Is this Passive/Aggressive Behavior?

[Ripley]

There's a woman at the gym I've been friends with for years. We got along great and never talked politics, except to discuss the idiosyncrasies of living in the Deep South (she's originally from Wisconsin, me, Ohio). We've both been here about 10 years.

Last spring I mentioned how I hated it that they had Fox News on one of the TV monitors in the cardio area 24/7 yet never had CNN on (not that it is really any better, but you know). She got defensive for Fox. Irritated me, but I blew it off and forgot about it... went on being her friend and even recorded a VCR tape of a replay of her son's little league game on a local cable channel that covers kids sports for her because she doesn't get cable. They live outside the cable provider area (her husband is a farmer and they can't afford it anyway). Oh yeah, as a childless person, I had no problem doing that for her.

**Side note here...how the hell does a farmer in Wisconsin, the wonderful land of cheese move to Alabama to farm?!? And I never heard a word about religion from her.**

So, last fall I see her Bush/Cheney bumpersticker. EEK! Surprised the crap outa me. But it was about then I noticed all of our conversations were different, or at least more political and she was definitely a Kool-Aid drinker.

Since the fraudulent election I have definitely noticed her ATTITUDE towards me. I have never talked to her about the Smirking Chickenhawk. But she is driving me crazy by saying shit to my face about my profession (artist) and my membership in a CSA organic food co-op (chemicals are our friend).

Today I was talking to another friend and she walked up, caught the tail end of what I was saying and mocked me! Now, 1 year ago, I would have explained the conversation and told her it wasn't what she thought it was. But for one thing she didn't even know what the fuck I was even talking about. Two, she interrupted a sorta private conversation. And three I felt she was being passive/aggressive, but I just don't know. (We used to tease each other, but not like this.)

My reaction was to totally ignore her. I didn't make eye contact, instead I walked closer to the guy I was talking to and kind of ended the conversation and left the gym.

Now I'm sure there are people here who will say I should tell her to fuck off. But you know, I left because I almost did, but caught myself. I don't want to become that person.

There are worse stories than mine, but I find that the political divisions in America are pretty damn close to home these days and that regular relationships are getting strained.

I think Psychologists in the future will have a name for this pathology for this type of behavior that is happening. But who cares? We'll all be dead.

[Dora]

1. No, that's flat-out aggressive.

Passive aggressive is when they try to goad you to action through their inaction.

[FreedomAngel82]

4. I agree that you should just ignore her

It was very rude of her to interupt your conversation and say whatever she said when she didn't even know what you're talking about. I'd just ignore her all together since you don't want any arguments at the gym and bothering people. Just don't acknolwedge her if she's acting stupid. I've noticed with people like that they act like children and you can't change how they are.

[tk2kewl]

15. yep

[TalkingDog]

2. Best option? Treat her like the child she is.

Next time you have a private moment, ask her in your best mommy voice (if you don't have a mommy voice, use Mr. Rogers') "X you seem to be upset lately, is there anything bothering you?"

It might be that she's having a crappy time at home with her struggling farmer husband, children and debt. In you, she just found a dog to kick that wasn't going to bite her back.

If that's the case, she might just welcome the chance to unload. If not and she's just being an asshole, you now have the upper hand. She can't continue be crappy to you without sinking to a new level of jerkdom and I'll bet she's not willing to play that hand.

If she decides to continue, then you have every right to draw a boundary and become "that person" with whatever degree of agression it takes.

Good Luck.

[all.of.me]

8. that is stooping to her level, though.

why be what you don't like?

i'd hit the ignore button.

[TalkingDog]

33. If you think that, you either didn't take the time to read my post....

or you didn't think it through.

In easier to understand terms I simply said:

1) Sympathetically ask if there is anything bothering her.
2) If she vents about work and hubby and home life, she's just been venting her spleen where it's safe(at you).
3) Being nice to her will either make her feel like she is valued and she will stop or it will shame her and she will stop.
4) If being nice fails and she's still a jerk, you have every right to create a safe boundary for yourself. If it requires being a less than nice person...sometimes taking care of yourself requires that. That's life.

Hope that's a little more clear.

[kaygore]

3. Alabama, is it?

I was there in Tuscaloosa for some months and was appalled at how un-Christian the Baptist were there. They fully expect the Rapture and they are going and, they made it clear, I am NOT.

