Ask the Police: Part III

[SouthernDem2004]

Greetings,

I started a couple of these threads a months ago and found them to be interesting. It is not often you can ask the Police a question and get a honest answer. Please feel free to ask away.

The reason I started another thread is that there is someone posting on DU that is giving out bad information. They are making false claims from their resume to actual case law. I find this to be dangerous. When you have contact with the Police or court system you should be informed and have the correct information.

Let me say this about Miranda warnings, They are only required for custodial interrogations. They are actually not read that often. It is mainly done for felonies and DUIs. Most of the time they are not read.

Also, the Police are not required to tell you what you are being charged with at the actual time of arrest. I personally do not tell them until they are handcuffed. It is a safety issue. No point in getting someone agitated until they are secured.

So, if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

FYI: I do not respond to personal attacks or profanity. I believe in civil discourse. I try to treat people the way they treat me. I know alot of people do not like the Police. The Police write citations and arrest people, tends to make people unhappy.


Peace

[Coexist]

1. I have heard that police officers gave out bad information

at protests - misstating laws to make protesters think that they were not allowed where they were.

Also, have you ever been instructed to do anything like that to avert a riot (or whatever).

[SouthernDem2004]

9. Your first statement is probably correct.

They could have given false info by mistake or on purpose. Most likely they did it on purpose.

I have never personal been instructed to do so. There are so many obscure laws on the books that you can usually find a reason to move people.

[Coexist]

16. thanks for the answer.

[AX10]

2. So you are a cop then?

[SouthernDem2004]

11. Yes and have been for a number of years.

[anarchy1999]

134. Maybe you know my uncle or have heard of him. He is a bondsman now

in Southern California. Thanks for all you do. I hope you are not any part of the corruption that took my uncle out.

[bpilgrim]

3. why do police TASER NON-VIOLENT women, children, sick and old folks?

even PREGNANT WOMEN?

but more importantly, HOW do we get them do stop this practice :shrug:

tia :toast:

peace

(on edit: TASERS ARCHIVE

links to articles here...
http://www.infowars.com/subject_archives/ps/tasers_archive.htm

Taser Death in Lake City

Officer Quits Over Use Of Taser on Suspect

March 10, 2005 Man Tasered In Hospital Bed, Forced To Give Urine Sample

Officer Shoots Student With Taser Gun

Taser International Propaganda: Zogby Poll Shows Three-in-Four Americans Support Use of TASER(TM) Devices

Cop accidentally stuns fellow officer with Taser

Sanford man dies when tasered by police

Mother whose teenage son was shocked 16 times by police plans to sue

Police defend use of Taser on girl, 13

Police use Taser on man at eatery

Police say using Taser on cat appropriate

Five Officers Face Disciplinary Charges In Stun Gun Case

Taser moratorium sought in Texas

Man with heart ailment dies after being shocked with Taser

County cops address Taser threat

Police fear civilian taser popularity

Tased and confused: Lifesaver, lethal weapon, aid for crowd control, tool of torture?

Ohio county halts Taser use after death

Taser gun safety is questioned as 85 die

Man begs police not to use stun gun on him during raid

Police Taser and Target the Disabled

Taser announces $675K in stun gun orders

Man Dies After Being Shot With Taser

Man who died after Taser stun was facing trial

Suspect hit by Taser on 9 occasions; 41-year-old died 4 hours after his arrest at art museum

Are Tasers too risky for police officers to use?

Taser to Increase Stun Gun's Power: NY Times

Four teens Tasered in scuffle with Miami-area cops

Is the Taser a safer alternative for a police firearm, or is it a ethal weapon?

Naked Jogger Tasered, Arrested By Arkansas Police

Heart expert warns about using Tasers

Fans Zapped by Tasers at Football Game

Eugene police set aside plans for Tasers

Pacifica Taser Gun Death Under Investigation

Jarring death rate fuels flap over police, Tasers

Jarring death rate fuels flap over police, Tasers

Teen dies after being shot with Taser gun by Collier County Deputies

Officer's injury tied to Taser

Taser, Inc. Gets Research Contract From DoD

Miami Police Use Taser To Subdue Wheelchair-Bound Man

Fla. Officer Uses Stun Gun on 12- Year-Old

Tempe OKs Taser guns for 9 schools

Man Dies After Police Use Taser Gun On Him

Cameras Roll As Police Use Taser Gun To Subdue Suspect

Maker Defends Taser, Stun-Gun in the Sights of Scandal

Homeland Security nominee Kerik sat on board of stun-gun maker

5 of 7 hit with Tasers were not violent

Dead Inmate was Tasered twice

Police are too Quick to Grab for Taser's Power, Say Critics

Warning on Police Use of Stun Guns After 74 Die

Taser on children OK, police say

School Official Asks Police to Stop Tasers

Cops Taser 14-Year-Old Who Wouldn't Drop Game Boy

Police review policy after Tasers used on kids

Police used Taser gun to subdue 6-year-old student wielding piece of glass

Police State Targets, Tasers, Arrests and Jails Elementary School Children

FAA OKs Tasers on Commercial Flights

November 05, 2004] Man Dies After Police Use Stun Gun on Him

Police defend current weapons

Police Accused Of Firing Taser At Pregnant Bride

ShockRounds(TM) and Electric Shock Weapons in Law Enforcement

Pentagon Looks to Directed-Energy Weapons

Officer's Taser is used on girl, 9

Man Accuses Police of Brutality with Tasers

The Pentagon's Secret Scream

links to articles here...
http://www.infowars.com/subject_archives/ps/tasers_archive.htm

[SouthernDem2004]

12. When people refuse to comply with a lawful order force is then used.

There are numerous cases of misuse. The training and concept of stun weapons needs to be refined. There is no simple answer of how to correct the abuse. I am afraid it is going to take numerous Officers losing lawsuits before changes occur.

[bpilgrim]

14. lawsuits

i agree

thank you :toast:

peace

[AX10]

44. I hope that a lot of lawsuits are brought up and someone with..

a ton of money would consider taking the case. In America, the only way to punish wrong doers is to "hit them in their wallet". When cops use tazer guns on non violent offenders, minors, and senior citizens, those cops need to have their bank accounts cleaned out and the police fired.

[screembloodymurder]

211. If I'm questioned and I refuse to give a statement

can I be tasered for not cooperating? My heart would not recover from a stun gun so I guess I'd better fess up to whatever crime they think I committed. Better to be in prison than dead.

[SouthernDem2004]

218. Nope, can not stun someone for not giving a statement.

You have to physically cooperate but thats it.

[name not needed]

4. Would you explain why

so many police officers feel the need to use excessive force to get a suspect to comply?

[SouthernDem2004]

15. Depends on what you mean by excessive force.

Tasers are not excessive force when used properly. What some people may consider excessive is not what Police consider excessive. The best way to take a resistive person into custody is to incapacitate them. Stun weapons do this. Pain compliance with tools such as OC (pepper spray) are hit and miss. Sometimes they work and sometimes they do not. Basicly, damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

[cestpaspossible]

98. some people may consider excessive is not what Police consider excessive.

uh... yeah, you can say that again.

[SouthernDem2004]

99. Odd, Police considered that excessive. A clip from 1991. nice...

[cestpaspossible]

102. They did? They considered it excessive? Is that why Stacey Koon said

"This is great! They got it on tape! Now we'll have a live, in-the-field film to show police recruits. It can be a real life example of how to use escalating force properly."
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingownwords.html


A friend of mine actually shared a cell with Koon for awhile. No, Koon did not believe he used excessive force. As you correctly point out, some disagree.

[Warpy]

5. I view contact with the police on the same level as going to the dentist

and I'd never go out of my way to be rude to a dentist or other professional, even if I might be scared out of my wits, in pain, or in any other crisis that required their services.

It also helps that I'm clean and sober.

Seriously, thanks for those thoughts on Miranda. We get too used to the shows people Mirandized for broken tail lights and there's a lot of misunderstanding out there. The point about not informing someone of charges until they're restrained is well taken, too.

[sweetheart]

6. How do you see medical marijuana

If someone uses medical marijuana in their home for pain, are you
break in, shake them down and arrest them? Would you refuse to act on
such things, because of your conscience and your heart?

[SouthernDem2004]

21. Well...

We can not enter someones house without Probable Cause in the first place.

Police have the discreation to arrest on misdemeanors with the exception of domestic violence. In most cases if it is a small amount I just destroy it in their prescence be it for medical or recreational purposes.

You maybe surprised to know that most Officers support legalizing marijuana, atleast all the ones I know. These are Republicans too. We actually talk about it all the time. If I had my way I would legalize marijuana and ban alcohol.

[yebrent]

23. ya don't say?

Check out my thread about the Supreme Court decision today and how the Democrats need to use this issue in 2006.

[sweetheart]

28. cool.

Thanks for that.

[TX-RAT]

126. ban alcohol?

That alone would solve about 65% of all domestics.

[ProfessorGAC]

185. Oh Yeah. Banning Alcohol Worked So Well The First Time

Sheesh! It didn't stop domestic violence before, did it? People will get alcohol no matter the ban. Banning it solves nothing. Education and treatment for abusers is the answer, not bans.
The Professor

[TX-RAT]

192. It didn't stop domestic violence before, did it?

Don't know, wasn't around during Prohibition, was you? First let me say i don't think you could ever successfully ban alcohol, the people won't allow it.
One thing of interest. In TX we have many dry counties ( no alcohol sales ) I've never compared the domestic violence rate of dry counties, to wet counties, but i would go out on a limb, and say the wet counties have a higher number of cases. I'll also go out on a limb and say, 75 to 80 percent of all domestics I've responded to involved alcohol, either by one party or both.
I'm in no way suggesting we should ban alcohol, ( been known to drink a little Crown Royal myself) I'm just saying, if we did successfully ban it, that would be one of the results. Along with the thousands of lives it would save in alcohol related traffic accidents.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. Have you ever started a thread about any other topic besides the Police?

