Are you a member of a minority sexual lifestyle?

[benburch]

Poll question: Are you a member of a minority sexual lifestyle?

Minority sexual lifestyles are a public policy issue;

The military will still jail you or kick you out for Adultery, and there have been Adultery convictions in some states as recently as the mid-1990s.

Swingers parties get raided by the police.

Dungeon spaces get closed down with bogus building code violations, and people caught playing in them are often charged with assault even though everybody consented to what they were doing and were enjoying themselves.

Children are routinely taken from stable and loving homes when the minority sexual lifestyle of the parents is discovered

In some states, even the mere possession sex toys is enough for a conviction of prostitution

Finally, prostitution itself, and even when performed by medically prescribed sexual surrogates is a crime virtually everywhere in the country


In order to gauge the interest in this topic here, to possibly convince the moderators that a DU Group for discussing these issues would be a good idea, I am starting this poll to find out how many DUers fall into this category.

Answer YES if you are;

• In a triad or other group marriage, including a Church Of All Worlds "Nest"
  
• In an open relationship
  
• In some other way non-monogamous
  
• A "swinger"
  
• "Kinky" (Leather, latex, other fetish activities)
  
• A sexworker
  

Answer NO if you are none of the above.

To learn more about these issues;

http://www.ncsfreedom.org/
http://www.woodhullfoundation.org/
http://nasca.com/
http://directory.google.com/Top/Society/Sexuality/Politics_of_Sexuality/

[MnFats]

1. ummm....does having weird fantasies count?

ah. I didn't think so.
back to my mundane existence.

[Hissyspit]

2. Involuntarily celibate?

[Bob3]

3. that is my group as well

N/T

[PowerToThePeople]

4. One more there =)

[Joebert]

5. There are probably more of us than the alternative folks. :-)

[benburch]

7. I'm sure there are.

I expect to see about 5% alternative.

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Sadly, so true.....lolol....count me in as involuntary celibate n/t

[MsUnderstood]

39. Kind of an odd statement

Especially since some in the alternative lifestyle will cross over into this poll so to seperate you from them is misleading.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

140. It's almost looking like that! Me too. :) nt

[Piperay]

31. Voluntarily celibate for me nt

:thumbsup:

[Hissyspit]

34. Well, be all superior about it, why don't you?

:P

Notice all the involuntarily celibate declarations are from men (so far) and the one voluntarily celibate declaration is from a woman.

[enlightenment]

67. me too!

edit:
voluntarily celibate, that is.

[BlueIris]

73. Same here. Working great so far.

I love not having to deal with the hassles, expense and artifice of "normal sexual relations" as it has been defined in America. It's so sad how many people choose to stereotype, stigmatize and revile the non-sexually active. I'm not saying I go through what someone who leads a minority sexual lifestyle does, but the way posters on this board have treated me is hurtful and disgusting enough.

[Gregorian]

89. 20 years in December.

And I used to have two and three girlfriends at any given period. But something happened after the last one. It was like a light switch. That morning, I got up, and that was it.

[lizerdbits]

117. I guess I'd fall into that category

15 years of dating seems to have exterminated my sex drive. It's been about 3 years and I don't really think about it at all.

[teknomanzer]

47. Alas I am currently monosexual... and not by choice...

if you know what i mean. :evilgrin:

[meow2u3]

53. I'm voluntarily celibate

After I've been in one abusive relationship too many. The last one was 13 years ago.

[TahitiNut]

62. Hey! I made that my HOBBY!

I figured I'd try making lemonade. :silly:

[BiggJawn]

70. Yep.

Why the **** ELSE would I be on the internet at midnight on Saturday night?

[darkism]

83. Hello my fellow incels.

Watching "The 40 Year-Old Virgin" and noticing that the character in the movie has the SAME bedroom set as me and the SAME MST3K poster on the wall didn't help me feel any better, either.

Oh well, I still have another 19 years to get some before they make a movie about me. :p

[Blue_Tires]

106. roger that

but trying to 'correct' the situation very soon

[MN ChimpH8R]

130. Yo

Been in that club for 30+ years.

