"The answer is for the United States to stop torturing Muslims."

[LynnTheDem]

But it is not the responsibility of Newsweek to bow to the Pentagon if Rumsfeld feared a bad response in the Muslim world.

Nor is it the responsibility of Newsweek to worry on its own about the repercussions and spike a story as a consequence.

What is the logic of Newsweek's view here? That even if the story were true, it should have backed down and not published the piece because of the reaction that might occur?

Let's be clear: To avoid rioting in the Muslim world, the answer is not for the press in the United States to muzzle itself. The answer is for the United States to stop torturing Muslims.

Newsweek's obligation is to publish the truth.

http://www.progressive.org/webex05/wx051705.php

REPEAT:

The answer is for the United States to stop torturing Muslims.

[forgethell]

1. And, yet,

it takes a really vivid imagination to equate "desecrating" the Koran with torture, like, oh, holding helpless and innocent civilian hostages captive for weeks on end, then beheading them by sawing through their necks with a dull knife.

It is the Muslims, themselves, who are desecrating the Koran by not protesting these gross abuses of their peaceful religion by their co-religionists.

[LynnTheDem]

2. Many Muslims HAVE and CONTINUE to protest radicals who behead etc

Well except in places like SAUDI ARABIA where the law allows for beheadings. They don't use a dull knife tho, apparently.

LOVE your broad brush remark, tho.

:sarcasm:

[forgethell]

7. Have they now?

Not very loudly. No riots against Osama, for instance. Plenty against Christians.

Hey, of course there are exceptions. But the brush I used pretty accurately sums up the situation that I see.

[wuushew]

13. You need to look harder then

Arab moderates and intelligentsia certainly do strive for reform in the Middle East. What they accomplish at all is impressive and should not held to your personal standard of success. It certainly undermines their efforts when we engage in these horrible practices and continue unfair and biased foreign policy.

[forgethell]

15. Unfair and biased foreign policy?

Certainly our policies should be dedicated to advancing our national interests, wouldn't you say? Like everybody else's?

[GiovanniC]

16. Yes! Fuck All Those Other Fuckers!

We must ensure that we get everything we are entitled to! And we are entitled to everything... who's gonna stop us? Am I right!?

[forgethell]

21. No you are not

[GiovanniC]

24. All I Was Doing Was Agreeing With You

[forgethell]

26. No you were not, and

certainly I'm not agreeing with you.

[The Magistrate]

30. A Line From An Old Song Comes To Mind, Sir

Apropos of nothing, really....

"I don't want the world; I just want your half."

[forgethell]

34. As you say, your honor

"apropos of nothing".

Certainly without relevance to my post insofar as I can see.

[The Magistrate]

41. It Has Always Struck Me, Sir, Since First Hearing It

As a wickedly humorous comment on both the tendency of humans and their institutions for self-aggrandizement, and the blindness and self-deception often displayed in pursuit of same. The matter at hand here is, at bottom, the fact of an expanding imperial policy that the current regime of the United States is seeking to press by military force: the particular thing is merely an incidental detail flowing naturally from this. You do seem, Sir, to understand that pious noises about "spreading Democracy" and the like are merest piffle puffed up over the fact of pursuit of aggrandizing the perceived interests of the nation, or even of a particular strain of its leading commercial and industrial class. We are probably agreed, for example, that unfettered access to oil is a necessity for our country, and that securing this, and securing it as cheaply as possible, is a necessary goal of its policy at this time. Whether a course of military domination is the best way to achieve this is the arguable question, to my view.

[forgethell]

49. I think we are in approximate agreement.

A sudden cut-off of oil for example would quickly clarify a lot of people's thinking. It wouldn't be a pretty sight, though.

[Just Me]

45. LMAO

:rofl:

Whew,...that made my belly hurt and eyes tear!

:rofl:

[LynnTheDem]

51. Made me have to hobble to the can before I wet myself

from laughing so hard.