:-)

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Lol, yes... One I had questions about Canada, one questions about the EU

and a couple others about politics. :)

[brokensymmetry]

8. A really off-the-wall question

I regard Peak Oil as a likely future problem; if it does occur, it would certainly affect law enforcement and would (in my opinion) increase the crime rate and also the likelihood of civil unrest. This would happen at the same time that city budgets would be under a lot of pressure.

So...are departments even considering the possibility yet? Should they be?

[SouthernDem2004]

24. I do not consider Peak Oil or subscribe to it.

Yes, oil will run out at some point but some of the projections saying it will start in 07 or 08 seem a little off.

I have never heard Peak Oil mentioned anywhere but here. Aside from Police websites and some news sites I do not read anything else. This is the only non-Police forum I read.

[misanthrope]

39. Dude...

"I have never heard Peak Oil mentioned anywhere but here. Aside from Police websites and some news sites I do not read anything else. This is the only non-Police forum I read."

You really need to broaden your horizons. Peak Oil has been discussed in several other places closer to the mainstream than this.

Ever heard of Rolling Stone magazine?

[SouthernDem2004]

42. Don't read it. I admit I am uneducated on the subject.

[brokensymmetry]

177. With all due respect...

I understand that the demands on a law enforcement officer are many - just keeping up with the law must surely take a lot of time. That being said, you really might wish to take a look at the subject. It's true that some people make extraordinary claims...but the implications for crime and instability are, in my opinion, significant.

That being said, thank you for offering your insights.

[yebrent]

10. I'll start with a few hopefully easy ones.

In your opinion:

Do good looking woman get more lenience from police officers for minor offenses like traffic violations? Does crying help them?

Does it help to know a police officer in the precinct of the officer who is arresting you? (I've heard of more than one person getting out of a DUI because their (brother, mother, father, etc.) was an officer or clerk at said precinct.)

How easy is it to frame an individual? Is is more common than the public thinks? I ask this because I live in Oakland, and there was a huge scandal here about the "Oakland Riders" who regularly framed suspects by planting evidence. This also was an issue in Los Angeles and is generally a hot topic in California.

How much trouble are shows like CSI causing in the attempts to convict people? I have heard that jurors are starting to hold up evidence collecting and DNA testing time frames to that they see in TV shows.

Do we have any effective rights for our cars not to be searched if pulled over for a traffic violation? I've heard that if you have the wrong sticker on your car (Grateful Dead, Phish, etc.) you can be searched for probably cause based on the sticker. If you refuse, then they just bring in the dogs.

How seriously do most officers take marijuana offenses?

Thanks for this wonderful service. I will be awaiting your reply.

[SouthernDem2004]

30. Lets see:

1) All Police are different. For me a women flirting or crying is greatly increases the chance they will get a ticket. I know to many women that laugh about conning male Police out of writing tickets. Not me....

2) Can knowing someone get you out of a DUI? I am sure it can at certain departments. Up until the last 10 years or so it would have worked at my Department. I personally keep copies of my arrests of people that name drop and check the computers routinely to make sure they still are in system. Call me paranoid but I hate the good old boy system.

3) Easy to frame someone? Sure it would be. It would be extremely easy.

4) CSI? The show is horrible, my opinion. Know idea if it has any effect on courts. You would have to ask an attorney that one.

5) Vehicle searches: You always have the right to refuse. A sticker is not PC. The odor of marijuana is PC. So is contraband in plain sight. They can also do a "wing span search." They have the right to search the area you were sitting and any area within arms reach from that point. This is to look for secreted weapons on contraband.

The Police can and most likely and will call for a K-9 if you refuse and if one is available. Nothing you can do about that.

6) Marijuana: The seriousness varies with Officers. Rookie Officers tend to arrest anyone and everyone to get that drug arrest. They eventually grow out of it. The problem with even minor marijuana arrest is that in my state it leads to a mandatory driver's license suspension. Little harsh in my opinion. I think you will find that experienced Officers really find it annoying.

[cestpaspossible]

88. yeah, the odor of marijuana is probable cause but

if the officer lies and says he smelled marijuana even if he didn't, and finds marijuana in a subsequent search, his illegal search will no doubt be upheld in court. So bottom line, if you have pot in your car, the cop can search, if he's willing to lie in court.

Basically all these 'rules' supposedly guiding cops conduct are total bullshit because when it gets to court and a cop says one thing and a citizen says something else, the cop will be believed every time.

[Name removed]

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[Up2Late]

17. I don't know if you would know this one, but I live in Cobb County, GA

And in Cobb County (I'm going to call it CC from now on), we have the CC Police, CC Sheriff (and Deputies), and CC Marshal(s), and Georgia State Police, Plus City Police, Like the Marietta Police.:crazy:

Isn't some of that redundant, don't Marshals and Sheriffs usually do the same thing? And if I was near Marietta, but not sure if I was within the Marietta City limits, who would I call to report a crime, Say my car was broken into?:shrug:

[SouthernDem2004]

31. I have no idea.

I am not even sure what a CC Marshal is.

[TX-RAT]

127. Maybe i can help.

(don't Marshals and Sheriffs usually do the same thing?)
Usually County Marshall's are responsible for the service of court ordered civil papers, such as dispossesory warrants ( evictions ). In TX, thats usually handled by Constables.

(And if I was near Marietta, but not sure if I was within the Marietta City limits, who would I call to report a crime, Say my car was broken into?:shrug: ) If unsure call 911 and they will route you to the proper service, I hesitate to recommend that for a non emergency call, but if your not sure call them.
In the city call the PD
In the county call the SO.

[Up2Late]

130. See how confusing this is, we have Cobb County Police too.

I think they handle County Crimes.:crazy:

[MazeRat7]

20. Has a persons "circumstances" ever made you wish for a different option ?

By that I am asking an option other than arrest. Has there ever been a case where you wished you didnt have to enforce the letter of the law (arrest) and wished for some other resolution ?

MZr7

[SouthernDem2004]

33. Definitely...

For example, my state has mandatory arrest for suspended driver's license. Problem is what if it is a mother and her small children? We should have options.

The truth is we usually can find another resolution. If people work with us we try and work with them.

[MazeRat7]

77. If you "took it upon yourself" to find a "different" resolution....

Would it seriously jeopardize your job/career ? I guess I am trying to understand how much latitude a patrol officer has when deciding to make an arrest.

Do you have any discretion or is it strictly by county/city policy ? You have to do X in response to Y, no expections of any kind ?

MZr7

[SouthernDem2004]

96. We have discreation on misdemeanors except for Domestic Violence.

Most states Domestic laws have guidelines that often require us to make arrest. Suspended licenses is another mandatory arrest in my state. Domestics and DUS are really the only mandatory misdemeanor arrest. Felonies are a whole other ball game.

We have alot of latitude on misdemeanors but then again our job is to enforce laws. I average probably about 6-10 arrests per week. Most people arrested need to be arrested. Sometimes we really have no choice.

[MazeRat7]

104. Thanks.. and BTW.. I'm the one with the DU sticker on his truck...

Just in case we ever meet "on the road".. *grin.

MZr7

[Floogeldy]

27. Would you please not arrest anybody for possessing 1 oz. or less of pot?

B-)

[SouthernDem2004]

34. It depends, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Depends on the case.

[Name removed]

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[VOX]

36. Have you ever been in a circumstance where you've had to use deadly force?

If so, can you describe it insofar as is possible?

Thanks.

[SouthernDem2004]

38. Sorry but I will not talk about that. I have done what is necessary to

save my life. That is one area I do not talk about.

Peace

[annabanana]

37. Hi SouthernDem..

Your other 2 threads were interesting and informative. If I remember correctly, you have a pretty thick skin.. It looks like you're gonna need it!:hi:

[SouthernDem2004]

46. Greetings and thank you. /nt

[KansDem]

43. I have a question about tasers and dogs...

Today, I saw a video of a woman being tasered because she refused to comply to an order. I heard her scream repeatedly as if in a great amount of pain. While she was screaming, the police officer was ordering her to assume a particular position so she could be handcuffed. If I remember correctly, she was on the ground (although out of view of the video camera in the patrol car), and the officer was commanding her to lay on her stomach and with her hands behind her back. If someone is in pain, as it sounded this woman was, how can she be expected to assume a particular position which may be even more painful?

The same thing with dogs. Several years ago I saw a video of a police officer and dog chasing a suspect. The two caught up with the suspect in dead-end alley, and to dog cornered the suspect and began growing, snarling, and snapping at the man. I believe the dog even bit at the man's clothing. If I remember correctly, there was some controversy about police officers allowing their dogs to bite a suspect, as a kind of reward. Anyway, the suspect was being told to lie down and assume the required position for arrest while the dog was snarling and biting at him.

So what's with these requests? In the first example, I know that if I'm injured or in pain (that I assume a taser brings), I'm going to lie in the most natural position to alleviate that pain: the fetal position, contrary to the officer's request to assume an unnatural position as lying face down with my hands behind my back. How do I reconcile the need to relieve that pain through some intuitive position with lying still in an unnatural position at the request of a police officer. If I opt to reduce my pain in the fetal position, I risked being tasered again...

And in the second example, I am expected to lie down on the ground with a snarling, biting dog just a few inches from me? When confronted by a vicious dog, my instinct is to stand and position myself in a way that I might best defend and fight back, not "lie down." Yet, if I don't lie down, the dog is allowed to terrorize me further as a punishment for not complying...

So it seems to me suspects are put into situations involving great amounts of terror and pain and, when reacting with the natural responses to those situations, ordered to assume unnatural positions by police officers that only increase that terror and pain. When the suspects, in their own biological self interest for survival fail to comply, the terror and pain is increased.

