangible like that disrupts their lives, that's when the uprisings begin, and not just among the Democratic base.

Besides, with anti-war sentiment so strong, how would they enforce a draft? How're they going to track down all the ones that don't show up? Where will they put them all when they refuse to go?

[greblc]

27. More power to you.

But understand that "we" are not in power. Republicans control our government.
Logic should have prevented this war. Logic should prevent any Draft.

Think twice. A volunteer military is the only thing that stands between "us" and mandatory service.

Should ranks fall below a level that would allow two wars to be fought simultaneously a draft would not be a hard sell to even a Democratic Senator.

[libnnc]

29. that's some pretty grim logic

Best voluntarily sign up now to get blown into red mist for a lie...

or

Get involuntarily conscripted later to get blown into red mist for a lie...

What the hell do you expect moms and dads reactions to be?

[greblc]

35. Sorry, It's a hard pill to swallow.

I'm only an armchair general. I've been a recruiter and I'm sharing my opinion. I have 2 boys 10 & 7. Should this mess carry until they're of age it will be their choice. I'd sell my house and move with them to Canada if they chose to evade a draft. Should they choose to enlist I'll Stand proudly on the parade ground watching them graduate from boot camp. I know what I'd choose. Every young person makes choices in their lives. As a parent I would never dictate choices for my young adult children. I will offer opportunities , highlight options and hope they make good choices.

[Pepperbelly]

34. if they cannot recruit, they will draft.

Bet on it.

[havocmom]

44. Good! Let the chicken hawks share the burden for the war for profits

Tired of the comfy and rich skating while the poor go to war.

[Pepperbelly]

47. I already have one of my kids serving ...

I don't want anymore stuck in the military. No thanks.

[havocmom]

48. Think how many will turn out against the junta's war for profit

if they have to talk openly about a draft. I don't want to see any more of your kids in uniform while crooks and liars are giving the orders. Starving the beast is the way I will work on my goal of keeping ALL our children safe from pointless wars.

[greblc]

26. I'm not asking anyone to pitty Recruiters.

Just don't use them as your whipping post for your opposition to the war.
Maliciousness to wards a Marine or Soldier who may have friends who have died or been wounded in the war isn't productive.

There are predators of all sorts who will take advantage of young people. Credit Card Companies, Employers, Drug Dealers, Sex offenders etc... etc.. If you feel recruiters are preying on your child educate them on how they should handle these situations.

Be blunt and to the point and unwaivering with recruiters.

Never be rude or belligerent. Recruiters spend long boring hours in the office on the phone. Confronting them may guarantee they call back or visit if only to get a rise out of you for their amusement.

If calls or harasment persist tell them you are interested in speaking with their Commanding Officer. If they refuse to give you the number call another Recruiting Office, tell whomever your interested in setting up a promotion with their command group and you need the main office number. Speak with an Officer and request the Harassment and Phone Calls stop. It's not a Guarantee but Officers generally are more receptive to problems.

Good luck, play nice.

[libnnc]

30. "Good luck, play nice"?!?!?

This isn't a video game pal. This is pretty serious business that working moms and dads of school age kids are furious about.

[greblc]

39. Read my advice. Piss a Recruiter off and he will F*ck with you...

and your child. These men are trained killers do you think they will be intimidated by a school board or Johny's fat old man berating them on the telephone? It is a game to them and they want your kid to play. I have been a recruiter and understand the "Game". I'll be glad answer any questions you or others might have.

Sorry, I'm trying to be your "pal" but suggesting I'm caviler about the situation isn't making it easy.

[libnnc]

40. "Piss a recruiter off and he will fuck with you and your child..."

I'm just glad I don't have kids...I might end up in prison for murder.

[ReadTomPaine]

45. And intimation by a slopeheaded recruiter will just get him an invitation

to a well attended blanket party. Recruiters don't have as much to lose, but the people he's pushing around do. And you never mess with people who have nothing to lose, particularly blue collar poor folk who have had to fight to survive on the streets since their youth.

There are people in this country considerable more dangerous than stateside doughboys with clipboards.

[July]

50. If it's true that they will fuck with us if we get angry,

aren't they going beyond what they are called upon to do? Even breaking a rule or two about how they recruit? Tell me why I should lay off recruiters who operate this way.

[Book Lover]

59. I always love hearing that "trained killers" line from serviceguys

You think you people are the only ones who know how to kill people? Or do you just like threatening folks?

