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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 01:20 PM
Original message
Regarding Domestic Terrorism
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Violent animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists now pose one of the most serious terrorism threats to the nation, top federal law enforcement officials say.

Senior officials from the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms (ATF) and Explosives told a Senate panel Wednesday of their growing concern over these groups.

Of particular concern are the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).

John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said animal and environmental rights extremists have claimed credit for more than 1,200 criminal incidents since 1990. The FBI has 150 pending investigations associated with animal rights or eco-terrorist activities, and ATF officials say they have opened 58 investigations in the past six years related to violence attributed to the ELF and ALF.



I had posted the following comments in another thread regarding this article and someone suggested I post them in their own separate thread, so here goes:

...and so begins the full scale application of the Patriot Act and terrorism laws against American Citizens. ELF and ALF now, Sierra Club and Greenpeace will be sure to follow. Then what? Then who? Where does it stop? Pagans, democrats, muslims, anyone that opposed anything this administration wants to do? Anyone that fights fascism and fights for truth and opennesss in government? How about virtually everyone on this board. Am I a terrorist for reading "The Monkey Wrench Gang"? Or for being a dues paying member of the Sierra Club?

Less than $200 million in damages in the last 15 years. Hell the U.S. military does that every day in Iraq, killing thousands of innocents in the last few years. Are our uniformed men and women terrorists? While I would argue no, you could also easily debate the other side of the issue. Torturing and murdering in some cases, desecrating holy symbols, destroying public institutions, in what could very easily be argued as an illegal war. Now I do not say that this is the majority of our military members. The overwhelming majority are just trying to do their job so they can get home, if they have a home to return to that is. While the vast majority of members in groups such as ELF and ALF support the ideals of the groups, I would also argue that most of them have never actually participated in any of these activities. Ohhh...but they funded them. Well as a taxpayer, I have funded the illegal war in Iraq, better come take me away to the dock of the bay...Guantanamo that is.

How many people have died from their activities? That would be a big fat fucking ZERO. Now I do not condone the actions by these groups, nor am I a member, but I certainly sympathise with their beliefs in many ways. While they may be arsonists and vandals, are they really terrorists?

Burning SUV's is now apparently equivalent to assassinations done by al Qaeda or other "religous extremists". Where are our own religous extremists on this list? Any mention of abortion clinic bombings where people HAVE died? KKK? Murderers, yup, didn't hear about them other than to say that there attacks have been declining. Could that be bacause they have gained a little traction with the ideologues in government? Hmmm....

Please explain how a minority group makes its cause known when the government turns a total blind eye and when environmental laws are rolled back; when misleading names such as "Clear Skies" are fluffed out to the public? When our pristine forests will be opened up for logging? When forests are logged under the guise of bettering the health of the forest? When habitat is destroyed for inconsequential supplies of oil that will make no impact, well except to perhaps supply the military a bit more as it smacks down the iron fist on the unsuspecting American Citizen. This country fights to expand freedom? Are you fucking kidding me.

Olaf


...and my further elaboration...

It is a transition that most are unaware of, but clear for anyone looking at the indicators. Why pray tell, is it necessary to suddenly implement all these radical changes in such a short period of time? Is there some huge event approaching that the majority of the public is unaware of? Could it be energy issues? Oil? Personally, I think perhaps. This Nation is slowly being primed for total control. Social program deconstruction, weakening of bankruptcy protections, abolishment of civil liberties, control and consolidation of the media, intimidation on the public, pre-emptive attacks on sovereign nations, strengthening of corporate rights and privileges, weakening of environemental protections, ignoring and changing rules in Senate, secrecy in government, rigging of elections, weakening of the spending power of the majority middle class, outsourcing jobs, limiting medical coverage and affordability, and much much more.

You might ask how they can expect to get away with this? Do they not know the public will not allow this? That we will vote them out of office? You see, the thing is, they ARE aware of this, which is why they are changing all the rules and laws. Let me be clear...THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF RELINQUISHING POWER. They have put in all their chips on one bet and they think they have a winning hand, just ask Rove. They intend to maintain control, one way or another. If you disagree, prepare for your reprogramming and Ministry of Love smackdown Texas style.

Peace be with you all. Watch your asses.

Olaf
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Particularly when radical right to lifers do have a body count
As well as other charges.

It just shows what this administration values - not life, but property.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Since 1990, there have been 24 murders/attempted murders at abortion
clinics by pro-life extremists. 24 people dead or targeted for death. There have also been 168 bombings, arsons, or attempts at same. Again, abortion providers. In 2001, there were 554 anthrax hoaxes targeting abortion clinics/providers.