Do police officers ever discuss this in classes or workshops?

[SouthernDem2004]

45. Reply:

I have be Tasered myself. Hurts, hurts alot but only during the actual shock itself. I saw the video. The first shock was fine. I personally think the second shock came to quickly. The hurry to apply a second shock is often related to the concern that the suspect may pull out the contacts.

I have personally witnessed numerous K-9 apprehensions. Once the dog takes hold he is trained not to let go. He is also trained to continue biting and pulling if the suspect continues to move.

I do not think it is discussed they way you are asking. We are all aware that it takes people a few seconds to understand commands when they are in pain. The fact that they do including the stunned women show that the methods work. LE is not pretty sometimes.

[KansDem]

47. Thanks!...

I always like getting straight answers from those who know, and not the "media discussions and reporting" that tend to blur the essence of an argument/observation.

[Name removed]

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[SouthernDem2004]

49. Best you can do? An old photo from the 60s? That dog is long dead. lol

[Name removed]

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[SouthernDem2004]

58. How is that? Anyone mention race yet other then you? I explained how

K-9s are used. Sorry if you do not like facts. Do you actually have a question or point?

[AX10]

61. Would you consider that the woman may have been in shock...

or pain from the first taser hit so she was too nervous to react in such a short amount of time?

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Yes, that is most likely the case. I disagree with the second shock.

They should have waited but it is hard to judge when I was not on scene. It is easy to sit back and watch a video and make judgements.

[AX10]

70. Ms. Goodwin was charged with non violent resisting of arrest.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3799613&mesg_id=3800267&page=

"Goodwin was charged with driving on a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence. She was treated at Bethesda Memorial Hospital after complaining that her arm was numb, according to the report, and then transferred to jail"

[hfojvt]

160. your instinct is wrong

If you stand and fight back, you are challenging the dog. Since the dog is a trained fighter, it is likely he will attack. If you lie down, you are surrendering. Once you have surrendered, an animal will usually let you be (although, because of its training, a police dog is not a normal animal). That is why "playing dead" often works in an animal attack. As Larry Niven writes, people seem to have lost their instinct for surrender and for accepting surrender. So our conflicts result in far too many homicides.

[MojoXN]

51. How long does it take before...

the US verusus THEM attitide starts to set in? I'd imagine that it's from day one. Also, do most police officers believe the government propaganda regarding illegal drugs? Do you feel that incarceration is ever in a drug offender's "best interest"? In general, do you feel that present-day punishments fit their respective crimes? Do you support the death penalty? If so, in your opinion, should it apply to child molesters? OK, that's all. I'll leave some for everyone else. :)

MojoXN

[SouthernDem2004]

56. Lets see...

1) Us v. Them: The us includes citizens. The them are the anti-police types. There are not really that many "thems" compared to "us." Heck, I have never liked the "thems" even before I was sworn in.

2) What propaganda are you refering to? Drugs are harmful. I am not referring to marijuana though. I mean coke, meth, heroin and the like.

3) Sometimes incarcerating drug offenders is in the publics best interest. Sometimes it is in the suspects interest, sometimes it is not. Not trying to dodge the question.... It just varies from case to case. The problem is the lack of substance abuse treatment in and out of prisons.

4) Some punishments fit the crimes and some do not. I am against mandatory sentencing and three strike laws. Judges should be able to consider all of the facts and circumstances before sentencing.

5) Yes, I support the death penalty.

6) No, I do not support it for child molesters. However, I support them getting life without parole.

[MojoXN]

65. Excellent answers all...

To answer your question, the propaganda that I was referring to are the deliberately misleading stories about drugs that are funded and disseminated by the ONDCP. E.G. The "ecstacy brain images" hoax or the "smoke crack once and you're automatically addicted" or the ever-popular marijuana is bad for this reason:

1930's-makes you kill and rape, and go insane

1950's-use marijuana, and you'll go straight to heroin

1960's-pot makes you grow breasts, and decreases your sperm count

you get the idea. To rephrase my original inquiry, "Do you think that most police officers accept the government's word at face value regarding drugs, tht is to say, they uncritically examine the situation?"

MojoXN

[SouthernDem2004]

67. Well...

Ecstacy does damage the brain and can kill. It does happen.

Crack addiction is not like others from what I have seen. No you are not addicted the first time.

Marijuana is fairly harmless. Its as much of a gateway drug as alcohol.

Police are around drugs and addicts almost constantly. We are aware of what is propaganda from both sides.

[maveric]

52. What are your feelings on marijuanna? Do you take people in for it?

What are the laws like in your state?

[SouthernDem2004]

60. I am for legalizing but do arrest and charge.

It really depends on the circumstances. Small amounts I usually just destroy in the suspects prescence. It really depends on alot of factors including the suspects attitude.

Sorry, but I will not say where I work. Not even what state.

[Walt Starr]

53. No real question,

just a thank you for your service.

[killbotfactory]

54. What would motivate a policeman to give a ticket for going...

Four miles over the speed limit?

[SouthernDem2004]

62. Citizen's complaints about speeding in the area, wanting to stop

the vehicle to see who is inside, the Traffic Officer is worthless and they keep getting on him for not working so he goes out and just starts stroking tickets for every little thing. Could be any number of reasons.

Go to court on that ticket! The margin of error for a vehicles speedometer is +/- 3 mph. A judge will probably toss the ticket. If your state allows jury trials even better.

[killbotfactory]

71. Thanks

Too late, though. I got fined 80 bucks... :(

I only learned about the trial by jury option when one of my friends used it to make them drop a fine for not using their blinkers.

[The Magistrate]

55. This Is Much Appreciated, Sir

My own interactions with police have been mixed, but it is definitely necessary work....

[Robb]

57. I echo these sentiments

...and find myself delighted to see a badge of sorts on The Magistrate's collar!

Kudos, sir. Clearly I need to be paying better attention. :thumbsup:

[newportdadde]

59. Have you ever seen another officer take cash monies

found during a drug bust or other arrest? If so were they caught?

[SouthernDem2004]

66. No, I would have narced them out myself. In my opinion an Officer

that breaks the law is a traitor. I think sentences for former Officers charged with crimes should be doubled.

I am talking about serious crimes. Not minor traffic offenses.

[iconoclastic cat]

64. Does being an MP prepare you to be a police officer in a large urban area?

I was also wondering if former MPs you might know have made that move after their tour is finished.

[SouthernDem2004]

69. We have several former MPs and SPs at my department...

Hmmm, They do well. They tend to be a little harder to train in the beginning because we do not have near the powers they had on Federal property. They seem to make the transition well though. Police Departments have a large number of ex-military so they fit in easily.

Policing in a large urban area is different from military policing. I would not worry about being prepared for it. The Department that hires the MP will train him so he should not have any problems. If you are interested in becoming a Police Officer why not give it a try. Its not like the military, if you do not like it you can always quit.

[iconoclastic cat]

72. Thanks! Someone else actually asked my to ask this.

I'm already in civil service: I'm an inner-city public school teacher.

[UdoKier]

68. You believe in civil discourse...

with the condition that you are the lecturer and all the little DUers are supposed to bow to your wisdom.

Do you know how condescending these threads you post come across? It really fits nicely with the image a lot of people have of cops as control freaks.

I don't always agree with those who accuse every cop of brutality, but I also think there are a significant number of cops on the streets who are control freaks and megalomaniacs.

Maybe if you titled your threads "Hi, I'm a cop, let's talk" and actually listened a bit more to what people are saying it would be more constructive. You've set up the thread like you're the only one who's doing the schooling.

I'd wager you still have a few things to learn, (as do the rest of us).

[SouthernDem2004]

73. I will actually respond:

First, I know I have things to learn. Never said I did not.

It should be obvious why I state conditions on my responding. The reason I mention it in the post is so that people will know why I ignore some posts.

Sorry if you feel it is condescending, that was not my intent. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.


Peace

[UdoKier]

74. LOL

"I will actually respond:"

How magnanimous! I wasn't talking about ignoring posts. You're certainly entitled to ignore profane or rude posts.

But the haughty attitude you form the thread with is pretty off-putting (and probably that much more likely to attract the very type of posters you DON'T want)

But it's your thread. It's you're prerogative to keep it a humility-free zone on your part.

[SouthernDem2004]

75. Yep, I said I would not respond to personal attacks but decided to in

your case. I am sorry you are so sensative. Good luck with that.


Peace

[UdoKier]

76. You regard being called on your own self-importance as a "personal attack"

And *I'm* the sensitive one?

:eyes:

[cestpaspossible]

118. Actually, personal attacks are not allowed on DU

if you see what you believe is a personal attack, you should hit the 'Alert' link.

Keep in mind however, that if someone has criticized the content of your posts, rather than attacking you personally, the mods won't do anything about it.

[SouthernDem2004]

121. I do not alert on ppl.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

149. That made no sense.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

152. Yawn, I grow weary of your baiting. Your post make your intentions

obvious. I will no longer respond. Good luck.


Peace

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Protagoras]

78. Thank you Southerndem

you're posts here are calm, reasoned, and professional. Many of us greatly appreciate it.

[Ms. Clio]

79. Rather strange and revealing that you consistently capitalize "Police"

but you don't capitalize "court" or "law."

Very odd.

[SouthernDem2004]

82. Yep, one of my quirks. I also capitalize Democrat, Officer and a few

other non-proper nouns. The words "court" and "law" are to generic.

[Ms. Clio]

109. It is proper to capitalize "Democrat"

when referring to a member of the Democratic Party. That is not a "quirk."

Perhaps you should also try using and capitalizing the word "Citizen" instead of just the generic "people."