[Zynx]

31. Just provide a real financial incentive for soldiers, ban recruiters

and we won't need a draft ever. Recruiters behave shamelessly and prey on people in high schools and at work who have fallen on hard times. At my high school oftentimes the depressed high school student would walk over to the glamorous recruiting stands and start signing papers and gathering materials without realizing what they were really doing. The recruiters also made an effort at the store I worked at over the summer and even asked me to join while I was actually on the job!

[MojoXN]

32. Ehhhh...

No. I disagree. Recruiters ARE there to tap into that segment of young people who wish to go to the military, but they also serve to entice those who are fence-sitters into a totally unwise decision. Would YOU fight Bush's war? If so, there's this website, Free Republic, that you'll absolutely LOVE!

Sorry about the smart-ass remark, but... Look, the Army (and presumably the other brances of the armed foces) haven't hit their recruiting goals for 2005. What's preventing them from lying to young people? Nothing.

"Yeah, sure, you'll get a $15k signing bonus, $50k for college, this much for this, and this much for that... And yet it never materializes.

Empty promises. I've seen this first hand, nearly a dozen times. And I'm sittin' at the ripe ol' age of one score and three. If the powers that be decide that a draft is in order, it'll be organized forthwith, consequences be damned. Recruiting shortfalls are the most minor cog in the proverbial machine.

So, tell me again how TODAY'S recruiters are fighting the ethically "good fight." They KNOW, or at least they should, what kind of situation they're shipping naive young folks into. Carnage and wanton destruction come with the territory. If you're lucky, you come home alive and in one piece. If you're not...

Look, I hope I didn't offend you, I understand, to a degree, where you're coming from, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Then again, isn't that what makes America great? Dissent?

MojoXN

[greblc]

42. If were still in uniform I would fight reluctantly.

I was recalled to active service for the Gulf War in "91" . I wasn't happy, some of those recalled were eager to fight. But I didn't flee to Canada. I'm not a Hawk.Contrary to what those here may think. The war in Iraq is unjust and immoral.

Who can say the NG recruitment is unnecessary with events like Hurricane Katrina and Rita. Is it unethical to draw recruits for Aide in National Disasters? All of those Guardsmen that helped with relief sat down with a recruiter at some point. The problem is our military is being misused at the moment. Outside of war most veterans will tell you their military experience was positive.

I never said Recruiters were fighting the "good fight". It's my opinion that their efforts are delaying the likelihood of a draft.

[cynatnite]

38. Just like any group, there is good and bad...

Some recruiters have a lot of integrity and others are no better than used car salesmen trying to push off a lemon onto an unsuspecting customer.

I've heard these guys are under considerable pressure to meet their quotas. They spend a lot of time away from home and the hours are very long.

I would never want to be a recruiter.

[shenmue]

41. They have no business hassling under-18s

Why can't they wait for people to reach the standard age and go look for a recruiting office, and sign up of their own free will? Why come in and present impressionable people younger than that, who probably haven't worked or lived away from home and have little concept of life outside of school and family, with the image of the military as a life-saver in terms of money, training and skills imparted?

Most big towns have a recruitment office anyway. They don't need to send people into schools. Young people ought to get up off their asses and find something if they really want it. The decision whether or not to join the military is a momentous one which should be made of the person's own free will, after much thought. Not pressure.

The draft is illegal at the moment, that's why there isn't one. Like I said, there are already offices...oh forget it, apparently you have never driven past one of these and don't know they exist. How do we have a military now, if we need a draft so much? The military is unpopular because of our horrible president and this horrible war.

The end of school-based recruitment will *not* mean the end of recruiting. It just means they will have to stop picking on kids from poor towns where there are no jobs...the vampires...and it just means they will have to wait for the kids to grow up, think for themselves and join because they *want* to. Wouldn't that fact alone make it a better military?

What does it say about the military that they are not willing for people to wait? Does it mean they know they can't sell the product on its own merits? This implies they have a hint that if people wait a while, think about the war and compare it to the options out there, they won't make the decision the recruiters want. If a plan is so good, you don't need brainwashing to sell it. Qui s'excuse...

Quite often the vaunted training promised to the very young recruits does not apply the way they are told. They are told they'll see the world, learn all sorts of technology...yeah, that's what you'll get if you re-enlist a bunch of times. It is not the equivalent of some quick training whereby you can work like an IBM exec within a few months. Please. That is hilarious. They promise you all this computer training, that's what you'll get if you stick around for a long, long time, far beyond the inital enlistment. I know it from someone who spent many years in the Navy and said they lie their asses off to get you in the door. Not that this should be a surprise...