[Mr Rabble]

6. I'm married as of the coming Wednesday.

Thats right, Wednesday. So, that puts me in the No category.

[LincolnMcGrath]

8. Congrats and Good wishes mate.

[etherealtruth]

9. Congratulations! n/t

[90-percent]

10. poll

I'm in the same category as MnFats.

-85%

[MnFats]

11. well, congratulations. and good luck. I think. n/t

[Mr Rabble]

12. Thanks everyone. I am truly lucky. My wife rocks!

[benburch]

13. Excellent!

:toast:

[NNadir]

36. I'm married, monogamous, straight: Definitely a minority.

Twenty years with the same woman and I never even thought about straying.

[BlueIris]

75. Lucky woman. nt.

[NNadir]

78. Lucky man.

[BlueIris]

79. You know, I almost posted that, too.

Maybe you and your spouse should teach seminars to the unenlightened. It's not that I think people need to get divorced less--they need to get married less; it's not a form of commitment many are prepared for, and if they were prepared--by say, the experts--they might not choose that kind of relationship for themselves. It would create less havoc in our society. Probably drive the RW-ers up the wall, but at least there would be less disillusionment and pain for all of the love/commitment challenged people out there.

[mongo]

131. What do mean by "prepared -- by say, the experts"?

Are you suggesting mandatory counseling to get married?

Personally, I think that if there were more sexual outlets, and acceptable sexual practices for young adults than serial monogamy, people would learn so much more about themselves, relationships, love and sex - and when they did get married, it would be for better reasons.

I've been happily married and monogamous for 9 years next month. But Both Daisy and I led fairly wild sex lives before we met each other.

[BlueIris]

132. Oh, for fuck's sake.

I wasn't "suggesting" mandatory anything. But thanks for attacking me as if I had.

Obviously, there shouldn't be a standard for what do before deciding to commit, or not, in a marriage or not--a mongamous one, or another kind. What I meant by the "experts," were people who chose a form of marriage that includes a desire to be devoted to one person because it was what they decided they wanted for themselves--not for the thousands of other fucked up (non-self respecting) reasons people stupidly pursue marriage these days.

That's great that you had a "wild" sex life before deciding to get married. Maybe that's something that's made you a healthy person, and maybe that's something that informed your desire to choose marriage as the way to manage your relationship. Sometimes, the approach to sexuality and to relationships that you engaged in is something people want--but lots of times the urge to engage in "serial monogamy" is as well. Suggesting that there should be one standard of any kind for sexuality or relationships--or that people who want monogamy (oh, the shame) are somehow less prepared for or worthy of commitment than those who have other attitudes--is ridiculous.

[mongo]

137. I was just asking....

not attacking by any means.

And I don't believe that I suggested there should be one standard of sexuality, actually, I was suggesting that there should be MORE than the one standard we have today, which is serial monogamy.

[u4ic]

151. Congrats!!

[jmowreader]

14. It depends on how you define "fetish"

According to the Bush boy and his syncophants, anything except straight-leg, straight-arm, missionary sex specifically for the purpose of creating more Republicans is "fetish."

[benburch]

19. Well, I'll let you self-define.

I'm not the arbiter of fetish or kink.

[jmowreader]

40. Okay, put me down as a yes

[derby378]

61. Hate to tell you this...

...but "fetish" defines the average Republican's sex life no matter what he or she says to the contrary. Just sit back and observe them for a while.

[undergroundpanther]

15. an Androgyny Transgenderless

Bisexual,in an open relationship and asexual about it...With a feline look,tatoos soon to have whiskers ect.(ala'"Cat man). I look a bit freaky..

I really tie alot of people's assumptions in a knot.

[benburch]

18. Good to know I am not the only one on the fringe.

Actually, I am really rather tame compared to most of my friends.

[undergroundpanther]

32. I can't do mainstream

When I am around straight people(in a dating situation) I feel uncomfortable..When I am around people that are too"normal" I feel out of place and I have trouble finding ways to relate to them personally,

However they are totally fascinated with me..
And little kids love my panther tail.It's so cute!

They I guess never saw a freak as freaky as I who is open, so up close who is so congenial and unafraid to be myself. I dunno. Guessing here.

