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When will we negotiate with terrorists ?: my view

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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:41 AM
Original message
When will we negotiate with terrorists ?: my view
Edited on Sun Jul-10-05 08:43 AM by WearyOne
please indulge me and discuss :
*********************************

When will we negotiate with terrorists ?

I lived in London from 1973 to 1987 and grew to love the place and feel as many do, that I was a honorary Londoner . It was a happy time, I was young and had a good job, money to spend and I lived around the Notting Hill Gate area, a far more fun place than it is now since it it's been discovered and become the smartest and most expensive area of London.

Our peace was shattered one night returning home on a bus from the West End. We were stopped by a police cordon. Word quickly spread that a bomb had been found in the entrance of my local supermarket in Kensington Church Street and was being diffused by an expert.

The low booming dull thud that reverberated about a minute later was a sound I will never forget. Completely unlike an explosion seen in a movie , the IRA bomb had exploded killing the police bomb disposal expert, a man of around 40 who was to become another forgotten victim in the IRA campaigns.

I heard another such thud one morning about 7am just as I awoke and instantly recognized the sound. A politician in nearby upper- market Holland Park had been killed by a bomb when he started his Jaguar, parked outside his house in a beautiful leafy square.

In 1983 I had moved to Marble Arch, it was about 11am on a gorgeous sunny Saturday morning and I was strolling across Hyde Park. I was off to Harrods for lunch with my honeymooning friend , Steven and his new wife . Midway across Hyde Park I heard that familiar thud again, this time much larger and noisier. Seconds later I saw the huge pall of smoke begin to rise above the general area of Harrods. I now knew from experience to continue would be useless. The chaos, the police street cordons would completely block the area. I would talk to Steven and his wife later. They would understand.

I never got to speak to Steven ever again. Part of our lunch was to be a celebration as Steven, at 26 had landed a job writing a column on a Fleet Street newspaper. Being the keen young reporter he was he had got wind of drama happening in Harrods as police had begun to clear the store. He probably thought this would be a scoop of his life and had left his new bride and ran to the direction where much of the action seemed to be. Steven headed straight into the blast of a massive car bomb that blew his unrecognizable body to the roof of Harrods, six stories high. I only knew what had happened when I read the story in the newspaper he was to join, 3 days later.

Throughout all these horrific IRA bombs which killed over 650 civilians from Belfast to London, Brighton and pubs and railways stations through the UK any number of politicians would appear on the telly,or radio or leader writers in Fleet Street newspapers would produce the same waffle " We will never be defeated "-
" London will never cave into Terrorist's demands !" etc etc. On and on it went.

These weren't the feelings I felt in the weeks that followed my friend's death. I raged with hate and railed against the entire Irish nation including my distant relatives there. I wasn't full of resolve to "carry on" and "go back to normal". I wanted revenge upon anyone . I was even filled with suspicion about Queenie, the lovable diminutive Irish lady from Cork who lived opposite and cleaned my flat twice a week. I knew my feelings of hate and distress weren't rational but emotional. Of course I bloody well knew they wouldn't 'defeat' us. How could they possibly kill all 8 million Londoners ? All they could do was kill a few at a time.

The rest is history. For all their fine worlds the politicians did negotiate with terrorists and the IRA ,and a type of peace was achieved with the 1998 Good Friday Accord and followed by a continuing cease fire agreement in 2004.

And that's what I thought when I saw the horrific events unfold in London over the past few days. Now we face an enemy probably far more sophisticated and better financed than the IRA ever dreamed of.

If Al Quaeda could bring down the World Trade Centre in 2001 with a handful of men and a few box cutters these type of attacks in London, meticulously planned, are a snip. As soon as the talk dies down and western life gets back to normal as it always does, somewhere someone will pay a horrible price and our politicians will again line up to say "We will not be defeated". But it won't be them paying the price. They are well protected. They don't catch tube trains or the No 30 bus. It's us civilians who usually die and become the forgotten victims with only families and friends left to grieve.

Eventually a time will come when we have to negotiate with terrorist groups like Al Quaeda.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. You've already missed it.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. Heard on the radio this AM that the Iraqi govt is having face-to-face
Edited on Sun Jul-10-05 08:54 AM by BrklynLiberal
meeting with the "insurgents" right now. BushCo would deny this, of course, but the report said that the Iraqis are trying to drive a wedge between the "home grown" insurgents and those that have come in thru the unguarded borders.

For what it is worth..that is what they reported on BBC news this morning.

EDIT: I was half asleep when I heard the report. I guess the US govt was in on the talks, based on the articles in the previous post.

So explain to me again..Why are our boys and girls dying in Iraq, while we are NEGOTIATING with the "TERRORISTS"??
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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I must be psychic then !
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. At least prescient!!!!
;-)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. When it's politically convenient to do so.
At some point we will negotiate with the "terrorists" because they are winning.

The French ended up negotiating with the Algerian and Vietnamese "terrorists".

The Brits ended up negotiating with the Irish "terrorists".

The white South Africans ended up negotiating with the ANC "terrorists".

Israel has had to negotiate with the Palestinian "terrorists".

The Americans ended up negotiating with the Viet Cong "terrorists".

At some point we will have to surrender to the inevitable and negotiate with the "terrorists".

Of course, when we finally do negotiate, the "terrorists" will be called something like "The Responsible Representatives of the Middle-Eastern Resistance".

The negotiations will be long and drawn out and the surrender will be called a "Victory" or "Peace with Honor".

And the bosses who engineered the slaughter, on both sides, will go home and be congratulated for achieving "peace" and build monuments to the dead that they can use to start the next war.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. EXCELLENT! A perfect description of the George Orwell view of "victory"...
Edited on Sun Jul-10-05 09:55 AM by BrklynLiberal
:wtf:

Anything so they can justify the money and the lives they wasted to make their cronies rich.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. stunning post
ne·go·ti·ate < n-gsh-t >
v. ne·go·ti·at·ed, ne·go·ti·at·ing, ne·go·ti·ates
v. intr.

To confer with another or others in order to come to terms or reach an agreement: "It is difficult to negotiate where neither will trust" (Samuel Johnson).

(and why wouldn't we at least attempt to save innocent lives through confering with another or others?


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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. many thanks
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. How do you negotiate with terrorists
When they believe YOU are the terrorist?
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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
14.  to tell the truth : I have no idea to. I just cannot bear to see the
lives snuffed out the way they were this week in London..and Baghdad and the misery that follows for family and friends.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think this is a different brand of terrorist.
They are religious fascists and want all non-muslim fundamentalists dead or converted. They have stated that that is their intention. Not for us to leave the middle-east, not for us to leave them alone, but for us to convert or die. How do we negotiate with that?
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Link?
I thought Bin Laden's goals were more immediate and tangible, such as the U.S. exit from Saudi Arabia.
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bilgewaterbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Bin Laden isn't the only wahabbist. He wasn't the first.
He won't be the last. He isn't even part of this equation. I'll try to find you the link(s).
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-10-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. There is a HUGE difference between terrorists in Ulster, Palestine,
or Iraq on one hand and transnational Islamist nihilists on the other.

There can and will be no negotiations with AQ terrorists. I will campaign to defeat any politician who suggests it.
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