Who are the terrorists, again?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Our judges have recently been terrorized, as well, by right-wingers!!!
Hell, how come those STUPID rabid right-wing representatives aren't placed on the list for their comments about judges!!!! They certainly were guilty of inciting folks!!! :grr:

I guess the fascists are in charge therefore fascism is okay!
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. KICK!
:kick:
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ok, gratuitous self-kick for what I consider an important topic. N/T
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. ACLU Seeks Files from FBI on Possible Surveillance
ACLU Seeks Files from FBI on Possible Surveillance
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0518-01.htm

Published on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 by the Boston Globe

ACLU Seeks Files from FBI on Possible Surveillance
by Jonathan Saltzman

The American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts is seeking FBI files on behalf of four advocacy groups and 10 activists in the state, saying it believes they have been targets of surveillance because of their politics.

Keith Harvey says a man he confronted outside the American Friends Service Committee’s Cambridge of?ce told him he worked for the US Department of Homeland Security. (Globe Staff Photo / Lane Turner)

The ACLU, in Freedom of Information Act requests it plans to send out today, is requesting all records kept by the FBI and antiterrorism agencies on the American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker group in Cambridge; the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, which has a state chapter in Boston; the International Action Committee Boston, an antiwar group, and the ACLU itself. The letter also seeks government files on 10 activists and political dissidents, including such liberal heavyweights as Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky.

Carol Rose, executive director of the ACLU chapter in Massachusetts, said several activists believe they have been under surveillance for at least a year, including around the time of the Democratic and Republican national conventions last summer.

..more..

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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. How dare anyone disagree?
Edited on Thu May-19-05 02:23 PM by olafvikingr
That will, plain and simply, no longer be tolerated by the powers that be, as clearly evident with the discussion in the Senate occurring right now, with regard to the judicial nominations.

Kerry is currently speaking quite well on it, to no avail I fear.

Olaf
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Proving that they are targeting political dissidents, humanitarians,...
,...human and civil right orgs, pacifists (I mean, good God, they targeted AFSC!!!) JUST AS EVERY FASCIST LEADER OF THE PAST DID!!!!

That should scare the shit out of every American citizen!!!!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. It's starting...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you, Olaf. You make clear the dangers we face.
The fact that radical changes are being pushed by radical leaders should stir any American's sensibilities!!!!

How hard must the faces of citizens be slapped before they snap out of the fog of right-wing propaganda!
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. It makes me shake my head and truly wonder what this
Edited on Thu May-19-05 03:01 PM by olafvikingr
world and Nation have come to. Are power and greed truly so intoxicating? Are we so inflexible? Have we no vision or ability to change when our path is wrong? Is it so important that everything, for everyone, everywhere be exactly one way, theirs?

Well, I for one, will not walk lock-step swinging my arm from sky to chest as I crush heel to earth. I have my own brain. I have my own heart. I have my own values. These have been instilled in me from multiple facets of society and culture. I know that I am not alone in this. I see the chink in the armor. I have pushed aside the curtain and viewed the man behind it. He is a vile beast.

I stand now in opposition. I will continue to stand in opposition. I may not have all the answers, but I certainly know there is more than one, just as certainly I know that their way, based on all the evidence I have seen, is WRONG. Wrong for us, wrong for them, and wrong for the world.

Now I'm fired up!


Olaf
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Honestly, people have been slowly brainwashed,...
Edited on Thu May-19-05 03:05 PM by Just Me
,...but never have I witnessed, at least not in my lifetime, such an explosion of interest and concern. Even in small town rural America, there were more compassionate people fighting back against this ruthless power than ever before.

There are Americans who are wide awake,...still too many so slow to awaken.

I haven't lost hope,...but, I do find myself making plans for the worst,...something I NEVER believed I would even consider being possible: making plans just in case we fall fully into fascism. That is sad,...isn't it,...for any American to find him/herself in such a space?
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. It is beyond sad. We used to represent the hope of the world.
We have not always deserved that status, but still much of the world viewed us as such. Not anymore. This culture, and I mean modern capitalistic culture in general, needs to find new ideals to live by. One that is not driven by greed, growth, and power. You can see where that has gotten us.

Olaf
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Because damaging property is so much more vile than killing people
Edited on Thu May-19-05 03:09 PM by Walt Starr
Why do you hate America?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. .
:kick:
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
16. Good point
Especially since the focus STILL is not on the types of groups that resulted in the OK City Bombing nor the Olympics bombing in Atlanta.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Slightly OT-This very scary thought struck me just now...
Edited on Thu May-19-05 04:26 PM by TheGoldenRule
after reading and posting on DU and some other sites for hours this morning. And while it's probably been mentioned before somewhere here on DU....but...wasn't it totally bizarre how *s reactions to 9/11, the Asian Tsunami, and the airplane scare in DC the other day were ALL THE SAME?! Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth as these events occurred....all of which scared the hell out of people, in addition to fact that thousands died as a result of 9/11 and the Tsunami! WTF?!