[benburch]

56. Wow!

That is hardcore body modification!

I have never been into self-adornment, though I can appreciate it when I see it done well.

You should post a picture of your mods, and a time-sequence of them if you kept one some time,

[undergroundpanther]

60. I plan to do that..

A wicked cool animation it would be

[benburch]

80. I look forward to seeing that.

And the pictures you IMed me were a great start.

[FlaGranny]

141. For a minute I thought you might be

that guy on the Taboo TV show, but he already has his whiskers. :-) I'm straight, but not at all uncomfortable around other persuasions, and find myself really getting along well with most gays of both sexes. I especially like gay men, though. Most, or many are way more sensitive, caring, and even smarter than the average "normal" male - at least the ones I know are.

[bicentennial_baby]

16. hmmmm

i think so... :shrug:


:P

[undergroundpanther]

17. meerowrr??

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. I voted no, but I have to ask..in which states are the possession

of sex toys illegal?

I know it's not CO, because a Fascinations store just opened up a few miles from us.

My husband and I will probably venture in there sometime.(that's what we keep saying). If we do buy something we'd have to sneak it in and hide it from our detective 17 y/o kid. But, I don't think we'd break any laws.

But I am really curious which states would even bother to put together a statute about sex toys, much less expend resources enforcing it.

MKJ

[benburch]

22. Texas and Montana nt

[benburch]

24. Oh, and...

Alabama was considering such a law as well... I do not know if it passed.

[converted_democrat]

99. It is not illegal to posses in Alabama, but it is illegal to sell them.n/t

[derby378]

63. Wrong about Texas

Down here, it's legal to own, possess, and use sex toys. It's just illegal to buy them or sell them.

Therefore, condom shops in Texas enjoy a brisk business selling "cake toppers," "adult party novelties," and "for external use only" items.

Get my drift?

[benburch]

111. Thanks for the clarification.

Selling them as objects d'art had not occurred to me!

[walldude]

115. If I'm not mistaken it's legal to sell them in Texas

as long as it's for "educational purposes". I saw a documentary about this at a film festival. Molly Ivans was in it, she was hilarious. The bill that passed was piggy backed with the bill outlawing sodomy. Molly saw 2 repuke legislators shaking hands after the vote and she said "Thats the last time you'll see a dick touch an asshole in this state" :rofl:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Alabama...

I guess they should ban all cylindical objects.....




http://www.libchrist.com/New2004-5/sextoyban.html

[benburch]

25. It passed. Damn.

Thanks for the info.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. Unbelievable. What on earth is the Constitutional basis for banning

sex toys? MKJ

[benburch]

27. They need it to be Constitutional?

They can do whatever they want.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

29. Laws like that remind of the old statutes about parking your horse and

cursing in public.

Even though I don't meet the criteria for a minority sexual lifestyle, I do believe in privacy and minimizing government intrusion.

Good luck and thanks for providing this information. MKJ

P.S. I'll vote for this forum.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Because There Is No Explicit Right In The Constitution To Own Them...

That's the rationale as bizarre as it seems......


Any number of household items can substitute as a sex toy.....


Silly...

[benburch]

30. Except the 9th Amendment

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Conservatives Don't Believe In Unenumerated Rights....

It would be interesting to read what the framers of the Constitution meant by the Ninth Amendment....


Of course I take a rather expansive view of the 4th and 9th Amendments but originalists point to the fact that the Constitution offers the possibility of amending itself to add new "rights" making the 9th Amendment not as expansive as Bill Of Rights and 9th Amendment absolutists would like....


It would be nice to see a liberal constitutional lawyer chirp in....

[Bucky]

100. You know, if vibrators also fired bullets they'd be protected under 2nd Am

Just a thought.

[benburch]

104. Indeed...

And sex with loaded guns is a fetish I know some people get off on... (I'm not kidding you.)

Not my thing, though. I prefer a much lower level of danger.

[teknomanzer]

44. Can you imagine the kind of psychic trauma...

your poor teenage child will have if your toys are discovered. Talking about going down a corridor no one wants to see. I've been there... very weird... talk about going through all the seven stages... okay so I got over it after 30 minutes or so, but it was 30 minutes of pure vertigo!