[SouthernDem2004]

122. Actually the word Democrat is just a normal noun but I see what you

are saying which is why I capitalize it. The thing is alot of Democrats do not consider themselves members of the Party. See the political discussion area. :)

[Zorbuddha]

154. There is a distinction between Democrat and democrat.

Just as there is a distinction between Nazi and nazi, Conservative and conservative.

Peacekeepers and peacemakers are synonymous, I reckon. Feel free to capitalize those, too.

[spacelady]

80. Have you always worked as a police officer or did you have other jobs

previously? If other, what were they & what drew you to this profession?

[SouthernDem2004]

83. Had a desk job and did the Army thing for a while. Still in the Guard..

Become the Police with the Protecting and Serving intent. Saw it as a way to help my community.

[spacelady]

86. thanks for reply, that should be the attitude, it's appreciated. n/t

[anarchy1999]

141. So, I can't find where anyone has asked you the QUESTION? How do

you feel about this administration lying this nation into war?

How do you feel about depleted uranium?

How do you feel about all our vets being killed and maimed for lies?

I really look forward to your response.

[SouthernDem2004]

165. Well...

1) Against going in the first place.

2) I support DU... Heck, the stuff was inches away from my head for years...

3) What a loaded question, lol. Like I said I did not support the war in the first place.

[alittlelark]

81. Why do you think the police in GB get by with bobby sticks

and here in the USA we need guns?

[SouthernDem2004]

85. Some Police in GB are armed, some are not.

Why? Well there are more guns here. We also have more violent crime.

[Gusto md]

89. But....

Do Americans have more violent crime because you have more guns....?

[SouthernDem2004]

94. No, we have alot of other issues. Guns do not cause crime. Our

culture is just violent.

[alittlelark]

113. 'More violent crime'.... due to more guns or more violent people? n/t

[cestpaspossible]

84. Do you believe 'he followed procedure' to be an adequate defense

to any charges of use of excessive force, or should the officer divert from procedure if following procedure would result in an immoral act?

[SouthernDem2004]

87. You would have to be more specific about what an immoral act is...

SOP does not exempt Police from obeying laws. Morals tend to be subjective so you would have to be a little more specific on what you mean.

[cestpaspossible]

90. If you don't know what an immoral act is without me telling you,

perhaps you are in the wrong job.

[SouthernDem2004]

92. Um, some people consider homosexuality to be immoral. How do I know

what you consider immoral? How am I supposed to know what your morals are?????????????? A pedophile does not think molesting children is immoral. Your morals are based on your beliefs. I do not know you. I do not know your beliefs. You can not throw out such a broad word without explaination.

[cestpaspossible]

95. If you are not willing to make moral decisions for yourself, I can't force

you. I'm certainly not asking you to adopt my morals, I assumed you had your own ideas of what constitutes morality and immorality. I guess I was wrong.

I suppose if a person makes no moral judgements, it makes it a lot easier to give and obey orders without thinking.

[SouthernDem2004]

97. It would be wrong for me to force my morals on others as a Police Officer.

I have my own morals, certainly. However, it would be wrong of me to force my morals onto someone else just because I am in a position of authority. Isn't that what our President and his people are trying to do???

[cestpaspossible]

100. Seems you were so busy trying to avoid the question you forgot what it was

Here's the question again, you can duck it again if you want:

Do you believe 'he followed procedure' to be an adequate defense to any charges of use of excessive force, or should the officer divert from procedure if following procedure would result in an immoral act?

[SouthernDem2004]

103. No, I attempted to answer the question but requested clarification

on what you consider immoral. Thats when you started getting insulting.

Taking your question on face value of course he should "divert." Your question is phrased poorly. SOP does not allow for excessive force. Show me a policy that requires an Officer to use excessive force. Your question is not valid. No SOP allows for the use of excessive force. You are just baiting.

[cestpaspossible]

105. The question of whether following orders or procedure justifies evil

is an uncomfortable one, perhaps, but that does not mean it's not a valid question.


No SOP allows for the use of excessive force.

I see, it is a matter of definition. If you define acceptable force as that which is allowed by procedure, then your original answer is right - the officer doesn't have to make any moral judgements, and can just follow procedure.

However, procedure is defined by humans, and humans actually can make mistakes. Abdicating one's responsibility to decide for oneself whether one's actions are moral and using 'following orders' or procedure as a defense.... what does that remind me of?

[AlienGirl]

91. We need more intelligent, liberal cops!

How hard is it to pass the physical requirements to become a police officer?

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

93. Depends on the agency but it is about the same as military requirements.

Your local agency probably has the requirements on its website. If not just call their human resources department.

I think it was pretty easy. The run took out alot of people.

[AlienGirl]

107. Argh...

I know someone who should be a cop. The military rejected him for being overweight (though he is *strong* and fast and tall, he is about a hundred pounds over the military's max).

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

108. Hmmm, my agency does not have a weight limit. Some do and some don't.

As long as he could pass the physical test such as running and pushups he would be fine. He should call and check into it.

[AlienGirl]

110. I keep telling him to

He also has issues about taking an oath of office though.

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

111. Why is that if you dont mind me asking?

The oath generally is to uphold the laws of the city and state.

[AlienGirl]

114. I think he's afraid sometimes upholding the law might be unethical

For instance, arresting a sick person for smoking marijuana.

Tucker

[jayfish]

138. I Would Like To Chime In On This One.

The physical fitness exam is a strange bird. I have taken the MLEOTC test twice and passed both times. Once at the end of my academy training, when I was in superb shape, and once about five years later when I wasn't in such great shape. The second time I took the test I scored high enough to totally skip the run. Thing is, there were always people testing who had failed the test before and were on their second and third tries and they were always in better shape than me. :shrug: The test is weighted and seemed to favor strength (push-ups, grip strength, ability to drag a 160lb a certain distance) over agility and conditioning (obstacle course, 1/2 mile run).

Jay

[SouthernDem2004]

159. Only 1/2 mile? Thats a little weak. We can not skip anything either.

They really should rething their testing.

[jayfish]

164. Let Me Clarify

I actually ran the 1/2, but at a leisurely pace. Like I said too, lots of people, who appeared to able to pass the test failed several times.

Jay

[SouthernDem2004]

166. Pushups and the run seem to take out the most people on our tests. /nt

[jayfish]

176. Yeah...

push-ups seemed to kill just about 90% of everyone. I've always been able to do lots of push-up though. ...One of the reasons I could mail the run in.

Jay

[seabeyond]

101. i say this respectfully southerndem

i do. up until the last decade i trusted policeman. i respected policeman and i was so empathetic and supportive of the job that you all did. now this 43 yr old mother of two boys, upper middle class doesnt trust your profession and i tell my boys to be wary. in the last decade my views have changed, and it is really unfortunate. not just for me. you need my support, you should desire and want my respect. it will make your job easier.

i dont respect policeman as a whole. i have watched the shift of more and more policeman treating citizens of all shapes and colors and social levels with so much disrespect. animals, i tell you. i really feel the police see us as animals. treat the people like animals long enough and that is what they will become.

when my son was two and i was teaching him about community, and looking in peoples eyes to say hello, i went to the police officers. four separate occasion, when i pulled into a convenience store i would tell son ahead of time. be brave, look policeman in the eyes and say hello mr policeman, with the hugest of smiles. all four times, the policeman ignored or dismissed, didnt crack a smile or a welcome. i then went to the firemen we ran into at the grocery stores, and they so took care of my boys and taught them to love them

cops in our community lost out on a wonderful opportunity

i watched a cops show on tv and i see such poor behavior, and the police are so obtuse in their behavior they put it forth as entertainment. there is one particular show of a 17 slim small girl trying to commit suicide. i will never forget that show. i was just disgusted

97 year old woman handcuffed

a 70 something year old blind woman sprayed and tackled in oregon. an eyeball pops out. (fake)

it is a world gone mad.

do you take any responsibility for the lack of respect that your profession is now receiving. because, and this is the only reason i put in the time, and bother you with this. because, if the police cannot see how much damage they do to themselves in seeing all people as criminal, things are going to continually get worse for all of us, but especially for you doing an already nasty job.

[SouthernDem2004]

106. Reply:

I am sorry you have had such a bad experience. I have no idea why the Officers you have encountered are unfriendly. Afraid I just have no answer to that. Police are people like everyone else. We have pleasant Officers and we have jerks. Maybe the Officers thoughts were elsewhere. Its possible he/she just came off a call involving a death or other tragedy and his mind was elsewhere. I have no idea...

Police shows on TV are horrible. The dramas are nothing like reality and the Police in shows like COPS seem to be acting for the cameras.

I treat the public the way I would want to be treated. Thats about the best I can do. All I can ask is that you try not to lump us all into one category.

[seabeyond]

112. when my son was about 6 with his 6 cousin

we had our first policeman stop and chat with the boys. i was particularly thrilled, because the cousin had experience with police in his home because of his parents fighting and drinking. so he had a fear of police. that man was so nice, chatted with them, gave the a postcard of something. i took the policeman aside and thanked him profusely, told him how important it was for this boy to experience a police in the light of day.......in a positive way. that this will do more for this boy than any lecture or punishment when he is in trouble.

that was a bicycle policeman that is statined in a poor neighborhood, and that is their job, along with other stuff. to get to know the kids in the neighborhoods

dont you think that would be a more productive type solution than a shrug of shoulders and i dont know. i am saying

there is a problem. and there is a solution to every problem. but first we have to recognize there is a problem. i am on your side. i am wanting to support you

you cannot dismiss what is put on tv. you have to stand up and speak out against it. that is what the people see, and now they see us as that.

i read on the taser post you say, yes they abuse it, will only stop with enough law suits. well in hte mean time, this 43 year old woman, will continue to get more mad at yawl, and respect you all less. this is your bosses job. it is not our place to get tasered by out of control cops, so we can sue to fix you departments. you have to help. surely, this is not new stuff for you. surely you see this on a regular basis.

i had a cop stop me for, well i dont know why and mouth off to me why my niece was in the car on a school day. was a snot. i didnt do anything. told him, father in hospital for an emergency and i was taking her home with me until he got out. then he realized what an ass he was to an afraid 12 year old girl.

it premeates your profession.


now i am an average looking person. older. for the most part, it shouldnt be tough for a cop to be respectful to me. but they arent. and if they arent to me, i damn well know they arent to some 20 year old black man.