:rofl:

[Just Me]

56. Precious moments,...

,...moments so full of hope through humor,...our bladders are leaking.

Gawd!!! I love those!!!

[LynnTheDem]

58. I just don't love the laundry bill...

LOL! :D :D :D

[GiovanniC]

31. You Said That Our Foreign Policy Doesn't Need to Be Fair

That we should just worry about US and OUR national interests, whatever those are.

Loosely translated: Fuck all those fuckers.

[forgethell]

33. I certainly did not

say that our foreign policy didn't need to be fair. What I said was that it should serve our national interests. Other countries have their own governments to serve theirs, and they do.

Why should we be any different? Why should there be a double standard?

On edit: your translation is worse than "loosely translated" it is deliberately mis-translated. I neither said, nor meant that.

[GiovanniC]

43. So You Are Saying That

Our foreign policy needs to be fair, that we need to stop torturing Muslims, that the world is not the plaything of the United States... so why all the arguing with everyone who hold those same beliefs?

[forgethell]

54. Because,

you have set up a black-and-white scenario. The world consists of shades of gray. And all of us are human and make non-malicious mistakes that have to be gotten through.

Being fair does not mean letting yourself be taken advantage of either. It does not mean that we are bound by the decisions of other countries, either, especially if they want us to pay. There is no world government. Nor does it mean letting the blood-thirsty slaughter of 3000 innocent people go unavenged. My gripe with Bush is the way he has chosen to go about it.

[LynnTheDem]

60. What does 911 have to do with anything the OP was about???

LAST TIME, what the OP was about:

MUZZLING the US Press about the bad shit we do will not help. What we must do is STOP DOING THE BAD SHIT.

And had you bothered to read the link in the OP, you'd have known that, and you'd have known that nowhere did the article compare desecration of the Q'uoran with torture or with any other of your strawmen.

[forgethell]

67. We do seem to

have drifted away from the original subject a little, but I was trying to answer the immediate preceding post. The OP did mention the Newsweek story, did it not? And what was the story about? I think I've tried to stay on subject.

[LynnTheDem]

72. OP: Muzzling the US Press to stop them reporting bad shit we do will NOT

help.

We must STOP DOING THE BAD SHIT.

***

That simple.

[GiovanniC]

62. Which 3,000 People Could You Be Referring to, Pray Tell?

If we are allowed to "avenge" the 3,000 innocent people who died on 9/11 by detaining Muslims (who may or may not have anything whatsoever to do with 9/11) without charges in prisons where they are subject to torture and mistreatment, I wonder what kind of vengeance you would think the Muslim world should be allowed to exact against US for our slaughter of over 100,000 innocent Iraqis.

You think that 3,000 deaths should not go unavenged.

Surely you must think 100,000 deaths should not go unavenged.

Therefore, what sort of vengeance do you think would be justified for the Muslim world to realize against the United States?

[Just Me]

68. 9/11 did NOT authorize torture or murder or tossing away the rule of law.

Anyone who makes that argument, is a sociopath.

Ridiculous!!!

[GiovanniC]

74. I Agree Wholeheartedly

[Just Me]

104. No more "9/11 changed everything" excuse to abuse power!!!

The rabid right-wing throws that carrot out every damn time they seek to abuse their power, break the rules, violate laws, betray the American people.

I am sick of it!!!

[LynnTheDem]

77. BINGO!!!

And unless someone is a racist who believes only white-skins and/or Americans are entitled to revenge the deaths of their fellow citizens, then one MUST agree with your post.

Math for Revenge:

Iraq = 25 million population.
USA = 250 million (reduced for easy math)

USA = 2600 US killed on 911 by NO IRAQIS whatsoever.
Iraq = 100,000 Iraqis killed by the US.

How many 911 attacks has the US perpetrated against Iraq?