[benburch]

54. Lock and key...

A locked trunk is a kinkster's friend.

[teknomanzer]

57. A locked trunk...

is a mere obstacle for a curious and determined teenager... Do you alway keep the key with you?

I suppose the surprising discovery would be punishment enough for poking around in places you shouldn't be... :evilgrin:

[benburch]

58. Well, my kids are grown and gone.

But I actually kept my bedroom locked when I wasn't around, too.

[teknomanzer]

59. Maybe I was just twisted...

but locked doors and such were like an invitation to see what someone was hiding. After a while I figured out that most of the stuff people hide wasn't even worth the effort of discovery.

[walldude]

114. Fascinations is a pretty cool store

My wife and I shop in the Lakewood store occasionally. It's comfortable and the people are nice, and it's mostly couples shopping.

[K-W]

35. In a wonderful semi-open relationship.

This is definately a big issue, now and even more so potentially. There is no end to what the religious right will regulate if given the chance. And people who live alternative sexual lifestyles are very easy to stigmatize and victimize, because so few will stand with them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. The Bedroom Should Be Beyond The Reach Of The Government...

I'll stand by ya.....

[B3Nut]

127. Falwell can kiss my fanny...

...on second thought, no thanks. Eewwww!

Straight and married, but we like toys. Toys are fun! :D So put me down for a 'yes'...the real sicko is the assclown that would try and outlaw sex toys...what people do in their bedrooms is nobody else's business. Maybe the fundies are just jealous. :D Take 'em to betweenthesheets.co.uk and show 'em the leather or latex sheets...their heads will explode. :evilgrin:

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Just Me]

38. I am a celibate, by choice. I do believe "sex" can be harmful,...

,...if engaged without respect of the act and emotions and consequences involved.

To me, sex is more precious than basic sustenance because, it involves "creation".

But, hey, that's "Just Me".

[benburch]

41. And you shouldn't be anybody else!

:yourock:

[ContraBass Black]

101. I'm with you.

Sex is beautiful and sacred.

And that's why I haven't done it yet.

[Atman]

142. Sex is beautiful and sacred

God is beautiful and sacred, too, according to god-o-philes. Yet, I never hear them honor God and Jesus by NOT worshipping him.

[ContraBass Black]

146. When my first time comes, it will be an act of worship.

And likely several other things as well.

[Zhade]

147. What does it create?

I assume you are not speaking of children, as I've never gotten the idea that you are one of those "sex is only for procreation" people.

So, in all sincerity, what does sex create, in your mind?

[AspenRose]

42. In some people's minds, interracial sex would be a minority lifestyle,

even if monogamous and married (as I am).

BUT, as Franken would put it (*cue Strom Thurmond imitation*), "the p*cker knows no bigotry!"

}(

[Maestro]

43. In the no category

and quite frankly I am way too shy to even be in the swingers group. Hey but for those that are, have you seen Bolton, O'Reilly or any other of those radical wingnut hypocrites? ;)

[benburch]

45. I used to help run a swingers club...

There was one fellow, a GOP politico who showed up all the time... Never had to show ID as he was a friend of the owner. Nope. I won't "out" him. But know that there are a LOT of GOP members in the swingers community.

[Maestro]

49. Why does that not surprise me in the least?

Asswipes! I can't stand them.

[benburch]

51. You can usually tell who they are.

They have the trophy wives with all the silicone extras... The ones that I find SO unattractive.

[sniffa]

46. peopLe wiLL be dead before they take my kids

[Beam Me Up]

48. I take it being gay in and of itself doesn't count.

So I voted "no".

}(

[benburch]

50. Not anymore it doesn't.

30 years ago...

