Republicans understand most Americans are dumb and ignorant...

[kentuck]

And they use that to their advantage. Unlike the Democrat, who try to talk to the American people like they are all college graduates, Republicans have mastered the PR of puttng their message on a bumpersticker or a very short soundbite. They can use a phrase as simple as "He's a liberal" to get their message across without having to say anything else.

I post this to balance the other similar post that some might have thought reflected poorly on the Democrats. :)

[_TJ_]

1. Why don't the demmy's counter with "He's a fascist!"

At least it would be discourse on the same intellectual level :-)

[etherealtruth]

3. What's a fascist ?

:evilgrin:

[tocqueville]

14. your sarcasm is right

Democrats have to reach to the American working class and use their own terminology. Unless you have these roots you'll be considered as "intellectuals".

From the deep of the masses which are not really "dumb" you'll find the vocabulary and the methods to counter your adversaries.

In France we never use the word "fascist" in daily speech but the word "facho" which is even more pejorative (and as a connotation to macho).

Some people on "liberal" radio and TV has to use the word everyday during months.

And remember a rally of 1000 steel workers is worth more than 1 million students

Don't have the tradition ?

invent it

[etherealtruth]

25. You have correctly identified the "anti-intellectualism" that exists ...

... in this country. When speaking to the masses one must speak in an understandable manner but AVOID speaking down to people.

Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter are masters at this (John Edwards shares this skill).

They are intellectuals able to convey a populist message in a sincere believable way.

Setting aside voting irregularities and the nations fear of replacing a "war" president, republicans were able to effectively portray John Kerry as an intellectual ... making him "suspect" in many peoples minds.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. I agree

I remember someone once kept talking about how rich Kerry was on this board and I'd mention how George Bush was born rich and all that and they totally ignored it and just turned it back to Kerry and Teresa. Somehow Bush has this whole "sit down and have a beer" type of thing. Sorry. I'd rather sit with someone who is actually smart and talk with them about issues and converse back and forth.

[yorgatron]

2. hey! shut yer librul mouth,i'm tryin ta watch

NASCAR...:crazy:

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. Yes, this is very true

The democrats lose out becuase we nuance and speak complexly. Most Americans can't deal with intelligent discourse, or thinkin' 'bout stuff, so when the republicans come along and say "Dems want to make God illegal!" or "Tort reform!" it works, and charges them up.

[thegreatwildebeest]

5. Yes college graduates...

...because as we all know, if you don't have a college degree, you're an ignorant, fool of a person. Clearly the single moms of America in low end service wage jobs are foul and stupid for not having the resources to go to college, as are those who have learned trades and skills. And what of those people who practice traditional, or try to anyways, indigenous lifeways? Clearly they are foul, uncivilized brutes.

All hail those with college degrees, even if they put their foots in their mouth, and issue dumb, myopic proclamations about other peoples intelligence without examining their own (or lack thereof).

[etherealtruth]

7. Oh come now ...

The pResident of the U.S. is a college graduate ... Oh, wait ...he's an imbecile.

[stepnw1f]

8. Who Are You Referring to..?

The poster or the Republicans the poster was speaking of?

And no... I do not condone elitism. But I did go to college. I hope that doesn't automatically make me an elitist.

[thegreatwildebeest]

13. The poster...

I'm tired of wanna be elitists ordaining themselves "Smarter" than people just because their a Democrat. And I don't have a problem with having a college degree (I have one and am going to law school) but the idea that somehow someone is "lower" or "higher" because of their presumed education, or lack thereof is ridiculous. I've known plenty of idiots in college, and plenty of thoughtful people who work in menial jobs. The point? Vague things on a piece of paper mean nothing. Screaming that people are a bunch of dullards may work if your working out of an electoral context (as I do), but if your trying to get votes, calling peoples idiots is pretty dumb.

[stepnw1f]

20. The Poster Was Talking ABout The Republican Attitude towards Folks

here: "Unlike the Democrat, who try to talk to the American people like they are all college graduates..."

Hope that clears things up.

And yes there are those on both sides I'm sure that look down on people who don't have a degree, as stupid as that is.

[thegreatwildebeest]

22. I disagree...

In a much similar post down in the forum this same poster essentially said that Democrats must dumb down their message because the American public is dumb. When he/she says Republicans understand that the "American people" are dumb and ignorant and he/she agrees with them, and is saying that the Dem's, who supposedly try a higher caliber of discourse (the so called college graduates), are screwing themselves. I think thats elitist and ridiculous. Unless she/she asserts to the contrair I believe they agree with the basic idea that American's are dumb and ignorant.

[kentuck]

24. I agree...

:)

[stepnw1f]

26. Well, Then...

I disagree with the assertion that anyone has to "dumb-down". I would add that people shouldn't be viewed as being stupid, but instead ignorant to politics and policy.