[Bouncy Ball]

78. And, we ask ourselves, what vengeance was Al-Quada wreaking

on those 3,000? This didn't just happen out of the blue. The 3,000 were innocents, but the vengeance thing is just a crazy merry-go-round no one can get off of.

[meganmonkey]

80. Maybe if we all jump off that merry-go-round at the exact same second

it'll stop?

I know I want to get off of it :(

[CantGetFooledAgain]

84. "the blood-thirsty slaughter of 3000 innocent people "

Yes, I'm interested in that as well. Perhaps with your unique perspective you can tell me why your president blocked the formation of a 9/11 commission, would not testify under oath, would not allow recordings or notes made of his testimony, and would only do it with Dick Cheney present?

Have you thought about 9/11 at all? Done any resesarch at all? Does everything add up? Are you convinced that our government had nothing at all to do with it?

Or is it all just "shades of gray"?

[forgethell]

99. No, I don't

think the government had anything to do with it. Except for general incompetence, of course

[CantGetFooledAgain]

101. Who has been held responsible for this

"general incompetence" of which you speak? I would think that such incompetence as to cost three thousand lives would at least warrant somebody losing their job.

And why would Bush and Cheney only agree to testify secretly, together, not under oath, and with no notes or recordings allowed? If the government had nothing to do with it, why not just tell everything you know about what happened, publicly, under oath, and be done with it?

Why weren't fighter planes scrambled to intercept the airliners? They had plenty of time and could have prevented the attacks.

Why did the FBI block multiple investigations that would have exposed the hijackers?

Again I ask: have you done any research at all? Take a look at 911truth.org.

I know that you are a right-winger, but I'm sure you don't condone mass murder performed by your own government.

[wuushew]

18. national interests stop at the U.S. border

The Soviet Union is gone, and no country since WWII has declared war on us. The residual problems that affect us are matters of a criminal nature spurred in large part by our economic and military imperialism abroad and disproportional support of the state of Israel.

[forgethell]

23. I won't argue

I/P questions on this forum, except to say we will probably disagree.

[The Magistrate]

36. National Interests, Sir, Hardly Stop At The Border

All countries, and our's is no exception, have interests extending well beyond that. All economies depend on trade between nations in raw materials, agricultural products, and finished goods, for no country is self-sufficient in even the barest necessities. There may well be argument over the best ways to secure access, and protect access, to these items, and so maintain the necessary intercourse of trade, but the necessity of the thing itself, and its vital importance, is past dispute.

[wuushew]

70. I can argue against that

all the raw materials needed for industrial and post industrial society exist within the continent of North America. We have large amounts of coal, iron, nickel and other various strategic metals. Aluminum and radioactive ores exist in some quantities.

We also have more than adequate timber resources and agriculture land to feed our current population. We CHOOSE to engage in trade because it is a more satisfactory and cheaper way of sustaining our way of life. Our arrogant hedonism has made it far to easy to commit injustices in far away lands on people who have no representation in our political process.

If the wealth of this country was reduced by a half or even two thirds we could easily survive. So disproportionate is our consumption of resources that the solution is simply a matter of proper redistribution.

Melt down the church's gold, melt down Trump Tower, raise taxes on Bill Gates. These solutions are politically unpalatable and so we choose the status quo. Oil is a dwindling resource that will someday be depleted, assuming we manage to live without it should not we start sooner rather than later?

The Europeans still I imagine would like to freely trade with us as would the Chinese and Japanese. We enjoy the benefits of free trade as well as do our trading partners. However, I do not advocate a Neo-Carter Doctrine that forces the muzzle of Amerikan military might into areas of strategic interest.

If someone does not wish to sell us a strategic resource then the result should be an increase in the cost of that commodity to account for its scarcity and volatility. What right do we have to exercise any coercive force at all outside our own borders? 9/11 was a domestic crime carried out by people legally within our country and subject to our domestic and aviation laws. Somehow that horrible event turned into to a grand crusade involving much of the Islamic world.