[seabeyond]

116. i am off to bed, and you

have got to be tired. let me just share this. how i see life. pretty simple for me

we need males to stop the abuse of females. i tell husband, no you dont rape. you are respectful and kind and good to women but......it is your gender and only your gender can fix you. when sittin at a bar and some friend mouths off, man i got that girl so drunk and then i fucked her good even though she was passed out. you dont keep mouth shut you say something. the good men have got to stand up. your job

i tell the catholic, i know you love your religion, mean so much to you, i value it, in your sharing with me. but you cannot ignore the damaging and hateful part of your religion. it is your job to stand up to it, not mine. i cannot do it. only a person that is a part of your religion can

and here i sit, with women. it is not a mans place to do it. i will be the first to be on a females ass if she is playing the female game, or the female that uses rape to get back at someone or the courts that so often go to the female because of course she is a mama....well not all women are nurturing and should be the mama. that is my job

the police dept is your job.

good night to you. appreciate the time

[drdtroit]

115. "I treat the public the way I would want to be treated."

Well, I guess that would make you exempt from protester duty here in NYC.
Unless you're a masochist. :-)

[seabeyond]

117. i dont buy the golden rule and this is why

i like straight talk tell it the way it is, dont worry about me taking it personally i want to hear it from the heart.

not how other people want to be treated. if i treated people the way i like to be treated, then i would have a lot of sad or hurt or mad people around me.

[drdtroit]

119. It's not my quote: read post #106. n/t

[seabeyond]

120. do onto others as you would have done onto yourself

it is a quote, from jesus i believe. as i say, i cant do onto others, as i would have done onto myself, i have to do onto others as they want done onto them, wink

i am off to bed

[SouthernDem2004]

123. As long as they obey the law the Police just stand there and watch.

I can do that. :)

[cestpaspossible]

131. That statement is simply untrue. You should educate yourself

They were captured in nets, handcuffed and thrown into crowded jail cells.

For more than 1,800 protesters arrested at last year's Republican convention, free speech came at a price. Some are still fighting charges such as disorderly conduct and failure to disperse. Of those who have made their way through the judicial system, nine in 10 were not found guilty of anything.
more: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/051705dnnatprotester.b5419a84.html

[drdtroit]

174. Sorry ...

Over 1800 arrests during the protests, however only 174 either charged/convicted.
That sounds a lot like harassment to me. Or is that just SOP in a police state?
I mean, I grew up in Detroit and never saw the police as anything but doing their gig and usually very helpful. Of course that was a few decades before we had a psychopath in the white house and I think a lot of the edicts regarding protests come down from the very top. It's a whole new ballgame now.
Have you been directly affected by this in your state yet?

[drdtroit]

175. and don't get me wrong, I'm not targeting all the NYPD

because most of them are good people (I work with a few of them in their other "lives"). But there is a certain "macho idiot" mentality that seems to be more acceptable these days.

[SouthernDem2004]

178. The Police are charged with maintaining order.

Ever wonder why the Police drop most of the charges involved in protest? The anti-Police types will instantly chime up and say it was because the charges were false. The reality of it is that these people were arrested to maintain the peace. The Police decided to strictly enforce the law to control a certain situation. They drop the charges later because they have nothing against the protesters once the event is over. The charges they do not drop are usually against the people that caused problems. Some people seem to project their anger on Police at protest. Like we have any control over the WTO or the WH. Do you actually think all of the Police at the protest are pro-Bush? No, there are just doing a job.

Actually the Police handle protest better then they did say 10 years ago. It used to look like the Civil Rights protests of the 60s with dogs, sticks and water hoses. I know people think it is worse now but there have always been protest in this country and people have always been arrested. Ask some of our older hippies on DU. I am sure they can tell you about some truely violent clashes with Police.

[cestpaspossible]

200. Is that why they doctored this video evidence?

During last year's Republican National Convention, the city of New York witnessed some of the largest mass arrests in the city's history. 1800 people were arrested.

But now the cases against the vast majority of the arrested have fallen apart. Of the nearly 1700 cases that have run their full course, 91 percent ended with charges dismissed or with a verdict of not guilty.

The New York Times reported earlier this week that in some 400 cases charges were dropped because video recordings emerged showing that the arrested had not committed a crime or that the charges against them could not be proved.

In at least one case video evidence was doctored. During court proceedings, the police presented a video of the arrest of a man named Alexander Dunlop. It turned out that the video presented by the police was edited in two spots - images that showed Dunlop acting peacefully were removed.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/14/1349256

[Seeker30]

124. A few questions

One thing that has always bothered me is the police never take some types of crime seriously, and it seems to me they pursue mainly crime that is profitable to the city (such as drug arrests). For example, I don't know how many times my car has been broken into and hundreds if not thousands of dollars in stuff was stolen. The police will not even come to our house to take a report, we have to go to the police station and even then they don't even look at the car. If they really wanted to they could take fingerprints, but they say they don't have the manpower, yet they have the manpower to setup speedtraps daily, whats up with that?

Another thing, you mentioned that if you refused a vehicle search they will call the dogs, wouldnt that be a violation of the constitution? I always thought refusing a search was not to be used as probable cause.

How about this scenerio: you are stopped and the officer asks if he can search your vehicle. You say 'are you asking or demanding?'. The officer will reply that he is asking. You reply 'get a warrant, I'm in a hurry'. What do you think would be a typical officers response?

One other thing, does having a felony allow an officer to conduct a search without any other cause?

[SouthernDem2004]

129. Reply:

1) Well, drug arrest are no more profitable then a burglary arrest. We generally lose money on arrests if they do not bond out. We have to pay for their room and board at the jail.

Vehicle burglaries: There are manpower issues at some agencies. Mine still responds to vehicle burglaries but the first agency I worked for did not. (The thing with finger prints is that the only surface on a vehicle where you can get a good print is the outside body or windows. Can not get a print off the dash or any other rough surface.)
There is a difference between a Patrol and Traffic Officer. Traffic Officers are solely tasked with traffic enforcement and accidents. I hope we can all agree that traffic laws need to be enforced. Patrol often lacks the time.
The only solution is to increase the size of your agency but that takes money.
We have solved very few vehicle burglaries with prints. The most helpful thing you can do is record all of your serial numbers. Pawn shops are required to turn in a list of their purchases. We catch alot of morons that way. Not to mention come across stolen items in vehicles and homes.

2) K-9s: The Supreme Court recently ruled that we can run a dog around any vehicle any time we wish on a stop.
Illinois v. Caballes
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/24jan20051130/www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/04pdf/03-923.pdf

3)Respone to the "get a warrant.": You are going to meet a Police K-9.

4) Felony allow a search: A felony does not change search rules. I still need a warant for a residence. I can do a wing span search on the vehicle OR I can tow it and do an "inventory" for the tow log.

Let me know if I forgot anything.

[yewberry]

125. Hi SouthernDem!

I appreciate the opportunity to ask questions and have them answered in a considered way.

I have one that might be a hard one. Maybe not. You tell me.

I do appreciate police and the work that you do. I don't think that I could do it.

For a number of reasons, though, both my husband and I have very deep fear of police, bordering on phobia. Confronted with an officer (even at a gas station or just walking by) I become so afraid that I can barely speak. It's not debilitating, as I rarely come into contact with police. Heck, I haven't even been to a protest since the WTO. I know others with the same kind of fear.

I am aware that it is the symbolism and not the individual officer that is the problem. I had a friend who was a cop; I sat for her kids. We were fine, but when she wore a uniform, there it was. Fear.

Do police understand that, for some people, a fear of police is not the same as a fear of being caught doing something illegal?

Thanks for your time!

[SouthernDem2004]

135. Yes, Police used to make me nervous when I got caught speeding

when I was younger. Can not tell you why they made me nervous but they did. Of course I am used to Police now. :)

[yewberry]

147. I think you misunderstand me.

I guess it's hard to explain if you haven't felt it.

It's not nervous--it's fear. And it's not in a "caught speeding" context. I can just be walking down the street or at the bank or just living my life, if I see a police officer, I'm afraid.

What you describe seems to me to be more about fearing consequences, while I'm talking about fearing police.

Well, that should be clear as mud.

And of course you're used to police now, goofy.:D

[tom_paine]

128. First off, SouthernDem, thanks for your service

Disclaimer: I myself am not a huge fan of the Police Force in general... too many abuses comitted, but I recognize it is a necessary evil and a job in which the job-holder basically agrees to deal with the some of the worst, ruthless, criminal people on a daily basis.

Having said that, and with all due respect (also considering that there is a wide a variety of police officer personalitites as their is in every other human grouping), what is the general belief held by cops on lying to make a bust?

I myself am a straight arrow who's experience with cops & courts is limited to a couple of traffic court trips. However, I was stunned in each case, especially given I am a veteran, white, homeowner, etc., the officer severely embellished or outright lied about the encounter.

Now, it is a given among much of the non-cop world that, when you get to court, is is almost a certainty that the cop will lie or embellish on the stand.

As Mr. Bill-Paying, Drive-the-Speed Limit (OK, 7 MPH over) Guy, I used to think that was a bullshit cop-out by the Guilty.