[kentuck]

28. Basically, Repubs understand how to communicate with the lowest...

common denominator. They do not discuss issues in the same depth or detail as Democrats. Because they know that most Americans buy the best PR bullshit and they lay it on thick and heavy. Many college graduates even buy into their bullshit. "Support the Troops" they say on the back of their elitist SUVs. Yes, they are patriotic because they support the lying George Bush.

Yes, I am saying Democrats need to simplify, dumb down, or whatever you wish to call it, to connect with these people. That does not mean they have to be dishonest about it, as are the Republican assholes.

[stepnw1f]

30. Whoah ,woah...

You don't have to tell me... I understood the post and I in no way am agreeing with the assertion that the poster was trying to be condescending. My take is somebody was, and I was trying to diffuse that argument with reason.

O8)

[thegreatwildebeest]

29. Which then adds...

...to the fact that why should anyone have to become a mini policy wonk to have to understand the absolutely friggan dense world of politics. I'm was a Poli Sci major and most of politics comes off as arbritary, capricious, and absolutely byzantine. I get fed up with it and I basically am a political junkie. What does that say about someone whose job and interests aren't in politics? You see this massive, mutli headed hydra and just throw up your hands and call it a day. After getting beat into the ground for so long, and completely convinced that nothing can ever change, who cares about voting, or the difference between rich, white guy x and rich, white guy y? Democrats aren't going to win just because they can "bumper sticker" their messages, and even if they did, it probably wouldn't change much. Radical change is necessary, not mere window dressing and choosing new bosses (same as the old boss).

[kentuck]

33. At least Bush is Christian and he is honest...

And he's willing to fight them "over there so we don't have to fight them over here". We haven't been attacked since 9/11. And he never got a blowjob in the Oval Office. either you are with us or you are against us. Bring it on!

[stepnw1f]

34. Nobody Said People Should Become "a mini policy wonk"

You did. In fact, I'm not sure I even know what that means.

[Rabrrrrrr]

46. But Americans ARE dumb and ignorant

republicans go for the fourth grade level of intellect.

Dems go for the nuanced college-level of intellect.

The media also go for the fourth grade level of intellect.

Why is this so? Because there are way more people at the fourth grade level, than at the college level. Sadly, even a lot of college grads are still at the fourth grade level.

Yes, democrats need to dumb things down.

Does this mean the average laborer is an ignorant fuck? Of course not. I have been in two unions, and at no time was I an ignorant piece of shit. Sure worked with a lot of 'em, though. Also went to college with a lot of 'em.

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. Wow, talk about taking something entirely out of context

and running with it to its wildly illogical conclusion.

Nicely done!

:applause:

[thegreatwildebeest]

19. Wow talk about not reading a post...

...and trying to cover up their own elitist bias. Let's take apart the original statement shall we?

And they use that to their advantage. Unlike the Democrat, who try to talk to the American people like they are all college graduates,

That automatically assumes that all college graduates are on a level above msot of the American people. This is of course, utter and complete bull. As someone whose organized amongst unions, saying a guy whose a janitor is an idiot because he doesn't have a college education is friggan ridiculous.

Republicans have mastered the PR of puttng their message on a bumpersticker or a very short soundbite.

And Democrat's yelling facist or voter fraud isn't equally one sided? Is that an example of nuanced discussion? Is this post even an example of that.

They can use a phrase as simple as "He's a liberal" to get their message across without having to say anything else.

Is that any different than when Dem's call someone a neo-con, or a "repuglican" or any other sort of names that automatically, and mindlessly, make someone issue a battle cry against someone.

I post this to balance the other similar post that some might have thought reflected poorly on the Democrats

And this just more poorly reflects the Democrats.

[kentuck]

21. Nice distortion, wildebeast...

If you think John Kerry connected more with the common folk than George Bush, then I think are hallucinating. John Kerry did not explain his positions or the issues in a simple and plain way, that the "average" person could connect with. Perhaps college graduates could understand where he was coming from, but not the Average Joe. To think these voters understand complex political issues, may make you feel better, but it is out of touch with reality.

[thegreatwildebeest]

27. I didn't distort anything...

If you think John Kerry connected more with the common folk than George Bush, then I think are hallucinating.

I didn't say that, nor do I think that.

John Kerry did not explain his positions or the issues in a simple and plain way, that the "average" person could connect with.

John Kerry didn't offer a real alternative, other than vague proclamations to "handle the war" better, and give us a little less of trade agreement hegemony, and maybe a little less environmental destruction. There was no "better" way to explain the absolute piddling differences between him and Bush.

Perhaps college graduates could understand where he was coming from, but not the Average Joe.

No the average Joe understood quite correctly what was going on. That's why 40% of those who could, didn't even vote. That's why rates of voting are horrendous in non-federal elections, and in the elections between off years. Most people understand that the game is rigged.