Our foreign policy has turned into a version of Tom Cruise's movie Minority Report, where we operate on principles of pre-crime, and as is now fashionable pre-ventative war. Such ideas clearly illustrate the problems of trying to predict future events and or human nature. Such problems are only more pronounced involving foreign lands and alien cultures. It seems to me the sanest course of action is to react to events as they happen to to correctly prosecute actions after the fact inside one's own politcal boundries.

[Just Me]

73. National interests COMPEL us to respect the rule of law!!

Our rules of law PROHIBIT and exact as CRIMINAL the violation of basic human rights. TORTURE IS A CRIME!

With respect to all your economic arguments,...the corporacrats have been making laws to allow them to extremely abuse others economically,...but TORTURE is still a crime, period.

[wuushew]

76. I agree completely

I was merely arguing that current foreign policy problems and violations are partially a result of economic imperialism.

Terrorism is caused by us being in the economically important Middle East, which causes violence, which causes further American interference ad nauseum.

Ween yourself from the oil and you never have to deal with the problem in the first place.

[The Magistrate]

82. Any Proposal, Sir

That involves reducing the wealth of a nation by a third or a half can only be brought to enactment by artillery, and plenty of it, along with great quantities of barbed wire and numerous cattle cars. The thing is not a serious proposal, and a moment's reflection ought to reveal that....

[Vladimir]

86. And that is the paradox, isn't it?

Citizens in a multi-party democracy will not vote to reduce their own standard of living. Yet by many accounts, although the issue is contentious, if the West does not cut back on its excesses we will not leave much of an Earth for the future generations. It would be quite the irony if the human race voted itself into oblivion because of the inability to see past short term interests...

[The Magistrate]

96. It Is Indeed, Gospodin

Though it is what my view of historical cases leads me to expect. Our motto as a species seems to have been stated by the man who said, "In the long run, we are all dead...."

[PsychoDad]

90. I would agree...

About our national intrerests, but I would also stress that geting along with our neighbors in the world might be in our vital interests also. Diplomacy may work better than bombs in the long run.

[The Magistrate]

95. You Will Get No Argument From Me On That Score, Sir

Though sometimes it is necessary to put a bit of stick about. Violence is seldom appropriate, but in those few instances where it is, nothing else will serve the turn....

Once the Sage wrote: "Weapons are instruments of fear: they are not a wise man's tools. He uses them only when he has no choice."

[Walt Starr]

93. BRAVO, SIR!

Well said!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[The Magistrate]

97. Thank You, Mr. Starr!

Your compliment is a high pleasure indeed, Sir!

Happy hunting!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

83. Is it in our national interest to torture people and flame a religious war

by flushing their religious symbols?

[LynnTheDem]

17. Your thinking that most Muslims support extremist terroristic activities

simply shows that you in fact don't see very well.

Your remark about advancing US interests is :wow:

[Just Me]

22. Using actions by extremists to excuse torture. Disgusting.

Round and round this rationalization will go in order to avoid personal responsibility for our own actions.

Do we lead by our own example or by the example demonstrated by extremists?

Hmmmm,...sounds like another victory being handed to terrorists, to me. How quick some people hand over their power to choose.

You're right, Lynn. The torture must cease!!!! :grr:

[LynnTheDem]

28. Very disgusting. Unbelievable how often some morans say "THEY do it!"

So that makes it "ok" in the morans' minds for us to do it.

I'm waiting for morans to say "Well HITLER did it!" to justify bush's invasions & occupations of nations that weren't doing a damn thing to us or to anyone else. :eyes:

It's "ok" for us to commit genocide -YES, GENOCIDE- by dropping bombs on entire cities. But BEHEAD SOMEONE???!! How BARBARIC! (Unless done by bush's buddies, then it's ok, as is boiling people to death etc).

DEAD is DEAD, morans.

And of course it's totally off the entire OP point.

