Anyone in here believe Bush and Cheney knew nothing about outing plame?

[Imagevision]

Yes/No/Maybe??

[Pam-Moby]

1. NO n/t

[lonestarnot]

2. Hell no!

[FloridaPat]

3. It was probably one of their ideas.

[etherealtruth]

4. Knew nothing?

I'm inclined to believe they orchestrated it!

[wli]

5. knew nothing? Cheney probably ordered it in front of the chimp

[Catbird]

6. Not me

If either of them didn't know about it, he is incompetent as well as dishonest.

[Maru Kitteh]

7. Oh hell no

are you kidding?

[Imagevision]

9. what makes you say that?

[Jack Rabbit]

8. I think they both knew what was going on

They both knew it was very important that they not get their fingerprints on the evidence.

Rove and Libby are more than willing to take the fall and expect to be pardoned, probably with good reason.

[Imagevision]

12. When Rove said; "he's probaly said too much already I believe he

discussed Plame outing with Cheney first. - To go out on his own to talk to Cooper is stretching his personal power...

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Rove was put up to this

He may be good at what he does, even a genius, if you'd like, but what Karl Rove really is when all is said and done is a glorified political hatchet man. I cannot be convinced that in his normal day-to-day duties he is concerned with who's who in Langley or which semi-retired diplomat is sent on special assignment to Niger. Did he know Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame from Adam and Eve? I doubt it. Somebody put him up to this.

My guess is that it was Cheney, but whether Cheney was directly involved will never be proved. Neither Rove nor Libby will finger him. Those two are willing to take the fall. Libby could have done it as well, but one should surmise that if Libby knew then Cheney knew. Again, even if Cheney knew, you won't find his fingerprints on this smoking gun.

Rove and Libby had press contacts; one was a source to some reporters and the other to other reporters. Then each would confirm the story to the reporters the other contacted. All they needed was one person to run with the story. Robert Novak came through for them like a champ.

The idea was to discredit Wilson. If his wife's cover was blown in the process, c'est la guerre.

Ironically, they never discredited Wilson.

[H2O Man]

25. I agree.

I think that is the correct context.

[KerryOn]

10. They are probably the guilty ones. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Nothing happens without them saying so

It'll ruin their whole plans. I believe the Bush is dumb act is just that. An act. Just like the cowboy act and the liberal media myth. So if he ever did something like this he could play dumb and someone else fall for him and he'd be clean.

[peacetalksforall]

13. Think Cheney first. He is head of PNAC and a Halliburton profiteer.

He has a shady past in wmd (read American Judas on DU). He was/is the leader in the war on Iraq along with his PNAC brothers.

Bush entered the picture when they told him there was someone messin' with his speech and Cheney's war and when he saw a chance to take revenge - his special reason for using capital and acting from his soul.

Think large and small.

Think strategic and knee-jerk.

Think how arrogant one can be that they either didn't consult lawyers or ignored them out of confidence in their ability to pull of a fraud in front of the entire country.

There isn't anyone at the level of Rove, Libby, Rice, Card, Bartlett, Powell, Bolton, Hadley who gets to call the shots over Cheney.

Did they consult lawyers when the original Niger documents were forged?

Did they consult lawyers when the file was carried on board AF1 and passed around in view of reporters?

If they consulted lawyers, did they consult the Federalist Society or just Ashcroft or the AG? Think about who else might be involved.

I repeat - Rove Libby and all the others did not have carte blanche. If they thought they did, they must also think they are P or VP.

[Pepperbelly]

14. I expect that both of them knew ... and were complicit in coverup. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Hell no!

I say it was Cheney's brainchild. Remember, he had a very cozy relationship at the CIA. He planted his ass there for months looking for an excuse to attack Iraq. He no doubt planted the idea. Wasn't it his office that sent Wilson to Niger? His fingerprints are all over the Plame Affair.

[Zen Democrat]

16. Everything I know about Bush indicates he's immature and vengeful.

I think he knew about the Wilson article. And when he found out about Wilson's wife (from Powell? Condi?) on that plane going to Africa, he had Fleischer put in a call to Rove ... and I think Bush probably told Rove to get to Cheney's office on this. I believe Rove, Cheney and Libby cooked this up and called in Judy Miller to put the poison pen to it. But Judy didn't write it ... she spearheaded the spreading of the word, with Rove and Libby standing by to "confirm."

Judy's not in jail for protecting sources. Judy's in jail to avoid the inevitable choice between committing perjury or ratting out Rove/Cheney/Libby. She prefers going to jail as a martyr protecting sources. I don't think Fitzgerald is fooled.

[LibDemAlways]

17. If it was a movie, the credits would

read "Produced and Directed by Dick Cheney, based on an original story by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby with additional material provided by John Bolton." At the very end, just before the lights came up, the following would briefly appear: "The makers of this film extend special thanks to George W. Bush for his generous cooperation and unfailing support that made this production possible."

[Stirk]

18. Their initial treatment of the subject convinces me that they knew.

They gingerly stepped all around the issue with legalistic non-statements. Besides, it's just in their character. It's the sort of thing they'd do.

I definitely think they knew.

[thinkingwoman]

19. Uh, no. Not for a second. nt

[leftofthedial]

20. anyone here wanna buy a bridge in New York?

I also have some prime real estate in Yellowstone I could sell you.

[Freedomfried]

21. They all discussed it over a few martinis

well, except for George, he stuck with beer only because he used to be an alcoholic.

[burrowowl]

23. No

Bu$h's unbrain may have forgotten or had a data dump.

[moodforaday]

24. I do, though.

I believe they're not telling Bush anything, because he wouldn't understand any of it anyway and he'd only screw it up.

In all seriousness, I do think Cheney et al keep Bush out of the loop. On 9-11 his role was to read My Pet Goat, no reason to believe this has changed.

[Vinca]

26. I'm thinking there's a Cheney/Judy Miller connection. nt

[bklyncowgirl]

27. Sgt. Schultz defense: We see nothing, We hear nothing, We know nothing

That's their story and they're sticking to it.

The rest are throwing their bodies in front of them to save them.

[B Calm]

28. Of course they knew!