To think these voters understand complex political issues, may make you feel better, but it is out of touch with reality.

Actually, most people understand alot more than people give them credit for. I see this is rank and file unionism, where the rank and file workers know more of the reality than their so called "labor leaders". People aren't dumb, they just don't like bullshit.

[kentuck]

31. "No the average Joe understood quite correctly what was going on."

Really? They knew what was going on with the lies about the War and the mess we were getting ourselves in in Iraq? They knew everything that the Bush Administration was doing and they still voted for them? And that's not dumb or ignorant?

[thegreatwildebeest]

36. Considering...

...40% of this country didn't even vote, I would say that a good chunk understand the fundamental lie of our so called democracy, which its completely useless and bankrupt for affecting real change. Then there are the people who didn't buy the ABB rhetoric and voted for third parties of a progressive nature. They too realized that the two party duopoly is rigged. If you throw in those who can't vote because they aren't "Citizens", plus illegal immigrants, and reflect on the poor showing before the 2004 elections, you realize that most of the time half of America doesn't give a damn about politics, or isn't allowed to participate in a fundamental way, and they probably don't beleive theres anything they can do to change them. I don't begrudge them that.

[kentuck]

38. "...40% of this country didn't even vote"

You cannot assume they didn't vote because they understand the "fundamental lie"? They may have been even dumber and less informed than the majority that voted for Bush and his lies.

[thegreatwildebeest]

39. That may be true...

...the statistics really aren't there either way. Choosing not to vote is at the least an admission that you don't care about politics, or what happens, or it could be because you really don't think it matters, or alot of different reasons. There are some religious sects that discourage voting, for a variety of reasons, as there are political segments that discourage voting (anarchists come to mind). Theres a bevy of reasons why anyone would not vote. More than likely though, if people did believe voting was important they would do it, or atleast a vast majority (and not just 60%, but more like 80 or 90%) would. Clearly that is not the case, and thats indicative of a lack of faith in it, even if the reasons for that lack of vary.

[kentuck]

40. And some people don't like to stand in lines for 6 hours...?

You are correct that there are no statistics either way. However, in my conversations with many people that do not vote, they are totally disconnected from any political importance in their lives. Many owuld prefer to watch Survivor. I would tend to agree it is the Democrats fault for not communicating with these people. We can call them dumb, ignorant, misinformed, apathetic, or whatever, but I would not want to depend on them to save our country.

[DiverDave]

23. WOW, talk about building a strawman!

Democrats try and explain everything that a HIGH SCHOOL graduate can understand.
Repukes scare and twist the truth and lie.

Tell me, oh smart one, if gays marry, will MY marriage be in trouble?

OF COURSE NOT, but the spin miesters over at GOPuke HQ think that it works...and it did.:banghead:

So, as President Clinton once said "when people THINK about the issues, they vote DEMOCRATIC..."

Nice try though, now go back and tell your buddies you were teated badly here.

[thegreatwildebeest]

32. What are you talking about?

Tell me, oh smart one, if gays marry, will MY marriage be in trouble?

Ummm...no. But then again, who needs to be married? As my radical queer friends tell me "Why should my sexuality be defined by heteronormative and monogamous terms?" I have to say I agree.


So, as President Clinton once said "when people THINK about the issues, they vote DEMOCRATIC..."

The same President that gave us NAFTA? Workfare? War in Kosovo? Hmmm...


Nice try though, now go back and tell your buddies you were teated badly here.

My buddies? You mean my anarchist collective? I'm sure they would get a hoot out of the elitism apparent here. I'm sure my non-college, service job friends and associates would roll over laughing.

[Rabrrrrrr]

45. And now you are somewhat proving your point

Democrat speak: "Why should my sexuality be defined by heteronormative and monogamous terms?"

Republican speak: "If gays marry, YOUR traditional Christian man-woman marriage WILL BE DESTROYED!!!!!"

See?

Frist et. al. are not going to use words like "heteronormative" - they will use "traditional", "standard", "normal", "american", and "Christian", possibly "judeo-Christian" if they need something from the Jews at the moment.

[halsaxby]

18. College degrees...

don't mean much anymore, either. Universities, like most of the public education system, have been been systematically dumbed down over the last 35 years. Higher education has a vested interest in dumbing it down, as it's not good business to flunk out the customers. IMHO, it is this dumbing down that has allowed the current state of affairs in this country come about.

[Fovea]

6. Vote Repub in 06...

Eat the Poor!

Vote Republican 06!
Vote for the Draft!

Bring back Social Security.
Bring back jobs.
Bring back the middle class.
Vote Democratic in 06!

America is great--
But the world is bigger.
Vote Democratic in 06.

Vote Republican for
less fuel efficiency!

Lower taxes for the super rich
vote republican in 06!

Vote republican
for 4 more years of
catastrophic success!