POINT:

COVERING UP the BAD SHIT we're doing (by muzzling the Press) will NOT HELP.

STOP DOING THE BAD SHIT.

[LynnTheDem]

38. Ok, have links to morans saying "THEY do it!" but we don't wanna link

to those kind of garbage sites; the stench is too overpowering.

Just go to freeperland to find all the "THEY do it so it's ok for us to do it" morans. (Do they REALLY think Jesus is on THEIR SIDE???! :wow: )

[Just Me]

47. Violation of basic human rights is not only evil, it is ILLEGAL, a crime!!

Criminals don't get off the hook by asserting that there are other criminals doing the same thing or worse.

The brain-twisting crap that these fascists utilize to excuse their own criminality is anti-social and just, plain SICK!!!

[forgethell]

25. You are inferring what I

did not imply. I didn't suggest that most Muslims support terrorist activities. Just that I didn't see them protesting them and rioting like I did for the Koran being flushed down the commode. In fact, they seem to show the same level of concern for their terrorist co-religionists that I show for the Koran incident.

That doesn't mean that I approve of it, and I am not saying that they approve of terrorism, either. These are just not areas that overly concern us, respectively. Show me where I'm wrong.

[Swamp Rat]

46. You are wrong by hijacking this thread

You have, or at least you are attempting to, reframe the topic of this thread.

[Just Me]

50. All OVER the thread. Who is this person?

:shrug:

.

[Swamp Rat]

53. You are learning right now

I am well acquainted. x(

The upshot is, I finally get to put all my linguistics training to use. :)

[Just Me]

59. No. I already knew.

And I am greatly appreciative of the effective use of language to impose logic by you and others here.

:hug:

[forgethell]

55. I don't think so.

But if you do, hijack my answers.

I don't consider dissing the Koran to be an offense that passes the laugh test. This is my issue. You are free to "frame" it differently, but I won't be distracted from my own concerns.

[Swamp Rat]

66. You will not be able to turn this around on me

I am too smart. :D

"but I won't be distracted from my own concerns." - "Concerns" which are becoming very apparent.

[Frederik]

94. The "riots" (protests)

Were NOT caused by this story! That is a right-wing canard that you have swallowed. And the people who were killed were shot BY THE POLICE! For protesting! Yes, that is America's ally in the war on terror!

[clem_c_rock]

65. Maybe it's because they know Osama is the US E Goldstein

Some people aren't as gullible as Amurcans.

[leftchick]

11. Our other ally Egypt tortures and beheads as well...

we have so MANY nice friends.

[Debs]

4. I dont get your argument with his point

Are you denying we did in FACT torture Moslems in Abu Ghraib and Bagram Air Force Base? For me I see little difference between beheadings like they have done and beating people to death as WE have done. I agree with the general point, that at least part of the answer is to STOP TORTURING MOSLEMS

[forgethell]

9. I suppose it depends

on your definition of torture. Mine does not include "desecrating" the Koran.

[Debs]

29. Which would make sense IF

Thats all we did. It is NOT however. We DID torture Moslems. We DID beat some to death. You saying it DEPENDS on what the definition of torture is seems to imply that we DIDNT do these things. ANY reasonable definition of torture would include things we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Appologies for torture make my skin crawl

[forgethell]

35. Then your skin can calm down.

My issue is the Koran flushing incident that turns out to be unsubstantiated at best, and was the cause of 17 lives being lost. I do not consider this to be torture, and if the Muslims do, well they need to get over it.

Other allegations, for instance the Lynddie England incidents, are another matter, entirely. But I see no need to confuse one issue with another.