Until I looked across the dock into the eyes of the State Trooper who told a 100% demonstrable LIE under oath. Just ONE experience like that can change your mind abbout things.

I have had two. Of two trips to traffic court. Admittedly a small sampling, but police scandals regarding evidence fabrication are frequent and pervasive.

So I am left to ask myself, "If that's S.O.P. for little stuff like traffic stops how bad is it when it's for big-time offenses?"

Does that mean I think that every criminal is innocent? Hell, no! But my question then is, "How cavalier in general are the cops in your area about fabrications when they get to court? How often do cops embellish severely or lie on the stand? Is it easy to rationalize, after you do so to put some very bad people who perhaps are technically getting away with what you KNOW they did? Is embellishing or lying on the stand such a mundane given that is is as pervasive as some of the harshest critics think?"

For my own personal experience I am 2 for 2. 2 trips to court and 2 cops severly embellishing or outright lying on the stand.

What's your take on that? Just how bad is it out there?

[SouthernDem2004]

139. The problem with most traffic violations is that they are unintentional.

Sometimes the person does not notice the light turned red. Sometimes they are not paying attention to their speed. In those cases people often swear up and down that they are innocent and truely believe it.

I really could not tell you how bad it is because I do not lie nor to my knowledge know anyone that does. I am sure it happens but I doubt as often as you may think. You have to remember that TV dramas and movies are not even close to reality. Also, the Police of 20 years ago are not the Police of today. I think Police lying on stand is infrequent. Getting a conviction is not worth compromising ones integrity or losing your job.

[tom_paine]

156. Hmmmm. I don't know...

First off, I am not basing my comments on TV cop dramas, which I do not watch, but on real life scandals as mentioned in this very thread. I grew up in Philly, and trust me, there are PLENTY of evidence-fabrication, lying, and graft trials.

Yet when one asks, naturally NO ONE would EVER do such a thing. And yet...the thing gets done.

Second, I was not speaking strictly on traffic violations, but that is my experience so I brought it up. I was referring mostly to larger issues anyway.

I don't wish to go into a detailed rehash of my own traffic court experience, but suffice to say it was an unquestionable outright lie told by the trooper.

It seems as if a lot of cops are doing a lot of lying in court, but all the cops swear they are blameless and nobody they know does it and so forth.

Please don't take this personally. I am not singling you out, but it is frustrating. No one is doing a whole lot of nothing and yet, scandals keep brewing and popping and cops keep going to jail or innocents put away are being released.

So, I take it all with a grain of salt. It is ironic, in some respects, how cops and criminals are alike in some ways, such as the "rule of omerta" when protecting one's own.

Thank you for your reply, though.

[SouthernDem2004]

158. Well, Police are people. They have the same fralities and flaws as others

[cestpaspossible]

201. Are they subject to the corrupting influence of power?

What counseling or other programs are in place at your department to counteract this effect?

[Zenlitened]

132. Do you think Sting will consider re-joining the band...

... now that his solo career has cooled off?

[SouthernDem2004]

140. No, his career is still doing well. He had a hit as recently as last year

and he certainly does not need the money. The man owns a castle!

[EFerrari]

136. I could use some help on internet stalking, SouthernDem

If I feel/believe/know I'm being cyber stalked, what would be the most useful way to show my great SFPD what I have?

I've filed one incident report with Gen Work, and now it looks like I should file another one.

What would you suggest?

[SouthernDem2004]

142. I have no idea. I have never dealt with such an issue. We have a

detective assigned to computer related crimes and he deals with that issue. SFPD should have the same, find out who he/she is and contact them.

Sorry, I am no help on this.

[EFerrari]

144. 'sokay. We seem to be breaking new ground here.

:)

[B Calm]

137. What is the best thing I can say after being pulled over for speeding

that will help me get off with a warning?

[jayfish]

143. Don't Say Anything And...

have your paperwork ready before the officer reaches your window. he won't have much time to chit-chat and neither will you.

Jay

[B Calm]

145. Good advice.. I might add having your dome light on and having both

hands on the steering wheel will put the officer at ease too..

[SouthernDem2004]

146. Just be honest and polite...

If you do not have an excuse for speeding just tell them that. If they ask why you were speeding just say, "No particular reason really." Excuses, complaining or name dropping greatly increase the odds of a written citation. If the Officer plans to cite you there is nothing you can do. Some Officers write alot of tickets, some do not.

I would suggest buying a good radar detector if they are legal in your state. That or do not speed. :)

[Cats Against Frist]

157. "Oops that's NOT my license, but my 'good driver's card."

Followed by a giggle and flip of the hair.

It's worked four times, including once when I was HAMMERED*.



*I would add a disclaimer that it is never cool to drink and drive, and I haven't done it in at least five years, and before that, probably only twice.

[0rganism]

148. How would you go about investigating burglary and petty theft?

Let's say someone reports a break-in to their home with the theft of a few moderately-expensive but common items, like a DVD player or a videocamera. You answer the call, and take a statement from the home owner. How would you proceed from there?

[SouthernDem2004]

151. Well...

We print any area the suspect may have touched. If a print is taken it is run through our local computer system and the FBI's. Aside from that we try to get serial numbers to check pawn shops and to try to match anything we recover in the future. Sometimes we speak to neighbors to see if they saw anything. That is about the extent of what a Patrol Officer will do.
The case then goes to an investigator who does the rest. He will try to match it up with other burglaries to see if they are similar. He will also compare the methods used by the suspect with methods used by our known burglars.
If more then one incident occurs in an area we will often increase patrols in that area. We will basicly contact anyone on the street.

[cestpaspossible]

155. Really? your dept does all that for a few hundred bucks of stolen stuff?

Color me sceptical.


I'd be willing to bet that taking the report would be the end of it in the vast majority of jurisdictions.

[dejaboutique]

162. thanks and I have some questions

thanks for your posts, you seem like a pretty cool policeman...my questions are mainly about women on the force.

1.) Is the test the same for women coming onto the force?

2.) Do you think the women on the force are treated just like the guys or tell me anything you have observed?

3.) If you had a daughter would you let her be a police woman?

4.)how long does it take to move up out of patrol? or if you have a college degree can you go straight to detective or homicide?

thanks and thanks for serving!

[SouthernDem2004]

163. Answers:

1) Test the same for women? At my Department it is but I know of some that it is not. It varies from agency to agency. You will have to check your local agency. It might even be on their website.

2) Women treated differently? No, we have female Officers that are good at the job and some that are bad, just like with male Officers. The attitude towards women has changed drasticly over the years. Now a days female Officers are heavily recruited. Not that many women are interested in LE unfortunately. Oddly enough we fight to try to get female Officers on our squads. They are extremely helpful in searching female prisoners and some citizens find them easier to talk to in stressful situations like reporting domestic violence or a rape.

3) Would I let my daughter be an Officer? We do not have one yet but I would actually encourage it. Unfortunately she could not work at my department until I retire.

4) How long does it take to move up? That really depends on the size of the agency. I have a friend that was a detective after just a year on the job. Of course his department has like 30 Officers. It really varies greatly. It really depends on the persons ability, experience and knowledge. Some move up quicker then others.
A college degree does not matter and you can not go straight into investigations. A degree only will factor in with rank promotions. Some agencies require degrees for certain ranks like captain and such.

Investigations (detectives) is not really a move up so much as just another aspect of Police Departments. Alot of Officers such as myself are not interested in the job. Actually investigations is not as glamorous as TV depicts it. There is ALOT of desk work.

[fujiyama]

167. Hi I have a few questions

What are your thoughts on racial profiling? Most studies I have read have found it ineffective, yet departments obviously still practice it.

How much racism have you seen in your department/among your colleagues? Obviously, the issue is much more sensitive in your line of work, because of the power involved, and the suspicion among many minorities of the police.

When pulling over someone for a traffic violation, how do you decide when to give a warning compared to actually giving the citation?

What are your thoughts on seat belt laws?

What do you find to be the most common felony committed?

And finally, earlier today there was a study released that the violent crimes have dropped. Do you see evidence of this yourself?

[SouthernDem2004]

179. Hmmm

1) Racial profiling is illegal now. I am not sure what you mean by departments obviously still practice it. To be honest I can not really speak to the subject. I live in a medium size city in the South and we have minorites all across the finacialand social spectrum. We do not have neighborhoods where a minority would be out of place.

2) Racisim is everywhere. It is harder to spot in departments where the Officers do not tolerate such ignorance. If the racism is not overt it is often hard to spot. I have never seen an Officer do anything racist. They are not that stupid. I have my suspicions about 2 Officers in my department but they have not done anything overt.

Quick story, Police go to training classes put on by companys that do nothing other then that. I have been around the country just attending "schools." At one of these schools we went to a nearby restaurant during a lunch break and myself and 5 other Officers were in the bathroom at the same time. All were white. The restaurant had 2 mens bathrooms for some odd reason. Two of the Officers worked for the same department from a small town in SC. One of them made the comment that, "this must have been the niggers bathroom." and the other one laughed. Now before I could say anything another Officer called them some choice words and they choose to leave. The scary things is that was probably acceptable behavior at their little redneck department.

Departments are different and Police are different. Racisim still exists and will for a long time to come.

3) Traffic stops: It is up to the individual Officer. I write few citations and yet I have friends that write several a day. Alot of it just depends on who stops you. My decision depends on what the violation was and the drivers attitude. As long as they did not pass a stopped school bus or were not driving 60 miles per hour through a neighborhood I am open to giving a warning. It really just depends...
Crying, flirting, or unnecessary cleavage or leg.. thats a ticket.
Name dropping... thats a ticket.
Attitude... thats a ticket.
Unbuckled children... thats a ticket.
Littering (my pet peeve)... thats a ticket.