More great Walmart Jobs!
Vote Republican 06

[SouthernDem2004]

10. Or maybe post like this are a sign of the classism and elitism that

plagues the Democratic Party. The "I am better and smarter then you" mentality. Alot of people with different views may find it insulting. Just like the Southern state bashing that often goes on. If you ever wonder why Rublicans and some moderated do not listen just read post like this.

Imagine walking up to someone and saying, "Hey moron, You are uneducated, stupid and a sheeple that is always wrong. Would you please vote for this candidate or read this flyer on DSM?"

What reaction do you think you will get???


Peace

[Karenina]

15. Pride goeth before a fall.

[dchill]

11. Once again, Forrest Gump...

Stupid is as stupid does.

[nytemare]

12. "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think" Adolf Hitler

Karl Rove, taking his examples from the master.

Scary, isn't it?

[allalone]

16. don't know about dumb

but ignorant yes. I know an engineer for a major manufacturer of aircraft that doesn't know who kkkarl rove is.

[kentuck]

17. They think CAFTA has something to do with a farm program...?

And if their leader says it is a good thing, then they believe him. They don't need to know anything more...

[Vinca]

35. I don't know about dumb and ignorant, but

I've just about had it with Republicans referring to the "liberal elite" when most of them holding office have great wealth and have graduated from pricey schools such as Harvard and Yale. Maybe we should start batting them on the head with "conservative elite."

[Zinfandel]

37. So if television media, creates the images for the 80% dumb folk...

in this country. The television media will make up the dumb folks minds about a person, an issue, an event...as well as what's omitted and kept quiet because dumb folks won't seek it out for themselves.

And if the same television media is owned, (and they are) by republicans and their corporations... Disney, Murdoch, General Electric, Time-Warner and Viacom, (Oh yeah & the 20 mil sheep network, CBN) Pat Robetson...

That surely would explain why there is a one party system in our fascist nation of America and the corporations (and republicans) are firmly and in complete control.

[cquik18]

41. This ties in to something I posted earlier....AWG's..

Angry White Guys. Summed up, Angry White Guys are not all necessarily guys, white, or even angry. It's a mindset that the Repukes have made a very profitable living catering to. These poor souls like to put the blame for their mediocre lives on the n----rs, wetbacks, spics, poor white trash, kikes, wops, Russkies, krauts, fags, dykes, chinks, Japs, gooks, limeys, micks, Aussies, Frenchies, towelheads, injuns, punjabs, spearchuckers, Catholics, liberals, moderates, peaceniks, long-haired hippy-types...anyone I forget to mention?

They also have four presets on their car radios: the country and western radio station, the classic rock station, the sports talk station, and the Rush Limbaugh station-BET ON IT!

AWG's all have common interests, mainly guns, football (insert your particular regional league or NFL team here), beer and porn. The porn ain't a bad thing, LOL! The football ain't bad either- NFL preseason starts at the end of next week, folks, YAY! Come to think of it, the beer ain't bad either...

AWG's also love war, provided they or their children don't have to go. You have some morons that are in the military and actually WANT to go over to Iraq or Afghanistan- as a veteran of the military myself, I KNOW this for a fact!

AWG's also love big, obnoxious-sounding pickup trucks or SUV's that gulp gas, yet they use it as a daily driver while whining about high gas prices...I own a classic muscle car, and I've relegated myself to driving it on weekends because of the cost!

A quick sidebar: my opinion on pickup truck is this: No city person should own a pickup unless you're a mechanic, in construction, or a landscaper...farmers in rural America are of course exempted, they NEED a truck! But city and suburban guys tooling around town in a Hemi Dodge/Ford F-150/Chevy are just saying, "I have a small penis!"

AWG's love Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney, and any other Coca-Cola cowboy "hat acts"...but it's a safe bet they wouldn't be caught dead at a Willie Nelson concert...you know he's an advocate for "mar-jew-ana"!

AWG's, for all the brainwashing they receive from Limbaugh/Hannity/Fox News on family values, also have one or two ex-wives somewhere in their past. I know of a couple of guys with whom I served who had FOUR ex-wives! And got married AGAIN!

So, yes, the right wing machine DOES have its constituency...the challenge is to convince them that their gods are NOT hearing their supplications...personally, I say "SCREW 'EM!"

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Oh of course

Don't forget their ability to control their image. If they want to be seen as a "pro-life" "Christian" person they'd be seen as that even if it's complete opposite (see George Bush). It's true as well. Also see how Jon Stewart does to Kerry whenever he talks (such as his recent interview about Lance Armstrong). That really ticks me off personally because Kerry is a really brilliant person and he is very thoughtful in everything he says and Stewart makes him sound boring and he is encouraging these one-liners.

[leeroysphitz]

44. Like Bob says...

Act like a dumbass and they'll treat you as an equal.