I don't mind people having different views on things, but these people are so actively hostile and in your face about what they believe, especially in Alabama.

I belonged to a CSA there because my only other choice was a questionable grocery chain that went by different name and Wal-Mart/Sam's (Publix hadn't gotten across the river yet).

There are many good people in Alabama, don't get me wrong. But there are also a lot of very scary, mindless ones. I can see why George Wallace sprung from Alabama! He lives on in the Christian right but wrong in the state.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. I agree

I live in the south (Tennessee) and have noticed that with reading stories in the paper etc. These people, especially the men, can get violent. :\ I've heard some stories here on DU where they were almost ran off the road just because of a bumper sticker!

[kaygore]

22. We need more bumper stickers, then

That would cull the flock!

[Ripley]

25. Is that so?

Where'd ya live here? In the county like me, or the city limits?

Which CSA did you belong to? Which questionable grocery chain? By what different name? PM me if you have to. I'm really interested in your version of living here.

:)

[kaygore]

28. I'm new and just figuring things out

So I apologize for not PMing and using this space instead.

I lived in Cottondale and worked in the office park next to the police station. I organized the office so that a large percentage bought into the Tuscaloosa CSA.

I arrived in Alabama just as the Republican governor was trying to change the tax on lumber land so as to raise money for the schools. There was a lot of talk about how regressive the taxes are in Alabama (like unbelievably). I felt that any moron could see that all but a small percentage of the citizens would benefit from this change.

Boy was I wrong! As you know, it was defeated. The governor, despite being a Republican, is fairly farsighted. He seems to realize that with all the automotive industries moving into and expanding in the state, that there needs to be an emphasis on raising the intellectual capital of the adults in the state. He has put a lot of money into this effort and I think that it will pay off in the long run. However, preparing the state to reap the benefits of this large influx of jobs and trying to improve the education system will, I fear, be his downfall. He is not acting like a deficit creating, spend and spend Republican.

I was also there for all the crying, howling, praying, and renting of garments when Roy Moore's 10 Commandants were removed. What a spectacle! Moore should be ashamed of himself for being so manipulative with religion. But then, it's Alabama, right!

I guess what shocked me the most was how nice the Baptist Dominionists can seem and yet how very selfish they are. I was railing one day about the cost and poor quality of health insurance provided by the company, and my friend told me that there should be no health insurance paid for by companies, that everyone should take care of him-/herself. I saw this kind of behavior time and again and yet none of them saw the hypocrisy or how such an attitude the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus.

I also quickly tired of hearing that we don't really need to worry about...the environment...global warming...the end of oil...etc., etc., etc...because the Rapture was coming.

These are not stupid people that I am talking about. They are well educated, warm, out going, lovable, etc. until you stop and think about what is really going on.

I was also very disappointed in the Democrats that I encountered. I spend a lot of time in California, Oregon...the West. People tend to get off their butts and act rather than bitching. The Democrats I encountered were more interested in bitching than even calling their congress people.

Here, they'll be 20 MoveOn house parties within a mile of you. There... John Kerry MeetUps were bitch sessions. We had zillions of African Americans that we could be registering to vote, and we sat around and bitched. We had zillions of uneducated citizens whom the federal government was failing that we could have canvassed door to door and spoken with, instead we met at a mediocre coffee shop and bitched.

Before Publix came to town, I guess Brunos was an acceptable choice, but all those other stores owned by the family were pretty dicey. I was also shocked (coming from Virginia and California and Oregon) at the prices of veggies, fruits, and meats. Then add heavy taxes on that and the poor quality of foods in the stores, and I am surprised that people live to very old there.

Don't misunderstand me, I made a lot of friends and I enjoyed stomping on the fire ant hills (so hate me, PETA)--all those ants come rushing out like crazy. I wish that we Democrats were more like fire ants.

[Ripley]

29. So which CSA were you a member of?

Who's the contact for that? Name?

[kaygore]

30. Here's their URL: http://www.tuscaloosacsa.com/

http://www.tuscaloosacsa.com/

[Ripley]

31. Yeah, I'm a member.

But I wonder about your membership, and your story.

Gave you some kind of high huh?

The one and only CSA in Alabama is run by a couple of lesbians. They are well thought of and have been showcased on the local Alabama Public channel. They were one of the first farmers in America to start this program 15 years ago.

If you are here to blast these people ... I will blast your ass into outerspace! They provide the best organic food in the area and you are an asshole to try to dissuade people from being here.

Go away. Far.

[Ripley]

32. Kick for this jerk!

Who wants to pretend it's all bad!

[kaygore]

35. I'm not sure I understand

I agree with you about Tuscaloosa CSA. I am not sure what you are upset about. I didn't say anything negative about Tuscaloosa CSA or about the people who own it. It is a beautiful place (I believe that the farm belonged to one of the women's family). A year ago in the fall and then in the spring, every few weeks, I would go to prepare the vegetables for that week's pick up which was part of being part of the CSA. Once a week one of us from the company would pick up the food. I didn't need to worry about delivery because we had enough people at the company that we just delivered there.

As for my frustration with the Democrats I met. I am sorry if I offended you, but the local party itself, at least when I was there and I left the end of June of 2004, would not come out and support Kerry because he was too liberal. They feared that it would endanger their getting Democrats elected in the state. That was frustrating. Then, we would meet and rather than organize and act, we would talk. I just didn't see where it was getting us. If we got out the message and could get people to understand our position, I felt that we could start to take back the state.

You asked for my observations. I gave them. I never said anything against the women who own Tuscaloosa CSA. They are both great and what they are doing is great. In fact, I have them on my email list and still send them political and garden-relevant messages every once and a while.

Nor was I trying to "dissuade people from being" there. Again, you asked my observations and I gave them. I am sorry that I upset you and that you think that I somehow was being negative about Tuscaloosa CSA.

However, the good news for you is that I am in Portland, Oregon, which is far away, in every sense of that phrase, from you. And, the grocery stores not only have almost all organic vegetables but the meat, dairy, eggs,etc. are also organic. And, people care and care deeply.

Again, I apologize for upsetting you. Alabama is a lovely state ... of mind.

[all.of.me]

5. when people are snappy like that, they have stuff going on

one of my best friends bought the business she had managed for 12 years. it was failing. she was snappy. boy, was she snappy! in hindsight, i realized she had her problems, and that nothing she said was about me. it had nothing to do with me, it was all about her. ignore it/her. her attitude is hers, not yours.

passive/aggressive is a two-sided thing. people act friendly, but are really being quietly vicious. 'hey! that dress looks great on you (friendly) now that you've lost 30 pounds (quietly vicious).' no, that woman was being a bitch.

[Bigmack]

6. Cognitive dissonance..

another psych term.

They want so desperately to believe in Dumbya and all he stands for. As things fall to shit around him - and them - they feel torn.

They try to continue to believe, but their experience is telling them something different. They get very uncomfortable with this situation and get neurotic.

Putting it another way.... their heads explode with all the bad shit they're hearing about the godly W, and they act like assholes to compensate.

[Ripley]

12. I know you are right about CD.

But I wondered if this was P/A too?

Some folks are saying it's religion. I don't think so...she's never spoken about religion to me once in years. Odd, if one was a Southern Baptist and didn't share that.

So stop with the South bashing please! (Not you Bigmack.)

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. "I don't want to become that person. "

WHY not? THEY don't have a problem being rude and radical. Why should you? We have to start fighting back.

[Straight Shooter]

9. Maybe deep down she realizes her back is against the wall.

She can't lash out at the true source of her troubles (her belief in bush's lies), and so she picks what seems to be a safe target (you).

I genuinely believe that supporting bush causes negative changes in a person's chemistry and affects their ability to perceive reality in an objective manner. What I'm saying is, bush is creating a population of mentally skewed people who would rather continue in their delusion than lose face by admitting that their hero has created a Potemkin village type of reality.

You handled it well. Good luck in the future.

edit out redundancy

[Ripley]

14. Yes!

I know for a fact their farming is going badly. She used to be a farm wife, but has started teaching gym classes to make money.

[ArkDem]

11. To me, it's sounds like you two may be falling in love.

[SmokingJacket]

13. Things are really getting bad.

Normally, since I work at home, I only spend time with people I choose to, and those people are people I have stuff in common with, they're all liberal (some more than others, of course: but no Repubs).

I have a huge family, though, on mine and my husband's side, and getting together with them has been getting weirder and weirder. Many of them are mild conservatives (religious, like to vote republican, but don't listen to hate radio and avoid any and all news like the plague) and others are rabid Freepers.

One of the otherwise mild repubs said, when the subject of Spongebob came up, in all seriousness, "Isn't he supposed to be homosexual?" HELLO, that is a JOKE!!

And there are constant, constant, covertly and overtly anti-Semitic and racist and homophobic remarks -- it's like the "Culture War" is now THE SUBJECT for these people.

I've known all these people for at least a decade, and it's never been like this before.

[Ripley]

17. Thanks for that affirmation..

It ain't just me! People we used to know as normal, but of a different opinion, have now become freakazoids hellbent on slamming their foot in our collective teeth.

Dammit. It bothers me. And my neighbors are doing everything they can to piss me off. They are baiting me.

I'm afraid I must either go insane or become a very mean and violent individual who will buy her first gun. And I don't want to do either!!

[Az]

16. What is your goal?

What do you want to have happen? That is the first question you have to ask yourself. From there you have to determine what you have to do to have that happen.

If you respond to her emotionally (ie hurt for hurt) the matter will simply escalate and you will have created a person who bears you ill will. This is a mistake. There is no real reason for any two people to feel this way towards each other.

Its about communication. It is more than possible for people with vying positions to get along with one another if they choose to. But thats the crux. You have to decide if you choose to get along with someone so different from you. Or even if you want to make it a project to shift their path somehow(if you think you can).

But the first step is deciding what it is you want to do.

[Ripley]

19. Often admire your opinion AZ...

I don't know.

I like this person and want to be her friend. Thus your project to shift her. But I have lots of intense things going on in my life right now, so I can't do that. Don't have the time/energy.

I think the next time I see her I will say hello and do small talk. Time heals all wounds.

That is the biggest cop out I have ever written by the way. :spank:

[Dorian Gray]

24. Why don't you just tell her your concerns?

I have lots of friends who have different political opinions than I do, and though we sometimes argue passionately, we keep it on a purely policy level, never taking it to a personal level. It has helped maintain our friendships, and we find that we are able to discuss even the most difficult topics without personally attacking one another.

You just need to be open and tell her that you disagree with her, though. Otherwise, it'll be a battle of passivity, ending up in the destruction of your friendship.

(To be honest, I do have acquaintances that disagree with me, and something like this would be enough to annoy me enough to avoid the person. But, my good friends... no way!) :)

[MsTryska]

18. here's hwo to mess with her head...

next time you're talking to soemone else and you see her coming - make eye contact, and then motion to the person you're talkign to come close and whisper something hilariosu in their ear. then the two fo you need to just bust out laughing.


or you could just point and whisper at something on the horizon.

nothing like tapping into the paranoia underneatht he cognitive dissonance.

[applegrove]

20. She sounds like a kool-aid drinker. Her behavior could be many

things besides that. If you had a 'relationship' with her..she may have just figured it was okay to jump in and 'play'. Perhaps she wasn't aware of how uncomfortable you were with her politics. She could be depressed and outside herself in terms of her ability to think on the spot. She could be contemptuous of you because of her belief in Bush and the back-up she gets on the Fox TV..seems like the whole Gym (her own posse too) might be pro-Fox and that may have raised her self-esteem to unreasonable heights in the politics department. That is the sort of self-esteem the repukes are doling out to some of their followers. I don't think you can figure this one out unless you decide to have a serious discussion with her. It seems like you are saying this was outside her normal pattern..and it shocked you. Is that what you are saying - yes?

It is hard, when you are politically involved, to put things - especially truths you hold so dear - aside in any relationship. Nobody is perfect. Including yourself. Sometimes you can put your differences aside and steer clear of issues...for the other parts of the friendship. Sometimes you cannot (like if she crosses a line).

Tis best to move away from any relationship that begins to eat at you - if it is not solvable. I had a habit of not doing that in my youth.. of being too passive. And it cost me dearly over the years. I had people in my life who when i asked for space..would just deny me. So ask her for some space. Tell her how deeply the political situation affects you and ask her to 'not go there'. If she cannot handle that..and see your truth..she is no friend.

Just like on the boards..if talking politics begins to take a toll, and you are not bolstered up enough by: meds or faith or drive or anger or love of your country - enough - you need to take a break if you cannot solve the issues (which we are powerless to solve until 2006 at least - though we try). No sense in letting her whittle away at your sense of oneness. You are after all in a gym. You are there for your own dam health & spirit. If you need a friend..plant a community garden with like minded people and get find your pals in that community.

I would have walked away from any horribly uncomfortable situation like you did. Now - with age and some awful experience - I might try to handle the situation by diffusing it with humor if I am at the top of my game. It is not always appropriate for me to be transparent so I cannot always do that. But I have to admit..there was a year in my life when I lost the last vestiges of my brain to depression ... and I had no working memory.. and I interrupted in my desperation to be involved. I cringe now when I think about it.

You may want to ask her if she is depressed or something. If you are going to have a talk with her.. ask her to explain and set your boundaries at the same time.

Repukes really did win this last election by stealing hearts and minds. And you see the emotional toll on the boards. And you do see cruelty on the side of the freepers. Especially after the last election. Now when - in your or my memory - did your Republican neighbors ever go after you ...after your guy/gal lost an election? When did you ever target them when a Democrat one? I cannot recall it ever happening. You may want to point that out to her. The boundary violations and renewed adolescence (adults don't attack 'others' needlessly unless they are warped) are part of what the GOP teaches.

[Ripley]

21. Your post is odd.

You make some good points, but you also condescend a lot.

I'm not a kid. Friend is not a kid. Games like yours are moot.

[applegrove]

23. Games? I admit I couldn't tell how old you were. But I was not

suggesting games. I said to ask her. What is up - and keep your options open. You said you couldn't tell if she was passive-aggressive. I said ask her? You implied she was toying with you beyond what was acceptable. I said it could be a number of things..kool-aid and mean-spirited political ankle nipping could be one thing. Being off her 'game' could be another.

Of course as someone who interrupted at one time in my life..I put my own filter on it. I don't know you.

Sorry.:hi:

[mcscajun]

26. Ain't nothing Passive about it. It's just Aggression.

Plain and simple.

Her motive (unknown even to her) might be displacement; she's freaked out about her farming problems, has the problems most folks due 'cause of BushCo, but can't place her anger there...so you get it.

[hatrack]

27. Tell her she needs a timeout

If that doesn't work, tell her to go fuck herself. You need her like you need guinea worms, dysentary or 20 extra pounds.

[BiggJawn]

34. I would have challenged her on it.

like "Well, WHO put the burr up YOUR kootchie?"
You'd probably found out she was just gonna regurgitate FAUX-Nooz talking points and considered herself SO snmart and well-informed because of that.

Also, her husband's a farmer? Obviously, she's heard that her husband can't get as much Federal give-a-way money and WELFARE as he thinks he deserves because of those welfare frauds in the city and the NEA giving BILLIONS to "people like you" for smearing shit on a board and calling it "art"...

You could either ingore her, or push into her comfort bubble and possibly re-ignite her thought process, but I seriously doubt it. Kool-Aid drinkers have to find out their Gawds have clay feet for themselves...

[kaygore]

36. You may have just misinterpreted

If you like this woman,then you need to ask her directly what her motivation was. You may have misinterpreted her actions and words. You misinterpreted what I was saying and somehow took my observations about Alabama in general to be aimed at Carol and Jean, which could not have been further from what I meant. Maybe this is also what happened with the woman in your message. It is worth trying to resolve the issue.

If we can reach across our differences with the Republicans and find some common ground, then we can start a dialog and may be resolve our differences or at least find common goals we can both work toward. The whole country would be better if we could bridge the chasm that the Limbaugh/O'Reilly/Fox crowd and then Bush have been able to create between Democrats and Republicans in this country.

But, even more important is that we don't fight among ourselves. I feel as though you lured me into providing the information you requested and then you attacked me for no reason. It was not a fair fight because I didn't even know I was in a fight. I think you may be seeing enemies where there are none and this woman in the story may not be your enemy after all as I am not your enemy.

Just an observation which, I guess, you can come back and attack and call me a jerk again.