4) I am pro seat belt laws. Most traffic fatalities I have worked involved the victim not wearing a seat belt. Its not just a statistic or propaganda. It is an actual fact that seatbelts save lives. I see it all of the time.

5) The most common felony is burglary be it of a residence or a vehicle.

6) Violent crimes are definitely down where I work. Murders are slightly up but most of ours have been Domestic related and we can not effect that. The fact violent crimes are down could just be a fluke. They have been going down for years but they are still at unacceptable levels.

[uncle ray]

168. yet another question re: marijuana

i see you support legalization. how do you feel about it's use in the car? are you of the opinion that a regular pot smoker can properly operate a motor vehicle?

also, when approaching a vehicle that reeks of pot smoke, and you ask the driver if he has anything you need to know about, is there any difference in the way you treat someone who comes clean and says they have a small amount, and someone who steadfastly refuses to admit it, for fear of harsh penalities?

[SouthernDem2004]

180. DUI alsoinclude being under the influence of drugs...

No marijuana smoking in cars. No, a stoned person can not operate a vehicle properly. A stoned persons relexes and perception are way to slow. Bad bad idea...

To the smoke smell... Yes, there is a difference in most cases. I often tell people in those cases, "If you treat me like I am an idiot, I am going to act like an idiot." If we smell marijuana we are going to search the vehicle and find it anyway. It is best to just come clean. I personally usually do not arrest for small amounts. HOWEVER, if you are driving a vehicle and are clearly stoned I am going to arrest you for possession and DUI. I do not care if people smoke pot but you are not going to get behind the wheel and endanger the lives of others if I can help it. Smoke at home.

[Flying Dream Blues]

169. I just wanted to say thanks...

I think you have been patient and very informative. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of these questions, and it sounds like you are the very best kind of police officer.

[SouthernDem2004]

181. Thank you :) /nt

[The Flaming Red Head]

170. When getting your ass kicked is it OK to bleed

or should you try to apply pressure to the wound (if possible) and wait and bleed later in your cell. And is crying or moaning included in the right to remain silent, if they're beating you up real bad, or is it like when your parents used to say "Now, I'll give you something to cry about." Which I have found is usually the case with the police, too and I am talking about really bad beatings.

[WLKjr]

171. I have a question

I recently aquired a part time job at a school and need to get a BCI security clearance ( that is what I was told it was) and was told I could get it at any local police department, sherrifs department and also this one place in the town that I work in.


I need to know what I need to ask for so I don't run into an asshole like I did just the other day. I asked this gentleman who was pounding away at a keyboard behind 2 inch thick bp glass and asked about getting this BCI security clearance done.

He promptly got pissed and acted like a total asshole, even was loud with me and shouted "They ONLY DO THOSE AT THE SHERIFFS DESK!" and he didn't even look at me. So I asked where else I could get it and he was like " I DO NOT KNOW, THEY ONLY DO THEM AT THE SHERRIFFS DESK!" and didn;t look at me again. he got really agitated the second time so I just turned around and left.


what should I ask about when I go to do this? and why do some of these young cops feel the need to act like complete assholes?

[SouthernDem2004]

182. What you need is a background check for civilain employment.

That is what you should ask for.

The guy behind the desk is probably not an Officer or is a problem child that got put behind the window because he is a problem child. You should have asked to speak to someone else. If you let his attitude go unchecked he is just going to continue to do it.

[WLKjr]

189. Thank you!

I will remember to ask for that instead.

[drdtroit]

172. Good segment on Nightline right now

Lots of video of the NYPD in action during the protests.

[BiggJawn]

173. Do you guys REALLY believe in that D.A.R.E. stuff?

I've been to DARE presentations with my kids in 3 diferent school systems, and frankly, the cops ALWAYS come off like that "Sgt. Stedenko" character off the Cheech and Chong "Los Cochinos" album.

The last time, they gave my daughter a hand out to bring home that warned me about the "danger" of flipping my headlights at oncoming cars running dark, because that was an "invitation" for them to turn around and machine-gun me for their Gang initiation. I remember reading about that on an Urban Legend de-bunking site. It was bogus...

I always considered that having an ex-stepbrother in prison for being involved in a drug murder was a better deterrent than any school convocation, anyway...

[SouthernDem2004]

183. Well, DARE does expose children to the Police in a more positive

atmosphere. There are Officers actually assigned to DARE programs. These Officers spend their time in schools just like School Resource Officers.

Yea, the presentations are cheesy but the day to day interaction with young children is positive.

[BiggJawn]

184. But what happens to the trust when that info turns out to be more than...

..."cheesy"? I agree, it IS a positive interaction, but kids aren't dumb. You present them something that's just a modernized version of "Reefer Madness", and they're gonna see right through it. My daughter was always "Aw, Dad...Where DO they GET this stuff?" I'd tell her "Well, let's do some research, or look at what happened to Jimmy to land him in Prison to get the straight 'Dope'...(hah-hah I made a pun)".

[cestpaspossible]

203. The kids who figure that out are the ones that end up getting tasered

years later during traffic stops.

[SouthernDem2004]

204. Unfortunately if you take the Feds grant money you have to use their

programs...

[cestpaspossible]

207. So it's right because we're paid off to do it?

:wtf:

[BiggJawn]

220. The dreaded "Double Post Bug" again....

Ignore this. Grovelbot was on the loose again...

[BiggJawn]

221. Bummer....

And if you DON'T take the Feds propaganda, then the Citizenry gets all uspet that you're not doing THEIR job of raising THEIR kids, right?

[SouthernDem2004]

222. Its not propaganda such much as its just dumb but basicly your right.

[Lerkfish]

186. but don't you think NOT stating charges LEADS to aggressive behaviour?

I know it would with me, under this totalitarian regime. If I asked what I was being charged with, and was handcuffed instead, that would tend to make me MORE upset.

I'm confused why you think the opposite.

[SouthernDem2004]

187. No...

I base this on experience. I arrest quickly in order not to give a person time to think about fighting or running. I tell them as soon as they are cuffed.

People tend to freak when you telling them they are being arrested for Domestic Violence or a felony. It is best to leave them confused for a few seconds.

Sure, some people get upset but most do not have time. Cuffing only takes a few seconds.

[Lerkfish]

188. and if you have misidentified him/her?

if you have chosen the wrong person, which might have been easily determined if you answered their questions, then you have wrongly handcuffed someone who didn't need to be.

There have been many cases of misidentification that could have been easily solved if the officer had asked the right question or the person was allowed to let the policeman know there was a mistake.

I'm glad cuffing only takes a few seconds. That way, the police officer doesn't have time to think, either.

[SouthernDem2004]

190. Lol, I guess I will reply even though you are insulting me.

Who said we do not ask questions? I do not arrest someone until I have probable cause. Once I make the decision to arrest, that person is going to be charged. Let me check, nope I never said I do not talk to the suspect prior to or after arresting. Let me check again... nope, still do not see that. I clearly or atleast thought I clearly stated, I do not tell a person what they are being charged with while I am arresting them.

Before insulting me and questioning my intelligence maybe you should reread my posts first.

[Lerkfish]

191. you take insult incorrectly and defensively here...

not my intent.

I'm talking about police in general, but since you are here I have to direct that question at you, understand?

even though YOU may be diligent in such things, I can cite numerous examples of mistaken identity, some ending in death because police read the address incorrectly or misidentified due to a similarity in appearance or even someone with a similar name, but not the suspect.

And please do not insult MY intelligence by saying that never happens.

my question was, if "you" (you here meaning any police) handcuff first without stating charges, you have essentially arrested them in such a way to increase their distress, if they happen to be misidentified...no?

If you start a thread, requesting questions, you have to be a lot more thick skinned than that. Free advice.

and perhaps you should reread MY posts. I find nothing insulting in them whatsoever.

[SouthernDem2004]

193. Uh huh....

I read your post and your intent was obvious by your last sentence.

I will try one more time. When arresting someone (the process of placing one in handcuffs) I, as most do not tell them the charge while I am arresting them. It only takes a matter of seconds. Through experience I can tell you this is the best course of action.

Your mistaken id argument does not apply. We talk to the suspect before and after the arrest. We do not arrest until we have PC. Your argument is misplaced.

[Lerkfish]

195. so.....there are NO cases of misidentification in arrests?

interesting.

again, if you did not want questions, and I think I stated them very calmly, why start these threads if you're going to just jump in anyone's face who does not completely agree with procedure?

all I was asking is, why do you think cuffing someone before charging them was a better practice. You only said "my experience tells me so"...which is fine and good, but without any details, that just reads as "because I told you so, and I'm a policeman therefore no police procedure is incorrect or could even be discussed or examined by anyone other than a policeman, which I am, so to do so is insulting to me."

:nopity:

[SouthernDem2004]

198. Huh?

I told you why in my first reply. (Hey, that rhymes!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3799889&mesg_id=3810856&page=

I fail to see how waiting 10 seconds to tell someone what they are charged with has to do with misidentifying anyone. Seems to be a different topic all together.

Anyhoo, Have fun.


Peave

[RobinA]

196. I Have a Feeling

that SouthernDem is plenty thick-skinned, given he is working in law enforcement. The amount of sniping in the questions asked of him here is amazing. Does ANYbody here on DU do ANYthing but sit around taking pot shots at people who are actually out there dealing with a little thing called reality? Sheesh. Police are human, subject to all the goodness and badness that goes along with being human. Only DUers are perfect, apparently. I wish posters here who ALLways have something negative to say about those who are out there in the thick of it would join us with their perfectness and show us how it's done.

[Lerkfish]

197. ok.

apparently asking why someone would be handcuffed without telling them what they're charged with is not "dealing with a little thing called reality".

Police ARE human, as you say, and precisely for that reason I'm not willing to automatically grant them carte blanche that every policy or procedural decision they make will be correct or in the public's best interest.