[Beam Me Up]

55. Well, damn.

[Zhade]

149. Nope - that's an orientation, not a lifestyle choice.

But obviously we both know that! :)

[oppositionmember]

52. No but I'm willing to learn...

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. Yep - celibate and monogamous

[LeftyMom]

65. I'm boring in my old age

Put me down as a no, because "Sex?!? I think I vaugely remember that." isn't an option. Now in my wilder younger days... :evilgrin:

[hootinholler]

119. You coming to DC?

JK. :evilgrin:

-Hoot

[GrpCaptMandrake]

66. Great topic, Ben . . . .

. . . and I think you hint at a greater truism by raising the issue: there is no such thing as "majority sex." Sex, by its very definition, is a finite, minority act. In the literally naked (sometimes not) act of unmasking (again, sometimes not) oneself to another, or several, we excise ourselves from the great huddled mass of humanity in exchange for the most private of moments (even in a crowd). Realization of that fact is what makes the incredibly repressed right quite possibly the kinkiest of the kinky. They think that by having purely reproductive copulation that they can somehow tap into a collectivist gang bang zeitgeist.

For my part, and, I hope, that of my lovely wife, we will ALWAYS be part of a sexual minority. Whether our acts, or those of our friends, involve leather, mink-lined wrist cuffs, rubber or rutabagas misses the point. Try anything once; twice if you like it.

It's the people who try to declare what is and isn't acceptable who are the kinky ones.

[u4ic]

152. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[leeroysphitz]

68. I had to vote yes BUT...

I was young. I needed the work...

[benburch]

72. No need...

to apologize!

Sexwork is a labor issue not a morality issue!

[Jack_DeLeon]

69. No, but I'd like to be.

lol

[Qanisqineq]

71. I never thought of myself as a member of the minority sexual

lifestyle club. Hmmmm. I guess my husband and I fit into the club based on two of the choices.

[Usrename]

74. If only I had a lot of money to hire a lot of sexworkers.

But I have to get by on my looks and wit, so I guess involuntarily celibate.

[Clintmax]

76. I had to vote no...

Because I do not fall into any of the catagories you listed. I am gay. I am "married" to my husband, Greekspeak. We've been together and monogamous for 10 years. But I think most people would think we are in the sexual minority anyway.

[benburch]

82. I meant to exclude monogamous non-kinky GBLT people here...

as there is already a GBLT forum on DU, and had I not excluded people like you this poll would not have demonstrated the need for forum for other sexual minorities.

But I agree, the issues can be very similar, especially when the Christo-fascists get control of the mechanisms of government.

[Zhade]

148. Well, that, plus GLBTism is not a lifestyle, but an orientation.

Which I know you know, I'm just pointing it out for others.

:)

[benburch]

154. Exactly.

Thanks!

[ohio_liberal]

77. Currently non-monogamous

:hi:

[benburch]

81. I'm amazed at how many people voted "yes" here.

I was prepared for 5-7%

Thank you all, both vanilla and kinky for participating!

:yourock:

[BlueIris]

84. So am I.

From what I've seen here, that wasn't the kind of response I expected from members of this website. Then again, I did register after the sex threads were banned in the Lounge--a decision I totally love (don't lock!).

[benburch]

91. And I agree... there are lots of places to discuss sex itself.

But very few places where you can discuss sex as it relates to public policy and the Democratic Party platform.

[BlueIris]

98. Was that what the sex threads discussed?

That was before my time, so I wouldn't know.

[benburch]

102. This may amaze you...

but I don't think I ever read any of them!

Simply too busy running White Rose to hang out in the lounge.

[MojoXN]

85. Does a keen interest in the practice of heterosexual anal sodomy...

qualify? Because if so, then yes, I am do have a minority sexual lifestyle.

MojoX

[benburch]

90. If you do it non-monogamously, yes.

I am trying to exclude monogamous people either straight or gay for reasons I outlined in a reply above.

[Iris]

86. ultra-liberal, ultra-feminist, and

have only slept with one man - my husband!

So, sort of.

[Terran]

87. I'm sensing this question is about heterosexual lifestyles only...

Am I right? Most of the stuff on your list is hetero-oriented, explicitly or by implication.

[benburch]

88. Not at all.

Fetish, non-monogamy, sexwork... All of those are both gay and straight issues.

[Terran]

105. Er, yeah, but

Being GLBT is inherently a sexual minority lifestyle. Everything else in the OP that could conceivably overlap with GLBT issues is secondary to actually being GLBT. And really, we don't get oppressed for doing any of that stuff; we get oppressed for simply being who we are. The OP's implication seemed to be, to me, that if you're straight and you happen to engage in any of these activities, then you get oppressed. The difference of course is that the stuff in the OP's list was all voluntary activity, whereas we can't help being what we are.

