News Gathering Is Illegal Under New Patriot Act II

[Jon8503]

By Alex Jones InfoWars.com

SECTION 102 of the new Patriot Act ll states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.


A Brief Analysis of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003
- Also Known as USA Patriot Act II

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001. The first Patriot Act was universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. William Safire, while writing for the New York Times, described the first Patriot Act's powers by saying that President Bush was "seizing dictatorial control." On February 7, 2003 the Center for Public Integrity, a non-partisan public interest think-tank in DC, revealed the full text of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003. The classified document had been leaked to them by an unnamed source inside the Federal government. The document consisted of a 33 page section by section analysis of the accompanying 87 page bill.

The bill itself is stamped "Confidential - Not for Distribution." Upon reading the analysis and bill, I was stunned by the scientifically crafted tyranny contained in the legislation. The Justice Department Office of Legislative Affairs admits that they had indeed covertly transmitted a copy of the legislation to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert, (R-Il) and the Vice President of the United States, Dick Cheney as well as the executive heads of federal law enforcement agencies.

http://www.rense.com/general59/newsgatheringisillegal.htm

[halobeam]

1. not familiar with this source, is it reliable?

This line reads like satire:

"Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was allowed to read the first Patriot Act that was passed by the House on October 27, 2001."

[bryant69]

2. That seems like a bit of hyperbole

ALthough possibly technically true. The legislation was passed with enormous speed. So possibly they just ensured there wasn't enough time to read the legislation.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[shance]

3. Is that your lead in for your 'friends' to come slam the source and thread

n/t

[halobeam]

18. Nope... not a slammer.....

just asking about the source because I am not familiar with it. That's all.

[SmokingJacket]

4. Well, there's crazy stuff on Rense, and Alex Jones is fringey, but

it's true that the first Patriot Act was far too long to read carefully before it was brought to vote.

Ron Paul is a Republican of the libertarian kind, and as such occasionally has goals that overlap with liberals': for example, he opposes excessive govt interference in Americans' private lives.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. About as reliable as a drunken skinhead.

Still, all of us have heard the testimonies of numerous Jewish concentration camp survivors and their stories of alleged Nazi atrocities, so, to eliminate redundancy, I will not quote them here. Yet the mere existence of millions of survivors would produce a shadow of doubt - one would hope - on the extermination theory. Unfortunately, the survivors who tell a completely *different* story of the concentration camps are seldom heard. They are often silenced like many historians who try to tell their stories for them. But their testimonies do exist.

I could go on, but I hate reprinting their filth.

[charlie]

9. Source is not reliable

But the line is true. Paul had to raise a stink just to get a copy and as far as I know, he's the only congress critter who had one before the vote.

[neweurope]

5. Do compare PATRIOT with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz.

Add the modern technical possibilities Hitler didn't even have...

The law has not been used much. But it's in place. I would get out.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. But according to Rense...

Hitler was a misunderstood genius who never harmed a flea.

[neweurope]

10. I don't see where Rense enters into this. Read the law...

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

11. I'll read the ACLU's critique of the law..

...and I see a lot of nasty shit, but I don't see anything about making news illegal.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Here is the section in question.

Section 102: Clandestine Intelligence Activities by Agent of a Foreign Power.

FISA currently defines "agent of a foreign power" to include a person who knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities on behalf of a foreign power--but only if those activities "involve or may involve a violation of" federal criminal law. Requiring the additional showing that the intelligence gathering violates the laws of the United States is both unnecessary and counterproductive, as such activities threaten the national security regardless of whether they are illegal. This provision would expand the definitions contained in 50 U.S.C. § 1801(b)(2)(A) & (B). Any person who engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for a foreign power would qualify as an "agent of a foreign power," regardless of whether those activities are federal crimes.

[neweurope]

15. I imagine if you heard of an atrocity committed by your government

and you somehow managed to tell a foreign newspaper or a foreign government about it that would make you an "agent of a foreign power" even though speaking to foreign newspapers isn't illegal.

PATRIOT I * II are immensely dangerous regardless of whether Rense is an asshole (and he seems to be).

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. I don't think that rises to the level of...

...clandestine intelligence-gathering for a foreign power.

[neweurope]

19. You don't think, but do you know? Everything I have read so far

about PATRIOT scares the hell out of me. And I'm not even a US citizen.

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. And the holocaust never happened...

Fuck Rense.

[Beaver Tail]

13. It doesnt matter what you think of

Rense or Alex. The question is "Is it true".

Frankly I don't care for Rense or Alex (I agree, Alex is on the fringe) but if what is said IS true and NOT an exaggeration than it has to delt with.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. Well, it's not true.

See my post above, with the actual text of the law. Then go to the ACLU's website and read their critique of the proposed law, which is quite good.

And don't tell me it doesn't matter if it's from Rense. Rense is a holocaust denier and a lying sack of shit. He and Alex Jones are like two cheeks of the same ass.

[Beaver Tail]

17. AS I said

Hey I don't like either of them (I will read it more in depth when I get home to understand it better - at work atm) so we are in the same boat there.

If a person is telling the truth (apparently not the situation as already mentioned here but I will come to that conclusion when I have time tonight to take a better look) it doesn’t matter if they are an asshat, holocaust denier or what ever else, if a person is speaking the truth than you can support what is said without supporting the person.

I prefer not to let my feelings get mixed with facts, thats something fanatics do (again apparently the truth is not being told here as I already mentioned in the previous paragraph).