If some policy or procedure seems wonky to me, I'm going to ask about it.

your post seems to take this all rather personally, though, so if you or southerndem feel offended, which as I've stated was not my intent, you both have my apologies that you have been or felt offended.

however, I am not going to apologize for asking whether handcuffing someone before they know what they're being charged for would, in my mind, lead to more conflict rather than alleviate it.

SouthernDem points out it makes it easier for HIM to arrest the person, since they're incapacitated. However, that 's a rather selfish view of the situation. I'd imagine If I asked anyone arrested that way whether they found it easier for THEM, I'd get a different answer.

[SouthernDem2004]

199. Well my original reply answered the question:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3799889&mesg_id=3810856&page=

When people resist arrest someone often gets injured be it the Officer or the suspect. I can tell you from experience that cuffing first causes fewer incidents. See original post.

Yes, it makes it easier for ME. I am less likely to have to chase them. I will less likely have to fight them. I am less likely to be injured or killed. Also, the suspect is likely to get injured if they resist. It is just safer for all involved. The main concern after all is safety. It is not my job to die. If you get upset because someone has to wait a 10 seconds to hear their charge then you will really get upset when you find out we do not have to tell you your charge for days.

[cestpaspossible]

202. Right and wrong don't exist for the police. Only procedure.

The kind of training we give to law enforcement in this country needs to change drastically.

[TorchTheWitch]

205. that's pretty out of line

Right and wrong don't exist for the police. Only procedure.

There's more than enough evidence to suggest otherwise. It's been my experience that most police officers react more favorably toward a good looking woman then they would a big ugly guy even if the circumstances were the same... there's been a couple of times that I should have gotten a ticket but didn't because of being cute (and I KNOW that's why I didn't). Or letting someone go when they had only a small amount of pot when procedurally they should be arrested. Or letting someone speed by who they would have pulled over in nice weather but don't because it's freezing or pouring rain.

There are those police officers that let too many people go when they probably shouldn't (or definately shouldn't) and those that are far too quick to arrest/ticket. But, every single circumstance is different, and they treat them that way regardless of what the "book" says... which is exactly why there are so many complaints of officers "not doing their job" as well as acting like a nazi. If procedures were followed even MOST of the time, there wouldn't be any where NEAR as many legitimate complaints in either direction or so much cause to pre-judge.

That's got to be the most exasperating thing about being a police officer... no matter WHAT you do, you just can't win because there's always going to be somebody that thinks you were either too lenient or to harsh in any circumstance.

ALL of us would prefer that police officers act in our favor even when we're guilty as sin and know it... "I wasn't going THAT fast", "It's only a LITTLE pot", "I'm not THAT drunk", "GEE, Mr. Handsome Officer, can't you let cute little me go just this once?" "Don't you have some REAL criminals to catch?"... cut me break! Who among us hasn't been guilty of something and tried at least a little bit to wangle our way out of it? Yet, when it comes to OTHER people, we expect police officers to go by the book.

Thanks for the read, SouthernDem. I don't know how the hell you can be so patient. I would have gone ballistic way back up in the single digit numbered posts. I just don't get how people can expect officers to be both an automaton that makes no mistakes every step of the way in every circumstance without letting your own feelings/instinct/experience taint your work while also expecting compassion, understanding, morals(whatever that is) guide your work... that's one hell of an impossibly thin tight-rope.

Really, people... try being a cop for just ONE day and see how long you can stand it.

[cestpaspossible]

206. You're talking about stuff like who gets a ticket

I'm talking about whether people's rights and humanity are respected.

Look I understand that it is easy to misunderstand my comments as being anti-police. But what I am is anti- the system that victimizes police by turning them into amoral automatons - Robocops following a strict list of rules and procedure. Everybody learns Lord Acton's aphorism about power corrupting, but I don't think people really understand it... your boss is a jerk? it's probably not that he is a bad person, he's been corrupted by the power he holds... a cop beats a suspect after a foot chase? I'm not so quick to label him a 'bad apple' - I'd say he's probably a good person but is just a victim of human nature, of the corrupting nature of the power he wields daily and the knowledge that being held to account for his actions is extremely unlikely.

I just think the training given to law enforcement personnel just needs to change, because what they are getting now is not producing a good result. There need to be proactive systems in place to confront these problems, not just inquiries into individual incidents of brutality or big bucks settlements.

[SouthernDem2004]

210. I could not have said it better myself.

I have learned to quickly identify those people to ignore. Some have nothing to add and just post meaningless negatives. Their posts often get deleted when the mods happen through anyway.

There are all types of posters on DU. The anonymity allows people to act in ways that they would not in real life. Some posters allow you to quickly determine if their posts have any value. If not, best to just ignore them.

I am against alerting and deleting. I think people should be able to read all of their posts and determine for themselves the motives and value of that poster.

Also, I understand a little anger at Police. We arrest people and write citations. Those things generally do not make people happy. Its just part of the job.

[AirAmFan]

194. Why is the incarceration rate for African-American men 7.3

times the rate for white men nationwide, according to official sources (see http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/pdf/t627.pdf ), and why are racial disparities even wider in the South?

Why is this thread ignoring "the elephant in the middle of the living room"? Don't you see racial disparities in arrests, prosecutions, convictions, and sentences in your own precinct?

[proudbluestater]

208. For what legal reason can the police follow you everywhere you go?

Specifically, into every store, every mall, hospitals, every retail outlet? Do they not need some type of reason to follow you and some legal authority that enables them to contact and coordinate with other agencies (i.e. security guards at stores) to ask for you to be surveilled? What could the possible legal justification be to allow this stalking by security personnel of a law abiding, non-violent citizen?

Thanks much.

[SouthernDem2004]

209. Security:

Security personnel are not LE (law enforcement). When you are in their store or on their property they can watch you anywhere you do not have an expectation of privacy such as a changing room or bathroom. Afraid it is not considered stalking. They can follow you for no reason at all.

I can certainly see your point of view though. I have been followed by security in a store before and it is rather unnerving but I am afraid it is perfectly legal. It all falls under the Supreme Court's rulings involving "expectation of privacy."


LE in general does not use civilians for surveillance. We may subpoena civilian video tape but in general we do not enlist their aid. We can also watch/listen anywhere you do not have an expectation of privacy.

[Nobody]

212. Traffic tickets etc.

Have you ever worked in a patrol car and written out traffic tickets? I ask because the town I grew up in had a quota where the police had to write X number of traffic tickets a month, and they were notorious for never giving warnings.

In this town since they repealed the quota, they'd tailgate people to try to get them to speed. (I was a new driver driving a red car and got tailgated by police three times, including once at 5AM while on my way to work)

Do you have any thoughts on quota systems?

Have you known of instances where people were targeted by the color of their car (and most notoriously in some urban areas, the color of their skin-hard to tell at night while inside a car), or the make and model of cars?

Do you ever run people's license plates while driving behind them? Do patrol cars have a set beat or do they just drive around in the area they're patrolling?

And just because it's crossed my mind from having parents bring it up: Suppose someone carjacks you. Should you try to attract attention by violating traffic laws if you have little choice of route? or do you have a better suggestion?

By the way, I'm a very safe driver and have a spotless driving record. Nevertheless, there are few things that get the paranoia going that having a police car behind me, especially when I'm not entirely familiar with the area.

[SouthernDem2004]

214. Yes, I write tickets...

I am not a Traffic Officer but my patrol car is equipped with radar. Tailgating is not to get someone to speed. He is probably running your tag and watching to make sure you are not DUI.

Quota systems are illegal. Now that does not mean that Officers do not have pressure to write tickets. If a Traffic Officer only writes 12 tickets in a week it is obvious they are not doing their job. There are no quotas but the number of tickets does demonstrate productivity.

Vehicle color does not matter. I would suggest staying out of the fast lane though. Only stay in the fast lane long enough to pass a vehicle.

Yes, we are running your tag when we are behind you. :)

Do we have beats? Depends... Traffic Officers generally do not although they are often assigned to general areas. Patrol has beats but it depends on the agency how strict they are. At my department I can patrol the beat I am assigned and the ones around it.

Hmmm, carjacking... You certainly would want to get an Officer's attention but not in a manner that would alert the suspect. I have no real suggestions on this. Just keep your doors locked and drive off if someone approaches your car. Run a light if need be.

Peace

[Nobody]

223. Thanks this is a very informative thread. n/t

[TX-RAT]

213. Questions on Beer Runs

Are beer runs on convenience stores a problem in your area. In our small town of ( 25000 ) people, we average 30 to 35 beer runs a week. Most, if not all are done by individuals between 15 and 25 yrs of age.
How big a problem is it.
What has been done, and what's your opinion on what should be done.

[SouthernDem2004]

215. We had a problem once with teenagers...

We had a rash of thefts for a few weeks once. All we did was pull the video from the store and give it to our School Resource Officers. They took it to the schools and identified the problem children. Problem solved....

It still happens but it is rare. In store video is the way to go. If its a big problem in your small town put the pictures on the news or in the paper. Cameras in the parking lots are also helpful. Also, make sure the store prosecutes. After a few people get charged with shoplifting the number of incidents is likely to decrease.

[ArkDem]

216. What brands does your department use for the following:

1) Ammunition

2) Police Shotguns

3) Sniper Rifles

[SouthernDem2004]

217. Answers:

Ammo: Winchester Ranger
Shotguns: Varies we issue Mosberg, FN and Remington but you can carry our own.
Sniper Rifles: I do not know. I carry a rifle but I am not sniper qualified. I do not know what the snipers use.

[ArkDem]

219. Well, at least, you got one remington in there...

[SouthernDem2004]

224. shotguns yes but our sniper rifles are some other brand I am not that

familiar with. Not into the SRT thing myself.