[wuushew]

39. Don't be too quick to blame Newsweek

The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff says a report from Afghanistan suggests that rioting in Jalalabad on May 11 was not necessarily connected to press reports that the Quran might have been desecrated in the presence of Muslim prisoners held in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. ... Air Force General Richard Myers told reporters at the Pentagon May 12 that he has been told that the Jalalabad, Afghanistan, rioting was related more to the ongoing political reconciliation process in Afghanistan than anything else.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/5/14/192652/115


This Quran incident most likely did happen and is documented somewhere. The only thing the U.s. denies is that it does not appear in a specific report mentioned by the source.

[forgethell]

40. I don't believe that

I even mentioned Newsweek. I am blaming the idiot rioters.

[Just Me]

63. Blaming Newsweek,...hmmmm,....

,...is any Democrat, liberal, progressive, Green, independent or other rational and/or informed person still blaming Newsweek?

Fascinating,...

[LynnTheDem]

42. "unsubstantiated at best"??? Not quite. Just how many reports and sworn

testimonies about such incidents do you require before you don't call them "unsubstantiated at best"??? Over how many years???

Or are you under the mistaken impression that Newsweek is the first & only ones to have reported such incidents???

[Bouncy Ball]

48. "...well they need to get over it"

EXACTLY the kind of mindset that gets us into these messes. Thanks for demonstrating it so ably.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

85. "the Lynddie England incidents" ...WTF?

Do you think that Lynddie England came up with the idea of masks, naked human pyramids, or any of the other abuses that went on in that prison?

Who called the shots? Who came up with those tortures? (Psychological, but tortures nonetheless). Have these people been brought to justice? Why not, ForgetHell? More shades of gray?

[ConsAreLiars]

92. Gov't troops shooting was the cause of death, despite what Rove's

agents say. Widespread distaste for the US and its puppet regimes was the basis for the street actions. Trying to put this on one story reported in Newsweek is incredibly naive, at best. There is a whole real world out there that is not as simple as you seem to imagine, as with that utterly simpleminded assertion that the Koran incident "was the cause of 17 lives being lost." That inanity is so obviously false I'm surprised to see it repeated here.

[LynnTheDem]

20. My argument??? IMO there is NO DIFFERENCE between beating someone

to death, dropping 2000 lb bombs on them, or beheading them; WRONG is simply WRONG.

OF COURSE we did in FACT, and IN FACT STILL DO torture Muslims and others all around the world in America's various gulags.

The point of the OP is simple;

Muzzling the US press so they don't REPORT on the bad shit we do IS NOT the answer to fixing US image around the globe.

The answer to that is to STOP DOING THE BAD SHIT.

[maxsolomon]

6. one bad deed does not justify the other

didn't your mom ever tell not to stoop to their level?

our rhetoric says were a beacon of freedom & democracy. just because a given mulsim radical suspected of being al queda DESERVES torture as revenge for 9-11, that doesn't justify it.

who's koran would jesus flush?

[forgethell]

14. Certainly you are correct.

One bad deed does NOT justify another. On the other hand, I don't see this "desecration" of the Koran as any more "wrong" than, say, burning the American flag. Something that, insofar as I am aware, has happened with regularity over the last 40-50 years with NO deaths attributed to riots by people protesting the act. I am open to correction on this point with proper documentation (a link will do)

:)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrunkenMaster]

32. at first I thought you were referring to OUR raping of prisoners

at Abu Ghraib...but I'm not sure if you have read enough to know that it has been confirmed BY US REPORTS (including the Taguba report) that we have raped Muslim men and women as part of the interrogation process. Seymour Hersch as written and spoken extensively about this.

Before attending to the mote in thy neighbor's eye, look to the beam in thine own.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Who are you paraphrasing, Hannity, O'Reilly, or Limbaugh?

"It is the Muslims, themselves, who are desecrating the Koran by not protesting these gross abuses of their peaceful religion by their co-religionists." - Nice frame, but we are smarter than this. The topic is: "The answer is for the United States to stop torturing Muslims."

If in fact you support our current foreign policy, I suggest you get to a military recruiter today. My cousin is on his second tour, and would like supporters of this forgein policy to get their hands dirty for a change. Will you go take his place? He's asking...