Mind, I'm not complaining; I just wish this had been made a little clearer.

[benburch]

108. I'm bisexual myself...

and have had to pay a price for that on several occasions... More about that some other time, though.

My intention here was to generate the proof of a mandate for a forum beyond the GBLT forum for discussions that would not be at home there, and for "straight" people who are not "narrow" to discuss their issues.

Correct me if I am wrong, but a sexworkers rights discussion would not be a welcome thing in the GBLT forums here, and at the same time, would not there encompass heterosexual sexwork if it were.

I see issues that go across gender and sexual preferences lines; repression of BDSM is neither a gay nor a straight issue, nor is sexworker's rights, group marriages, nonmonogamy...

For example, a gay bathhouse is directly analogous to a heterosexual swinger's club, or a pansexual dungeon space, and the laws used to repress one can and are used to repress the others.

I meant no slight against GBLT people with this poll - I am merely attempting to seek a mandate for a broader discussion forum.

[Zhade]

150. Being GLBT is not a lifestyle choice, it is an orientation.

NT!

[leanin_green]

93. Or, maybe that's the only lifestyles who have answered the thread, so far.

[leanin_green]

92. Unwilling open marriage.

My wife doesn't care about sex anymore and doesn't feel the need to explore why. So, she's given permission to me to be with others. I'm unwilling, though. So, I just fantasize about it. I'm stuck between love for my wife and a need for physical intimacy. The only way I could is if we separate or divorce and I don't want that either. HELP!!! What a cruel twist of fate!

[benburch]

94. Damn, I'm so sorry.

That totally sucks. :hug:

I don't have much advice to offer, other than relationship counseling if she will accept that.

Or, have you tried a different approach? Flowers, cuddling, kissing? Pretend you had never seduced her before? Sometimes that can work wonders.

[BlueIris]

97. I'm sorry, too.

That sounds very frustrating.

Gee, if you care what I think, though, it's great that you can still feel your love her, even if your situation no longer involves sex. Most people in this day and age couldn't do that. I'm not saying that makes them bad people, but most are not willing to consider a relationship that does not involved the gaurantee of sex, and even more consider sex an obligation they are "owed" by their partners if their relationship is a marriage. Your ability to understand love at this level is unique.

Maybe she won't always be unwilling to explore the reasons for her disinterest. You must be a very devoted spouse to be willing to wait it out like this.

(BTW--none of my business at all, but I hope your wife is okay. Sometimes, loss of interest in sex can be a normal thing--believe me, as a celibate, I'm all about the normalcy of simply no longer caring--but other times, it can be an indication of a serious health problem (depression, other concerns). It may not help, and she might find it rather threatening and intrusive, but maybe you could find a polite, non-judmental way to hint to her that she might want to find out if her problem is medical. Not in a nasty, "you should go see a doctor, there's obviously something wrong with you" way, which will undoubtedly make things worse (it's the same reason I can't suggest that you suggest pursuing relationship counseling as a way to "work out" the issue--many unsatisfied partners and couples' therapists try to manipulate the "problem" partner into forcing him/herself into intimacy with threats about breaking up the relationship and other strategies). Just a polite, "maybe you should get checked out for the sake of your heath, I'm worried about you.")

[leanin_green]

110. Thanks Blue, follow me in for what I've tried.

There's another aspect to all of this that seems to be not uncommon in our culture. Sexual molestation issues. I have them(I guess like attracts like)but have done the work necessary to understand how they have affected my relationships in the past. Two things usually happens to those who have this issue in their lives. They either become obsessively sexual in nature or shut down and turn off to sex completely. In my situation, former meet latter. I have to respect her reaction to what she was subjected to. However, this causes problems in relationships because after the initial courting sex ritual and the relationship develops, this is where she has usually either finished the relationship or acquiesced to her partner and did things she really didn't want to. Enter leanin_green, who, crazy me, likes his partners to be into him as much as he is into them. I would hate to be an obligation or a duty as is so euphemistically put forth as part of the marriage bond. God, what kind of shit is that?! How did womankind allow that one to go unchallenged for so long?