Gawd, talk about getting the chills! This country and it's people are really on the precipice....aren't we? We really do need to watch our backs! :scared:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Agreed, thus: "Apology, why? Why would Bu$h ever apologize?"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3669484

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Be it MNA Day 3 or 8 or 15 or .... the day will come when 10s of millions of Americans and others stop their typical activities for 24 hours and urge 10 times that many to join should another MNA Day be required. On that glorious day what we once called "America" will emerge.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
18. Neoconification of what was formerly 'America' continues.
"THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF RELINQUISHING POWER."

Yes, Olaf, you are correct.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3688434

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. See, though they have repeatedly proven themselves capable,...
Edited on Thu May-19-05 04:46 PM by Just Me
,...of the most egregious behavior to acquire, secure and expand their power,...doesn't even seem to hit people!!!

Moreover, they are completely convinced that their ideology represents an absolute truth even though it betrays elements of democracy and honor and freedom and integrity.

They are extremists and, as such, their SECRET "plans" scare the beejeebus out of me. I would think every American citizen would be, at minimum, extremely concerned!!!!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. One would have thought the same thing about hundreds of thousands....
.... of good Germans in 1933, 1934, 1935, ... and you would be correct.

When you mix an apathetic, lethargic society and aggressive propaganda you get exactly what we are facing now -- the demise of "America," the willful, scripted destruction of our Constitutional democracy by Bu$h and his fellow neoconster war criminals.

Remember, Hitler never received even ~ 40% of the popular vote in the honest elections that occurred before he became Chancellor.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. But, I believe there is something a bit different, here,...
Edited on Thu May-19-05 06:59 PM by Just Me
First of all, Germany wasn't "apathetic, lethargic". Recall, the German people were feeling "defeated" and "weak",...THOSE are the feelings of which Hitler advantaged himself.

What's happened, is happening in the USA, is a feeling of "inadequacy" and "failure" because everything any American ever sees on TV reduces him/her to either irrelevant or victim or unrewarded. No American is EVER good enough EVER!!!

Our regime is taking advantage of Americans who FEEL inadequate, like they are never good enough, dealing with the frustration of having done the right and good things with NONE of the faux rewards relating to the "American Dream".

They haven't a clue that their suffering is directly tied to corporatism. Well, many have the understanding that CEOs are being lavished with excessive rewards. But, they are constantly diverted, disconnected from the FACT that those same CEOs are directly responsible for their own suffering: inadequate reward for being a good, hard-working human being.

On edit: no one will convince me to "try" or persecute the victims,...and,...the vast majority of Americans, in this case, are the victims,...just as the German people were victims of a vicious regime.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The republican machine has been very adept at bringing
divisive issues to the forefront and using misleading language to confuse people. By bringing up such issues as gay marriage, creationsim or "intelligent design" in schools, while appealing to patriotism to remain united, support the troops, stay the course, etc. infinitum. Simple bait and switch. Nothing more. While we haggle, battle, moan and groan; they destroy our Nation and any hope for it's future.

Olaf
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. I do have to say though...
I am very often frustrated with this board. Not with the individuals, but often due to all of the additional bad news it brings to my attention. I think it causes me more stress in general than it helps me. However, at this particular moment I am somewhat heartened. It does bring me some comfort to know that there are a number of others out there experiencing the same thing as me. It makes me hope that as things become worse, we will simply reach a critical mass where the people of this country will simply not tolerate even one more atrocity. That whatever the course of action needed, we will take it, and not slink back in fear. The worm turns, and we will not always be the minority. Ordinary people can do extraordinary things in times like these.

Peace.
Olaf
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. For me, that's not hope,...that's faith!!!!
I have FAITH that humanity will work through this critical period in our history.

Maybe, it's even more than FAITH (which many view as some blind imagination) since our own recorded history has proven that, somehow and some way,...we do manage to make improvements. We ALWAYS do!!!
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. So basically, the threat of REAL terrorism is low...
When will the color code be downgraded?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. *LOL* The imperialists had to create a reason to expand their power.
When "communism" disappeared, they had to find a more shadowy enemy to justify their power-mongering.

You, you, silly killbot, you!!!!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. .
(I confess that I am stubborn)
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. What convoluted logic!
The ELF, ALF, and so-called "ecoterrorists" are regarded as terrorists, but the KKK, Aryan Nations, the Fristian fundamentalists, and other right-wing terrorist organizations are not? :mad: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. More members should weigh in on this.
I, personally, belief the logic isn't really convoluted,...the purpose is control.

This is intended to beat down any opposition associated with "the left" which challenge the authority of our neoCON regime.
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Nordmadr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-19-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. The frightening thing is to ask yourself
"How far do I think they are willing to go"? My mind gives me an answer I am truly not pleased with.

Olaf
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kick
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