[forgethell]

44. Don't think so. I'm

57 years old. They wouldn't take me. Besides, I didn't say that I supported the Bush policy. In fact, I believe in one post on this thread I specifically stated that I did not. If it was another thread, let me state it now.

Still, even if one of those fellows that you mentioned said it, and I wouldn't know, that doesn't make it wrong. Only contrary facts would make it wrong. They, or rather some, Muslims are desecrating the Koran. I happen to own one (from www.freekoran.com in case you would like one too). If I used it as toilet paper, or even to clean a pig's ass, it wouldn't desecrate it as much as the violence being committed in its name. No frame, just fact.

[Swamp Rat]

52. Not very convincing.

"They, or rather some, Muslims are desecrating the Koran." - That is not what this thread is about.

"it takes a really vivid imagination to equate "desecrating" the Koran with torture, like, oh, holding helpless and innocent civilian hostages captive for weeks on end, then beheading them by sawing through their necks with a dull knife." -Straw man fallacy.

"No frame, just fact." - Just saying that does not make it so. You ARE re-framing the debate and hijacking this thread. Do you want this to turn into a flame fest so the thread will be locked? With the not-so-subtle anti-Muslim rhetoric I'm reading, I am led to believe this.

[LynnTheDem]

57. Had the same thought myself, Swamp R.

That or a certain poster is unaware of the point of the OP;

Muzzling the Press from reporting the bad shit we do won't help.

We have to STOP DOING THE BAD SHIT.

And from there we get to certain people blaming the victims for what we've done (and do). The anti-Muslim rhetoric does ring through loud and clear.

[forgethell]

61. I have nothing against Muslims

I've known several, and have a few neighbors that are Muslims (I live in a university town). I do have something against some people who also happen to be muslim, but that's another issue. Sorry if you think I want a flame-fest. I do not. I just can't believe the silliness of some of the statements I read equating , well you know my argument, I believe. Flame away, if you must, I've got a pretty thick hide and I promise not to alert.

[Swamp Rat]

71. I have "black friends" too.

A classic! :D Having Muslim neighbors has nothing to do with the topic nor does it excuse hijacking a thread. If you did not intend to start a flame fest, why bring up the Al-Qur'an? ... this is a rhetorical question.

Let's get back to talking about what happened to Newsweek, and the torturing of Muslims by American military/CIA et al. That is what this thread is about. If you continue with the aforementioned distraction, you will have verified that your intent IS to hijack and start a flame fest.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. How do you know they're not protesting?

And do you really think our media would show their protests?

[forgethell]

69. Well, I haven't

seen anything on the net either. Not even here at DU.

[LynnTheDem]

81. Really?

A few news article ledes:

Region's Muslims express outrage at recent beheadings

US Muslims Condemn Beheadings

Muslim leaders denounce violence

Muslim leaders condemn violence

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Religious leaders condemn Iraq church bombings

Muslim leaders condemn blast

Sri Lankan Muslims protest violent attacks

Afghan clerics back Koran protests, shun violence

Muslim Leaders make peace plea

NH Muslims condemn attacks

Arab View: US Should Stop Wars and Give Peace a Chance

UK Muslims condemn 'lunatic fringe'

Muslims March in Phoenix

Muslims March Against Terror - DC May 14th, 2005

Islam Denounces Terrorism

Saudi scholars condemn violence

[PsychoDad]

91. Use Google

Try

"Muslims denounce terrorism"

[PsychoDad]

89. We do protest it.

And have from day one.