We've had the conversation and I know the issues that surround this part of her personality. I respect her feelings about her distaste and disinterest. What hurts me is the fact that she doesn't see how this hinders other aspects of her ability to have a meaningful, intimate relationship apart from the sexual. She's never even masturbated in her life. Is horrified and disgusted at the idea. Further, since I have worked through the religious conditioning surrounding my own sexuality to remove the guilt association around it, I am freer and happier. I find no problem in taking care of my own urges through self-love. To her, that makes me perverted. I wish I could help her see just how judgmental that is. How hurtful it is to me after my own healing journey. But, she can't hear me at this time. And the gulf widens. She has now said she loves me, but, she's not in love with me anymore. I said, "Good, then the illusion has worn off. Wife meet husband for the first time. This is the human apart from the god. See my warts? Still want me?" Ain't knowledge a bitch? Once you know stuff, you can't act like everyone else without guilt attached. Natural guilt that is warranted because you know better. Damn!

I thank you for your compliments. To clarify your perception of me, this is my first marriage and I'm 47. We've been together for going on six years now. So, I was married for the first time at 42. When I made those vows they weren't just to her but to me as well. It is difficult for someone with my ancient view of life to just toss them for a personal need. Oh, I know most people would find no fault with me for finding a lover or taking a mistress, but, I suffer from terminal uniqueness and don't find comfort in conforming to the norm. Call my struggle, "Virtue, the next social rebellion." I don't know how long I can hold out, though. I'm a sexual person and it is an intricate part of my expression of love. Having reclaimed my sexuality from its captors, I love sex for my own reasons and not the reasons given to me by someone else while I was too young to form them naturally without interference. I'm affectionate and demonstrative and need to touch. I communicate a great deal through my touch. I don't think I'll be able to remove it from my make-up nor should I have to. I was consciously celibate for much of my single life. I couldn't join with other people because I'm aware of sexual karma. So many are wounded in this area of their lives, I couldn't be the agent of more confusion in their or my life just for a physical need. There were a few who were as free as I was and we shared ourselves with each other, very beautiful times in my life. And during my confusion I no doubt hurt as many as hurt me. But, I didn't like being that person for them and it always stayed with me. Anyway, maybe love will eventually overcome. I'm sure she's never had someone love her for her and have no expectations on how she should behave or perform as a partner. But, I won't martyr myself for her either. Wish me luck. If not, look me up! HeHeHe.

[BlueIris]

126. Woah. Great post, but--

See, I really try not to be one of those people who assumes that any woman not interested in sex was automatically raped, molested, abused or traumatized, or is dealing with stigmas that occurred as a result of repressive upbringing, (I CANNOT STAND IT when people assume those things about my own situation because--they don't have anything to do with why I hate sex) yet...if those are her issues, well, it's fortunate that she has a partner who understands the conflicts. Still, while your patient "hands off" approach is valid--well, I take back what I posted about how you shouldn't suggest counseling. She needs it. Not so much so that you two can have intimacy and a sex life within your relationship, but so she can find some measure of emotional and psychological healing. Once again, you didn't ask for this advice, so forgive me if it looks forward, but--I think you should do what you can to encourage her to seek serious, compassionate therapeutic help, preferably from a therapist of psychiatrist who specializes in helping women who have been struggling with these traumas for as long as she has. I'm not saying you should get aggressive about it; that wouldn't work and I get the feeling it isn't part of your style anyway. But you should encourage--and continue to encourage--her to get professional assistance, in addition to continuing to provide her with love and support in your life together. So you can both feel better.

[Faygo Kid]

95. 54 - are you kidding?

Should've seen me in the early '70s, though. Got aboard the Love Train.
:crazy: :crazy:

[Dr Fate]

96. Lots of couples are "square" by comparison- toys, movies, roles, etc.

The government needs to be out of the bedroom of Americans- even if you are "square" by some of the standards you listed.

What I am trying to say is mabye this should not be framed as a minority lifestyle. MOST people go beyond missionary- and would be considered "alternative" by any standards Bush-fundies would be comfortable talking about.

[benburch]

103. You have a great point there.

And I'll think about it.

Were there a DU group, how would you describe its charter?

[Dr Fate]

107. In a way that frames Bush-Fundies as the real minority.

Mabye I would try to frame it in a way that shows that the Bush-fundies are the minority, not everyone else.

For instance- "sodomy" technicaly includes what many straight, monogomous couples are into.

Lots of straight couples, including plenty of educated republicans, are into plenty of things that Bush-fundies would not approve of.

Think of all the Republicans who are not offended by Sex & the City- or who like strip clubs, porn & trips to Vegas.

I'm saying that even on the surface- it is obvious that the Fawell/Robertson/Bush view of sexuality is the minority, not everyone elses outlook.

[benburch]

109. Excellent points all.

When we draft the proposed charter, I will draw on you...

GrpCaptMandrake made similar statements in an IM to me as well.

[walldude]

116. The Fawell/Robertson/Bush view of sexuality

is basically hypocrisy. I have spoken to a few people in the Sex industry and they claim that Conservatives/Christians/Republicans are their most frequent customers. They also claim that they are kinkiest. I guess it's all that pent up fustration.

[TimeChaser]

112. Well

I've got some strange fetishes that some might consider wrong or nasty. I've never had a chance to act upon them, though. Does that still count?

[benburch]

113. I'd say so, yes.

The more the merrier. ;)

[Lilith Velkor]

118. Non-monogamous

:hi:

[benburch]

120. Now, had I thought about it...

I would have guessed that. :evilgrin:

[Lilith Velkor]

121. Was it something I posted?

Just curious....

[benburch]

123. Nothing I could point to.

Sometimes I get impressions that cannot be defended but what often turn out to be right.

[LiveWire]

122. I am in an open relationship

We arent married or anything, but our colleges are just too far apart (except for the break periods).

[MadisonProgressive]

125. Does she know that?

:spank:

[Lilith Velkor]

134. Ignorant responses like this one

...speak of a need for a group. :eyes:

[MadisonProgressive]

143. Ignorant? Please explain!

[MadisonProgressive]

124. I'm in the "can't get enough" category - is that so wrong?

[frictionlessO]

128. ermmmm... very very very YES...

on mulitple counts.

Thanks Ben what a great idea and some of the feedback in this thread is awesome.

I'm wondering what fellow DU'ers will think about those of us who are serious yesses. 8 months or so ago I saw a couple of threads that had DU'ers posting vile untruths about sex workers and whats more was a nearly complete lack of honesty concerning such things.

I am relieved to see some intelligent discourse on the subject, thank you.

[benburch]

138. You are most welcome. nt

[slackmaster]

129. Does "abstinent almost two and a half years" count?

:argh:

[mongo]

133. I think a group is a great idea

There are so many great articles on the political and social aspects of an "alternative" sexual lifestyle - and I would love to have a place to post some and find others.

I know that Ben and I at least read some of the same sources, but we each read others too. It would be a great place to share information.

You can count me in on the minority (I prefer alternative) lifestyle community.

[benburch]

139. I picked minority...

because it spoke better to the public policy implications. Framing is everything.

[noonwitch]

135. Is the Church Of All Worlds still in existence? The Green Egg isn't.

I used to love to read the Forumn in the Green Egg. From the looney letters from Tarotstar to Patricia Kenneally taking on the "Morrison Death Cult", there was always something there worth reading.

[benburch]

136. Yep. Much smaller now. But they still exist. nt

[MamaBear]

144. Unmarried ...

... and not co-habiting. According to most of my co-workers, that seems to make me odd enough. I don't engage in the practices you list because I'm just not that social (does not play well with others?), but I don't have a problem with other people having some fun.

Therefore, I'll vote yes for the creation of a group.

[benburch]

145. As we are at Level 3, and polls are off...

please bookmark this and check back later if you had meant to vote.

Thanks!

[benburch]

153. Polls are on again. nt

[Technowitch]

155. Locking

It's the Administrators that determine DU board policies, not the Moderators. Inquiries of this nature really ought to be directed to them via the Admin contact page.

Technowitch
DU Moderator