People under age 18, which most people are until about the last year of high school, should be under the guidance of their parents, and are not the government's property for the picking. This is not the Revolutionary War and our military is not the British forcing 'impressment' (basically a 'kidnap' draft) on the people.

Maybe if they run out of people, they'll stop the war?

No, what am I thinking...

:crazy: :shrug: :tinfoilhat:

[demgurl]

46. grblc, I am not mad at you so please do not take this the wrong way....

I was furious when I first heard this sentiment announced on NPR by a recruiter. From him it came across as a threat and a very stupid one at that. He stated that if we were not going to let him into our schools then we only have ourselves to blame when a draft occurs.

That is correct. Let me repeat that. WE ONLY HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME. We can not blame George Bush for starting a false war. We can not blame Colin Powell for going into the UN and and trying to convince them that there were weapons of mass destruction. We can not blame our military (including Rummy) for inspiring resistance by allowing torture to go on. We have no one to blame but ourselves so I guess we can hold no one else accountable. Yes, when our sons and daughters get drafted we shall have to sit there and realize it is all on our heads.

They have already put people in jail for refusing to go back to Iraq and fight for this country. I have often stopped to ponder the old saying about what if they gave a war and no one came. If everyone said they would not go then they could not put all of them in jail. Imagine 100,000 are drafted and supposed to show up for training and all of them stand there and refuse to go. Where would they put all of them? How could they arrest all of them especially if a campaign were started and the government knew that the next batch of kids drafted were going to need to be arrested for the exact same thing. Pretty soon there would be no room and no one left to arrest.

Anyway, I am still upset at the gall of a recruiter putting this squarely on our shoulders. I am stepping down off my soapbox now.

demgurl

[No Exit]

53. NOT while they work for the Bush regime!

I don't think all the recruiters in the world could prevent a draft if President Cheney decided he wanted one.

Let me just make an analogy, concerning something I've discovered. There are a lot of people out here who wish the government would spend money more carefully--reasoning that if they were better stewards of money, there would not need to be as many taxes to pay. The idea is, if they make the most of the money they have, and cut some corners, taxes would go down. Well, guess what: I've discovered that even when they brutally cut programs--even necessary programs--taxes NEVER go down (not counting *'s tax cuts for the 100 richest people in the country)!

So, thinking that if recruiting is successful, that that means the government would say, "Oh, good, we've got enough, no need for a draft", is attributing a logic and fairness to government which it does not possess. Government under Cheney is NOT fair, nor is it logical. It is only greedy and bloodthirsty.

[Swamp Rat]

55. Draft Republicans

Draft Republicans

Draft Republicans

Draft Republicans

Draft Republicans

Draft Republicans

[Vinca]

56. Recruiting is one thing, being a predator is another.

Enlisting is serious business and kids shouldn't be enticed with free crap to hear the spiel and more crap to sign the form.

[matcom]

57. ever had one lie to you?

i have.

fuck Army recruiters

[elehhhhna]

62. Recruiters are not treated well by the mil at all--

The job rubs and they don't all CHOOSE that rotation.

y'all have no idea.

[Ratty]

63. I see your point, but they don't get a free ride

The problem for me is when they do not meet local community non-discrimination standards. If a community has elected not to do business with agencies that discriminate that should include military recruiters along with everyone else. It's funny how Republicans trumpet the sanctity of local control over school boards when it comes to prayer and creationism, but when it comes to military recruiters we get the Solomon Amendment and let's not forget those poor, misunderstood Boy Scouts whom the Republican Senate is protecting in their education bill from evil oppressive local governments.

[Charlie Brown]

64. I agree w/you

Recruiting in colleges and other forums is the only viable alternative to a draft, and I don't my kids abducted by the government and sent to die in a war, least of all b/c we have more money than others.

All the pro-draft people on this thread should ask themselves why they think it's more ethical for the affluent to die in wars rather than the underprivelliged.

[BlueCaliDem]

66. Nobody Here is "Pro-Draft". We're "Pro-Equality"...

Fact is, a disproportionate amount of less-affluent boys and girls are fighting wars for the more-affluent (think of the Young Republicans like Jenna and Babs Bush) to help them get MORE affluent in class standing, money, and freedoms.

A draft--a REAL draft!--that would have ALL Americans enlist would only be fair, because face it; the last draft law the United States had, had so many technical, but legal loopholes only the affluent in this country were able to take advantage of, what with their 24/7 retained family attorneys fine-combing the law to get them out from under it!

How many non-affluent has had that advantage? Short of running to another country to hide, few did, I'd say.

A TRUE draft would entail that ALL Americans of age would have to enlist--and it doesn't matter if your daddy's president or any other powerful government head--and then we'll see a more than just significant DEcrease of wars, I can tell ya!

Rich people, like underprivileged people, don't like sending their own offspring to die in combat!

As long as there are enough poor, and impoverished, less-affluent boys and girls lied into enlisting through aggressive recruiters on our campuses, and sent to wars-for-profit-and-power without the affluent in our country having to lose a single drop of their blood while they benefit from it all on the cheap, no one, and I mean NO ONE should allow their children to enlist, or be enlisted until there can be an equilibrium within our society regarding the recruitment.

So I can turn the question around: Is it ethical that the less affluent children of less affluent families with far less resources available to them, are aggressively pursued with lies and empty promises behind their parents' back in schools to ultimately die in wars for those affluent children of more affluent families that have almost unlimited resources, and that are barely not even bothered, but who seem more easily to support wars than the less affluent?

It's only fair, that if Americans support wars, they should institute a mandatory draft for ALL Americans like in Israel, or what used to be in Europe. One and a half years of mandatory military training for all boys and girls regardless of race, creed, gender, religious pursuasion between the ages of 18 and 21 would significantly decrease the desire within us all for wars.

But that would hurt the military industrial complex, and the billions of taxpayers' money they get, wouldn't it?

[Charlie Brown]

68. Even if underprivilleged people are lied to and targeted

How does that justifiy forcing others to fight in wars? Death in war is wrong and senseless, no matter what the background or affluency of the servicemen.

You speak as though upper-class death is somehow the antidote for the plight of the poor and their position with military recruiters, and that sounds vindictive to me.

Why not simply support a recruitng reform movement?

[BlueCaliDem]

70. They Are. Plain and Simple. No "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it.

It doesn't justify forcing others to fight in wars. I never said that. Yes, death in war is wrong and senseless to those willing to see it, but pretty much good and productive for those who can't and who were all gung-ho behind * when he rushed into war in Iraq.

Perhaps you need to re-read my post. I never said anything to the effect that "upper-class death is somehow the antidote for the plight of the poor and the position with the military recruiters". Not intentionally. Therefore I was not purposefully being vindictive.

The essence of my post was to try to explain there needs to be an equilibrium among the enlisting tactics regarding both affluent and non-affluent of our children because you can't deny it's disproportionately tilted heavier against the non-affluent.

I would gladly support a recruiting reform movement, but have a hard head in ever believing true, unbiased recruiting reform could ever come to pass in a heavily Republican controlled Congress.

As explained in my post, like the underprivileged, the privileged among us don't want their offspring to die in wars either, but UNLIKE the underprivileged, the privileged have the leverage, connections, and money to ensure it doesn't happen if they don't want it to.

Therefore, if Americans still believe we need to wage wars preemptively; that we don't need no United Nations no more, I believe a mandatory draft for ALL Americans of age with no silly exceptions like an ingrown a**hair like Limpballs, or pulling powerful strings like *, is better than any kind of recruiting reform that could easily be riddled with loopholes the size of Mars!

[Malikshah]

67. Lay off the American People first

Sorry, but lies, half-truths and the like are not any excuse.

If the draft comes it will force the sheeple to actually take responsibility for their action

[walldude]

72. If what you say is true

and there are people who want to join the Military, they can go to a recruiting office, call the army, go on the internet. There is no need to solicit for military service.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

75. Press Gangs. Look it up.

[Spirochete]

76. Sure, why not?

They're laying off everybody else - why should recruiters be the only ones to keep their jobs?

[Stang8az28]

78. dont lay them off...

they need to change thier practices. not gonna happen i know but, without recruiters, there will be a draft.

on another note, I walked into the recruiters and enlisted. best thing i did for myself but, I had a college education and I READ MY CONTRACT BEFORE SIGNING IT. I had to have my contract rewritten twice before i took my oath. this is the only way to get what you want out of the military. I was in peacetime, but i would serve in war if my enlistment wasnt up yet. i wouldnt re enlist during wartime though.

it is MUCH easier to gain rank with college credit.

I am not for the war by any strech of the imagination but the troops there did sign up for duty KNOWING that they may possibly go to war. Its part of the deal. Now i want them home but they shouldnt complain about possibly being killed, thats what ANY enlisted person risks by signing their enlistment papers.

I support the troops, bring them home.


Dan

U.S.N Petty Officer 2nd class (Discharged)