See: http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/CAIR%20condemns%20murder%20of%20American%20in%20Iraq.htm

See also:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/60minutes.htm
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm
http://www.mediamonitors.net/riadabdelkarim3.html
http://hananiacreators.blogspot.com/2005/01/do-muslims-denounce-terrorism-yes-they.html
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/CAIR%20condemns%20murder%20of%20Margaret%20Hassan.htm
http://www.uua.org/news/91101/mottomohagan.html
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/Muslim%20CEO's%20fight%20terrorism%20USA%20Today%20article.htm
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/pr_Imams%20Against%20Hostage-Takers.htm
http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?age=articleView&id=169&theType=AA
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/CAIR-DFW%20letter%20to%20editor%20Taba%20killings%20condemned.htm
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/CAIR%20Calls%20for%20Release%20of%20All%20Hostages%20in%20Iraq.htm
http://www.cairdfw.org/pr/CAIR%20CONDEMNS%20SCHOOL%20KILLINGS%20IN%20RUSSIA.htm
http://www.uua.org/news/91101/mottomohagan.html
http://bmcs.gotadsl.co.uk/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3
http://www.divineislam.co.uk/DivineIslam/Articles/Terrorism/terrorism1.shtml
http://www.muslimsforjesus.org/Current%20Affairs/Prominent%20American%20Muslims%20denounce%20terror%20committed%20in%20the%20name%20of%20Islam%20on%2060%20Minutes.htm
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.avgi.gr/avgi/wwwboard/messages/967.html

There are more articles if you require them.

The american media finds little newsworthy in reporting this, and so people such as yourself never hear about it.

[forgethell]

98. Thank you n/t

[forgethell]

100. On further thought,

if you are a Muslim, are you ready to say right now that the rioters were desecrating the Koran? Are you willing to say that there is no justification whatever for the slaughter of innocent civilians, Iraqi and Israeli, by suicide bombers? You, personally, I mean. I don't expect you to speak for all Muslims.

[IrateCitizen]

103. Tom Friedman, is that you????

Or did you simply lift that premise from The Mustache's column yesterday?

[dogday]

3. And take responsibility for our actions

Just like our parents taught us, when we do wrong admit it and apologize for it....

[bullimiami]

5. bushco is operating a crusade.

it is fueled by hate and fear.

they need scapegoats. for now it is the muslim "extremists"

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Obviously

But they don't care about that. The Newsweek ordeal is just a bunch of crap.

[Coexist]

12. well... duh!

[JNelson6563]

19. Or, in other words: End the Crusade

Just sayin'

[katinmn]

27. Angering 1.48 billion Muslims is not keeping America safe

neither is refusing to protect our borders.

[rndmprsn]

75. sometimes you have to state the obvious...

for ppl to understand...thanks for this and nominated

[Swamp Rat]

79. YES! Nominated for stating the obvious!

The United States MUST stop torturing Muslims. That is NOT what this country is supposed to stand for, regardless of what other countries/people do.

:kick:

The United States MUST stop torturing Muslims!

[sweetheart]

87. The answer is for the United States to not torture... (period)

The political USA has gone too far in his criminality, and has earned
the right of blood revenge... that, if the criminals are deposed today..
a long period of rightful revenge will ensue.. and when that dies down,
if the karma's have not been further agrivated, perhaps there will be
a just peace.

THe usa now deserves whatever comes... torture becons a response.

Gosh what a sorry state of affairs when criminal GOP persons go too far.

[Darranar]

88. It is a wise course of action, along with ceasing aggression...

and imperialism.

[Just Me]

102. STOP THE TORTURE!!! STOP THE TORTURE!!!

STOP IT!!!

[Karenina]

106. And while you're at it

STOP

Kicking in doors
Looting
Shooting anything that moves
Destroying Grandma's china
Terrorizing the babies
Dragging teenies out of their homes never to be seen again
Raping
Poisoning the water and land
Making it "safe" for *corp interests to pillage resources
Detaining innocents
Flattening cities into rubble
Herding residents into barb-wired camps
Destroying mosques
LYING about what you're doing

And GENERALLY DISRESPECTING EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING.

This shit WILL return to your shores...

[Just Me]

105. .

:kick: